On September 02 2012 13:25 Tevinhead wrote: Dendi is a player that likes to make stuff happen. He isn't afraid to do things that others would be. And when it pays off he makes really amazing plays, when it doesn't, well not as much notice is taken. However Dendi does deserve the hype in my opinion. His reaction times and consistency just speak of someone with a lot of natural talent. This is a player who was accused by the community in DOTA 1 for using macros and scripts because apparently no one can invoke with such speed and accuracy. Dendi responded by posting a video of himself in wtf mode with invoker and proceeding to cast every single spell in very quick succession whilst you can see his fingers. His fingers looked like that of a BW pro.
Puppey the hivemind, very very intelligent player, with deep game understanding.
Light Of Heaven the ever so consistent off-laner.
XBOCT the carry that seems to start carrying 15 minutes before other team's carry does.
Ars-art the secret carry, always linking with his team perfectly, creating kills and saving carries.
All of these players are amazing in their own right. But it's Dendi with that mechanical skill to pull off any idea he thinks of. The reaction time to dodge that which most couldn't and the balls to always try the improbable. And it's not just his skills, he's a funny guy, always likes to be a joker, always trolling. He's an entertainer in and out of the game as well as a very nice and mannered guy. Sort of like a cross between MC and White-Ra. Add all of this entertainment value and skill, then add the fact that he's in the most successful Dota 2 team, by far. And you have clear reasons for fanboyism.
OPA DENDI <3
Except if you compare Dendi's mid lane play to his counterparts on other teams, it's been arguably much less exceptional than Puppey or LoH.
The only reason it shines in the fans' eyes is because the 2nd position/mid lane role gets more attention, because it gets lots of kills.
Puppey/LOH have been carrying Na'vi the entire time. LOH in particular. Since they've made it into WB finals, LOH has been outperforming his team a vast majority of time.
Na'Vi is in my opinion one of the few dota 2 teams, where every single player has equal importance to the teams success. Dendi is the frontman because he's a) playing the ganking role, which is the most fun to watch I guess, and b) of his high risk, high reward playstyle. It can completely change teamfights, and if it doesn't the majority does not care too much. Most people don't appreciate a stellar, solid performance by the support player as much as ganks/kills by the mid/hc player.. It's comparable to Football, where the striker is the most popular person on a team.
It's funny too because LOH on Broodmother is outfarming XBOCT most of the time (who generally plays the hard carry).
On September 02 2012 13:25 Tevinhead wrote: Dendi is a player that likes to make stuff happen. He isn't afraid to do things that others would be. And when it pays off he makes really amazing plays, when it doesn't, well not as much notice is taken. However Dendi does deserve the hype in my opinion. His reaction times and consistency just speak of someone with a lot of natural talent. This is a player who was accused by the community in DOTA 1 for using macros and scripts because apparently no one can invoke with such speed and accuracy. Dendi responded by posting a video of himself in wtf mode with invoker and proceeding to cast every single spell in very quick succession whilst you can see his fingers. His fingers looked like that of a BW pro.
Puppey the hivemind, very very intelligent player, with deep game understanding.
Light Of Heaven the ever so consistent off-laner.
XBOCT the carry that seems to start carrying 15 minutes before other team's carry does.
Ars-art the secret carry, always linking with his team perfectly, creating kills and saving carries.
All of these players are amazing in their own right. But it's Dendi with that mechanical skill to pull off any idea he thinks of. The reaction time to dodge that which most couldn't and the balls to always try the improbable. And it's not just his skills, he's a funny guy, always likes to be a joker, always trolling. He's an entertainer in and out of the game as well as a very nice and mannered guy. Sort of like a cross between MC and White-Ra. Add all of this entertainment value and skill, then add the fact that he's in the most successful Dota 2 team, by far. And you have clear reasons for fanboyism.
OPA DENDI <3
Except if you compare Dendi's mid lane play to his counterparts on other teams, it's been arguably much less exceptional than Puppey or LoH.
The only reason it shines in the fans' eyes is because the 2nd position/mid lane role gets more attention, because it gets lots of kills.
Puppey/LOH have been carrying Na'vi the entire time. LOH in particular. Since they've made it into WB finals, LOH has been outperforming his team a vast majority of time.
Na'Vi is in my opinion one of the few dota 2 teams, where every single player has equal importance to the teams success. Dendi is the frontman because he's a) playing the ganking role, which is the most fun to watch I guess, and b) of his high risk, high reward playstyle. It can completely change teamfights, and if it doesn't the majority does not care too much. Most people don't appreciate a stellar, solid performance by the support player as much as ganks/kills by the mid/hc player.. It's comparable to Football, where the striker is the most popular person on a team.
It's funny too because LOH on Broodmother is outfarming XBOCT most of the time (who generally plays the hard carry).
XBOCT is one of the most active hard carry player you can find in dota. He participates in a lot more teamfights then the normal hc player would. Of course there are way more better hardcarry player than him, but XBOCT isn't as plain bad as you make him. Na'Vi strategies aren't revolving around 4 on 1 and just creating space for your carry to win the game, atleast in this international so far.
On September 02 2012 12:58 Vixeness87 wrote: Guess where there are fans there are antifans? honestly this thread needs to be closed since its just a worthless thread that doesn't actually state anything other than QQ about na'vi being popular (as if in sc2 foreigners don't get more attention than koreans who are equally as good or better)
I agree, this is the anti fan thread. If you look closely, the OP is from Hong Kong, so we can safely assume he is cheering for his local teams. He is also dumbfounded by why we would cheer for a team that isn't from the scene he follows.
Really, Puppey was on Live on Three this week and talked about the matches this weekend, so I decided to check them out. They showed some really good style and Puppey is a great team captain. Even being new to DotA 2, I could tell shutting down the Naga-sleep combo was super impressive. And they have more character than any of the Chinese teams I have watched this weekend.
I don't think you read through my OP (I don't blame you, the post is indeed longer than I intended it to be), but I clearly stated that I didn't initially intend my post to be a rant, and I have probably been watching dota tournaments earlier than you have. Indeed I'm from Hong Kong, so what I say could possibly be biased, but that doesn't imply you could discard everything I say as being irrelevant... And neither am I judging what you say based on where you're from -_-
I'm indeed a little annoyed at Na'vi's popularity, and that's because I have seen many other dota teams who have displayed equal or superior skill. I haven't watched puppey's games, but I'm not denying that puppey is a great team captain. But you are overlooking other games that you may not have access to... You weren't around when the CK-Lina DS-kunkka, radiance-alchemist combos got invented and shut down, but those games show spectacular play as well. I'm not in any way denying that Puppey / Na'vi is a strong team, I'm just saying that there are perhaps better teams out there that you are ignorant to or indifferent of.
btw, the ck-lina combo got diminished due to the the shift to tri-laning, and ds-kunkka combo was no longer used due to it having no real late game pushing potential. Radiance alchemist was hard countered by morphling copying a replicate radiance tank, and AA's blast denying alchemist's ability to regen health. those are interesting plays you should definitely check out if you care.
Just because you say it is not a rant does not make it less of a rant. Its like saying "I don't mean to be rude" and then screaming at them. To be very frank, asking people why are they are fans of something is just dumb. The same goes for relating skill to whether or not people should be a fan of a team is also dumb. I have been a fan of the Boston Red Sox for most of my life. During the majority of that time, they had not won a World Series in 86 years. They were a very bad team.
People do not like teams based on skill. They can respect skill, but that does not mean they have to be fans of that team.
Look... I don't mean to be rude but... that was totally a rant.
All joking aside people like Na'Vi because they're an absolutely strong team with a lot of personality. They play exciting games using unique strategies and force bans on heroes like Pudge. Chinese teams don't seem to have that same personality and if they do it doesn't translate through interviews and same with their playstyles, passive-farm games aren't very exciting. Yes their execution will cause people to notice their ability but they aren't going to wow people and gain a huge fanbase after another 50 minute game of 4-protect-1.
I really like iG, I like their playstyle and they have some awesome players. Chuan is likable because you can find English interviews with him, there's a video that was posted on reddit of him playing a drinking game with some people at TI2 but he seems to be in the minority there.
@OP... I'm new to the forums - I've read the rules regarding conduct & such - but you're full of it. Not only was most of the content in your OP misleading and extremely inaccurate ; but then you claim you've watched plenty of tournaments?
I play DotA since 2003, before Guinsoo's Allstars version. I watch DotA since 2004 - I saw the 1st IGS tournaments ; the 1st WDC featuring DotA in Singapore etc. So based on what you said... Since I've seen far more tournaments than you probably have and have been in the competitive scene & top inhouses since 2005... I'm right and you're wrong? Doesn't quite work that way man.
A lot of what you said was wrong, and a lot of what was right happened too long ago for new comers to really care. The game has changed. Zhou will never play Pugna mid again. People are entitled to like a certain player or team for the right or wrong reasons - "just because" holds no grounds. Not everyone has the same point of view.
I think it's just a mix of great plays and an entertaining personality. He might not be the best (I personally prefer LoH for example), but he's a great player that plays crowd-favorite heroes (ie Pudge) and, just like MC for example, always jokes around outside of the game. What's not to love?
Your post reads like a classical BW > SC2 argument.
You weren't around when the CK-Lina DS-kunkka, radiance-alchemist combos got invented and shut down, but those games show spectacular play as well. I'm not in any way denying that Puppey / Na'vi is a strong team, I'm just saying that there are perhaps better teams out there that you are ignorant to or indifferent of.
That'd be like me telling someone who never followed BW competitively how he wasn't around when [insert nostalgic memory from 6 years ago].
I really don't think people view Navi as the end all be all of Dota. It is just due recognition for the winner of TI1. A lot of people here actually have their own favourite players from all parts of the world.
Navi's style is fresh and entertaining too. You can never count them out. They are a relatively new team, but their players have long history. From Ars-Art, VP's legendary Lina and Nerubian Assasin. LoH is probably the most accomplished player in the history of non-Chinese Dota. Puppey's reputation speaks for itself. Dendi has been there since the days of Wolker Gaming as a 15-16 years old prodigy.
Na'Vi takes everything in a more lighthearted way than the Chinese take it. Look at the game 2 of Na’Vi vs IG today. They smile and joke around during the picking phase. They look like they are actually having fun while playing a video game. Video games to me are supposed to be fun, and people tend to take ESPORTS too seriously and forget why we even watch them. Na'Vi practices a whole lot less than their Chinese counterparts but they still find a way to win. They might not be the very best individually but they play like a real team.
It also helps that the Na'Vi players speak English, this helps a lot of fans connect with them in a way that non-English speaking Chinese players just can't do. They just seem like lifeless machines out there; they are disciplined and hardly ever pop a smile. Mouz sports also have a great following despite not being a very good team; they are entertaining and try different things even though it might not give them the best chance of winning.
You weren't around when the CK-Lina DS-kunkka, radiance-alchemist combos got invented and shut down, but those games show spectacular play as well. I'm not in any way denying that Puppey / Na'vi is a strong team, I'm just saying that there are perhaps better teams out there that you are ignorant to or indifferent of.
That'd be like me telling someone who never followed BW competitively how he wasn't around when [insert nostalgic memory from 6 years ago].
okay i apologize. didn't intend it that way, just wanted to subtly raise consciousness to other teams that are in my opinion not as recognized as they should be.
On September 02 2012 13:25 Tevinhead wrote: Dendi is a player that likes to make stuff happen. He isn't afraid to do things that others would be. And when it pays off he makes really amazing plays, when it doesn't, well not as much notice is taken. However Dendi does deserve the hype in my opinion. His reaction times and consistency just speak of someone with a lot of natural talent. This is a player who was accused by the community in DOTA 1 for using macros and scripts because apparently no one can invoke with such speed and accuracy. Dendi responded by posting a video of himself in wtf mode with invoker and proceeding to cast every single spell in very quick succession whilst you can see his fingers. His fingers looked like that of a BW pro.
Puppey the hivemind, very very intelligent player, with deep game understanding.
Light Of Heaven the ever so consistent off-laner.
XBOCT the carry that seems to start carrying 15 minutes before other team's carry does.
Ars-art the secret carry, always linking with his team perfectly, creating kills and saving carries.
All of these players are amazing in their own right. But it's Dendi with that mechanical skill to pull off any idea he thinks of. The reaction time to dodge that which most couldn't and the balls to always try the improbable. And it's not just his skills, he's a funny guy, always likes to be a joker, always trolling. He's an entertainer in and out of the game as well as a very nice and mannered guy. Sort of like a cross between MC and White-Ra. Add all of this entertainment value and skill, then add the fact that he's in the most successful Dota 2 team, by far. And you have clear reasons for fanboyism.
OPA DENDI <3
Except if you compare Dendi's mid lane play to his counterparts on other teams, it's been arguably much less exceptional than Puppey or LoH.
The only reason it shines in the fans' eyes is because the 2nd position/mid lane role gets more attention, because it gets lots of kills.
Puppey/LOH have been carrying Na'vi the entire time. LOH in particular. Since they've made it into WB finals, LOH has been outperforming his team a vast majority of time.
Yup.
But apparently the fans love Dagon Puck more than immaculate hard lane play or some of the smartest drafting in the game.
Dendi is a charismatic and extremely high skilled player, arguably the best solo mid in europe. The chinese might be really good also, even better (I personally think Ferrari is the best solo mid in Dota), but they don't really have exposure on the western scene, most of them don't know english, you don't really feel connected I guess.
And Zeus wasn't a "shit" hero when Merlini played him, the old Blink Dagger made him really strong (along with a smaller hero pool, different meta, etc), he was even a common ban at some point.
The first thing I did when I got interested in DotA last year was learn about the Chinese scene. There's a ton of amazing videos on YouTube translated from Chinese. I recommend them strongly to anyone struggling to identify with the Chinese teams. There is so much more to DotA than Na'Vi.
Azarkon in the LR thread in the tournament section is why some of the people who actually know about DotA's past history tend to get extremely annoyed. Mind you, he's not the only person. There are literally thousands of Navi fans out there who are just as bad as him.
to reference starcraft 2. a lot of people watch dota with commentators. the major commentators all love na'vi/dendi/puppey/LoH. so the people watching love them.it's like clide fanboys with tastosis.
The epic game 2/3 against IG speak for themselves. The entire team is fun to watch, and Dendi has a great personality outside of the game. He comes up with a lot of big plays as solo mid and in teamfights, there is absolutely no denying that.
Puppey's drafting + chen is insane. LightOfHeaven has been playing sick Enigma. Xboct is a great hard carry farmer. Dendi is an excellent solo mid and does some huge plays. His DOTAsense is over 9000. AA's support is top class.
etc
Also they're white in a sea of completely anonymous, emotionless Chinese teams.
EPT
