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Doc Daneeka
Profile Joined March 2010
United States577 Posts
August 17 2012 19:46 GMT
#561
i agree with fungal changing to a slow. that's gotta be one of the top 5 or 10 design tweaks that need to make it to browder's and kim's desks somehow. it would make tweaking the other aspects of it so much more flexible i think.
payed off security
Shade_FR
Profile Joined June 2010
France378 Posts
August 17 2012 19:54 GMT
#562
On August 18 2012 03:38 Lorch wrote:
Friends and family has in fact recieved keyes, i don't know if they are playing yet though, and since it's nda no one is allowed to talk about it anyways.

I did read about Blizzard asking F&F for Battle.net infos, but didn't know that the keys were sent. It's good to know !

I guess it will be a F&F Beta under NDA for about 7 - 10 days, then will come the first wave of invites (start of the Closed Beta).
EU Zerg player - Streaming @ http://twitch.tv/shade_cst
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
August 17 2012 20:01 GMT
#563
During one of the PTRs, the Fungal spell was changed to a projectile that took a split second to land instead of the instant spell that we have now. I think they considered changing Fungal to a slow spell against air, but they decided against both changes after a lot of community outcry.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
3002 Posts
August 17 2012 20:05 GMT
#564
On August 18 2012 05:01 eviltomahawk wrote:
During one of the PTRs, the Fungal spell was changed to a projectile that took a split second to land instead of the instant spell that we have now. I think they considered changing Fungal to a slow spell against air, but they decided against both changes after a lot of community outcry.


i dont think anyone would care if hydras weren't complete trash.
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
August 17 2012 20:10 GMT
#565
On August 18 2012 04:40 Zergrusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2012 03:55 Plansix wrote:
On August 18 2012 03:48 Snowbear wrote:
On August 18 2012 03:01 Energizer wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:53 Snowbear wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things.

I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage...

We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less.


Please stop whining before the game is even in beta. If it's OP then blizzard WILL NERF IT. Ghost snipe was OP so blizzard nerfed it. Tanks were OP so blizzard nerfed them. Reapers were OP so blizzard nerfed them.

I got the feeling that blizzard will remove the splash damage from the mines. Reason? Drops. Low level players will lose their whole mineral line by 4 dropped mines. Even pro's miss drops somethimes.



Really? I was under the impression that Blizzard buffs/Nerfs according to the outcrys of outspoken groups. After all thats why the ghost/infestor were nerfed as much as they were followed by buffs to units like the Queen/Phoenix right?


Blizzard nerfs things because of:
1) pro player feedback
2) stats
3) they watch tournaments themselves.

Ghosts were too powerful, every kid could see this. Infestors: same case. Now creep is spreading too fast, and blizzard nerfs it. Ravens miss something, so blizzard makes them faster.

I don't say that blizzard is always right with their nerfs, but most of the time they actually are.


I love it when Snowbear posts, because I normally agree with him. Blizzard has done a good job with balance and reacted well to most issues. They are not perfect, but who is(beyond Taeja, that is).



Funguls rooting has to be changed to a slowing spell(still rooting Blink stalkers) for the greater good of SC2

and if zergs AA has problems they can always Unnerf the 2 nerfs the hydralisk got.

I would really like for Fungal to be AoE Slow Corruption, meaning that it does no damage, slow units and improve damage they take for 20%(subject to change). That Way, Infestor will be used for its purpose, and that is support caster, not like now where people just throw random units(Lings/Roaches/Banelings) at the opponent while chain-fungaling, and in the end, that is what does damage.

Even if I'm Zerg, the whole concept of chain fungals is incredibly stupid, it just kills the micro, enemy can spread out a bit, but if you are hit before that, that is it...
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
August 17 2012 20:13 GMT
#566
On August 18 2012 05:10 Ramiz1989 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2012 04:40 Zergrusher wrote:
On August 18 2012 03:55 Plansix wrote:
On August 18 2012 03:48 Snowbear wrote:
On August 18 2012 03:01 Energizer wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:53 Snowbear wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:13 Ramiz1989 wrote:
On August 17 2012 23:04 Snowbear wrote:
It's blizzard. They will nerf OP things.

I know, I am following that logic, but I am not convinced. Currently Widow Mine doesn't cost a lot, 75/25, but it prevents Muta harass completely, which is retarded. There is no sane Zerg that will trade Mutas that are 100/100 for Widow Mines, and currently Widow Mine does 200 damage to single target unit, and they even BUFFED that damage...

We will see, but I hope for more diversity, not less.


Please stop whining before the game is even in beta. If it's OP then blizzard WILL NERF IT. Ghost snipe was OP so blizzard nerfed it. Tanks were OP so blizzard nerfed them. Reapers were OP so blizzard nerfed them.

I got the feeling that blizzard will remove the splash damage from the mines. Reason? Drops. Low level players will lose their whole mineral line by 4 dropped mines. Even pro's miss drops somethimes.



Really? I was under the impression that Blizzard buffs/Nerfs according to the outcrys of outspoken groups. After all thats why the ghost/infestor were nerfed as much as they were followed by buffs to units like the Queen/Phoenix right?


Blizzard nerfs things because of:
1) pro player feedback
2) stats
3) they watch tournaments themselves.

Ghosts were too powerful, every kid could see this. Infestors: same case. Now creep is spreading too fast, and blizzard nerfs it. Ravens miss something, so blizzard makes them faster.

I don't say that blizzard is always right with their nerfs, but most of the time they actually are.


I love it when Snowbear posts, because I normally agree with him. Blizzard has done a good job with balance and reacted well to most issues. They are not perfect, but who is(beyond Taeja, that is).



Funguls rooting has to be changed to a slowing spell(still rooting Blink stalkers) for the greater good of SC2

and if zergs AA has problems they can always Unnerf the 2 nerfs the hydralisk got.

I would really like for Fungal to be AoE Slow Corruption, meaning that it does no damage, slow units and improve damage they take for 20%(subject to change). That Way, Infestor will be used for its purpose, and that is support caster, not like now where people just throw random units(Lings/Roaches/Banelings) at the opponent while chain-fungaling, and in the end, that is what does damage.

Even if I'm Zerg, the whole concept of chain fungals is incredibly stupid, it just kills the micro, enemy can spread out a bit, but if you are hit before that, that is it...

That's actually a pretty interesting idea, because I think that would actually work against Blink Stalkers since even with Blink micro you'd be taking way too much damage to actually win the fight.
InVerno
Profile Joined May 2011
258 Posts
August 17 2012 20:25 GMT
#567
Basically the Viper is what the infestor was intended to be in the composition but better. I mean, the viper design is better in any aspect , from a player and spectator view, his abilities seems infestor abilities but way more interesting and "equal" .. Infestor is simply broken by design, its like the neural parasite, or too op or too up, there is no mid way for a good design. "slow units" its more balaced, we all know, but its funny to watch? i believe is not, havin an army in a swamp is not more funny than chain fungals, at least with chain fungals the casters can shout out something silly like "huge fungal". I hope Vipers will take the infestor place in the metagame, and we can all say bye to infestor with lotv. They have the same role, for me vipers are a safety car for the infestor incident.
Zergrusher
Profile Joined November 2011
United States562 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 20:45:22
August 17 2012 20:36 GMT
#568
On August 18 2012 05:25 InVerno wrote:
Basically the Viper is what the infestor was intended to be in the composition but better. I mean, the viper design is better in any aspect , from a player and spectator view, his abilities seems infestor abilities but way more interesting and "equal" .. Infestor is simply broken by design, its like the neural parasite, or too op or too up, there is no mid way for a good design. "slow units" its more balaced, we all know, but its funny to watch? i believe is not, havin an army in a swamp is not more funny than chain fungals, at least with chain fungals the casters can shout out something silly like "huge fungal". I hope Vipers will take the infestor place in the metagame, and we can all say bye to infestor with lotv. They have the same role, for me vipers are a safety car for the infestor incident.



listen to me VERY carefully

you can balance NP really really easily. Make its range 8.


Also Blinding cloud only effects bio units.

which means the only time you'll might ever see it is late late game ZVZ



Blinding cloud WILL DO NOTHING against the mech balls and protoss deathballs.... that are litterally what every ZVT and ZVP is right now in HOTS.


Also you can balance Fungul by doing this:

making it a slowing spell(65%) that will still root blink stalkers.

since zergs AA would be weaker... Blizzard can buff the hydralisk like this:

- Unnerf the 2 nerfs it got.(look them up on Liquidpedia II)

- Remove Grooved spines and make 6 range default range

- make off creep movement speed 2.5

Because shure the hive tech speed upgrade is good(and should be in the game).... but it doesn't solve the main issues of the hydralisk.

After all the roach ruined zerg entirely.

its so easy to fix..... actaully you know what? One of these days I have to post a big thread on How to completely improve and fix SC2.

ItWhoSpeaks
Profile Joined September 2010
United States362 Posts
August 17 2012 21:39 GMT
#569
On August 18 2012 03:36 NormandyBoy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2012 03:19 ItWhoSpeaks wrote:
According to my friends in the industry, it is friends and family only atm.

Does that mean that you're not a friend of your friends ?


It hurts being so ill loved.
Reflection and Respect.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 17 2012 21:59 GMT
#570
On August 18 2012 05:36 Zergrusher wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2012 05:25 InVerno wrote:
Basically the Viper is what the infestor was intended to be in the composition but better. I mean, the viper design is better in any aspect , from a player and spectator view, his abilities seems infestor abilities but way more interesting and "equal" .. Infestor is simply broken by design, its like the neural parasite, or too op or too up, there is no mid way for a good design. "slow units" its more balaced, we all know, but its funny to watch? i believe is not, havin an army in a swamp is not more funny than chain fungals, at least with chain fungals the casters can shout out something silly like "huge fungal". I hope Vipers will take the infestor place in the metagame, and we can all say bye to infestor with lotv. They have the same role, for me vipers are a safety car for the infestor incident.



listen to me VERY carefully

you can balance NP really really easily. Make its range 8.


Also Blinding cloud only effects bio units.

which means the only time you'll might ever see it is late late game ZVZ



Blinding cloud WILL DO NOTHING against the mech balls and protoss deathballs.... that are litterally what every ZVT and ZVP is right now in HOTS.


Also you can balance Fungul by doing this:

making it a slowing spell(65%) that will still root blink stalkers.

since zergs AA would be weaker... Blizzard can buff the hydralisk like this:

- Unnerf the 2 nerfs it got.(look them up on Liquidpedia II)

- Remove Grooved spines and make 6 range default range

- make off creep movement speed 2.5

Because shure the hive tech speed upgrade is good(and should be in the game).... but it doesn't solve the main issues of the hydralisk.

After all the roach ruined zerg entirely.

its so easy to fix..... actaully you know what? One of these days I have to post a big thread on How to completely improve and fix SC2.



It'll be useful zvt. I don't know what you are smoking but most zvt's I play and watch are bio.
When I think of something else, something will go here
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
August 17 2012 22:02 GMT
#571
On August 18 2012 06:59 blade55555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2012 05:36 Zergrusher wrote:
On August 18 2012 05:25 InVerno wrote:
Basically the Viper is what the infestor was intended to be in the composition but better. I mean, the viper design is better in any aspect , from a player and spectator view, his abilities seems infestor abilities but way more interesting and "equal" .. Infestor is simply broken by design, its like the neural parasite, or too op or too up, there is no mid way for a good design. "slow units" its more balaced, we all know, but its funny to watch? i believe is not, havin an army in a swamp is not more funny than chain fungals, at least with chain fungals the casters can shout out something silly like "huge fungal". I hope Vipers will take the infestor place in the metagame, and we can all say bye to infestor with lotv. They have the same role, for me vipers are a safety car for the infestor incident.



listen to me VERY carefully

you can balance NP really really easily. Make its range 8.


Also Blinding cloud only effects bio units.

which means the only time you'll might ever see it is late late game ZVZ



Blinding cloud WILL DO NOTHING against the mech balls and protoss deathballs.... that are litterally what every ZVT and ZVP is right now in HOTS.


Also you can balance Fungul by doing this:

making it a slowing spell(65%) that will still root blink stalkers.

since zergs AA would be weaker... Blizzard can buff the hydralisk like this:

- Unnerf the 2 nerfs it got.(look them up on Liquidpedia II)

- Remove Grooved spines and make 6 range default range

- make off creep movement speed 2.5

Because shure the hive tech speed upgrade is good(and should be in the game).... but it doesn't solve the main issues of the hydralisk.

After all the roach ruined zerg entirely.

its so easy to fix..... actaully you know what? One of these days I have to post a big thread on How to completely improve and fix SC2.



It'll be useful zvt. I don't know what you are smoking but most zvt's I play and watch are bio.


NONO the metagame will make bio usless and mech the main army comp making viper bad. Clearly you dont understand starcraft

/sarcasm

Seriously though, I think at least until we know what the latest build is we need to stop complaining. Though I am excited to see a support caster for Zerg.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
Ramiz1989
Profile Joined July 2012
12124 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 22:15:09
August 17 2012 22:11 GMT
#572
On August 18 2012 05:25 InVerno wrote:
Basically the Viper is what the infestor was intended to be in the composition but better. I mean, the viper design is better in any aspect , from a player and spectator view, his abilities seems infestor abilities but way more interesting and "equal" .. Infestor is simply broken by design, its like the neural parasite, or too op or too up, there is no mid way for a good design. "slow units" its more balaced, we all know, but its funny to watch? i believe is not, havin an army in a swamp is not more funny than chain fungals, at least with chain fungals the casters can shout out something silly like "huge fungal". I hope Vipers will take the infestor place in the metagame, and we can all say bye to infestor with lotv. They have the same role, for me vipers are a safety car for the infestor incident.

It won't be that easy. I am pretty sure we will see more Vipers in the late game, because it is all about positioning, and these things really destroys that with Abduct, and I like it. You can even play Lair units in the late game with the Viper, since huge units that were making them problems, like Colossi or Siege Tanks, won't be problem anymore. And that feels a lot like BW Zerg where you could finish the game with Lings, Lurkers and Hydras if you had Defilers.

But on the other hand, Infestors will still be a must in the mid game, except if you went for heavy heavy pressure while going Hive, unlike Viper, all three of Infestor's abilities do damage. Fungal, Infested Terrans and Neural Parasite can really deal a huge amount of damage if used correctly.


It'll be useful zvt. I don't know what you are smoking but most zvt's I play and watch are bio.

Indeed, even if Mech becomes viable(and I hope it will), it is still pretty immobile army, and Zerg can abuse that a lot with new stuff. So, I think it will be a lot map dependent, but we will see. And Ghosts got one more unit they are good against in TvZ and TvP. :D
You will really need those Ghosts to stop constant Abducts.
"I've been to hell and back, and back to hell…and back. This time, I've brought Hell back with me."
stichtom
Profile Joined March 2011
Italy695 Posts
August 17 2012 22:22 GMT
#573
On August 18 2012 05:01 eviltomahawk wrote:
During one of the PTRs, the Fungal spell was changed to a projectile that took a split second to land instead of the instant spell that we have now. I think they considered changing Fungal to a slow spell against air, but they decided against both changes after a lot of community outcry.

Favourite player: IM.MVP ~ Favorite league: IPL
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
August 17 2012 22:34 GMT
#574
On August 18 2012 05:01 eviltomahawk wrote:
During one of the PTRs, the Fungal spell was changed to a projectile that took a split second to land instead of the instant spell that we have now. I think they considered changing Fungal to a slow spell against air, but they decided against both changes after a lot of community outcry.

I don't think that was the community's finest moment. Apparently nobody understands the difference between underpowered and underused, because if you buff a unit that suffers from the latter you'll just imbalance the game as soon as strategies tailored to its strengths are created. But as zerg was weak and the infestor did not see a lot of use, nobody wanted a nerf to its signature ability. On another note, infested terrans were a hated unit in the beta because of how pointless they were supposed to be and many people wanted to have it replaced with something superior.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
stichtom
Profile Joined March 2011
Italy695 Posts
August 18 2012 00:33 GMT
#575
Why no one is speaking about Ultralisk charge ? It seems so so so strong
Favourite player: IM.MVP ~ Favorite league: IPL
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
August 18 2012 00:42 GMT
#576
On August 18 2012 07:34 Grumbels wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2012 05:01 eviltomahawk wrote:
During one of the PTRs, the Fungal spell was changed to a projectile that took a split second to land instead of the instant spell that we have now. I think they considered changing Fungal to a slow spell against air, but they decided against both changes after a lot of community outcry.

I don't think that was the community's finest moment. Apparently nobody understands the difference between underpowered and underused, because if you buff a unit that suffers from the latter you'll just imbalance the game as soon as strategies tailored to its strengths are created. But as zerg was weak and the infestor did not see a lot of use, nobody wanted a nerf to its signature ability. On another note, infested terrans were a hated unit in the beta because of how pointless they were supposed to be and many people wanted to have it replaced with something superior.

then blizz did replace it and people wanted it cahnged back so blizz gave up on trying to cater to winers

ITs are actualyl sick good
RogerChillingworth
Profile Joined March 2010
3002 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-18 00:43:13
August 18 2012 00:42 GMT
#577
On August 18 2012 09:33 stichtom wrote:
Why no one is speaking about Ultralisk charge ? It seems so so so strong


what's the cool down? is it microable? I'm actually really anticipating it because i've always preferred ultras to broods but i just don't know the specs.

when DB said "yeah zerg has banes and fungal, but they both have some pretty harsh counters--when you really just need to clean up a bunch of marines..." i creamed my pants.
NightOfTheDead
Profile Joined August 2009
Lithuania1711 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-18 00:45:54
August 18 2012 00:45 GMT
#578
They could tweak fungal all they want, AFTER they improved hydralisks. And no Hive tech upgrade is terribad. They need speed upgrade at lair.
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
August 18 2012 00:47 GMT
#579
On August 18 2012 09:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2012 09:33 stichtom wrote:
Why no one is speaking about Ultralisk charge ? It seems so so so strong


what's the cool down? is it microable? I'm actually really anticipating it because i've always preferred ultras to broods but i just don't know the specs.

when DB said "yeah zerg has banes and fungal, but they both have some pretty harsh counters--when you really just need to clean up a bunch of marines..." i creamed my pants.

Apparently, ultralisk charge doesn't have auto-cast and thus must be manually cast, and it also apparently does friendly fire damage as well. However, I like it having these cons to balance out what would be powerful pros.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Forikorder
Profile Joined August 2011
Canada8840 Posts
August 18 2012 00:50 GMT
#580
On August 18 2012 09:47 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2012 09:42 RogerChillingworth wrote:
On August 18 2012 09:33 stichtom wrote:
Why no one is speaking about Ultralisk charge ? It seems so so so strong


what's the cool down? is it microable? I'm actually really anticipating it because i've always preferred ultras to broods but i just don't know the specs.

when DB said "yeah zerg has banes and fungal, but they both have some pretty harsh counters--when you really just need to clean up a bunch of marines..." i creamed my pants.

Apparently, ultralisk charge doesn't have auto-cast and thus must be manually cast, and it also apparently does friendly fire damage as well. However, I like it having these cons to balance out what would be powerful pros.

all of that could change instantly

though no auto cast probably wont you dont want auto cast
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