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On February 27 2006 21:15 TheBlackJack wrote:
none?
An analogy:
A employer arrives on the jobsite and is greeted by federal agents. The press is nearby as well, so any comments will go on the record. The federal agents inform the employer that a worker is being charged with a felony, and present some circumstantial evidence in defense of this accusation.
If the employer announces publicly with 100% certainty that his employee is innocent, despite having no knowledge of what took place and only briefly glancing at the evidence, then this will look extremely suspicious to the public. A competent employee that was truly ignorant of the matter would have immediately stated "I have no knowledge of the proceedings at this point in time, a thorough investigation will be carried out, and the guilty parties prosecuted."
However, let us assume, as in the case of oG), that selling out the employee is not a desirable outcome. Perhaps the employee will squeal and inform the press that the employer was in fact an accomplice and well aware of the criminal activity. So as a result, the employer has only 1 option to save the reputation of his firm and mitigate the situation: hire a lawyer and claim that the evidence/charges are 100% false.
After such a performance, supporting his employee 100%, the evidence is proven to be irrefutable, then the employer will only have 1 option: go back on his word and plead ignorance, perhaps in an attempt to partially salvage the shattered reputation of his firm. To the viewers at home, the press, and the prosecution, the employer (in this analogy, the management of oG) is a spineless shank who will sell out his confidant the employee in order to save whatever fleeting vestige of a reputable firm that remains.
Seriously, oG) management is pathetic.
On a sidenote, I do have respect for you BlackJack, as a talented American representative gamer.
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I think you're giving Dev way too much credit lolol
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To summarize my analogy and put it into practical terms:
oG) management was confronted publicly with an accusation (supported by evidence) that niSeung played under Jang's account. The management's initial strategy is to totally deny the cheating, hoping that the evidence is too weak to adequately support the accusation. That way, Sea. AND oG)'s reputations are spared. Once the evidence proves too strong to ignore, oG) has only one option (of course telling the truth isn't one of them!), and thats to sell out Sea. and plead ignorance. This would have been the initial strategy if oG) management was sharper mentally, had more time to think the matter through, and/or hadn't underestimated the power of the evidence. Ultimately, this proved to be the worst decision because now oG) is caught in multiple lies and were even willing to sell out the same squad that was responsible for their success in the first place!
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On February 27 2006 21:36 TheBlackJack wrote:
I think you're giving Dev way too much credit lolol
Well Freezer gave a similar defense (he talked with Jang afterward about the outcome of the games).
This is suspicious as well, considering an average battle.net conversation consists of "ok", "rofl", "-,,-", "--;", etc. etc. Coupled with the language barrier, it seems very odd that Freezer could authenticate Jang from a brief battle.net conversation. With the exception of users like Ragnar (Entropy), Manifesto, etc the text would be quite generic. But the fact that he uses this as a defense leads me to believe that he was scrambling for an initial defense in order to protect niSeung. Not to mention that niSeung would intentionally keep the conversation terse in order to avoid implicating himself if in fact Freezer did not know.
So in summary, Freezer could not have gained any insight from the battle.net conversation with niSeung that would have absolutely confirmed that it was Jang. So rather, he used the instance as a transparent alibi.
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That only explains the course of action after they were caught account sharing. It doesn't explain WHY ON EARTH oG) management would possibly go along with account sharing! That's the part you have to explain, and the part you can't explain, because they didn't go along with it and they were ignorant to it. At least that's my unbiased belief.
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On February 27 2006 21:50 TheBlackJack wrote:
That only explains the course of action after they were caught account sharing. It doesn't explain WHY ON EARTH oG) management would possibly go along with account sharing! That's the part you have to explain, and the part you can't explain, because they didn't go along with it and they were ignorant to it. At least that's my unbiased belief.
1) You said oG)Jy was a potential substitute. oG)Jy is a Zerg user, and ZvZ is Geoff's best matchup.I understand that oG)Jy would still be the favorite, but why take the risk (when money is on the line). Not to mention that Z v Z is arguably the most unpredictable and luck-based matchup in Broodwar. It would be safer (from the standpoint of winning the match) to substitute Jang with a Terran user. TvZ is the most imbalanced matchup in Broodwar on most pro-maps (based on ongamenet and msl statistics at least). Therefore niSeung was far more likely to win, at least in theory.
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I have the Solution for SCCL ^^ :
A match between Play.it vs eSa. , winner goes vs ToT) instead of oG) and then all keep going good^^
im dreaming a lot^^
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... and BlackJack lets face it, your management has no ethos whatsoever.
Crayon confirmed the suspicion that the Sea. users were recruited for the sole purpose of winning the SCCL so that both teams could split the prize money pot. Users like ZoXXeR, Freezer, etc. would argue that oG) provided no monetary incentive for Sea. to merge other than the camraderie and practice ( LOL ). Your managers lie. They disrespect not only their opponents but the entire community of spectators and fans as well. So I think it is safe to say that they would not object to the account sharing solely for reasons of moral conscience! As with any illegal activity, there is always a probability (however small) that you will be caught, so like most cheaters, they were simply willing to accept the risks.
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okay you can have the last word  Readers can decide from here
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BlackJack, will you attend WCG this year?
Nero and I will be out of the way, since he retired and might not compete this year, and I'm moving back to Cali.
You'd have a good shot.
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On February 27 2006 21:12 NubainMuscle wrote:
If Dev was not online during the clanwar, then on what grounds can he claim he was 100% sure it was the real oG)Jang?
He was online, he was in the channel when CW started
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On February 27 2006 11:56 MaGic~PhiL wrote:
oG) should be banned for this season and for the next..
such things happening two times is ridicoulous and pathetic at the same time...
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Norway28518 Posts
I gotta say I agree completely with blackjack on pretty much everything
there doesn't have to be some grand conspiracy or whatever. (but they should still be banned of course. :-) )
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On February 27 2006 22:17 NubainMuscle wrote:
... and BlackJack lets face it, your management has no ethos whatsoever.
Crayon confirmed the suspicion that the Sea. users were recruited for the sole purpose of winning the SCCL so that both teams could split the prize money pot. Users like ZoXXeR, Freezer, etc. would argue that oG) provided no monetary incentive for Sea. to merge other than the camraderie and practice ( LOL ). Your managers lie. They disrespect not only their opponents but the entire community of spectators and fans as well. So I think it is safe to say that they would not object to the account sharing solely for reasons of moral conscience! As with any illegal activity, there is always a probability (however small) that you will be caught, so like most cheaters, they were simply willing to accept the risks.
That is wrong. There are no money whatsoever involved. Although, feels like no one can understand that, and without any proof or anything keep on guessing, or simply do not belive us.
I don't know what to say in this mess... I just feel vey disappointed with Jang. Last time we got in trouble it was because he gave his passowrd to another player and let him play. This time it is because Jang gave out his password to another player (it's even his brother, if I do not mistake myself) who could play in a clan war.
Still, it's oGaming as a whole who gets attacked and talked trash about. As for people who are saying the oGaming management sucks since it's so big nd still can't handle a cw, or whatever - the oGaming management is big, yes. But everyone doesn't do the same thing, in our clan. I don't think a lot of people from the management was online when the CW started. I was not, for sure.
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Belgium9942 Posts
BlackJack is completely right.
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who has the time and interest to play a little agent and try to find a grand conspiracy behind something like this..? og is not pathetic, the people trashing it are, go to school or something..
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I just couldn't believe it happend twice.
Yea its true, although we were all hurt by it, I believe the person that was hurt the most is oG)Freezer, his statment can be found http://www.ogaming.org/zboard.php?id=oGaming&no=26
My Apologies to madian and everyone in tot).
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On February 27 2006 18:59 TheBlackJack wrote:
Hey, the non-koreans in oG didn't know about this account sharing. I don't care if anyone does it to me, but please stop calling my teammates newbs and cheaters when they are on bnet. They had nothing to do with this. There's no need to go on a witch hunt every time you see an oG) tag.
On February 27 2006 19:20 IcedEarth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2006 11:14 Twisted wrote:
There we have it. roMAD, StarofNC and MidiaN all are 100% sure it's niSeung ; ).
Zia you should leave oG. Well I DO know this much: I'm not going to feel any guilt whatsoever because a Korean fucked up. That's his problem, not mine. If the whole community wants to bash oG for an individual's mistake, so be it. I didn't do anything wrong. Neither did Freezer. I'm still a little confused and rather uneasy on the situation though. It does bother me knowing that every single time I log on euro, I get relentlessly verbally abused just because I carry a tag. I'm not sure what I'm going to do yet.
Seems like you both starting to understand more of iG's long lasting situation
Don't look for a way out Zia, think of the reasons you joined oG rather ;p
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Hrrm, so I guess that clears things up. I completely agree that FreeZer deserves the blame, it was his responsiblity to ensure that this kind of thing wouldn't happen, again. I also think though that any oG) members who have been denying this (like Dev was), should apologize (like Dev did). They made assumptions that were clearly wrong and since they chose to back up oG)Jang, they should also be willing to take responsiblity for making the wrong decision. I'm assuming that despite the fact that oG)FreeZer has cleared it up, oG) is going to lose the CW by default since "Jang's" game ended up being the difference in a would-be 3-2 oG) win.
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If this story is true, which i personnally believe, it just shows that when you're the manager of a team, you should know everyone in your team to trust them.
I also understand the oG staff and their will to recruit competitive players for this tournament. I mean, everyone did it, except oG did it with koreans good players.
Now, oG staff should use that as an experience. Don't recrtuit players on the only matter of the skill, take the manner and the teamspirit in consideration too.
It is easay to shoot someone when he is down, so i don't think it is intereseting to keep flaming oG, let their staff and the SCCL staff do their job.
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EPT
