On November 16 2012 08:49 nath wrote: Shared by one of my friends on FB:
In case anyone believes that American reporting about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is unbiased and accurate, let me share a personal story that I have rarely spoken about in public, but at long last needs to be said. When I graduated college, I worked as a reporter on Wall Street. While working as a journalist for Knight-Ridder, one of the biggest media companies in the US, I covered many international stories, including interviewing Shimon Peres, Benazir Bhutto and other prominent leaders. I was considered a rising star and was soon up for a promotion to join the Washington DC bureau.
I was excited to move from New York to DC and after a week long "trial period" where I worked full time in DC office, was told I had the job. And then, at the last minute, I was called into the office of the DC Bureau Chief. He told me that he had decided not to hire me after all. I was shocked and asked why. The Bureau Chief told me bluntly to my face that he felt that I as a Muslim could not "fairly" cover Israel (i.e, present Israel always in a positive light). I was stunned. Was he actually telling me I lost the job because of my religion? And because I wouldn't promote a specifically pro-Israel agenda? This had to be a joke. There was another reporter in the room with the Bureau Chief who was Jewish. I asked the chief if he felt the other reporter would be unbiased, considering his religion. The chief turned red in the face with anger and told me not take the conversation there. Muslims were obviously biased about Palestine, but suggesting a Jew would be biased toward Israel was anti-Semitic. I walked out.
When I reported this exchange to Human Affairs at Knight Ridder, they panicked. They realized that I was sitting on major lawsuit against them for discrimination. They met me and apologized, begging me not to sue. I could have the DC job if I wanted. But I knew that now I had enemies there. I had embarrassed the Bureau Chief by reporting him and working in DC would be like navigating a lion's den. So I politely declined and resigned. I went on to Cornell Law School to learn how to protect myself and others from this kind of behavior. I later left the law to become a Hollywood filmmaker, and have experienced similar stories inside the film industry, where being pro-Palestinian is not exactly a major selling point. And yet I persist because I believe that truth can only be known by sharing all sides, not just one side of a narrative.
I have not told this story to many people, but in light of how the Western media is reporting (or failing to report) on what is happening in Gaza, I felt it my duty to share my own experience. When it comes to Israel and Palestine, the mainstream media has an agenda to tell only side of the story.
Well, is it actually him writing that, or just some viral text written by someone else?
yes, its him writing that rofl...it was shared by a friend from that guy's original post.....
Which you did not mention at first mate, so i don't really get your "rofl". Guess it's funny now when people want to doublecheck before they form an opinion. Ôo
if you read it you would see that its clearly from first person. + Show Spoiler +
only assumption would be that i wouldnt take a first person account of person x's experiences written by person y seriously. that is just common sense.
Also just for the record, I am posting this merely for to show this point of view, has nothing to do with my personal tendencies.
You must have a lot of friends from Nigeria that are going to pay you back some money you lent them real soon.
Fwiw I get most of my coverage on this from the BBC. It and the reputable US news outlets are telling the same story.
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
Wow slightly surprised to see this on TL, happy to see this is recognized as an issue Palestine is getting completely screwed over. Why? because Israel's government came straight from hell... At U.N there was cheering and whistling when Palestine applied for full recognition...only Israel i.e. the bastards who are in gov and U.S who is essentially Israel's bitch stopped Palestine from achieving their goal. 80% of Palestinians and 80% of Israelis agree that there should be two states...not that hard to put two and two together. Stop being assholes...the savage is the one who attacks mercilessly because he can, not jihad
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
Its not practical for both sides to stop murdering everybody? I would say that's pretty practical.
I assume that when you use words like 'unfortunate reality' and 'practical' you mean that there must be some way to resolve this conflict, all the while allowing both sides to have their bloodthirsty fill of disgusting racist acts of violence, yes?
Just because brutality, hatred and fear are a way of life, it doesn't mean that can't change. If you don't aim high, you will never achieve anything.
A part of me thinks that some people actively want war. You make it sound like you want a solution, but any solution you propose (given the pessimistic language you use) would merely be temporary, a small stopgap until the next war begins.
I say fuck all of that. War sucks. If you think there should continue to be war, you suck too.
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
Its not practical for both sides to stop murdering everybody? I would say that's pretty practical.
I assume that when you use words like 'unfortunate reality' and 'practical' you mean that there must be some way to resolve this conflict, all the while allowing both sides to have their bloodthirsty fill of disgusting racist acts of violence, yes?
Oh wow, you mean people can just stop killing each other? How did everyone in the conflict not think of this? But it's all good, now that you've made this discovery, the issue is resolved right.
Sorry, just because I don't say silly things like "every should just be friends" doesn't mean I want war. I don't know what kind of mental gymnastics you did to get to this conclusion.
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
Its not practical for both sides to stop murdering everybody? I would say that's pretty practical.
I assume that when you use words like 'unfortunate reality' and 'practical' you mean that there must be some way to resolve this conflict, all the while allowing both sides to have their bloodthirsty fill of disgusting racist acts of violence, yes?
Oh wow, you mean people can just stop killing each other? How did everyone in the conflict not think of this? But it's all good, now that you've made this discovery, the issue is resolved right.
You know what i usually try and get out of personal conflict on the internet (see earlier in the thread) but its people like you who give permission for this shit to exist. Yeah everybody, lets be realistic. Lets be practical. What we should do is absolutely nothing. That way we can watch as everybody kills each other. One day in the future society will wish that some political leader somewhere important would have said enough is enough.
Its not you, its your attitude that's the problem, and its an attitude that crops up everywhere you look.
Someone cries "I have proof that politicians are corrupt, lets do something about it!" and you say "Of course politicians are corrupt, we all know that, let them get on with it."
Someone says "Businesses are deliberately killing children in Africa testing out dangerous chemicals on them!" You say "They sure are! Those crazy businesses."
Fuck that, its a shitty attitude and as long as it exists the whole fucking planet will suffer because of it.
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
Its not practical for both sides to stop murdering everybody? I would say that's pretty practical.
I assume that when you use words like 'unfortunate reality' and 'practical' you mean that there must be some way to resolve this conflict, all the while allowing both sides to have their bloodthirsty fill of disgusting racist acts of violence, yes?
Oh wow, you mean people can just stop killing each other? How did everyone in the conflict not think of this? But it's all good, now that you've made this discovery, the issue is resolved right.
You know what i usually try and get out of personal conflict on the internet (see earlier in the thread) but its people like you who give permission for this shit to exist. Yeah everybody, lets be realistic. Lets be practical. What we should do is absolutely nothing. That way we can watch as everybody kills each other. One day in the future society will wish that some political leader somewhere important would have said enough is enough.
Its not you, its your attitude that's the problem, and its an attitude that crops up everywhere you look.
Someone cries "I have proof that politicians are corrupt, lets do something about it!" and you say "Of course politicians are corrupt, we all know that, let them get on with it."
Someone says "Businesses are deliberately killing children in Africa testing out dangerous chemicals on them!" You say "They sure are! Those crazy businesses."
Fuck that, its a shitty attitude and as long as it exists the whole fucking planet will suffer because of it.
How do you plan on getting them to stop killing each other exactly? His point was that it is really easy to say this is wrong. The problem is devising a solution that is practical to implement. It's like when a bunch of nations outlawed war about a century ago. You can't tell both sides to quit murdering innocents because there is absolutely no means to enforce such an action.
On November 16 2012 09:17 anycolourfloyd wrote: i don't really see how the israel-palestine situation can ever really end. pretty depressing.
It will end with with a genocide. And guess who has the bigger bat.
what if genocide has happened and is happening right now with the israeli settlement policy ? and no one can stop it, because you cant accuse jews of genocide?
well solutions are pretty obvious. Either one of them kills the other one or theres an agreement on a two-state solution
On November 16 2012 09:17 anycolourfloyd wrote: i don't really see how the israel-palestine situation can ever really end. pretty depressing.
It will end with with a genocide. And guess who has the bigger bat.
what if genocide has happened and is happening right now with the israeli settlement policy ? and no one can stop it, because you cant accuse jews of genocide?
well solutions are pretty obvious. Either one of them kills the other one or theres an agreement on a two-state solution
What we've seen so far doesn't even compare to whats coming in the future.' Permanent two state solution will never be feasible between these two. The middle east pot has been boiling for quite some time and we're slowly getting to a point where the steam is trying to pop the lid off.
I lived through all of this once. Actually twice. And I bet all medias transfer news pretty shitty. Israelians are men with ni land, they got it from UK after ww2 and it belongs to Palestinians. Now they are bombing kids and civilians because someone planned to attack their southern part of teritory? I mean, how retarded u must be to blame "islamic terrorists " for this? And ofc, ISrael got support from Usa and UK, how surprising. Fuck this world, it insults human intelligence. Like in Syria, Usa is trying to install democracy everywhere where resources are and by demicratic goverment, they mean their hand in there to do what they need to do...
If they are battling versus islam terror, why they supported Albanian gypsies in Kosovo instead of us? Its always their interest, like here, and I m sick of it.
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
Its not practical for both sides to stop murdering everybody? I would say that's pretty practical.
I assume that when you use words like 'unfortunate reality' and 'practical' you mean that there must be some way to resolve this conflict, all the while allowing both sides to have their bloodthirsty fill of disgusting racist acts of violence, yes?
Oh wow, you mean people can just stop killing each other? How did everyone in the conflict not think of this? But it's all good, now that you've made this discovery, the issue is resolved right.
You know what i usually try and get out of personal conflict on the internet (see earlier in the thread) but its people like you who give permission for this shit to exist. Yeah everybody, lets be realistic. Lets be practical. What we should do is absolutely nothing. That way we can watch as everybody kills each other. One day in the future society will wish that some political leader somewhere important would have said enough is enough.
Its not you, its your attitude that's the problem, and its an attitude that crops up everywhere you look.
Someone cries "I have proof that politicians are corrupt, lets do something about it!" and you say "Of course politicians are corrupt, we all know that, let them get on with it."
Someone says "Businesses are deliberately killing children in Africa testing out dangerous chemicals on them!" You say "They sure are! Those crazy businesses."
Fuck that, its a shitty attitude and as long as it exists the whole fucking planet will suffer because of it.
How do you plan on getting them to stop killing each other exactly? His point was that it is really easy to say this is wrong. The problem is devising a solution that is practical to implement. It's like when a bunch of nations outlawed war about a century ago. You can't tell both sides to quit murdering innocents because there is absolutely no means to enforce such an action.
I understand his point, i guess i was taking it out on him that i think that change needs to come from the people involved. Proposing solutions will never work, because the underlying attitude is that war is OK .The people of Israel and Hamas want this war, and innocents will die because of it. Martin Luthor King and Ghandi are the two people who always crop up when talking about major change, and they really were the role models for how this change comes about. The main thing i had a problem with is the use of the phrase 'unfortunate reality'. Martin Luthor King could have accepted the unfortunate reality that black people were mistreated, but he didn't.
When i think about that i think about my grandparents. They are lovely, caring kind people, but they racist as all hell. Everyone knows people like that from the older generations because the attitude was everywhere. The scale of the problem is the same in Israel, but the consequences are even more extreme and violent.
But at some point, that attitude changed, and racism is no longer the dominant view. This is what needs to happen. The attitude needs to change. Some elegant political solution just would not last, as long as the countries are producing powerful, intelligent racists.
On November 16 2012 11:18 Cricketer12 wrote: Wow slightly surprised to see this on TL, happy to see this is recognized as an issue Palestine is getting completely screwed over. Why? because Israel's government came straight from hell... At U.N there was cheering and whistling when Palestine applied for full recognition...only Israel i.e. the bastards who are in gov and U.S who is essentially Israel's bitch stopped Palestine from achieving their goal. 80% of Palestinians and 80% of Israelis agree that there should be two states...not that hard to put two and two together. Stop being assholes...the savage is the one who attacks mercilessly because he can, not jihad
Damn, I can't possibly imagine why Israel would hold any sort of grudge against Palestine. Oh wait, they been constantly shooting fucking rockets at them for the past 20 years. Palestine is not an innocent little victim in this situation. Both sides are at fault.
On November 16 2012 09:54 Schvitzer wrote: I just dont understand how anyone can blame Israel and not look biased...
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
Its not practical for both sides to stop murdering everybody? I would say that's pretty practical.
I assume that when you use words like 'unfortunate reality' and 'practical' you mean that there must be some way to resolve this conflict, all the while allowing both sides to have their bloodthirsty fill of disgusting racist acts of violence, yes?
Oh wow, you mean people can just stop killing each other? How did everyone in the conflict not think of this? But it's all good, now that you've made this discovery, the issue is resolved right.
You know what i usually try and get out of personal conflict on the internet (see earlier in the thread) but its people like you who give permission for this shit to exist. Yeah everybody, lets be realistic. Lets be practical. What we should do is absolutely nothing. That way we can watch as everybody kills each other. One day in the future society will wish that some political leader somewhere important would have said enough is enough.
Its not you, its your attitude that's the problem, and its an attitude that crops up everywhere you look.
Someone cries "I have proof that politicians are corrupt, lets do something about it!" and you say "Of course politicians are corrupt, we all know that, let them get on with it."
Someone says "Businesses are deliberately killing children in Africa testing out dangerous chemicals on them!" You say "They sure are! Those crazy businesses."
Fuck that, its a shitty attitude and as long as it exists the whole fucking planet will suffer because of it.
How do you plan on getting them to stop killing each other exactly? His point was that it is really easy to say this is wrong. The problem is devising a solution that is practical to implement. It's like when a bunch of nations outlawed war about a century ago. You can't tell both sides to quit murdering innocents because there is absolutely no means to enforce such an action.
I understand his point, i guess i was taking it out on him that i think that change needs to come from the people involved. Proposing solutions will never work, because the underlying attitude is that war is OK .The people of Israel and Hamas want this war, and innocents will die because of it. Martin Luthor King and Ghandi are the two people who always crop up when talking about major change, and they really were the role models for how this change comes about. The main thing i had a problem with is the use of the phrase 'unfortunate reality'. Martin Luthor King could have accepted the unfortunate reality that black people were mistreated, but he didn't.
When i think about that i think about my grandparents. They are lovely, caring kind people, but they racist as all hell. Everyone knows people like that from the older generations because the attitude was everywhere. The scale of the problem is the same in Israel, but the consequences are even more extreme and violent.
But at some point, that attitude changed, and racism is no longer the dominant view. This is what needs to happen. The attitude needs to change. Some elegant political solution just would not last, as long as the countries are producing powerful, intelligent racists.
"Proposing solutions will never work."
Yup, let's sit on our ass talking about how nice it would be if a millennium old hatred dissipated overnight and everyone lived happily ever after.
Just read through the thread, there are a lot of interesting opinions from both sides ;-)
It's easy to side with Israel for those living in western countries, because they are closest to our western culture. It's really worth it though to see how you would react if you would be in the situation of a Palestinian. Then you will see things are not that black & white and it's not easy to say who is right and who is wrong (in fact I think neither side is, but just get to your opinion by really looking at it from both sides).
BTW, just noticed your from the US, where the media seems really quite biased towards Israel, so you will need to look a bit further to see both sides of the story
Fairness is never the determining factor, that's the unfortunate reality. The Palestinians had their chance for a fair peace at a time when their position looked strong, and they rejected it because they gambled on being able to get everything. They lost that gamble and are facing the consequences.
Its a shame that 'unfortunate reality' is so dominating. Its a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is controlled by humans. Its also a shame that the 'unfortunate reality' is what holds our species back from becoming a more compassionate, just, and empathic species.
If only we could do something to change it....
Oh wait...
Another unfortunate reality is that there are idiots who think every issue has a magical solution and spews pointless retoric instead of looking for practical solutions.
Its not practical for both sides to stop murdering everybody? I would say that's pretty practical.
I assume that when you use words like 'unfortunate reality' and 'practical' you mean that there must be some way to resolve this conflict, all the while allowing both sides to have their bloodthirsty fill of disgusting racist acts of violence, yes?
Oh wow, you mean people can just stop killing each other? How did everyone in the conflict not think of this? But it's all good, now that you've made this discovery, the issue is resolved right.
You know what i usually try and get out of personal conflict on the internet (see earlier in the thread) but its people like you who give permission for this shit to exist. Yeah everybody, lets be realistic. Lets be practical. What we should do is absolutely nothing. That way we can watch as everybody kills each other. One day in the future society will wish that some political leader somewhere important would have said enough is enough.
Its not you, its your attitude that's the problem, and its an attitude that crops up everywhere you look.
Someone cries "I have proof that politicians are corrupt, lets do something about it!" and you say "Of course politicians are corrupt, we all know that, let them get on with it."
Someone says "Businesses are deliberately killing children in Africa testing out dangerous chemicals on them!" You say "They sure are! Those crazy businesses."
Fuck that, its a shitty attitude and as long as it exists the whole fucking planet will suffer because of it.
How do you plan on getting them to stop killing each other exactly? His point was that it is really easy to say this is wrong. The problem is devising a solution that is practical to implement. It's like when a bunch of nations outlawed war about a century ago. You can't tell both sides to quit murdering innocents because there is absolutely no means to enforce such an action.
I understand his point, i guess i was taking it out on him that i think that change needs to come from the people involved. Proposing solutions will never work, because the underlying attitude is that war is OK .The people of Israel and Hamas want this war, and innocents will die because of it. Martin Luthor King and Ghandi are the two people who always crop up when talking about major change, and they really were the role models for how this change comes about. The main thing i had a problem with is the use of the phrase 'unfortunate reality'. Martin Luthor King could have accepted the unfortunate reality that black people were mistreated, but he didn't.
When i think about that i think about my grandparents. They are lovely, caring kind people, but they racist as all hell. Everyone knows people like that from the older generations because the attitude was everywhere. The scale of the problem is the same in Israel, but the consequences are even more extreme and violent.
But at some point, that attitude changed, and racism is no longer the dominant view. This is what needs to happen. The attitude needs to change. Some elegant political solution just would not last, as long as the countries are producing powerful, intelligent racists.
"Proposing solutions will never work."
Yup, let's sit on our ass talking about how nice it would be if a millennium old hatred dissipated overnight and everyone lived happily ever after.
Give me a break.
I will give you a break. Because i'm going to bed.
One last thing, look at the example i just gave, and think about the lack of ass sitting involved.
EPT
