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Which unit would you most like to see removed? - Page 7

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Gfire
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1699 Posts
May 14 2012 05:22 GMT
#121
The colossus in theory is actually an interesting unit to me. It becomes boring because it is a-move and adds to the deathball issues. All units need to be bigger so splash and deathballs are less extreme, and it needs to involve a little more micro, maybe make it so it's attack doesn't follow the target but can be dodged like the lurker. The core design of the unit seems good, that it can walk over cliffs and other units, it's linear splash damage and it's great height making it vulnerable to anti-air are all cool ideas.

I think all these units would be fine with some tuning, but the roach is the most boring of them all, although in terms of role and tech I like the roach a fair bit in many cases, but it just has too much HP. It was better as a 1 supply 2 armor 3 range unit, and they should have just nerfed it's HP, which was the real problem with it, imo.
all's fair in love and melodies
justinpal
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3810 Posts
May 14 2012 05:25 GMT
#122
On May 14 2012 14:22 Gfire wrote:
The colossus in theory is actually an interesting unit to me. It becomes boring because it is a-move and adds to the deathball issues. All units need to be bigger so splash and deathballs are less extreme, and it needs to involve a little more micro, maybe make it so it's attack doesn't follow the target but can be dodged like the lurker. The core design of the unit seems good, that it can walk over cliffs and other units, it's linear splash damage and it's great height making it vulnerable to anti-air are all cool ideas.

I think all these units would be fine with some tuning, but the roach is the most boring of them all, although in terms of role and tech I like the roach a fair bit in many cases, but it just has too much HP. It was better as a 1 supply 2 armor 3 range unit, and they should have just nerfed it's HP, which was the real problem with it, imo.


I like where your idea is going. But, the stutter step micro in SC2 is too easy to pull off. If the Col was a vertical ray rather than a horizontal ray it may actually be harder to dodge and avoid dying to zealots and stalkers. As of now if that change were implemented, MMM balls would just keep kiting and with greater success.
Never make a hydralisk.
Nonexistent
Profile Joined April 2012
United States50 Posts
May 14 2012 05:26 GMT
#123
I think roaches would be fine if they costed 1.75 or so supply
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." - Bisu
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
May 14 2012 05:27 GMT
#124
I say keep the collosus, but replace extended thermal lance with something more interesting.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
MNdakota
Profile Joined March 2012
United States512 Posts
May 14 2012 05:28 GMT
#125
Not surprising that the colossus was first to be honest.

Bring reavers back!
You may have a fresh start any moment you choose, for this thing we call "failure" is not the falling down, but the staying down.
freakhill
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Japan463 Posts
May 14 2012 05:31 GMT
#126
Marine!
moo ForGG, Dragon, MVP, Gumiho, DRG, PartinG, Life]0[!
DawN883
Profile Joined November 2011
Sweden558 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 05:31:59
May 14 2012 05:31 GMT
#127
Colossus. Marines atleast requires micro and skill to be used well
If the dead are not raised, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11135 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 05:36:54
May 14 2012 05:32 GMT
#128
On May 14 2012 14:25 justinpal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 14:22 Gfire wrote:
The colossus in theory is actually an interesting unit to me. It becomes boring because it is a-move and adds to the deathball issues. All units need to be bigger so splash and deathballs are less extreme, and it needs to involve a little more micro, maybe make it so it's attack doesn't follow the target but can be dodged like the lurker. The core design of the unit seems good, that it can walk over cliffs and other units, it's linear splash damage and it's great height making it vulnerable to anti-air are all cool ideas.

I think all these units would be fine with some tuning, but the roach is the most boring of them all, although in terms of role and tech I like the roach a fair bit in many cases, but it just has too much HP. It was better as a 1 supply 2 armor 3 range unit, and they should have just nerfed it's HP, which was the real problem with it, imo.


I like where your idea is going. But, the stutter step micro in SC2 is too easy to pull off. If the Col was a vertical ray rather than a horizontal ray it may actually be harder to dodge and avoid dying to zealots and stalkers. As of now if that change were implemented, MMM balls would just keep kiting and with greater success.

Dude, vertical ray Colossus has been floating around in my mind for a long-ass time. It's absolutely brilliant.

Right now, the horizontal ray is almost always fully efficient against the arches that naturally form when armies engage. With a vertical arch, the Colossus steadily becomes less effective as an army decreases in size, but this can be mitigated with good positioning. But hey, the Colossus can walk over cliffs! Maybe with a vertical ray, the cliffwalking would be much more useful for getting the unit into a good position to maximize its vertical splash damage, but perhaps at a tradeoff of putting it into a more vulnerable position against anti-air. Now, you must make a decision on either maximizing its damage or minimizing its positional vulnerability.

And if it turns out that a vertical ray would be too much of a nerf with current Colossus stats, perhaps buff the attack damage to compensate. Maybe the attack can be buffed to a point where it can 1-shot workers, thus making it a viable harassment unit, especially when combined with a Warp Prism. Now you've got a Reaver with legs! And some mighty fine legs, if I might add.

No need to thank me.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
EnderSword
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada669 Posts
May 14 2012 05:33 GMT
#129
I'm Protoss, and ya, I want it removed.

I never use it anymore because it can be hard countered so viciously...but certain things are balanced so harshly around it that Protoss pays a lot for its existence.
We can't have good air or anti-air because we need to have the hard counters to colossus hurt us.
Bronze/Silver/Gold level Guides - www.youtube.com/user/EnderSword
Fubi
Profile Joined March 2011
2228 Posts
May 14 2012 05:33 GMT
#130
On May 14 2012 13:47 FlukyS wrote:
I love the way people actually voted for roach to be removed to be wildly honest here for a minute if roach were removed Zerg wouldn't be able to feasibly win against a huge amount of strats. Like mass hellions what could the Zerg do? Or mass Zealots? Its very funny how people forget how important specific units are in this game especially for Zerg.

That isn't the point of this thread dude... I'm pretty sure if you remove any unit of any race in the game at this point, there would be a strategy against them that they would straight out die to (except maybe removing Carriers/Reapers). Obviously we're assuming the game would be re-balanced after one way or another.
lorkac
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States2297 Posts
May 14 2012 05:34 GMT
#131
On May 14 2012 14:22 Gfire wrote:
The colossus in theory is actually an interesting unit to me. It becomes boring because it is a-move and adds to the deathball issues. All units need to be bigger so splash and deathballs are less extreme, and it needs to involve a little more micro, maybe make it so it's attack doesn't follow the target but can be dodged like the lurker. The core design of the unit seems good, that it can walk over cliffs and other units, it's linear splash damage and it's great height making it vulnerable to anti-air are all cool ideas.

I think all these units would be fine with some tuning, but the roach is the most boring of them all, although in terms of role and tech I like the roach a fair bit in many cases, but it just has too much HP. It was better as a 1 supply 2 armor 3 range unit, and they should have just nerfed it's HP, which was the real problem with it, imo.


I'm a big believer in a tier 1 hydralisk (nerfed stats +decreased cost) and a tier 2 roach for double the price and double the stats. 32 damage and 2 armor for 150 mins and 50 gas.
By the truth we are undone. Life is a dream. Tis waking that kills us. He who robs us of our dreams robs us of our life --Orlando: A Biography
dgwow
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1024 Posts
May 14 2012 05:34 GMT
#132
Blizzard should be looking at this thread and responding appropriately.
Don't let those anti-cheese advocates tell you what to do. Rush to meet life head on!
xza
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore1600 Posts
May 14 2012 05:37 GMT
#133
Colossus, never have I seen a unit who has such a huge splash damage coupled with mobility lol. It definitely needs removal, atleast reavers were slow as hell!
"What a terrible final. This is why BO3s are horrible. Seriously MKP vs Moon in a final and having it BO3 is like having Mila Kunis naked in your bed and all she'll give you is a HJ with her PJs on. Pffffffffffffffftt." -greatZERG
sunprince
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2258 Posts
May 14 2012 05:37 GMT
#134
Banelings, because Blizzard uses them as one of the main excuses why Zerg doesn't need lurkers.
Ryze
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada234 Posts
May 14 2012 05:38 GMT
#135
one shot from a colossus = same damage as fungal growth but better dps

think about it -.-
www.twitch.tv/colryze twitter.com/colryze acelessons.com/lessons/colryze/
frontline-
Profile Joined March 2012
Bulgaria281 Posts
May 14 2012 05:38 GMT
#136
Removing the Colosus means Protoss should get something else with strong AOE so its pretty much a win/win situation for us .
I would like to see the Arbiter back on the Mothership place. Statis replacing vortex and recall actually being a viable option in the late game. As good as the Mothership is, its a fucking horrible unit. Its slow and if you dont keep it with ur army it always gets sniped. A strong spell like recall is totally wasted because of the fucked up unit, making the Protoss dependent on a single vortex.
dgwow
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1024 Posts
May 14 2012 05:39 GMT
#137
On May 14 2012 14:06 RaiZ wrote:
Where is the sentry ? And the Immortal ?... Those 3 units (counting colossus) combined are seriously so fucking annoying to play against.
Also infestors, and then there's the roach which is a pretty boring unit. But much needed to counter most gate's units composition until upgrades / blink...

Anyway, the FF from the sentry is by far the most annoying spell i've ever seen on a RTS game. I know without it you would lose a LOT of games, but seriously i really hate when sometimes the game is decided by how well you can control the FFs no matter what your opponent does...

Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 14:05 stormfoxSC wrote:
Baneling, yo. Or rather, I'd like to see it replaced with a better unit.

Also this. ZvZ banes war is just frustrating. TvZ against banes is really a pain in the ass to play against. God there's too much things i hate, should take some Diablo3 holidays !

Peace.



Banelings are amazing, what are you talking about. Without that where will we see awesome marine splitting?
Don't let those anti-cheese advocates tell you what to do. Rush to meet life head on!
Berailfor
Profile Joined January 2012
441 Posts
May 14 2012 05:39 GMT
#138
Yeah I'm surprised this thread has lasted as long as it has. Poll threads are generally closed very quickly. Especially polls where everyone already knows what the majority will answer. Which is of course colossus, roach, and marauder.

As far as the poll goes. Well I'd have to say none. It'd be better to ask which unit needs a rework. All the units right now are so imbedded into the balance of the game that removing one would cause lots of problems.

Personally I don't think the colossus is a boring unit. It's just a unit people get pissed about because it in itself requires minimal micro and people get angry getting destroyed by them. But as far as gameplay goes it adds many elements to the game. It makes positional game a lot more important (IE stalkers positioned to protect them from Vikings, forcefields to stop the units from getting in close for snipes, or just plain trying to force fights in the position where your units will be more efficient). So to me it isn't a terrible unit. It's just people get really pissed off from a unit that is meant to do tons of damage and isn't a caster of some sort. Broodlords are the same type of unit but you don't see people complaining about those. Why? Because they are more pleasing to the eye. And they spawn units that don't cost anything so people see it as cool. Whereas being unprepared for them is just as detrimental as not being prepared for colossus. But broodlords are true A-movers. Colossus you can micro to save, micro to do more damage via target firing correct areas, cliff micro (with broods it's not micro. Just proper positioning over a cliff.) And to use them efficiently does require a large portion of your APM. But like said since they can A move kill armies people get pissed off. But when you think about what they actually elements they actually add to the game it makes for pretty interesting games that require micro and smart thinking from both sides.

But anyway I hope this thread gets closed. Poll threads are frowned upon for a reason. Especially one like this which promotes balance whining and serves no other purpose (because people already know the majority answer to the question).
KingAce
Profile Joined September 2010
United States471 Posts
May 14 2012 05:39 GMT
#139
hahahah give protoss the reaver back and you will rue the day. Personally I would like the reaper removed, immortal because it is redundant design wise( toss has colossus, stalker + immortal? really). For zerg something needs to be done with the hydra.
"You're defined by the WORST of your group..." Bill Burr
sunprince
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2258 Posts
May 14 2012 05:40 GMT
#140
On May 14 2012 14:34 lorkac wrote:
I'm a big believer in a tier 1 hydralisk (nerfed stats +decreased cost) and a tier 2 roach for double the price and double the stats. 32 damage and 2 armor for 150 mins and 50 gas.


If we had Tier 1 hydralisks, we could also remove banelings and add lurkers back in Tier 2, and we could keep a modified Tier 1 roach. Something like 100 mins/50 gas, 2 armor, 22 damage, no Tunneling Claws, and 5 hp/sec regeneration burrowed or not.
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