EPTOn June 30 2012 13:13 Wildmoon wrote:
I am disguted by how rude they were toward Avilo.
I am disguted by how rude they were toward Avilo.
So was I.
SC Behavior Going Backward, Instead of Forward - Page 5
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Rhyinn
United States51 Posts
So was I. | ||
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Oiseaux
United States676 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:46 HolyArrow wrote: The way I see it, avilo is a very mediocre player (and I use the word "mediocre" generously here - in the big picture, he's virtually a nobody) who is in a completely different league under IdrA or QXC. Not that I think IdrA or QXC are amazingly good, but they're certainly way better than avilo. And given that his skill is so relatively mediocre, I find it even sillier that he balance whines so much. Not to mention that his whining when Terran was strong certainly detracts from his credibility when he whines during Terran's weak period. And to top it all off, he takes it to the LR threads and has been temp banned for doing it so much. Furthermore, his points on SotG were weak, muddled in generalities and oversimplifications. Going by this line of reasoning, SotG shouldn't have even brought him on in the first place because there would simply be no reason to bring him on. But that then leads to the reason as to why he was brought on, and that was to simply shit on him. | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
This belong in the SotG thread, and the transcript should probably be in spoilers to avoid eye strain, imo. As to the topic at hand, I really felt Tyler described the situation perfectly, and had a really appropriate response. Check the SotG thread. | ||
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MaestroSC
United States2073 Posts
seriously people are entitled to have their opinions and to say them.... the crying and getting our feelings hurt over honesty is mind numbingly boring... people like this are begging for a scene where noone says anything but "gg" and "thank you to my sponsors and fans" because they get hunted down for having any opinions... | ||
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OtoshimonoU
United States509 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:43 HotGlueGun wrote: He has been whining about balance since the beta (in the most annoying ways possible). When he plays IdrA on ladder he does stupid turtle builds just to waste IdrA's time (mass PF/tank in which he has no chance of whining but results in 40min game). He has been criticizing SotG and Incontrol recently in the TL Thread. People who do not closely follow NA scene/players may think he is some innocent player who did nothing deserve his treatment on SotG (not saying the SotG hosts were justified in their actions), but there is a reason Greg lost his temper so quickly. It's funny because turtling is his strats against zergs. Read the thread. Thank you very much OP. It was just an awful show, nothing else to say. | ||
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NotAPro
Canada146 Posts
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Rhyinn
United States51 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:16 MetalPanda wrote: Disrespect isn't that bad of a thing as you might subject, I think. You can't like or respect everyone. It was unprofessional, yes, but not at a dramatic point. SOTG isn't the news nor is it mainstream at all. There's not a lot restraining Idra to not say ''shut the fuck up'' to someone you hate that cuts you off when talking (taking his perspective on what happened), besides maybe sponsors, but even then. Idra just really dislikes Avilo, it's just how it is, it was destined to be explosive. The decision to call Avilo knowing all this was worse than the result. This to me is just the usual e-sports drama. This to you is usual e-sports behavior?! Then I for one don't want to be a part of e-sports. Call it unprofessional or disrespect, I don't care. The fact that you go on a show about SC and call another player a fucking imbecile and tell him to shut the fuck up is mind-blowing to me. For people to sponsor that kind of behavior is also just as mind-blowing. If this was any other major sport, that player would be issuing an apology. | ||
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OtoshimonoU
United States509 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:49 PiGStarcraft wrote: Anyone who hasn't experienced Avilo's blatant BM, whining and idiocy (not just in SC2 but for many years in other RTS too) probably shares the view of the OP. I agree they should have handled it better but the fact that it's Avilo makes me not really give a shit. He's one of the few progamers who will regularly msg opponents after tournament matches to call them bad and accuse their race of being overpowered. Are you sure you're not talking about Idra? | ||
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: So, to everyone justifying how they treated Avilo on SotG with the fact that he has a reputation of whining about imbalance, should they not treat IdrA the same way? I've heard IdrA whine about Protoss so many times, even when Zerg is actually widely considered to be stronger in the match-up than Protoss is. Does that make it alright to mock him like they mocked Avilo? It's pretty despicable to treat a guest like that on ANY show. They could have been mature about it, brought him on, let him say his piece on TvZ/ZvT, politely tell him his time was up and then end the segment, giving a really unknown player a bit of a popularity boost as the same time as fostering discussion. Instead they bring him on the show, mock and harass him (as well as Luckyfool, another NA player with some good insight), then hang up on him. Very immature. I'm not saying it was right to treat him like that, but the way the world works is that IdrA is extremely popular, so he can do what he wants without too many repercussions. avilo doesn't have the luxury of such popularity, so if he annoys people with constant balance whining, there really isn't much to compensate, and thus, he'll become disliked. Not to mention that IdrA's BM/balance whining is often at least paired with dry humor, so it's better received. | ||
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Oiseaux
United States676 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: So, to everyone justifying how they treated Avilo on SotG with the fact that he has a reputation of whining about imbalance, should they not treat IdrA the same way? I've heard IdrA whine about Protoss so many times, even when Zerg is actually widely considered to be stronger in the match-up than Protoss is. Does that make it alright to mock him like they mocked Avilo? It's pretty despicable to treat a guest like that on ANY show. They could have been mature about it, brought him on, let him say his piece on TvZ/ZvT, politely tell him his time was up and then end the segment, giving a really unknown player a bit of a popularity boost as the same time as fostering discussion. Instead they bring him on the show, mock and harass him (as well as Luckyfool, another NA player with some good insight), then hang up on him. Very immature. Well said Virgil, glad to see a legit name with that opinion. | ||
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striderxxx
Canada443 Posts
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HolyArrow
United States7116 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:50 Oiseaux wrote: Going by this line of reasoning, SotG shouldn't have even brought him on in the first place because there would simply be no reason to bring him on. But that then leads to the reason as to why he was brought on, and that was to simply shit on him. I heard that he wanted to be on. It's not like he was invited and generously decided to grace them with his presence. Didn't Incontrol mention that he was asking to be put on the show? The way I see it, he requested that they include him, so they did, and then he proceeded to get shit on. He didn't deserve to have that happen to him but he did put himself into that situation. It's clear that IdrA and perhaps the rest of the cast don't really like avilo much, so it was a pretty stupid move for him to ask to be put on the show. It's like asking to hang out with a group of people who all dislike you. Clearly, things won't end well. | ||
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Rhyinn
United States51 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:18 AngryFarmer wrote: Thx for the transcript. I didn't watch the show so I couldn't properly judge their behaviors but after reading I think it was a bit unfair to Avilo. I feel like they invited him on the show but didn't actually want to listen to any of his input. I also feel like the group had too much pro Idra bias so whatever his anger resulted in the other members following along. It wasn't really a discussion at that point The entire show was pro-Idra. Even QXC was being careful not to step on Idra's toes a little bit. It was never a discussion with Avilo and I feel like it could have been a really really good argument about the queen buff. | ||
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OtoshimonoU
United States509 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:54 HolyArrow wrote: I heard that he wanted to be on. It's not like he was invited and generously decided to grace them with his presence. Didn't Incontrol mention that he was asking to be put on the show? I think you're not understanding his point. He was asked to be put in. They don't like Avilo, thus, they had no reason to invite him to the show other than to mock him. | ||
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blamekilly
466 Posts
I enjoyed the transcript because I probably wouldnt have watched the video. I thought that Idra was losing the argument, contradicted himself and acked like an ass hole when he knew he wasn't winning. There's really no way to punish their behavior besides going to the extreme and emailing their sponsors, intel, kingston, steelseries, sapphire, that's why they continue to act like they're above everyone else and act like little kids. | ||
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Oiseaux
United States676 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:54 HolyArrow wrote: I heard that he wanted to be on. It's not like he was invited and generously decided to grace them with his presence. Didn't Incontrol mention that he was asking to be put on the show? I'm sorry, but I'm missing the part where Avilo asked to be on the show so he could be mocked. | ||
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Rhyinn
United States51 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:18 PlacidPanda wrote: Mind you, i have no love for Avilo, i love Geoff, and I love Sotg. I even enjoy IdrA from time to time, but this was reminiscent of an O'Reilly interview, if you want to be considered the most important podcast in starcraft 2, you have to uphold some professionalism, try to remain unbiased, i dont care if you badmouth him before or after, but in the pseudo interview you have to respect everyone so your VIEWERS can decide for themselves. Hope SotG apologizes or something, because it was a bit immature. That's a great take! I have no prior knowledge of Avilo before watching this episode and I love SOTG and everyone on it! Even Idra gets me sometimes with his laugh. But I completely agree with upholding some sort of professionalism. You have to if you want to be considered an important part in the SC community. | ||
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Gentso
United States2218 Posts
Personally, I feel it's really unhealthy for progamers to be a part of communities like Team Liquid. I've seen pro gamers who worry way too much about what the community thinks about them, get bloated egos, take advantage of people, etc. In the case of this show, the members of the show probably felt that because they were more prominent figures within the community they don't need to respect or at least show respect on the show. It happens time and time again, and the sad part it's eventually covered up with some BS statement like so and so is a fantastic player and fantastic person, blah blah. Most SC2 personalities these days I feel have little respect for the community, and what they show most of the time is fake. | ||
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-Kyo-
Japan1926 Posts
Are you seriously so dumb that you cannot understand, first off, that it IS JP's show, and it IS NOT sponsored by anyone. Asserting this "standard" onto how he wants to conduct his own show is absurd. Secondly, the statement of "it's really rude to do xxx to Avilo" is so mind boggling. Did you even listen to Avilo in this "debate"? All he did was come on, whine to the players without taking Idra's points into consideration, unlike QXC, attempt to turn around what Idra said, and then flat out talk over him. If you've ever actually been in a debate or had a meaningful conversation in your life you don't just talk on top of other people; and to be honest, if I was the show host and an invited a person who couldn't come on and articulate themself in a way that was beneficial to the debate, while at the same time, just rehashing the same points and sticking to one "gotcha" point I would have dropped them just like JP did. Now, this isn't to say that I don't agree about the balance complaints Avilo was attempting to make. And I feel rightly so, that there are indeed some problems in TvZ that cannot be as easily explained as Idra made it out to be. But, when you objectively look back on what Idra was saying, even before Avilo came on, that he didn't want him on the show and then Idra tells him off and you blame the show for "being rude" it really just bugs the hell out of me. You should be happy they even let Avilo on the show in the first place knowing that it would more than likely happen. They did it for fun, they had their fun, and yet people seem to get these stupid ideas that the show is completely bias and hateful towards people like Avilo. No, the truth of the matter is, Avilo doesn't fully understand what he's talking about because hes not a top tier foreign pro and the conduct he brought to the show was simply an instigation upon what had already been brought up. If he can't bring anything to the debate, or cannot conduct meaningful advances to the debate what did you think would happen after he was on for 10 minutes? It's not as big of a deal as you people are making it out to be, and it makes zero sense to me how you can objectively stand up for Avilo in this showing. This is coming from someone who has many LgN friends, and I fully respect Avilo as well, but seriously, you're just being irrational if you are attempting to cry loud enough that this is "disprespect" and needs to be brought to forefront of the community. Get over yourselves. | ||
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nGBeast
United States914 Posts
On June 30 2012 13:52 Rhyinn wrote: This to you is usual e-sports behavior?! Then I for one don't want to be a part of e-sports. Call it unprofessional or disrespect, I don't care. The fact that you go on a show about SC and call another player a fucking imbecile and tell him to shut the fuck up is mind-blowing to me. For people to sponsor that kind of behavior is also just as mind-blowing. If this was any other major sport, that player would be issuing an apology. Oh no! Someones being rude over the internet? Oh no! Jesus christ are you joking me? This isn't fucking the NFL or the NBA or any body of sports that will fine you THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS for being a jack ass. This is a COMMUNITY RUN SHOW for a VIDEO GAME. This fucking mantra of "hurr durr esports must be professional" is really fucking annoying. | ||
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