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On June 30 2012 13:21 gundream wrote:
For the record, yes, I only skimmed your article. But is this really necessary? I think the way this community responds to certain issues is rather stupid and mostly all just big overreactions that don't help the issue. If you arent going to be part of the solution, then don't become a part of the problem. Bringing more attention to the issue is stupid and quite frankly any adult in the "real world" would probably think that trying to call this out is ...stupid. They would probably just say, "Get over it and shut the fuck up."
But that is just my opinion and what I think when I see this type of article come up, because really we aren't the government and we aren't in church kids.
Well that's just the thing! I'm trying to be the solution! I think I responded in a professional, mannered way with real ways of getting these issues fixed. I don't think I brought any unnecessary attention to it. If I did, that certainly wasn't my intention.
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On June 30 2012 13:24 rkffhk wrote:
Outstanding thread. I'm very happy that you put forth the effort to make this and I'm really happy that I don't watch that show.
I think Avilo got shafted hard and I'm pissed at everyone there who wasn't fair to him.
QXC got a shit ton of more respect from me out of this, but I kind of wish that he had left the show as well after Avilo was removed in protest of the shit that just went down. I can't blame him for being quiet about it, though.
Thank you very much! I am really happy that my work didn't go unnoticed!!! =)
Avilo clearly got shafted and it's really bad news to bring down the entire SOTG for it, which is something else that I should have mentioned that I don't want to do. Instead, focus on QXC who is amazing! Leaving the show would have just pissed off everyone else as well. I'm glad he remained so calm, cool, and collected!
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On June 30 2012 14:03 Rhyinn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:20 Ireniicus wrote:On June 30 2012 13:13 yourteam wrote:
the crux of your post is built around this idea that at some earlier point in time SOTG was a better, more mannered show.
At no point in your post did I see any justification for this. The only decline related to SOTG have been the tournament results of its key players. I disagree. It started going sour Q4 2011. It is why Day9 left. I am beginning to think this show has run its course. Realtalk is pretty good and we have ITG. the Executives etc. We need new more mature personalities representing our community. Should SotG continue as it is? Poll: Should SotG be axed?No, but Incontrol should depart (50) 40% No, its the best SC show (41) 33% Yes, the show has run its course (21) 17% (7) 6% (6) 5% 125 total votes Your vote: Should SotG be axed? (Vote): No, its the best SC show
(Vote): Yes, the show has run its course
(Vote): No, but Incontrol should depart
(Vote):
(Vote):
That's a really awesome post. Unfortunately, I am largely unfamiliar with the rest of these shows! I wish I could give my opinion on them. I really wish that I could be the producer of a legit podcast or TV show or something with SC! haha The amount of professionalism has to match the amount of viewers you wish to obtain. If you want mediocrity, then be semi-professional I guess. I strongly disagree with this assertion. Being unprofessional does not degrade the quality of anything. In fact, sometimes I think professionalism is what degrades the quality. If I had to sacrifice professionalism for entertainment value I would absolutely every time. Anyone else who thinks differently has some very strange priorities
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Okay. This is actually getting out of hand.
People who didn't like this part of this episode of the show: OKAY, it was a bad part of one episode. Chill out! I'm sure they know what they shouldn't do for next time by now. It's over...
Professional this, morally wrong that. Stop making such a big deal out of it. It was awkward and uncomfortable. We get it. >.<
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On June 30 2012 14:04 draumr wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:49 VirgilSC2 wrote:
So, to everyone justifying how they treated Avilo on SotG with the fact that he has a reputation of whining about imbalance, should they not treat IdrA the same way?
I've heard IdrA whine about Protoss so many times, even when Zerg is actually widely considered to be stronger in the match-up than Protoss is. Does that make it alright to mock him like they mocked Avilo?
It's pretty despicable to treat a guest like that on ANY show. They could have been mature about it, brought him on, let him say his piece on TvZ/ZvT, politely tell him his time was up and then end the segment, giving a really unknown player a bit of a popularity boost as the same time as fostering discussion. Instead they bring him on the show, mock and harass him (as well as Luckyfool, another NA player with some good insight), then hang up on him. Very immature. Lets be honest, Idra was and still is mocked like that. He's been mocked for it for so long that it isn't even an insult anymore, rather a jest. If you watch the Unborrowed thing EG did even Thorzain joked about Idra's hate for Protoss. If you watch almost any show Idra is on someone will mention it at least once. The difference is Idra is a known player so people don't consider it bullying, unlike Avilo is is a borderline unknown. It was stupid to bring Avilo on. It was stupid for Avilo to want to come on. He wanted to cause shit, as shown by his first comments. He was also unreasonable with his arguments, but you could say that was just the pressure of thousands of people watching him while he knew what the situation was. A lot of people act like Avilo coming on was to discuss balance. He wasn't. It was never intended to be a balance discussion. JP might not have known, but Geoff wanted Avilo on so Avilo would piss off Idra. QXC and Tyler knew, you could tell by how they were acting the from the moment JP said he was going to be on. JP had never intended for Avilo to come on the show, it was only Geoff asking him to do it that caused it. So really, people need to stop acting like bringing him on and having a legit discussion should have happened, because it was never going to happen. They should be mad that he was brought on as an entertainment point. In the future they should stop bringing unplanned guests on. So far they are shooting 0/2 with it ending well. This was arguably the best show they've had all year, up until the Avilo moment.
Clearly, Idra nor Incontrol wanted to discuss balance with Avilo. Nothing can work if only 1 of the 2 sides are working.
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On June 30 2012 14:05 blamekilly wrote:
make a reddit thread and email their sponsors a nasty letter about not buying their crap because of this!
Can I inquire to who your sponsors are so I can tell about your crappy post and how I will no longer buy their items because of it.
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Should get rid of Incontrol who apparently thinks hes good enough/smart enough to talk down to other people when he hasn't posted a good result in god knows how long.
Idra is just being Idra obviously. Guy has always acted so arrogant and self-righteous towards people below him, then anyone that is on a decent team gets his respect.
I seriously cannot stand how pathetic those two guys were on SotG.
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On June 30 2012 13:27 Aulisemia wrote:
Disrespecting someone who comes on your show is quite unprofessional. As people have said, they could have at the very least ended the conversation better by cutting Avilo off and thanking him for coming on.
I give props to QXC for acting reasonably professionally, but it was a bit disheartening to see Incontrol and Idra acting like a couple of sophmores teasing a freshman. SotG has and will always be a very narrow slice of the SC2 scene. It's completely dominated by their regulars and if you aren't from that circle your opinion doesn't really matter to them. I imagine it's like trying to interview with Fox News, the information is so tightly controlled and they have no problems dumping all over you to get a reaction before they cut you off.
Yes, you can think of it like your opinion doesn't matter to them if you are not in that circle already. Which is a real shame, because there are some brilliant minds on that show, I just wish that they acted a tad differently towards guests.
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On June 30 2012 13:28 OneBaseKing wrote:
What did Avilo do previously? Did he do something that angered the SC2 community?
I'm not 100% on this, but I think that he and Idra had a heated argument before the interview even happened.
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The reason this community behavior is going backwards is that any time any slight drama pops up, there will be 10 posts on reddit, a 5000 word essay post, and dozens of overly sensitive people whining about extremely minor situations. I'm sure we're going to have another thread or two about this situation at least, a long introspection thread or two on how esports is declining, probably a nice thread linking this to the failure of the foreign scene to compete with Korea, and so on. Get over it, this literally affects nothing, unless a bunch of people whine to EG's sponsors and MLG and then a couple vapid, meaningless apologies are issued from the pillars of SotG. This is by far one of the most mannered communities on the internet, yet any time anything remotely sensitive happens there's a ridiculous shitstorm.
Can't wait until another minor community figure calls someone a homophobic slur and there's a 20 page thread on it!
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On June 30 2012 13:49 TheDraken wrote:
most important question of this thread: who the fuck cares?
i'm sick of these witch hunts people try to start. people like the OP are only trying to stir up drama. let SOTG be what it is, if you don't like it, don't watch it. but coming on here trying to criticize teams for not being upright gentlemen is retarded. it's a fucking videogame.
This.
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On June 30 2012 13:30 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:28 OneBaseKing wrote:
What did Avilo do previously? Did he do something that angered the SC2 community? He's known to be a TvZ/TvP whiner without any particularly amazing results. edit: since I grabbed the next page I'll use this page to say that this thread is ridiculous. Not just the whole '1 bad example = SC COMMUNITY IS GOING BACKWARDS' but people that assume they somehow have the power to 'axe SOTG' or whatever. Jesus fucking christ have some common sense people.
I don't want to axe SOTG! That's not my intention at all! My intention was to let them know that they must learn from this experience and grow from it. If they want to be an amazing podcast that centers around the best in the SC community, they must act like it...to everyone - no matter how good or what team they play for.
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On June 30 2012 14:10 Rhyinn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:28 OneBaseKing wrote:
What did Avilo do previously? Did he do something that angered the SC2 community? I'm not 100% on this, but I think that he and Idra had a heated argument before the interview even happened. Avilo has a history of balance whining. IIRC, he was even whining about TvX back in the days of the GSTvTL
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On June 30 2012 13:30 hoivenmayven wrote:
This should probably be contained in the SoTG thread, no? Already exploded there why create two threads that will devolve into balance threads.
I am sorry, I didn't know that there was a SOTG thread already. I'm quite new to TL.net =)
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On June 30 2012 13:31 cmizzles wrote:
Idra has every right to dismiss everything avilo and luckyfool have to say for the simple fact that they don't play starcraft 2 at the highest level. No matter what counter arguments Idra makes here, avilo is going to argue that it can't be done, when in actuality it just can't be done BY HIM. I'm not sure why avilo even wanted to go on the show when it was quite obvious that they were making fun of him, and were not going to take him seriously.
Idra had every right to argue with Avilo, which he did. No one has the right to dismiss everything someone says about the game of SC2. Avilo said it himself, which I agree with..."Just because you're not the best, doesn't mean you can't bring things to the game." My whole point of the article was to teach them how to learn from this experience and not make fun of their guests.
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I am a huge fan of incontrol but yea this episode was really hard for me to watch.(note: I actually don't like Avilo cause of his balance whines) But Idra and incontrol acted like asses to avilo and it was quite annoy.
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I like Idra's BM in game, who honestly does not get mad when you are losing. I have no problem him calling people bad etc. But out of game in the real world it wouldn't hurt for him to shape up when having a conversation with another person. I felt the same way when I was watching the stream. InControl's behavior was also disapointing. Who wants to go on a show where someone you are wanting to debate with decides to take it out on you personally and put you down for having an opinion.
QXC was amazing, great job man.
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I'm glad you put up the transcript since I didn't watch the show that episode. But if the transcript is correct. Oh my god SOTG... oh my god. Nobody deserves to be treated this way. Avilo brought up good points and despite him clearly not being the best at arguing and getting a point across there was no need for this kind of treatment. Shame on you InControl, Idra and JP. Props to QXC for being awesome and trying to support him when he clearly was having difficulties.
No need to be so disrespectful to someone, particularly when he's a guest. This is seriously surprising, even coming from gamers.
I will agree this is just stirring up drama though, but if you put up a show for people to watch, you gotta understand people are gonna talk about it.
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On June 30 2012 13:39 Chaggi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:31 cmizzles wrote:
Idra has every right to dismiss everything avilo and luckyfool have to say for the simple fact that they don't play starcraft 2 at the highest level. No matter what counter arguments Idra makes here, avilo is going to argue that it can't be done, when in actuality it just can't be done BY HIM. I'm not sure why avilo even wanted to go on the show when it was quite obvious that they were making fun of him, and were not going to take him seriously. You can make the same argument. Idra isn't even close to the same level as DRG, Symbol, Nestea or even Stephano. And even DRG is saying how strong Zerg are right now and that this is his chance to win a GSL. And it's not just Avilo saying this, MKP, MMA, MVP all have expressed concerns on how Zerg is AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL.
I agree, but at least he competes against them regularly, where as avilo does not even COMPETE at the highest level. Even if avilo is simply echoing the thoughts of someone like an MKP or MMA, Idra discussing strategy with him is completely useless because he would be talking about strategies that Avilo can't properly execute and thus can't comment on their effectiveness. If MMA came on the show and told Idra, no this strategy doesn't work, his argument has actual merit. There is no difference having Avilo discuss balance with Idra than having a silver leaguer do it.
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On June 30 2012 14:14 Rhyinn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:31 cmizzles wrote:
Idra has every right to dismiss everything avilo and luckyfool have to say for the simple fact that they don't play starcraft 2 at the highest level. No matter what counter arguments Idra makes here, avilo is going to argue that it can't be done, when in actuality it just can't be done BY HIM. I'm not sure why avilo even wanted to go on the show when it was quite obvious that they were making fun of him, and were not going to take him seriously. Idra had every right to argue with Avilo, which he did. No one has the right to dismiss everything someone says about the game of SC2. Avilo said it himself, which I agree with..."Just because you're not the best, doesn't mean you can't bring things to the game." My whole point of the article was to teach them how to learn from this experience and not make fun of their guests.
You realize that the "fair and balanced" approach is what has turned modern news into pure shit, right? Not all opinions are created equal. Not all opinions deserve equal air time or even acknowledgement. My only problem with SotG is the fact that Avilo had no business being on the podcast to begin with because he deserves no additional soap boxes to stand on; that is also the only lesson they hopefully learned from this.... that and to not listen to the stream monsters. Ever.
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EPT
