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On September 04 2012 05:18 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 05:07 iokke wrote:
^ idk where you are getting this from? a few uninformed posts here and there or a few excited posts from fans, which I don't see anything wrong with. Again, same happens in other sports. I used to root for my soccer team chanting how they are the best even though I knew they wouldn't win the championship.
I got a sense that Chinese teams had and got plenty of respect. Even being knew to the scene, I quickly realized that the Chinese are the teams to beat and didn't think Navi would even go this far, because I read everywhere about how strong Chinese teams are. Only happened because the Chinese were given due respect.
I heard chants for Chinese teams and people clapping for good plays for them as well. Yes, not as much as Na'Vi, but it was still there (though didn't watch final with sound). I heard only 1 major booo and even that was directed more at Naga ult than anything else.
Sure majority of the crowd cheered for their favorites a lot more, but it wasn't like they completely shit on everything other teams did. get over it The commentator bias was pretty clear, especially from Tobi. The crowd was constantly booing IG/LGD when they would use Naga Siren to escape with, and were also booing when IG/LGD would run a 4 protect 1 strategy with someone like AM or Morph. And yet when Na'vi ran the exact same thing, people where cheering when they would display XBOCT's gold values, or Navi's overall EXP/Gold rates. Yet when Sylar's graph, Burning's graph, or Zhou's graph gets put up, no one says anything, no one claps, etc. etc. That's just the commentators and crowds, who in all honesty weren't that bad; they however did show an obvious bias that was borderline rude. They didn't even clap when IG was making a really big turn around against LGD in g1 at all, and hardly anyone watched the epic EHOME vs Orange match with a ridiculously huge Tiny. It was so bad that 2GD and the analyst booth had to remind both the commentators and fans to not be disrespectful to the Chinese teams, because it was becoming blatantly obvious what was going on. When we shift it to the online forums, it just becomes 300x worse. Azarkon totally just flame baited everyone in the LR thread, and there were plenty of other Navi "fanboys" that were dick riding harder than I could even imagine. People saying 430 overrated and a subpar mid (LOL), or saying Dendi was ridiculously beyond anyone else. That was just on the TL, where the moderators actually make an attempt to curb the ridiculous behavior. On GosuGamers.net, JoinDota, PlayDota, Reddit, etc. the amount of Navi dick riding was beyond me; at that point it wasn't even because they were fans of Na'vi (as clearly quite a few of them were fans of CLG, EG, Mouz, or coL), but because they simply didn't like the Chinese teams at all, and quite clearly didn't respect them one bit. To say that there was a clear bias against Chinese teams isn't far from the truth at all. It WAS the truth, and it happened right in front of everyone. This wasn't even like SC2 where the crowd would cheer for their fan favorites, but still would be polite and recognize big plays from the opposing player. The crowd basically showed almost zero recognition for some really huge plays by YYF's Darkseer in the grand final, or Faith's ridiculous Disrupter play in G3, or some of the great Chinese vs Chinese games we had in the LB that were much more than just farm fests (only TWO games were farm fests, and really those games were decided pretty early on when the losing team gave up pretty big map control).
fucking awesome, you just summed up my feelings perfectly well. I 100% agree with everything you said, it is just so sad that some people fail to see the borderline racism going on, or some people just feigning ignorance even though it is so batantly obvious. there were so many haters on the jd forums with absolutely no reason but "chinese doto boring rice farm" or "chinese suck dicks", clearly because they simply hated the chinese.
Navi is one of my favorite teams, and Im sure they have a lot of good fans too, but sadly the retarded fanboys are the ones you keep in mind, and their number is high.
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On September 04 2012 05:44 aintz wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 05:35 BackSideAttack wrote:On September 04 2012 05:30 aintz wrote:
racism is racism; even in esports where it's not nearly as bad as real sports/real world.
grow some skin fellow chinese fans, who cares if commentators are biased and the crowd cheers only for non chinese teams. plus theres chinese commentators who are much more knowledgeable about dota. If the Chinese fans have to put up with it, then the Western fans should stop trying to justify their racism. Racism is racism. im chinese.... you need to grow up. its kids like you who make the situation worse than what it is. even the chinese commentators whos sitting infront of all the fanboy crowd and biased english commentators didnt give a crap about what was happening. learn to accept the fucking community or dont be a part of it.
Can you not read? I was agreeing with you. If you read any of my prior posts i was saying that racism in sports is expected. People are saying that race was not a factor in the crowd liking Navi and I am pointing out that it is obviously false.
Next time, try and take the first step into adulthood and learn to read k?
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On September 04 2012 05:18 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 05:07 iokke wrote:
^ idk where you are getting this from? a few uninformed posts here and there or a few excited posts from fans, which I don't see anything wrong with. Again, same happens in other sports. I used to root for my soccer team chanting how they are the best even though I knew they wouldn't win the championship.
I got a sense that Chinese teams had and got plenty of respect. Even being knew to the scene, I quickly realized that the Chinese are the teams to beat and didn't think Navi would even go this far, because I read everywhere about how strong Chinese teams are. Only happened because the Chinese were given due respect.
I heard chants for Chinese teams and people clapping for good plays for them as well. Yes, not as much as Na'Vi, but it was still there (though didn't watch final with sound). I heard only 1 major booo and even that was directed more at Naga ult than anything else.
Sure majority of the crowd cheered for their favorites a lot more, but it wasn't like they completely shit on everything other teams did. get over it The commentator bias was pretty clear, especially from Tobi. The crowd was constantly booing IG/LGD when they would use Naga Siren to escape with, and were also booing when IG/LGD would run a 4 protect 1 strategy with someone like AM or Morph. And yet when Na'vi ran the exact same thing, people where cheering when they would display XBOCT's gold values, or Navi's overall EXP/Gold rates. Yet when Sylar's graph, Burning's graph, or Zhou's graph gets put up, no one says anything, no one claps, etc. etc. That's just the commentators and crowds, who in all honesty weren't that bad; they however did show an obvious bias that was borderline rude. They didn't even clap when IG was making a really big turn around against LGD in g1 at all, and hardly anyone watched the epic EHOME vs Orange match with a ridiculously huge Tiny. It was so bad that 2GD and the analyst booth had to remind both the commentators and fans to not be disrespectful to the Chinese teams, because it was becoming blatantly obvious what was going on. When we shift it to the online forums, it just becomes 300x worse. Azarkon totally just flame baited everyone in the LR thread, and there were plenty of other Navi "fanboys" that were dick riding harder than I could even imagine. People saying 430 overrated and a subpar mid (LOL), or saying Dendi was ridiculously beyond anyone else. That was just on the TL, where the moderators actually make an attempt to curb the ridiculous behavior. On GosuGamers.net, JoinDota, PlayDota, Reddit, etc. the amount of Navi dick riding was beyond me; at that point it wasn't even because they were fans of Na'vi (as clearly quite a few of them were fans of CLG, EG, Mouz, or coL), but because they simply didn't like the Chinese teams at all, and quite clearly didn't respect them one bit. To say that there was a clear bias against Chinese teams isn't far from the truth at all. It WAS the truth, and it happened right in front of everyone. This wasn't even like SC2 where the crowd would cheer for their fan favorites, but still would be polite and recognize big plays from the opposing player. The crowd basically showed almost zero recognition for some really huge plays by YYF's Darkseer in the grand final, or Faith's ridiculous Disrupter play in G3, or some of the great Chinese vs Chinese games we had in the LB that were much more than just farm fests (only TWO games were farm fests, and really those games were decided pretty early on when the losing team gave up pretty big map control).
Lol i just remember when LGD was playing IG, the crowd was mostly silent, even though there were NUMEROUS great plays happening all around.
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This reminds me a year ago when Westerns said Starcraft 2 is still young, both Westerns and Koreans had equal footing, it won't be Korean dominance anymore like brood war. A year later we see a total Korean dominance, Deja vu?
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On September 04 2012 06:29 furymonkey wrote:
This reminds me a year ago when Westerns said Starcraft 2 is still young, both Westerns and Koreans had equal footing, it won't be Korean dominance anymore like brood war. A year later we see a total Korean dominance, Deja vu?
It's nothing like BroodWar though, I hate that comparison. We had a western team putting a great performance and winning against all the best chinese teams. What were the chances of Idra beating Flash, JD and Bisu? EG took a game off the tournament champions, imagine a mid-high level foreigner taking a game off Flash. TongFu and EHOME didn't look that dominant at all, they lost to teams like Darer, mTw and Complexity. Mid level koreans at BW were still far ahead of the top level foreigners. And WE was a complete joke, got stomped by Mouz, one of the weakest teams at the tournament.
Overall, DK, iG and LGD looked far above western teams that are not Navi, which is much close to SC2 than BW. A lone foreigner hope among a dominant asian force. And it still looks that that sea is bigger in SC2 than Dota2, specially with the arrival of the BW pros.
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I read the thread, the person you quoted was being sarcastic, but lots of people at jd ARE actually just as dumb.
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On September 04 2012 07:05 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 06:29 furymonkey wrote:
This reminds me a year ago when Westerns said Starcraft 2 is still young, both Westerns and Koreans had equal footing, it won't be Korean dominance anymore like brood war. A year later we see a total Korean dominance, Deja vu? It's nothing like BroodWar though, I hate that comparison. We had a western team putting a great performance and winning against all the best chinese teams. What were the chances of Idra beating Flash, JD and Bisu? EG took a game off the tournament champions, imagine a mid-high level foreigner taking a game off Flash. TongFu and EHOME didn't look that dominant at all, they lost to teams like Darer, mTw and Complexity. Mid level koreans at BW were still far ahead of the top level foreigners. And WE was a complete joke, got stomped by Mouz, one of the weakest teams at the tournament. Overall, DK, iG and LGD looked far above western teams that are not Navi, which is much close to SC2 than BW. A lone foreigner hope among a dominant asian force. And it still looks that that sea is bigger in SC2 than Dota2, specially with the arrival of the BW pros.
EHOME and Tongfu took care of business in the lower brackets and didn't lose until they met an opposing Chinese team, same with DK. Na'vi was the only team that was able to compete; out of the 8 spots it's all China/SEA except Na'vi. Believing that there's not a gap is pretty funny. Sure it's not the exact same gap as it was in BW, but the gap is pretty noticeably large.
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During the World Cup I cheered for South Korea and Japan and I would cheer for China if they would qualify, because they are underdogs and not part of mainstream football and it's intriguing to see them play their own style.
During Brood War WCGs I cheered for non-Korean players, no matter the nationality, even though I was a fan of some Korean players. Sen, Fisheye, Elky or JohnRambo were my heroes for going up against the Koreans.
Does that make me a racist? I think not!
Players/teams who are not part of the dominating scene are not only special but also often at a disadvantage, and that makes them appealing.
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On September 04 2012 07:13 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:05 SKC wrote:On September 04 2012 06:29 furymonkey wrote:
This reminds me a year ago when Westerns said Starcraft 2 is still young, both Westerns and Koreans had equal footing, it won't be Korean dominance anymore like brood war. A year later we see a total Korean dominance, Deja vu? It's nothing like BroodWar though, I hate that comparison. We had a western team putting a great performance and winning against all the best chinese teams. What were the chances of Idra beating Flash, JD and Bisu? EG took a game off the tournament champions, imagine a mid-high level foreigner taking a game off Flash. TongFu and EHOME didn't look that dominant at all, they lost to teams like Darer, mTw and Complexity. Mid level koreans at BW were still far ahead of the top level foreigners. And WE was a complete joke, got stomped by Mouz, one of the weakest teams at the tournament. Overall, DK, iG and LGD looked far above western teams that are not Navi, which is much close to SC2 than BW. A lone foreigner hope among a dominant asian force. And it still looks that that sea is bigger in SC2 than Dota2, specially with the arrival of the BW pros. EHOME and Tongfu took care of business in the lower brackets and didn't lose until they met an opposing Chinese team, same with DK. Na'vi was the only team that was able to compete; out of the 8 spots it's all China/SEA except Na'vi. Believing that there's not a gap is pretty funny. Sure it's not the exact same gap as it was in BW, but the gap is pretty noticeably large.
Which is why I said there was a gap? Unless you believe the is no gap in SC2? I just said it's a huge exageration to compare it to the gap in BW. This were my exact words in fact: "A lone foreigner hope among a dominant asian force." I'm not sure how you can say that means there is no gap.
EHOME and TongFu could have easily lost to teams like Col or EG in a Bo1. But it was a Bo1, which makes it far more random than usual. Their only other wins in the LB were against Mouz and M5, which were two of the worst teams in the International, and the EHOME win against Orange, which was impressive, but Orange really should have won that game. It's hard to say they did that well in the LB, they won the 2 Bo1's where they had decent western oponents, but they were Bo1's. And they did not look that great in the groups stage. I wouldn't put them far ahead of anyone without additional games.
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On September 04 2012 07:13 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:05 SKC wrote:On September 04 2012 06:29 furymonkey wrote:
This reminds me a year ago when Westerns said Starcraft 2 is still young, both Westerns and Koreans had equal footing, it won't be Korean dominance anymore like brood war. A year later we see a total Korean dominance, Deja vu? It's nothing like BroodWar though, I hate that comparison. We had a western team putting a great performance and winning against all the best chinese teams. What were the chances of Idra beating Flash, JD and Bisu? EG took a game off the tournament champions, imagine a mid-high level foreigner taking a game off Flash. TongFu and EHOME didn't look that dominant at all, they lost to teams like Darer, mTw and Complexity. Mid level koreans at BW were still far ahead of the top level foreigners. And WE was a complete joke, got stomped by Mouz, one of the weakest teams at the tournament. Overall, DK, iG and LGD looked far above western teams that are not Navi, which is much close to SC2 than BW. A lone foreigner hope among a dominant asian force. And it still looks that that sea is bigger in SC2 than Dota2, specially with the arrival of the BW pros. EHOME and Tongfu took care of business in the lower brackets and didn't lose until they met an opposing Chinese team, same with DK. Na'vi was the only team that was able to compete; out of the 8 spots it's all China/SEA except Na'vi. Believing that there's not a gap is pretty funny.
There's a gap, but hopefully it won't become like Brood War where the top foreigners could only compete with B teamers. The state international Dota2 is in right now is comparable to early Brood War when the top foreigners could actually compete, BUT with the big differences that Valve is going to cultivate Dota2 as an international esport (not to mention the environment has been more and more accepting), and the game is not even released yet but has a well grown metagame.
Had Dota2 not been released I predicted Dota to go down the path of Brood War in that its basically one country and the rest of the world. Dota2 has basically reinvigorated the foreigner scene similar to SC2, but there still needs to be mindset changes and development for foreigner Dota2 to start showing better results.
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On September 04 2012 07:24 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:13 superstartran wrote:On September 04 2012 07:05 SKC wrote:On September 04 2012 06:29 furymonkey wrote:
This reminds me a year ago when Westerns said Starcraft 2 is still young, both Westerns and Koreans had equal footing, it won't be Korean dominance anymore like brood war. A year later we see a total Korean dominance, Deja vu? It's nothing like BroodWar though, I hate that comparison. We had a western team putting a great performance and winning against all the best chinese teams. What were the chances of Idra beating Flash, JD and Bisu? EG took a game off the tournament champions, imagine a mid-high level foreigner taking a game off Flash. TongFu and EHOME didn't look that dominant at all, they lost to teams like Darer, mTw and Complexity. Mid level koreans at BW were still far ahead of the top level foreigners. And WE was a complete joke, got stomped by Mouz, one of the weakest teams at the tournament. Overall, DK, iG and LGD looked far above western teams that are not Navi, which is much close to SC2 than BW. A lone foreigner hope among a dominant asian force. And it still looks that that sea is bigger in SC2 than Dota2, specially with the arrival of the BW pros. EHOME and Tongfu took care of business in the lower brackets and didn't lose until they met an opposing Chinese team, same with DK. Na'vi was the only team that was able to compete; out of the 8 spots it's all China/SEA except Na'vi. Believing that there's not a gap is pretty funny. Sure it's not the exact same gap as it was in BW, but the gap is pretty noticeably large. Which is why I said there was a gap? Unless you believe the is no gap in SC2? I just said it's a huge exageration to compare it to the gap in BW. EHOME and TongFu could have easily lost to teams like Col or EG in a Bo1. But it was a Bo1, which makes it far more random than usual. Their only other wins in the LB were against Mouz and M5, which were two of the worst teams in the International, and the EHOME win against Orange, which was impressive, but Orange really should have won that game. It's hard to say they did that well in the LB, they won the 2 Bo1's where they had decent western oponents, but they were Bo1's. And they did not look that great in the groups stage. I wouldn't put them far ahead of anyone without additional games.
There really wasn't any randomness at all in the victories in the bo1's; EHOME pretty much ran a line-up everyone knew they were going to run the entire time, and Tongfu didn't do anything unstandard at all. They just completely outplayed their opponents quite badly I might add.
Fact of the matter is, the Chinese/SEA teams pretty much dominated in the results category. With only Navi taking a spot in the top 8, there needs to be some serious evaluations as to how teams run before they can really get anywhere. It's pretty sad too that Navi is basically the one and only hope for the Western world right now, because coming from DotA 1 the core of Navi's squad (Dendi/LOH) are the same core of the old DTS, which means that the Western world really haven't stepped their game up very much.
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On September 04 2012 07:26 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:24 SKC wrote:On September 04 2012 07:13 superstartran wrote:On September 04 2012 07:05 SKC wrote:On September 04 2012 06:29 furymonkey wrote:
This reminds me a year ago when Westerns said Starcraft 2 is still young, both Westerns and Koreans had equal footing, it won't be Korean dominance anymore like brood war. A year later we see a total Korean dominance, Deja vu? It's nothing like BroodWar though, I hate that comparison. We had a western team putting a great performance and winning against all the best chinese teams. What were the chances of Idra beating Flash, JD and Bisu? EG took a game off the tournament champions, imagine a mid-high level foreigner taking a game off Flash. TongFu and EHOME didn't look that dominant at all, they lost to teams like Darer, mTw and Complexity. Mid level koreans at BW were still far ahead of the top level foreigners. And WE was a complete joke, got stomped by Mouz, one of the weakest teams at the tournament. Overall, DK, iG and LGD looked far above western teams that are not Navi, which is much close to SC2 than BW. A lone foreigner hope among a dominant asian force. And it still looks that that sea is bigger in SC2 than Dota2, specially with the arrival of the BW pros. EHOME and Tongfu took care of business in the lower brackets and didn't lose until they met an opposing Chinese team, same with DK. Na'vi was the only team that was able to compete; out of the 8 spots it's all China/SEA except Na'vi. Believing that there's not a gap is pretty funny. Sure it's not the exact same gap as it was in BW, but the gap is pretty noticeably large. Which is why I said there was a gap? Unless you believe the is no gap in SC2? I just said it's a huge exageration to compare it to the gap in BW. EHOME and TongFu could have easily lost to teams like Col or EG in a Bo1. But it was a Bo1, which makes it far more random than usual. Their only other wins in the LB were against Mouz and M5, which were two of the worst teams in the International, and the EHOME win against Orange, which was impressive, but Orange really should have won that game. It's hard to say they did that well in the LB, they won the 2 Bo1's where they had decent western oponents, but they were Bo1's. And they did not look that great in the groups stage. I wouldn't put them far ahead of anyone without additional games. There really wasn't any randomness at all in the victories in the bo1's; EHOME pretty much ran a line-up everyone knew they were going to run the entire time, and Tongfu didn't do anything unstandard at all. They just completely outplayed their opponents quite badly I might add.
Col completelly outplayed TF in the groups stages. iG, LGD and DK completelly outplayed Navi in their WB matches and Navi managed to turn it around. Outplaying someone in a single match doesn't mean all that much.
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Another problem is kind of the playstyle and lack of understanding of the games. Just as the Chinese are, on average, superior to western dota teams, Chinese fans are, on average, similarily better at understanding. For example, not everybody can appreciate the genius f what yyf + Zhou did with the bear on game 4 to get far more farm and exp than expected, but the type of flashy plays of dendi are understadable by most.
The caster have a bit of a role to play in this though, because most of them have no clue about the nuances of chinese dota, for example, I die a bit inside every time somebody mentions "the play" because it was, in of itself, the least mechanically impressive of anything navi did that weekend. It was simply a colossal fuckup caused by overconfidence and discrepancies in the game engines that allowed navi to execute literally the only buttons they could have hit
I personally became a far bigger fan of navi over the weekend because of what I would describe as "next level" meta not shown by any of the Chinese teams until ig in g3 and 4 of the finals. The way they made up the gap in familiarity with Chinese style and gap in individual skill (mostly xbocht and landing puppey) was amazing. The mindgames from capitalizing on igs losses, the indomintable resilience in the face of the fields of top tier teams.
I felt the event's" racism" factor was present but no where near as bad as people would claim, of course navi was the favorites so the home crowd cheered more, but there were fait waves I applause for ig as well, and navi themselves were booed several times (abet far less loudly and less whole-heartedly) when they used nags ult to escape.
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On September 04 2012 07:28 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 07:26 superstartran wrote:On September 04 2012 07:24 SKC wrote:On September 04 2012 07:13 superstartran wrote:On September 04 2012 07:05 SKC wrote:On September 04 2012 06:29 furymonkey wrote:
This reminds me a year ago when Westerns said Starcraft 2 is still young, both Westerns and Koreans had equal footing, it won't be Korean dominance anymore like brood war. A year later we see a total Korean dominance, Deja vu? It's nothing like BroodWar though, I hate that comparison. We had a western team putting a great performance and winning against all the best chinese teams. What were the chances of Idra beating Flash, JD and Bisu? EG took a game off the tournament champions, imagine a mid-high level foreigner taking a game off Flash. TongFu and EHOME didn't look that dominant at all, they lost to teams like Darer, mTw and Complexity. Mid level koreans at BW were still far ahead of the top level foreigners. And WE was a complete joke, got stomped by Mouz, one of the weakest teams at the tournament. Overall, DK, iG and LGD looked far above western teams that are not Navi, which is much close to SC2 than BW. A lone foreigner hope among a dominant asian force. And it still looks that that sea is bigger in SC2 than Dota2, specially with the arrival of the BW pros. EHOME and Tongfu took care of business in the lower brackets and didn't lose until they met an opposing Chinese team, same with DK. Na'vi was the only team that was able to compete; out of the 8 spots it's all China/SEA except Na'vi. Believing that there's not a gap is pretty funny. Sure it's not the exact same gap as it was in BW, but the gap is pretty noticeably large. Which is why I said there was a gap? Unless you believe the is no gap in SC2? I just said it's a huge exageration to compare it to the gap in BW. EHOME and TongFu could have easily lost to teams like Col or EG in a Bo1. But it was a Bo1, which makes it far more random than usual. Their only other wins in the LB were against Mouz and M5, which were two of the worst teams in the International, and the EHOME win against Orange, which was impressive, but Orange really should have won that game. It's hard to say they did that well in the LB, they won the 2 Bo1's where they had decent western oponents, but they were Bo1's. And they did not look that great in the groups stage. I wouldn't put them far ahead of anyone without additional games. There really wasn't any randomness at all in the victories in the bo1's; EHOME pretty much ran a line-up everyone knew they were going to run the entire time, and Tongfu didn't do anything unstandard at all. They just completely outplayed their opponents quite badly I might add. Col completelly outplayed TF in the groups stages. iG, LGD and DK completelly outplayed Navi in their WB matches and Navi managed to turn it around. Outplaying someone in a single match doesn't mean all that much.
EHOME/Tongfu did nothing different and none of the Western teams they faced adapted at all. It's not like EHOME/Tongfu did anything new or unfamiliar, they simply just garbage canned the Western teams they faced. Pretending that EHOME/Tongfu got lucky because of the bo1 is just hilarious. Over a BO5, even with all the issues that EHOME/Tongfu have, I think they probably beat a vast majority of the Western teams out there.
coL beat Tongfu also because Tongfu went full dumbass mode and drafted Lone Druid for Hao, a hero that Hao has historically been awful at in DotA 1. In reality, we can turn this argument in multiple ways. I could say one tournament doesn't mean shit. It could just be all the Western teams just had a bad tournament right? Excuses are just excuses. They got outplayed when push comes to shove, and in the elimination matches, the Chinese teams held their nerves and executed when everything was on the line.
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It was much better than how sports fans treat the away team. Until people start throwing bags of piss, it's not even close. It's just natural to root for the "home" team, even if it's weird to call Navi the home team in Seattle. But for plenty of obvious reasons, most foreigners will support a team like Navi over chinese teams that they have seen for the first time in this tournament. mTw got similar support in DH, and even the cast was also biased, but it also wasn't a big deal.
They should have been more respectful, less booing and all, but the issue with the crowd siding with Navi is just natural. Them cheering as much for iG would just be fake. Next thing people will start complaining that V1lat is too biased.
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On September 04 2012 07:36 SKC wrote:
It was much better than how sports fans treat the away team. Until people start throwing bags of piss, it's not even close. It's just natural to root for the "home" team, even if it's weird to call Navi the home team in Seattle. But for plenty of obvious reasons, most foreigners will support a team like Navi over chinese teams that they have seen for the first time in this tournament. mTw got similar support in DH, and even the cast was also biased, but it also wasn't a big deal.
They should have been more respectful, less booing and all, but the issue with the crowd siding with Navi is just natural. Them cheering as much for iG would just be fake. Next thing people will start complaining that V1lat is too biased.
If fans in Starcraft 2 can be fairly neutral while supporting their primary fan favorite, then DotA 2 fans can do the same. The crowd got way out of hand, and it was honestly ridiculous.
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What I don't understand is this claim that navi fans are racists..
Just because I rooted for navi I somehow hate the Chinese race and believe their are inferior?
Not cheering for or dislikeing a team does not mean you hate the race of the players of the team
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Its just that Dendi has a face because he does crazy stuff, its like comparing a singing rootcatz proxy hatching and 8 pooling with a shy solid korean.
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On September 04 2012 07:46 Ramong wrote:
What I don't understand is this claim that navi fans are racists..
Just because I rooted for navi I somehow hate the Chinese race and believe their are inferior?
Not cheering for or dislikeing a team does not mean you hate the race of the players of the team
Refer to my previous post as to why there's a general confusion in this thread:
On September 04 2012 03:24 Xpace wrote:So, to sum up this thread, we have: Group A - Na'Vi fans, who like them for their good values, such as+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2012 19:44 Kipsate wrote:
Why Dendi is popular should be easy
He is a good player
He is young(he is pretty much a kid, which is awesome).
He is likeable(good personality, dances etc)
He plays the flashy role(solo mid)
He is slightly insane(makes big dives, big plays, sometimes dies for it, goes blink dagger force staff on like every hero)
He plays on Na'vi, the only non-Asian team to make it far.
Na'vi have a strong history of dominance in Dota 2.
Na'vi plays very aggressive and with interesting picks(this is not on Dendi but it does make their games in general more attractive to the general public.
On September 03 2012 11:06 hacklebeast wrote:
For the majority of viewers on the english stream, they are all from a different continent.
All of the teams left are obviously very talented, so it's hard to argue that you like one of these teams over another because they are just objectively better. Na'vi picks more uncommon heroes, so that helps, but they are more liked in most cases simply because they have more personality than the chinese. The chinese go into their booth, play their game, shake hands afterwards, then leave. That's not more enticing to root for than dendi who goofs around in interviews, dances on stage, ect. It's not a race thing, it's a "people actually know a little bit about what the players are like outside of the game" thing. You guys keep arguing your points, but what you don't understand is, everyone gets it already. I'm a Na'Vi (and Zenith) fan, you're a Na'Vi fan, most of us here and in the audience are Na'Vi fans. What you're failing to understand is... Group B - Na'Vi fans, who are simply supporting them for retarded reasons such as+ Show Spoiler +On September 03 2012 09:05 breakingties wrote:
you want to know why we're all following na vi?
because they're not chinese. that's why. ^ If you look closely at this idiotic post, you can see the poster used the word "we", as if ALL Na'Vi fans share the same reason he does, when in fact, we don't.Also known as "Chinese DotA so boring lolol". Completely forgetting games like Na'Vi's 16 minute GG to iG, or LGD vs iG hitting over 60 kills in 40 minutes, or the several Xboct AM farm games, just because the players are "chinks". /sarcasm on Guess what, a Chinese team won. Oh, and they completely outplayed Na'Vi. So you know what that means? DotA2 sucks as a spectator/e-Sport game, where the "boring" teams win. Mind blown! /sarcasm off Group C - The Na'Vi anti-fansGet over yourself. Close to half the viewers for TI2 were from China (275000 outside China, 500000 when including China). I'm pretty sure iG has a lot of support on their home soil. Yeah, TI2 was hosted Seattle, sucks for you, but get over it because I'm pretty sure that million dollar check was worth the boos that iG got. Team Liquid is an English forum, so if you want to hate on Na'Vi, I'm sure your thread will be much more appreciated on a .cn website. + Show Spoiler +On September 04 2012 02:27 Skiblet wrote:
I really can't see with people thinking 'Dendi' or Na'Vi when dota is mentioned, don't we need super popular players and teams to promote esports? Its like if someone just blindly said MVP is the best player in the world even if they only played starcraft casually and didn't really watch. Are you offended by that? do you always feel the need to argue with that person? If you do then you've got some serious issues. You can't come with your 'hipster' attitude saying there are way better chinese players/teams that people don't know nearly as well as they know Dendi or Na'Vi
Just let people love who they love and just face the fact that Dendi IS the most popular Dota 2 player, and on top of that is EXCELLENT at the game, and streams almost every single day. I see no problem with a player who loves dota, and practices his ass off in it as a 'celebrity' in the dota community Yeah... stop trying to convince Na'Vi fans that Na'Vi isn't the best, because they don't give a rats ass.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Jggs8.png)
