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On June 30 2012 14:12 rockon1215 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 14:10 Rhyinn wrote:On June 30 2012 13:28 OneBaseKing wrote:
What did Avilo do previously? Did he do something that angered the SC2 community? I'm not 100% on this, but I think that he and Idra had a heated argument before the interview even happened. Avilo has a history of balance whining. IIRC, he was even whining about TvX back in the days of the GSTvTL
And Idra doesn't?
He bitched about Terran, then Protoss, then Terran, and then Protoss again. Only difference is that Idra has notable achievements compared to avilo.
But that doesn't mean you get to dismiss every point someone makes in such a shitty fashion. Idra can be part of his little team and live in their gaming house all he wants, point doesn't change that he acts like a stuck-up, childish, brat sometimes.
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This thread is really not necessary. Extending drama. The sc2 community sure loves 'em.
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On June 30 2012 14:17 cmizzles wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:39 Chaggi wrote:On June 30 2012 13:31 cmizzles wrote:
Idra has every right to dismiss everything avilo and luckyfool have to say for the simple fact that they don't play starcraft 2 at the highest level. No matter what counter arguments Idra makes here, avilo is going to argue that it can't be done, when in actuality it just can't be done BY HIM. I'm not sure why avilo even wanted to go on the show when it was quite obvious that they were making fun of him, and were not going to take him seriously. You can make the same argument. Idra isn't even close to the same level as DRG, Symbol, Nestea or even Stephano. And even DRG is saying how strong Zerg are right now and that this is his chance to win a GSL. And it's not just Avilo saying this, MKP, MMA, MVP all have expressed concerns on how Zerg is AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL. I agree, but at least he competes against them regularly, where as avilo does not even COMPETE at the highest level. Even if avilo is simply echoing the thoughts of someone like an MKP or MMA, Idra discussing strategy with him is completely useless because he would be talking about strategies that Avilo can't properly execute and thus can't comment on their effectiveness. If MMA came on the show and told Idra, no this strategy doesn't work, his argument has actual merit. There is no difference having Avilo discuss balance with Idra than having a silver leaguer do it.
BM time from me, but MMA could counter pretty much any argument IdrA may have by saying "look man, I beat you by killing my own CC, 'nuff said."
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On June 30 2012 13:33 fraktoasters wrote:
This whole thing is fucking disgusting and I can't believe you put so much time and effort into something just because people on SoTG acted like human beings. You're right, SC Behavior is going backwards because instead of actually trying to act like mature thinking adults, there are idiots on this forum that feel the need to bash people and try to hurt the scene for any little reason you can think of. Being rude to people is so fucking small and irrelevant and literally no one in the world but you losers would give a fuck.
Of course they acted like human beings...disrespectful human beings. You are the only person who posts on here and you are very upset at what? "Us losers" who care about the community and it's image?!
I AM a mature thinking adult who posts legit ways of dealing with people exactly like you! You are the exact thing that I am trying to get rid of in this community. I am not trying to hurt the scene for any "little reason" I can think of, I'm actually trying to do the complete opposite. You didn't even read the article did you?
Being rude to other players is not small and definitely not irrelevant.
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On June 30 2012 14:18 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 14:12 rockon1215 wrote:On June 30 2012 14:10 Rhyinn wrote:On June 30 2012 13:28 OneBaseKing wrote:
What did Avilo do previously? Did he do something that angered the SC2 community? I'm not 100% on this, but I think that he and Idra had a heated argument before the interview even happened. Avilo has a history of balance whining. IIRC, he was even whining about TvX back in the days of the GSTvTL And Idra doesn't? He bitched about Terran, then Protoss, then Terran, and then Protoss again. Only difference is that Idra has notable achievements compared to avilo. But that doesn't mean you get to dismiss every point someone makes in such a shitty fashion. Idra can be part of his little team and live in their gaming house all he wants, point doesn't change that he acts like a stuck-up, childish, brat sometimes.
idra has a history of being one of the best western players both in bw and sc2
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On June 30 2012 13:34 HolyArrow wrote:
Wow dude, props for all the effort that OP took.
Thank you so much! That means a lot! =)
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On June 30 2012 13:36 SwizzY wrote:
It's their show, it garners viewers like everyone complaining in this thread, and if you don't like it, stop watching.
There is no Esports internet stream commissioning board that is going to shut down SotG because of a spat like this. Nor would I want there to be one anyways.
Idra is a thick, arrogant, BM guy, but at the end of the day he's one of SotG main members. The JP/Incontrol/Idra trio can do whatever the hell they want on their show.
And to think, I thought the Esports witch hunt metaphor was an exaggeration.
I'm not out to witch hunt them. I'm not out to tell them how to act on their show, either. I thought I had made that clear in the post?!
All I am saying is that you can't be an important part of the scene and act like they did.
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On June 30 2012 13:37 TENTHST wrote:
Avilo was brought onto the show for comedic purposes. Though it was under the guise of a "balance discussion", I'm fairly certain that JP and Idra and everyone else knew that up front that nothing good was going to come from it.
QXC was there to represent the Terran viewpoint, not Avilo.
The way he was treated was anything but comedic. That part is obvious.
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Here is how I viewed this issue. I use the word issue lightly as a way to refer to this as I can't figure out a word that works well for this. I see that everyone is a bit overboard in every direction. QXC and Avilo did great mind you, but I think they need to realize that this is how Greg is publicly. He is a player, not a community pleaser. That being said, JP definitely could have handled it better, however in his defence (and everyone else' for that matter) this show isn't supposed to be serious. There was a better way to do it, and the choice was made. Additionally they went from reasonably respectful to disrespecting their guest.
Now, on the offensive, Avilo was trying to make an argument, and he was contributing nicely, just to be talked down on because he's not GM. That is irrelevant, because he's not GM doesn't mean shit, he could be GM, he could be Bronze, but if he has the knowledge, he can apply knowledge, the only thing he can't really say unless backed up by numbering and possibilities is can or can't. Now, Avilo did interrupt Greg, a lot, and that's rude, but a simple "oh sorry" is a good response, the reaction from Greg had to be expected from him just as how he is. Now, that being said, Avilo could definitely have organized his arguments better and stopped restating things.
This was just bad chemistry on everyone's part, Greg had a distaste for Avilo. Avilo didn't have the same level of knowledge Greg has. Geoff, JP, and Tyler are kinda cliquey as they do this together regularly. They are close friends, in turn they will back each other up. QXC handled this diplomatically, but I'm sure it's just how he is. He isn't as close to all of them as they are to each other, so things are different.
This is both good and bad for the show, they get further exposure, and more viewers for those who like this shit, and lose a few for those who don't, either way the names get another reference for people to remember them.
TLDR: Don't bother inviting people you know won't work out. If you do, be neutral. Additionally, the show is still good, and entertaining. This is actually pulling in more exposure.
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On June 30 2012 14:20 Rhyinn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:33 fraktoasters wrote:
This whole thing is fucking disgusting and I can't believe you put so much time and effort into something just because people on SoTG acted like human beings. You're right, SC Behavior is going backwards because instead of actually trying to act like mature thinking adults, there are idiots on this forum that feel the need to bash people and try to hurt the scene for any little reason you can think of. Being rude to people is so fucking small and irrelevant and literally no one in the world but you losers would give a fuck.
Of course they acted like human beings...disrespectful human beings. You are the only person who posts on here and you are very upset at what? "Us losers" who care about the community and it's image?! I AM a mature thinking adult who posts legit ways of dealing with people exactly like you! You are the exact thing that I am trying to get rid of in this community. I am not trying to hurt the scene for any "little reason" I can think of, I'm actually trying to do the complete opposite. You didn't even read the article did you? Being rude to other players is not small and definitely not irrelevant.
The funny thing about people who call themselves mature, is that they assume the way they behave is the superior and more "adult" way of acting. You are not a "mature thinking adult", you are a person with your opinion on how a community full of human beings should act, on a show known for sometimes being a bit outrageous, with community figures such as Incontrol and IdrA that are known to act in a way that offended "mature thinking adults" such as yourself.
Step out into the real world, where there is constant shit talking in real sports, all communities have dissent, people mock others, people form cliques, etc. By saying you want SotG to act in a "mature" and "professional" manner, you really mean that you want everyone to act like polite robots that fit your image of how people should properly behave. You literally just spent probably an hour writing out that transcript and the rest of the original thread to trash an online video game podcast and you consider yourself a mature adult attempting to help out the scene?
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I was really disappointed in the SOTG crew for being so disrespectful to a fellow community member who's trying to have a legitimate discussion, whether he's right or whether he's making bad points. Having no basic respect for someone who you invited to talk on *your show* just shows how immature I think some of the cast can be. When someone I don't like interrupts me, I don't tell them to "shut the fuck up" because I'm trying to maintain some kind of bad boy image.
I'm not here to crucify JP, Idra, or Incontrol, but I just want to say that I thought you guys would be more respectable and respectful people. Obviously you guys aren't perfect, but when your show is one of the most watched talk shows about eSports and SC2, it reflects very badly on the community when you can't show basic human decency towards your own guests.
I hope you guys have the foresight to not invite people on in the future who Idra doesn't respect.
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I think we have different ideas as to what SOTG is and what roles it is there to fufill. When I tune in to SOTG I just want to feel like I'm hanging out with "the guys" for a little while and laugh at their jokes. "Serious" content and in-depth analysis is good on top of the humour. Why can't "serious" content be discussed while making jokes?
So much of the hate on SOTG seems to stem from the idea that they prioritize silly jokes and stories over hard analysis, but that fine to me. In fact, I want them to prioritize it that way
I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. But the way Avilo was treated wasn't about "jokes." They talked about serious balance issues and tried to make an episode with that.
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On June 30 2012 14:20 omnic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 14:18 Cloud9157 wrote:On June 30 2012 14:12 rockon1215 wrote:On June 30 2012 14:10 Rhyinn wrote:On June 30 2012 13:28 OneBaseKing wrote:
What did Avilo do previously? Did he do something that angered the SC2 community? I'm not 100% on this, but I think that he and Idra had a heated argument before the interview even happened. Avilo has a history of balance whining. IIRC, he was even whining about TvX back in the days of the GSTvTL And Idra doesn't? He bitched about Terran, then Protoss, then Terran, and then Protoss again. Only difference is that Idra has notable achievements compared to avilo. But that doesn't mean you get to dismiss every point someone makes in such a shitty fashion. Idra can be part of his little team and live in their gaming house all he wants, point doesn't change that he acts like a stuck-up, childish, brat sometimes. idra has a history of being one of the best western players both in bw and sc2
Your point? Or did you just want to pretty much re-state what I typed in the first part?
On June 30 2012 14:25 Heavenlee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 14:20 Rhyinn wrote:On June 30 2012 13:33 fraktoasters wrote:
This whole thing is fucking disgusting and I can't believe you put so much time and effort into something just because people on SoTG acted like human beings. You're right, SC Behavior is going backwards because instead of actually trying to act like mature thinking adults, there are idiots on this forum that feel the need to bash people and try to hurt the scene for any little reason you can think of. Being rude to people is so fucking small and irrelevant and literally no one in the world but you losers would give a fuck.
Of course they acted like human beings...disrespectful human beings. You are the only person who posts on here and you are very upset at what? "Us losers" who care about the community and it's image?! I AM a mature thinking adult who posts legit ways of dealing with people exactly like you! You are the exact thing that I am trying to get rid of in this community. I am not trying to hurt the scene for any "little reason" I can think of, I'm actually trying to do the complete opposite. You didn't even read the article did you? Being rude to other players is not small and definitely not irrelevant. The funny thing about people who call themselves mature, is that they assume the way they behave is the superior and more "adult" way of acting. You are not a "mature thinking adult", you are a person with your opinion on how a community full of human beings should act, on a show known for sometimes being a bit outrageous, with community figures such as Incontrol and IdrA that are known to act in a way that offended "mature thinking adults" such as yourself. Step out into the real world, where there is constant shit talking in real sports, all communities have dissent, people mock others, people form cliques, etc. By saying you want SotG to act in a "mature" and "professional" manner, you really mean that you want everyone to act like polite robots that fit your image of how people should properly behave. You literally just spent probably an hour writing out that transcript and the rest of the original thread to trash an online video game podcast and you consider yourself a mature adult attempting to help out the scene?
Key thing you're missing here is that Idra said it right to avilo in person. No one quoted this, it came straight from the horse's mouth.
Since when is being respectful and a bit tolerant to someone's face an opinion? I'm pretty sure everyone wouldn't say half the shit they say about someone to their face unless called out on it. Not the case, considering avilo did 0 to provoke any of them.
I'd consider him helping the scene. "Asking professionals to act a bit like professionals to everyone". Holy shit, that must be an outrageous request.
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On June 30 2012 13:40 serge wrote:
I used to think poorly of the podcast, but now I've changed my mind. Thanks OP!!!
STAY STRONG IDRA, INCONTROLL. OUR HEARTS ARE WITH YOU!
Haters gonna hate.
My mind has officially been blown...
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Not really the appropriate title, but whatever. you live you learn. next time you put a title, make it exactly how it is.
On Topic: I understand why JP wanted to drop Avilo, but its a discussion show. Everybody should be able to give their opinion without being call dropped. The discussion did get quite out of hand, but i think muting either one of them (mostly greg) would of been a better idea.
And also, you don't have to make a goddamned thread for every fucking minuscule thing that happens in the scene. Just make a long post in another thread thats related, and thats that. Excessive drama isnt good for the scene.
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On June 30 2012 14:26 Cloud9157 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 14:20 omnic wrote:On June 30 2012 14:18 Cloud9157 wrote:On June 30 2012 14:12 rockon1215 wrote:On June 30 2012 14:10 Rhyinn wrote:On June 30 2012 13:28 OneBaseKing wrote:
What did Avilo do previously? Did he do something that angered the SC2 community? I'm not 100% on this, but I think that he and Idra had a heated argument before the interview even happened. Avilo has a history of balance whining. IIRC, he was even whining about TvX back in the days of the GSTvTL And Idra doesn't? He bitched about Terran, then Protoss, then Terran, and then Protoss again. Only difference is that Idra has notable achievements compared to avilo. But that doesn't mean you get to dismiss every point someone makes in such a shitty fashion. Idra can be part of his little team and live in their gaming house all he wants, point doesn't change that he acts like a stuck-up, childish, brat sometimes. idra has a history of being one of the best western players both in bw and sc2 Your point? Or did you just want to pretty much re-state what I typed in the first part?
If the top players in a community don't have the ability to bitch about what they consider an in game imbalance then nobody does. Does this really need to be spelled out for you?
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On June 30 2012 13:42 RUFinalBoss wrote:
EG i think has been making some misteps latly, but this article i think is centered aggreivly against them, avilo is just as noteworthy as QXC or whoever else. so dont blatently disrespect him. WHAT TICKED ME OFF WAS THE COMMENTS ON LUCKYFOOL. Blatent disrespect, and he IS SUCH a contributer to the sc2 scene. and idra smh
I thought the same thing, without even knowing luckyfool. I think that anyone who tries their hardest to make SC2 the best is worth the time. smh as well.
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On June 30 2012 13:43 TRaFFiC wrote:
Cool transcription. Didn't get too watch it and can imagine being there :D
haha thanks. worked really hard on it! =)
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On June 30 2012 14:25 Heavenlee wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 14:20 Rhyinn wrote:On June 30 2012 13:33 fraktoasters wrote:
This whole thing is fucking disgusting and I can't believe you put so much time and effort into something just because people on SoTG acted like human beings. You're right, SC Behavior is going backwards because instead of actually trying to act like mature thinking adults, there are idiots on this forum that feel the need to bash people and try to hurt the scene for any little reason you can think of. Being rude to people is so fucking small and irrelevant and literally no one in the world but you losers would give a fuck.
Of course they acted like human beings...disrespectful human beings. You are the only person who posts on here and you are very upset at what? "Us losers" who care about the community and it's image?! I AM a mature thinking adult who posts legit ways of dealing with people exactly like you! You are the exact thing that I am trying to get rid of in this community. I am not trying to hurt the scene for any "little reason" I can think of, I'm actually trying to do the complete opposite. You didn't even read the article did you? Being rude to other players is not small and definitely not irrelevant. The funny thing about people who call themselves mature, is that they assume the way they behave is the superior and more "adult" way of acting. You are not a "mature thinking adult", you are a person with your opinion on how a community full of human beings should act, on a show known for sometimes being a bit outrageous, with community figures such as Incontrol and IdrA that are known to act in a way that offended "mature thinking adults" such as yourself. Step out into the real world, where there is constant shit talking in real sports, all communities have dissent, people mock others, people form cliques, etc. By saying you want SotG to act in a "mature" and "professional" manner, you really mean that you want everyone to act like polite robots that fit your image of how people should properly behave. You literally just spent probably an hour writing out that transcript and the rest of the original thread to trash an online video game podcast and you consider yourself a mature adult attempting to help out the scene?
So what you mean is that people in the real world argue by insulting people who aren't their friends and gangbanging on them?
Holy shit my real world must be a parallel universe or something. I insult the fuck out of my friends when I argue with them, if our friendship regularly involves such treatment. Someone who isn't my friend who I'm having an argument with? Why the flying fuck would I insult him and call him "imbecile" "fucker" among other disrespectful stuff? That's just rude.
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On June 30 2012 14:14 Rhyinn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2012 13:31 cmizzles wrote:
Idra has every right to dismiss everything avilo and luckyfool have to say for the simple fact that they don't play starcraft 2 at the highest level. No matter what counter arguments Idra makes here, avilo is going to argue that it can't be done, when in actuality it just can't be done BY HIM. I'm not sure why avilo even wanted to go on the show when it was quite obvious that they were making fun of him, and were not going to take him seriously. Idra had every right to argue with Avilo, which he did. No one has the right to dismiss everything someone says about the game of SC2. Avilo said it himself, which I agree with..."Just because you're not the best, doesn't mean you can't bring things to the game." My whole point of the article was to teach them how to learn from this experience and not make fun of their guests.
Well, if you're not the best, it does mean that whatever you have to say, or whatever idea you have, isn't all that relevant to professional level balance discussion because you haven't competed in professional level competition. Do you think pro sports coaches read the newspaper to find out what strategies sportswriters think will work?
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EPT
