EPT[Spoilers] GSL Metropolis Neutral Depot Situation - Page 32
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GT350
United States270 Posts
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Neurosis
United States893 Posts
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On July 14 2012 01:21 Neurosis wrote: It sucks but I don't think the outcome would have been any different if the depot had been there. By that I mean, Byun just had Nestea's number. I suspect, in all likelihood, even if Byun didn't bunker rush, he'd have won the first game. However, we can't entirely discount the possibility of him losing game 1, then losing games 4 and 5, to lose 3-2. It's unlikely, given the way NesTea played in the three games we watched, but it's possible, and now, due to GOM's oversight, we'll never know how it would have gone. I can only hope that GOM does a better job in the future of avoiding this sort of thing. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On July 13 2012 22:42 Markwerf wrote: The weirdest thing about it all is that GomTV simply didn't interrupt the game when they noticed it. A referee should interrupt the game if he notices something is wrong with the game or playing field. It's like in tennis when the referee thinks the net is too low or it rains too much, the ref is and should be able to take the decision on it's own. Surely GomTV must have known something was wrong the moment the bunkers went down.. The casters (Tastetosis anyways) didn't know anything was wrong either, so I'm not sure the ref would either. He's been looking at the same depot-less map for 2 weeks like everyone else after all. Since it sounds like the mapmaker uploaded the update on his own initiative and didn't tell anyone about it, I tend to agree with Diamond that this is on the mapmaker and not Gom/Byun/ect. I'm a programmer by trade and let me tell you, the worst bugs tend to come about when someone does a stealth fix that "couldn't possibly have any other side-effects". Offtopic - is this upload 'bug' a known issue? If so, then the mapmaker definitely should have tested for that (good QA means keeping a checklist of known problems past and present to make sure they don't crop up again). | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25550 Posts
On July 14 2012 01:26 Wuster wrote: Offtopic - is this upload 'bug' a known issue? If so, then the mapmaker definitely should have tested for that (good QA means keeping a checklist of known problems past and present to make sure they don't crop up again). A couple mapmakers posted in this thread indicating that they haven't had to deal with this bug, and were skeptical of the mapmaker's story, though one of them said that given the crapitude of the blizzard map editor he wouldn't be surprised. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On July 14 2012 01:30 Blazinghand wrote: A couple mapmakers posted in this thread indicating that they haven't had to deal with this bug, and were skeptical of the mapmaker's story, though one of them said that given the crapitude of the blizzard map editor he wouldn't be surprised. I half expected this bug to be the mapmaker trying to deflect blame, but like I said, if he knew it could happen he should have double checked after. Also food for thought: Crossfire and Dual Sight did *not* have neutral supply depots below the ramp (more reasons to hate Crossfire I guess). So it's not unprecendented to be able to bunker block in the 'modern' GSL. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
I would argue that there really should be a regame in this case. In my opinion, it was pretty BM of Byun to take advantage of what was clearly a mistake in the map to perform a ridiculous cheese. It would be like in a NFL game if the uprights for one side were only half as wide as the others or something. /pitchforks There's no knowing the extent of psychological effect it would have had on the players in a multi-game series. Besides, no one prepares for a bunker rush that is useless on the map that they expect to be playing on. I don't know much about the SC2 mapmaking, but it might be a similar case to the SC1 editor where editing one layer may affect others. Maybe changing the terrain or doodad layer accidentally overlapped and deleted the supply depot. | ||
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An2quamaraN
Poland379 Posts
The outcome would be probably the same, with the difference that it would be 3-1. Byun played outstanding starcraft, while Nestea did not. It's simple that it is. | ||
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amazingoopah
United States1925 Posts
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Sorkoas
549 Posts
On July 14 2012 02:55 amazingoopah wrote: The responsibility for this clusterf*ck lies on GSL's lap... shouldn't they double check all maps that are going to be played on just in case? I'm sure this is a very rare and unexpected occurence. However since it had been out for a week or something someone should've brought it up before this match. | ||
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Bluerain
United States348 Posts
since the IM coach complained after the end of set 2, it is very possible that nestea was mentally affected despite him being a champ. although nestea has looked weak to multipronged harass in the past in games vs MMA, he did look weaker than normal in this set. it's sad that there is a possibility that the double bunker rush put him at a mental/score disadvantage. and yeah i agree that this puts byun in a negative light. if he goes on to win the GSL it will be a huge disappointment. no respect for byun but i can understand hes gotta do what hes gotta do to try to win due to the current state of the TvZ metagame. | ||
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whatevername
471 Posts
On July 14 2012 02:42 ticklishmusic wrote: Incubus was the map, sky osl against Garimto, first game, boxer lost set one and won the next two, dropping the fourth and fifth. Would of won his third osl with a casual 3-0 if he could of hit the natural off an island with a tank. If you watched the nestea game you would know he would of lost all three sets regardless, he simply handled an easy rush with horrible execution, not to mention he was complaining the night before about how he was going to lose.I remember long ago there was a situation where Boxer prepared a build where he could siege up a tank in range of a player's natural. I don't remember what tournament or what map it was, but it was a little trick he discovered himself and was going to trash his opponent. Unfortunately, the map version that was uploaded for the match was wrong, and his tank couldn't get in position. I don't remember what the outcome was, but it sucked pretty hard. I would argue that there really should be a regame in this case. In my opinion, it was pretty BM of Byun to take advantage of what was clearly a mistake in the map to perform a ridiculous cheese. It would be like in a NFL game if the uprights for one side were only half as wide as the others or something. /pitchforks There's no knowing the extent of psychological effect it would have had on the players in a multi-game series. Besides, no one prepares for a bunker rush that is useless on the map that they expect to be playing on. I don't know much about the SC2 mapmaking, but it might be a similar case to the SC1 editor where editing one layer may affect others. Maybe changing the terrain or doodad layer accidentally overlapped and deleted the supply depot. | ||
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Wuster
1974 Posts
On July 14 2012 02:42 ticklishmusic wrote: I would argue that there really should be a regame in this case. In my opinion, it was pretty BM of Byun to take advantage of what was clearly a mistake in the map to perform a ridiculous cheese. Why was it clearly a mistake when recent GSL maps have allowed bunker rushes? Besides Crossfire and Dual Sight not having neutral depots, the old 'ramp-less' maps like Tal'Darim and Bel'Shir never had anything to prevent a block between the main and natural either (in fact, MVP bunker walled Nestea on Bel'Shir last summer, and MC pylon walled Idra on Tal'Darim in MLG). | ||
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sAsThark
France27 Posts
On July 14 2012 01:06 ohampatu wrote: no, leaving the scv at 5 hp cost him the game only pulling 2 workers cost him the game not patrolling correctly cost him the game he scouted and had 30+ seconds to prepare for this, the depot had nothing to do with him losing I'll bet nestea practiced with the depot, so he may have plained a way to counter stuff like that. | ||
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Bluerain
United States348 Posts
On July 14 2012 02:43 An2quamaraN wrote: People saying "This costed Nestea the set" basically robs Byun of his great performance that day. The outcome would be probably the same, with the difference that it would be 3-1. Byun played outstanding starcraft, while Nestea did not. It's simple that it is. byun robbed his own victory by using underhanded tactics. if he brought up whut he knew about the depot to GSL then the map wouldve been changed and he wouldnt have been able to bunker block. if u think the map wouldnt have been changed if it was brought up, then yes byun's win is untainted. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On July 14 2012 03:01 whatevername wrote: Incubus was the map, sky osl against Garimto, first game, boxer lost set one and won the next two, dropping the fourth and fifth. Would of won his third osl with a casual 3-0 if he could of hit the natural off an island with a tank. If you watched the nestea game you would know he would of lost all three sets regardless, he simply handled an easy rush with horrible execution, not to mention he was complaining the night before about how he was going to lose. you sir are amazing and just saved me from rereading boxer's biography (even though it is a pretty good read). hurts though, knowing a little map problem like that cost you a championship and a golden mouse. i watched it. it looked more like a "WAIT WHAT THE FUCK THIS SHIT ISN'T SUPPOSED TO BE POSSIBLE" kind of reaction, but everyone has their own interpretation. | ||
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dabom88
United States3483 Posts
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stratmatt
United States913 Posts
On July 14 2012 03:07 Bluerain wrote: byun robbed his own victory by using underhanded tactics. if he brought up whut he knew about the depot to GSL then the map wouldve been changed and he wouldnt have been able to bunker block. if u think the map wouldnt have been changed if it was brought up, then yes byun's win is untainted. Its not the terran's responsibility to make sure the zerg has his trusty neutral supply depot to save him. Zerg cried and whined so hard in order to get these put into the game and they dont even need them anymore. Get real. | ||
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DidYuhim
Ukraine1905 Posts
On July 14 2012 02:42 ticklishmusic wrote: I would argue that there really should be a regame in this case. In my opinion, it was pretty BM of Byun to take advantage of what was clearly a mistake in the map to perform a ridiculous cheese. It would be like in a NFL game if the uprights for one side were only half as wide as the others or something. /pitchforks What do you expect of a guy who was match-fixing? | ||
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Cerz
United States10 Posts
It seems like Byun knew the map didn't have the supply depot ahead of time and prepared that build just for that map versus Nestea... maybe I am wrong, but that certainly seems to be the case, and because of that I have pretty much lost all respect for Byun as a person since he abused the wrong map and didn't inform GSL that they had been using the incorrect version. Fortunately, Team IM and Nestea took the loss in good sportsmanship and didn't cause any drama for the GSL. | ||
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