On June 30 2012 13:33 fraktoasters wrote: This whole thing is fucking disgusting and I can't believe you put so much time and effort into something just because people on SoTG acted like human beings. You're right, SC Behavior is going backwards because instead of actually trying to act like mature thinking adults, there are idiots on this forum that feel the need to bash people and try to hurt the scene for any little reason you can think of. Being rude to people is so fucking small and irrelevant and literally no one in the world but you losers would give a fuck.
Of course they acted like human beings...disrespectful human beings. You are the only person who posts on here and you are very upset at what? "Us losers" who care about the community and it's image?!
I AM a mature thinking adult who posts legit ways of dealing with people exactly like you! You are the exact thing that I am trying to get rid of in this community. I am not trying to hurt the scene for any "little reason" I can think of, I'm actually trying to do the complete opposite. You didn't even read the article did you?
Being rude to other players is not small and definitely not irrelevant.
The funny thing about people who call themselves mature, is that they assume the way they behave is the superior and more "adult" way of acting. You are not a "mature thinking adult", you are a person with your opinion on how a community full of human beings should act, on a show known for sometimes being a bit outrageous, with community figures such as Incontrol and IdrA that are known to act in a way that offended "mature thinking adults" such as yourself.
Step out into the real world, where there is constant shit talking in real sports, all communities have dissent, people mock others, people form cliques, etc. By saying you want SotG to act in a "mature" and "professional" manner, you really mean that you want everyone to act like polite robots that fit your image of how people should properly behave. You literally just spent probably an hour writing out that transcript and the rest of the original thread to trash an online video game podcast and you consider yourself a mature adult attempting to help out the scene?
Thanks. I was going to go off again but seeing as how upset this whole thing is making me I probably would have just sweared incoherently. I'll just repost the youtube video that Rhyinn happened to remove when quoting me. And this is just the tip of the iceberg of how people act in the mainstream.
An asshole hangs up on an asshole. You posted this twice, so you feel it has relevance. I don't see it.
The relevance is so mindblowingly obvious I'm not sure where to start. You do realize this thread is about assholes hanging up on assholes right?
Actually I think this response is probably the best response I've heard on the other side that I'm arguing. Maybe I should just recognize the major pillars of SotG for the jackasses they are and just stop watching because that behavior frankly pisses me off.
Nonetheless, I would love to see people grow as human beings as I feel have managed to do since I was adolescent. I love the Pro SC2 scene, so I would love for a show that I have enjoyed many times in the past to also grow past this adolescent behavior. Rather than shutting everything down that I (to put simply) "don't agree with," I'd rather try to create dialogue to potentially grow and enrich minds. Simply turning one's head is quite the opposite of that.
On June 30 2012 13:33 fraktoasters wrote: This whole thing is fucking disgusting and I can't believe you put so much time and effort into something just because people on SoTG acted like human beings. You're right, SC Behavior is going backwards because instead of actually trying to act like mature thinking adults, there are idiots on this forum that feel the need to bash people and try to hurt the scene for any little reason you can think of. Being rude to people is so fucking small and irrelevant and literally no one in the world but you losers would give a fuck.
Of course they acted like human beings...disrespectful human beings. You are the only person who posts on here and you are very upset at what? "Us losers" who care about the community and it's image?!
I AM a mature thinking adult who posts legit ways of dealing with people exactly like you! You are the exact thing that I am trying to get rid of in this community. I am not trying to hurt the scene for any "little reason" I can think of, I'm actually trying to do the complete opposite. You didn't even read the article did you?
Being rude to other players is not small and definitely not irrelevant.
The funny thing about people who call themselves mature, is that they assume the way they behave is the superior and more "adult" way of acting. You are not a "mature thinking adult", you are a person with your opinion on how a community full of human beings should act, on a show known for sometimes being a bit outrageous, with community figures such as Incontrol and IdrA that are known to act in a way that offended "mature thinking adults" such as yourself.
Step out into the real world, where there is constant shit talking in real sports, all communities have dissent, people mock others, people form cliques, etc. By saying you want SotG to act in a "mature" and "professional" manner, you really mean that you want everyone to act like polite robots that fit your image of how people should properly behave. You literally just spent probably an hour writing out that transcript and the rest of the original thread to trash an online video game podcast and you consider yourself a mature adult attempting to help out the scene?
So what you mean is that people in the real world argue by insulting people who aren't their friends and gangbanging on them?
Holy shit my real world must be a parallel universe or something. I insult the fuck out of my friends when I argue with them, if our friendship regularly involves such treatment. Someone who isn't my friend who I'm having an argument with? Why the flying fuck would I insult him and call him "imbecile" "fucker" among other disrespectful stuff? That's just rude.
No idea what you're even talking about. As for it being a gangbang, no, it was pretty much IdrA and Incontrol, which are two people. That hardly qualifies as a gangbang. JP decided to end the show when he realized it wasn't going to go a good way anytime soon. People are acting like the entire State of the Game podcast went and beat the shit out of him in real life, made him eat dirt, then forever ruined his career. More like Incontrol laughed at him, IdrA called him an imbecile when avilo was acting like one, then JP cut him off because he saw the show was going nowhere. Better make a dozen threads about that super important situation.
What I'm talking about is that there's different ways to have dissent. Discussion and arguing is fine, the terms in which the discussion was in that particular time were not. Why even invite Avilo to the show if they're just gonna insult him and ignore the good points he was making (despite how badly they were drawn across). I understand when two friends argue and insult each other etc, that's normal. But you don't treat a person who isn't on your circle like that for no reason. At least most people I know don't do that, particularly when you invite them to participate on a discussion.
Avilo did not make good points. Avilo repeated the discussion that IdrA and qxc already had, which IdrA had given IMO a decent enough answer to, then twisted IdrA's words to claim that he agreed with avilo when IdrA clearly did not. There is a clear reason that they treated avilo like that. The transcript may not get it across but avilo seemed almost hysterical in the way he was talking. qxc then calmly repeated what avilo was trying to get across, but the late-game situation had already been discussed and avilo was adding nothing, and twisting IdrA's words.
In case you don't recall/didn't see it, IdrA said you can get on even footing macro wise with MMM and mass expansions, go marine-tank if you face ling/muta/baneling, go MMM/expand while sprinkling in marauders because zerg has to go ultra as their first T3 choice due to the MMM aggression, then put up 5 starports with your extra economy to pump out vikings during the broodlord tech switch.
Avilo's argument...was him saying this is impossible. He added nothing, and in the past has just been a complete balance whiner and extremely BM in general.
Doesn't matter. Completely irrelevant. You don't disrespect someone because his points aren't good. I'll give you that, OK, Avilo wasn't making good points, he's a noob and knows jack shit about SC2. Doesn't give anyone the right to disrespect him like that. I really liked the way Nony explained it in the SOTG thread.
I insist, I'd understand it if this were incontrol and idra arguing and idra was calling him an imbecile and a fucker, or artosis or whatever. These guys belong to the same circle, they have enough confidence to treat each other this way. Avilo is not part of it, he's a guest, and as a host, you show a minimum of respect and don't do this kind of thing. It's rude, that's all there is to it. It's really meaningless like many people here are saying, but I insist once again, if you do a public show on the internet, people are going to have an opinion on it, and all this outrage is just that, people voicing their opinion on a behaviour they don't agree on.
On June 30 2012 14:03 RedBack wrote: I seriously wish mods would just delete mind numbingly stupid threads like this. They dont serve any purpose except to create more stupid drama while the OP jacks off at the attention he's getting.
I'm not trying to create drama. Did you read the post at all?
i read as much of that drivel as i could be bothered doing, whether or not your intention is to create drama it doesnt matter, thats all your doing. Seriously dude get a hobby..... i know, maybe play some starcraft ?????
On June 30 2012 14:54 MichaelDonovan wrote: What the fuck stop posting about this. It's no big deal, and as a community it really sucks that we have so many dramawhores who love to blow these things way out of proportion.
"I don't agree with this, so I'm just going to label it as drama to dismiss it."
Pretty much what your post sounded like to me. Bringing up an occurrence that was rude, and quite frankly, helps set the tone for everyone else out there? ITS DEFINITELY DRAMA
On June 30 2012 13:49 VirgilSC2 wrote: So, to everyone justifying how they treated Avilo on SotG with the fact that he has a reputation of whining about imbalance, should they not treat IdrA the same way?
I've heard IdrA whine about Protoss so many times, even when Zerg is actually widely considered to be stronger in the match-up than Protoss is. Does that make it alright to mock him like they mocked Avilo?
It's pretty despicable to treat a guest like that on ANY show. They could have been mature about it, brought him on, let him say his piece on TvZ/ZvT, politely tell him his time was up and then end the segment, giving a really unknown player a bit of a popularity boost as the same time as fostering discussion. Instead they bring him on the show, mock and harass him (as well as Luckyfool, another NA player with some good insight), then hang up on him. Very immature.
because IdrA can carry out a calm conversation, seen with qxc. It's when you get obnoxious idiots like Avilo who prefer 1-liner balance complaints to actual in-depth conversation, does IdrA's bad side come out.
And people don't care about IdrA and his balance complaints because, 1) he's IdrA, he is a core figure of the SC community going way back to competing at Gomtv in Korea during broodwar.. Avilo is nothing community-wise to him. 2) IdrA doesn't have blogs, threads etc dedicated to balance complaints like Avilo does.. there is a differenc between that (dedicated threads to serious complaints about the game) and a mere "i hate protoss" that IdrA throws around when he's angry.
srsly can not believe people like you are making such a big deal out of this.
On June 30 2012 14:46 Talin wrote: If you don't enjoy SOTG, don't watch. I'm not just saying this for it to be the "nobody gives a shit about you think" kind of response (although that's true too). It is an honest advice - don't watch. Or at the very least consider whether the show has any value left to you.
They really don't say anything on the show that you wouldn't know otherwise, there's no insider feel to it, there's really not as many insightful comments on any topic, if we're being honest for the longest time now it was just generic discussion, cheap humor and an occasional shitstorm-inducing drama to mix it up. It can be entertaining if you're into that kind of stuff, otherwise it's going to be cringe inducing on a regular basis and you're shooting yourself in the foot by watching it.
This whole raising awareness and trying to change things on a larger scale won't work. What does work is organizing your SC2-related time and content to match your preferences. Focus on things you enjoy, run from everything else.
It is the only way.
I was about to post something very similar to this but you beat me to common sense. If the show has gone in a direction that you don't like by all means add your input or suggestions, but when it becomes apparent they wont be taken into account there's no sense in watching a show that you no longer enjoy. While I still enjoy it and will continue to watch it, I can understand how people may not like the direction it's taken since its original concept.
It's absurd there's a poll calling for it to be axed in this thread, just don't watch it!
On June 30 2012 14:04 dnld12 wrote: I'm sorry but im going to have to disagree with you on some things. But later on that First off: Avilo should've never EVER been brought onto the show. In the beginning, Idra, INcontrol, said 'comments' about Avilo. BAM. JP should've taken as a hint that bringing Avilo on the show would be aggrevating to the players. Also: QXC did a WONDERFUL job of discussing with Idra. In here we can show that Idra CAN get off his 'high' horse and talk to players who are logical and show respect.
Also this part in ur post: Idra felt that he got cut off while trying to make a point
Now, as for Avilo cutting off Idra. IN any discussion, in any debate, talking etc. If you have any respect: If you said you're point and you're done, that means YOU ARE DONE. Avilo cut off Idra. That means Idra had every right to say 'Shut the fuck up'. Why? Because Avilo was in the wrong. Was the words disrespectful sure why not. But by saying that is disrespectful is ignoring or belittling the fact that Avilo was NOT supposed to be talking in the first place. Idra respected Avilo's right to make a point but it is OBVIOUS that Avilo did NOT respect Idra's.
This, however, gives Idra no right to call Avilo a fucking imbecile.
Like i said before, Idra had every right to call him that. If i was trying to have a discussion and someone kept talking while i was trying to discuss. I would tell him or her to STOP. Let me talk cause i gave you your turn.
Incontrol stepping in to defend is teammate: there is nothing wrong with that. Using his Humor? Playing to his strengths? I think THAT is ignorant. When you see a FRIEND arguing, First response? Back friend up. Immediately.
Observers can say, "Oh its clearly Geoff is being bias" So what? If Incontrol is friends with IDra, than he has every right to back him up. It is not Incontrol's Duty to Be a peacekeeper in an arguement. YOu are placing 'expectations' on people because you want them to be there. You are not looking at the basic relationships each of the players have with one another.
You say something like, “This clearly isn’t going anywhere and I don’t feel like arguing anymore. InControl, what do you think of all of this?” Or…”This argument is making me mad. I don’t think my race is overpowered and that’s all I have to say about that.”
This part made me cringe. how do you say this? How do you think they can say this? I hate to used this over used qoute but : hindsight is 20/20. In an outside situation, you and i can say on our high horses and say : "oh he acted so uncivilized." Or " Oh he should've responded like this." BUT they are not perfect. They cannot control their anger as PERFECT as WE supposedly can. And since we probably CAN control our Anger so well, we should be able to judge them as such. Because we are so perfect when we are angry, we react to other acceptability when we are interrupted or get angry. JP drops Avilo from Skype. Really?
If ur really arruing about this, Go ahead and go Yell at Djwheat about dropping people on calls. Djwheat YELLS at people on LIve on THree, Yells on Inside the game. So DONT bring this up if you are NOT going to yell at Djwheat. That is double standard.
Finally this statement: Avilo said nothing, except being a little poor at debating, to warrant that kind of behavior. Taking the easy way out on this one was a bad choice.
I am sorry to say but you are riding on the band wagon. You look are looking at this with blinders on because it is easier to side with the supposed little guy than it is with the person who seems 'bad.'
This is message to anyone reading this post:
Everyone is human.
I completely agree with you on a lot of the things you say. I understand that Avilo cut off idra, that's why I said it! I don't want to seem like I have an agenda here that I clearly don't. I wanted to tell people that Idra was cut off because he was.
I don't watch Live on Three, so I'm sorry for not commenting about that. DjWheat could have a totally different show than SOTG. I have no idea. I wish I could comment on this, but I can't.
Everyone IS human. I love that. I totally agree with that as well. That is why I had made a couple of statements about learning from this and growing the show in a more professional way.
Did the SoTG thread cap out or something? Why even make a new thread about this, its the same stuff people have been saying all day yesterday. Its a silly situation that everyone is blowing out of proportion
On June 30 2012 14:54 MichaelDonovan wrote: What the fuck stop posting about this. It's no big deal, and as a community it really sucks that we have so many dramawhores who love to blow these things way out of proportion.
"I don't agree with this, so I'm just going to label it as drama to dismiss it."
Pretty much what your post sounded like to me. Bringing up an occurrence that was rude, and quite frankly, helps set the tone for everyone else out there? ITS DEFINITELY DRAMA
Seriously, if I didn't know any better, I would say 90 percent of this community is trolls. There's no way everyone is really this stupid. Legs are being pulled here, I think.
This kind of behaviour is really unpleasant. I just can't understand why people enjoy acting like this. Do they think such celebration of narrowmindedness might make them look smarter?
I was already tired of these young male behaviors; now I just won't watch or listen more content with those guys, who I feel badly degrade the level of the sc2 scene.
On June 30 2012 13:31 cmizzles wrote: Idra has every right to dismiss everything avilo and luckyfool have to say for the simple fact that they don't play starcraft 2 at the highest level. No matter what counter arguments Idra makes here, avilo is going to argue that it can't be done, when in actuality it just can't be done BY HIM. I'm not sure why avilo even wanted to go on the show when it was quite obvious that they were making fun of him, and were not going to take him seriously.
Idra had every right to argue with Avilo, which he did. No one has the right to dismiss everything someone says about the game of SC2. Avilo said it himself, which I agree with..."Just because you're not the best, doesn't mean you can't bring things to the game." My whole point of the article was to teach them how to learn from this experience and not make fun of their guests.
Well, if you're not the best, it does mean that whatever you have to say, or whatever idea you have, isn't all that relevant to professional level balance discussion because you haven't competed in professional level competition. Do you think pro sports coaches read the newspaper to find out what strategies sportswriters think will work?
Coaches at every level have contributed to the understanding of their respective games, which is a more apt analogy. You don't have to have competed at a "professional level" to understand the game whether it be football or SC2. In football in particular defensive and offensive schemes that have originated at the high school or small-college level have filtered up to the biggest college teams and/or to the NFL. The best-known offensive example would be the spread offense.
Right, but the point is that just because something works or doesnt work at a lower level doesn't mean it will or wont work at a higher level. To go along with your football analogy, yea the spread offense is a great example of something that worked really well in college and translated well to the NFL, but how do you think Bill Belichick would react to a high school coach going on and on about how effective the triple option is. Do avilo or luckyfool have valid points in their argument? maybe. But can either of them have a reasonable balance discussion with Idra? No. That's why QXC was able to have a discussion with Idra and Avilo was not.
On June 30 2012 14:54 MichaelDonovan wrote: What the fuck stop posting about this. It's no big deal, and as a community it really sucks that we have so many dramawhores who love to blow these things way out of proportion.
"I don't agree with this, so I'm just going to label it as drama to dismiss it."
Pretty much what your post sounded like to me. Bringing up an occurrence that was rude, and quite frankly, helps set the tone for everyone else out there? ITS DEFINITELY DRAMA
Seriously, if I didn't know any better, I would say 90 percent of this community is trolls. There's no way everyone is really this stupid. Legs are being pulled here, I think.
On June 30 2012 13:33 fraktoasters wrote: This whole thing is fucking disgusting and I can't believe you put so much time and effort into something just because people on SoTG acted like human beings. You're right, SC Behavior is going backwards because instead of actually trying to act like mature thinking adults, there are idiots on this forum that feel the need to bash people and try to hurt the scene for any little reason you can think of. Being rude to people is so fucking small and irrelevant and literally no one in the world but you losers would give a fuck.
Of course they acted like human beings...disrespectful human beings. You are the only person who posts on here and you are very upset at what? "Us losers" who care about the community and it's image?!
I AM a mature thinking adult who posts legit ways of dealing with people exactly like you! You are the exact thing that I am trying to get rid of in this community. I am not trying to hurt the scene for any "little reason" I can think of, I'm actually trying to do the complete opposite. You didn't even read the article did you?
Being rude to other players is not small and definitely not irrelevant.
The funny thing about people who call themselves mature, is that they assume the way they behave is the superior and more "adult" way of acting. You are not a "mature thinking adult", you are a person with your opinion on how a community full of human beings should act, on a show known for sometimes being a bit outrageous, with community figures such as Incontrol and IdrA that are known to act in a way that offended "mature thinking adults" such as yourself.
Step out into the real world, where there is constant shit talking in real sports, all communities have dissent, people mock others, people form cliques, etc. By saying you want SotG to act in a "mature" and "professional" manner, you really mean that you want everyone to act like polite robots that fit your image of how people should properly behave. You literally just spent probably an hour writing out that transcript and the rest of the original thread to trash an online video game podcast and you consider yourself a mature adult attempting to help out the scene?
So what you mean is that people in the real world argue by insulting people who aren't their friends and gangbanging on them?
Holy shit my real world must be a parallel universe or something. I insult the fuck out of my friends when I argue with them, if our friendship regularly involves such treatment. Someone who isn't my friend who I'm having an argument with? Why the flying fuck would I insult him and call him "imbecile" "fucker" among other disrespectful stuff? That's just rude.
No idea what you're even talking about. As for it being a gangbang, no, it was pretty much IdrA and Incontrol, which are two people. That hardly qualifies as a gangbang. JP decided to end the show when he realized it wasn't going to go a good way anytime soon. People are acting like the entire State of the Game podcast went and beat the shit out of him in real life, made him eat dirt, then forever ruined his career. More like Incontrol laughed at him, IdrA called him an imbecile when avilo was acting like one, then JP cut him off because he saw the show was going nowhere. Better make a dozen threads about that super important situation.
What I'm talking about is that there's different ways to have dissent. Discussion and arguing is fine, the terms in which the discussion was in that particular time were not. Why even invite Avilo to the show if they're just gonna insult him and ignore the good points he was making (despite how badly they were drawn across). I understand when two friends argue and insult each other etc, that's normal. But you don't treat a person who isn't on your circle like that for no reason. At least most people I know don't do that, particularly when you invite them to participate on a discussion.
Avilo did not make good points. Avilo repeated the discussion that IdrA and qxc already had, which IdrA had given IMO a decent enough answer to, then twisted IdrA's words to claim that he agreed with avilo when IdrA clearly did not. There is a clear reason that they treated avilo like that. The transcript may not get it across but avilo seemed almost hysterical in the way he was talking. qxc then calmly repeated what avilo was trying to get across, but the late-game situation had already been discussed and avilo was adding nothing, and twisting IdrA's words.
In case you don't recall/didn't see it, IdrA said you can get on even footing macro wise with MMM and mass expansions, go marine-tank if you face ling/muta/baneling, go MMM/expand while sprinkling in marauders because zerg has to go ultra as their first T3 choice due to the MMM aggression, then put up 5 starports with your extra economy to pump out vikings during the broodlord tech switch.
Avilo's argument...was him saying this is impossible. He added nothing, and in the past has just been a complete balance whiner and extremely BM in general.
Doesn't matter. Completely irrelevant. You don't disrespect someone because his points aren't good. I'll give you that, OK, Avilo wasn't making good points, he's a noob and knows jack shit about SC2. Doesn't give anyone the right to disrespect him like that. I really liked the way Nony explained it in the SOTG thread.
I insist, I'd understand it if this were incontrol and idra arguing and idra was calling him an imbecile and a fucker, or artosis or whatever. These guys belong to the same circle, they have enough confidence to treat each other this way. Avilo is not part of it, he's a guest, and as a host, you show a minimum of respect and don't do this kind of thing. It's rude, that's all there is to it. It's really meaningless like many people here are saying, but I insist once again, if you do a public show on the internet, people are going to have an opinion on it, and all this outrage is just that, people voicing their opinion on a behaviour they don't agree on.
It's not irrelevant. They have a bad history with avilo and trash talk each other a good bit. Avilo is also extremely BM, and also insulted Incontrol for not making it into WCS and claimed to be the superior player (I believe). There was clearly tension between them. It was obviously in retrospect a very bad idea to bring avilo on the show, but they do NOT respect each other and there is no reason to force respect. If you were watching the show up to that point it was also fairly obvious what was going to happen with the way they were talking/mocking avilo, then saying "of course he will want to come on", and then avilo did in fact want to come on. I mean seriously what was avilo expecting? The community is making him out to be a martyr for no reason---even if you are unaware of their history there is an obvious reason IdrA and the cast were respectful to qxc despite him no longer being an extremely good player, but not to avilo.
It's extremely clear that someone like avilo went onto the show to voice his balance whining infront of 10k people. He had NO intention to have an actual argument and no one expected it. Avilo chose to go on the show after his bad history with half of the cast, then dropped stupid opinions, and now people are saying RESPECT HIM just because he's a guest?
On June 30 2012 13:05 OceanLab wrote: What bothers me was how JP dropped him off the skype call. How hard can it be to say "this isn't going anywhere, thanks for coming on the show avilo blah blah" and then drop him? It confirms what I've always thought about JP though, not a great host by any stretch of the imagination...
On June 30 2012 14:54 MichaelDonovan wrote: What the fuck stop posting about this. It's no big deal, and as a community it really sucks that we have so many dramawhores who love to blow these things way out of proportion.
On the other hand, people need to stop sucking progamer cocks. It's unbelievable how far people are going to justify whatever nonsense their almighty idol comes up with this time. And JP is a retard, doesn't surprise me.
Incontrol, Jp, and Idra just acted very unprofessional. The fact is, when you're on a talk show that has thousands of viewers you need to put on a different face because what they're saying are influencing a ton of people. State of the Game just hasn't been the same and I don't know if i can watch it anymore if behavior like this keeps up.
On June 30 2012 13:33 fraktoasters wrote: This whole thing is fucking disgusting and I can't believe you put so much time and effort into something just because people on SoTG acted like human beings. You're right, SC Behavior is going backwards because instead of actually trying to act like mature thinking adults, there are idiots on this forum that feel the need to bash people and try to hurt the scene for any little reason you can think of. Being rude to people is so fucking small and irrelevant and literally no one in the world but you losers would give a fuck.
Of course they acted like human beings...disrespectful human beings. You are the only person who posts on here and you are very upset at what? "Us losers" who care about the community and it's image?!
I AM a mature thinking adult who posts legit ways of dealing with people exactly like you! You are the exact thing that I am trying to get rid of in this community. I am not trying to hurt the scene for any "little reason" I can think of, I'm actually trying to do the complete opposite. You didn't even read the article did you?
Being rude to other players is not small and definitely not irrelevant.
The funny thing about people who call themselves mature, is that they assume the way they behave is the superior and more "adult" way of acting. You are not a "mature thinking adult", you are a person with your opinion on how a community full of human beings should act, on a show known for sometimes being a bit outrageous, with community figures such as Incontrol and IdrA that are known to act in a way that offended "mature thinking adults" such as yourself.
Step out into the real world, where there is constant shit talking in real sports, all communities have dissent, people mock others, people form cliques, etc. By saying you want SotG to act in a "mature" and "professional" manner, you really mean that you want everyone to act like polite robots that fit your image of how people should properly behave. You literally just spent probably an hour writing out that transcript and the rest of the original thread to trash an online video game podcast and you consider yourself a mature adult attempting to help out the scene?
So what you mean is that people in the real world argue by insulting people who aren't their friends and gangbanging on them?
Holy shit my real world must be a parallel universe or something. I insult the fuck out of my friends when I argue with them, if our friendship regularly involves such treatment. Someone who isn't my friend who I'm having an argument with? Why the flying fuck would I insult him and call him "imbecile" "fucker" among other disrespectful stuff? That's just rude.
No idea what you're even talking about. As for it being a gangbang, no, it was pretty much IdrA and Incontrol, which are two people. That hardly qualifies as a gangbang. JP decided to end the show when he realized it wasn't going to go a good way anytime soon. People are acting like the entire State of the Game podcast went and beat the shit out of him in real life, made him eat dirt, then forever ruined his career. More like Incontrol laughed at him, IdrA called him an imbecile when avilo was acting like one, then JP cut him off because he saw the show was going nowhere. Better make a dozen threads about that super important situation.
What I'm talking about is that there's different ways to have dissent. Discussion and arguing is fine, the terms in which the discussion was in that particular time were not. Why even invite Avilo to the show if they're just gonna insult him and ignore the good points he was making (despite how badly they were drawn across). I understand when two friends argue and insult each other etc, that's normal. But you don't treat a person who isn't on your circle like that for no reason. At least most people I know don't do that, particularly when you invite them to participate on a discussion.
Avilo did not make good points. Avilo repeated the discussion that IdrA and qxc already had, which IdrA had given IMO a decent enough answer to, then twisted IdrA's words to claim that he agreed with avilo when IdrA clearly did not. There is a clear reason that they treated avilo like that. The transcript may not get it across but avilo seemed almost hysterical in the way he was talking. qxc then calmly repeated what avilo was trying to get across, but the late-game situation had already been discussed and avilo was adding nothing, and twisting IdrA's words.
In case you don't recall/didn't see it, IdrA said you can get on even footing macro wise with MMM and mass expansions, go marine-tank if you face ling/muta/baneling, go MMM/expand while sprinkling in marauders because zerg has to go ultra as their first T3 choice due to the MMM aggression, then put up 5 starports with your extra economy to pump out vikings during the broodlord tech switch.
Avilo's argument...was him saying this is impossible. He added nothing, and in the past has just been a complete balance whiner and extremely BM in general.
Doesn't matter. Completely irrelevant. You don't disrespect someone because his points aren't good. I'll give you that, OK, Avilo wasn't making good points, he's a noob and knows jack shit about SC2. Doesn't give anyone the right to disrespect him like that. I really liked the way Nony explained it in the SOTG thread.
I insist, I'd understand it if this were incontrol and idra arguing and idra was calling him an imbecile and a fucker, or artosis or whatever. These guys belong to the same circle, they have enough confidence to treat each other this way. Avilo is not part of it, he's a guest, and as a host, you show a minimum of respect and don't do this kind of thing. It's rude, that's all there is to it. It's really meaningless like many people here are saying, but I insist once again, if you do a public show on the internet, people are going to have an opinion on it, and all this outrage is just that, people voicing their opinion on a behaviour they don't agree on.
It's not irrelevant. They have a bad history with avilo and trash talk each other a good bit. Avilo is also extremely BM, and also insulted Incontrol for not making it into WCS and claimed to be the superior player (I believe). There was clearly tension between them. It was obviously in retrospect a very bad idea to bring avilo on the show, but they do NOT respect each other and there is no reason to force respect. If you were watching the show up to that point it was also fairly obvious what was going to happen with the way they were talking/mocking avilo, then saying "of course he will want to come on", and then avilo did in fact want to come on. I mean seriously what was avilo expecting? The community is making him out to be a martyr for no reason---even if you are unaware of their history there is an obvious reason IdrA and the cast were respectful to qxc despite him no longer being an extremely good player, but not to avilo.
It's extremely clear that someone like avilo went onto the show to voice his balance whining infront of 10k people. He had NO intention to have an actual argument and no one expected it. Avilo chose to go on the show after his bad history with half of the cast, then dropped stupid opinions, and now people are saying RESPECT HIM just because he's a guest?
I almost agreed with you until the last paragraph. I really don't understand why Avilo would agree to be on the show on the first place, but it also seems to me like he was just set up to fail, which is also a sucky attitude. Why even invite him in the first place? It's just... childish... stupid... even for SOTG it seems worthless. And yes you respect guests just because they're guests, unless they do something worthy of such disrespect, which, in this particular case, Avilo didn't do.
Like I said previously, it really doesn't matter, it's just a sad thing to watch. Supposedly grown adults doing these things? I can buy it from people in high school or something, that's normal teenage behaviour, but at this stage? It's just weird. Well, maybe it's just not my type of show, whatever.
EPT
