EPTI think all these units would be fine with some tuning, but the roach is the most boring of them all, although in terms of role and tech I like the roach a fair bit in many cases, but it just has too much HP. It was better as a 1 supply 2 armor 3 range unit, and they should have just nerfed it's HP, which was the real problem with it, imo.
Which unit would you most like to see removed? - Page 7
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Gfire
United States1699 Posts
I think all these units would be fine with some tuning, but the roach is the most boring of them all, although in terms of role and tech I like the roach a fair bit in many cases, but it just has too much HP. It was better as a 1 supply 2 armor 3 range unit, and they should have just nerfed it's HP, which was the real problem with it, imo. | ||
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justinpal
United States3810 Posts
On May 14 2012 14:22 Gfire wrote: The colossus in theory is actually an interesting unit to me. It becomes boring because it is a-move and adds to the deathball issues. All units need to be bigger so splash and deathballs are less extreme, and it needs to involve a little more micro, maybe make it so it's attack doesn't follow the target but can be dodged like the lurker. The core design of the unit seems good, that it can walk over cliffs and other units, it's linear splash damage and it's great height making it vulnerable to anti-air are all cool ideas. I think all these units would be fine with some tuning, but the roach is the most boring of them all, although in terms of role and tech I like the roach a fair bit in many cases, but it just has too much HP. It was better as a 1 supply 2 armor 3 range unit, and they should have just nerfed it's HP, which was the real problem with it, imo. I like where your idea is going. But, the stutter step micro in SC2 is too easy to pull off. If the Col was a vertical ray rather than a horizontal ray it may actually be harder to dodge and avoid dying to zealots and stalkers. As of now if that change were implemented, MMM balls would just keep kiting and with greater success. | ||
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Nonexistent
United States50 Posts
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
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MNdakota
United States512 Posts
Bring reavers back!  | ||
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freakhill
Japan463 Posts
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DawN883
Sweden558 Posts
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On May 14 2012 14:25 justinpal wrote: I like where your idea is going. But, the stutter step micro in SC2 is too easy to pull off. If the Col was a vertical ray rather than a horizontal ray it may actually be harder to dodge and avoid dying to zealots and stalkers. As of now if that change were implemented, MMM balls would just keep kiting and with greater success. Dude, vertical ray Colossus has been floating around in my mind for a long-ass time. It's absolutely brilliant. Right now, the horizontal ray is almost always fully efficient against the arches that naturally form when armies engage. With a vertical arch, the Colossus steadily becomes less effective as an army decreases in size, but this can be mitigated with good positioning. But hey, the Colossus can walk over cliffs! Maybe with a vertical ray, the cliffwalking would be much more useful for getting the unit into a good position to maximize its vertical splash damage, but perhaps at a tradeoff of putting it into a more vulnerable position against anti-air. Now, you must make a decision on either maximizing its damage or minimizing its positional vulnerability. And if it turns out that a vertical ray would be too much of a nerf with current Colossus stats, perhaps buff the attack damage to compensate. Maybe the attack can be buffed to a point where it can 1-shot workers, thus making it a viable harassment unit, especially when combined with a Warp Prism. Now you've got a Reaver with legs! And some mighty fine legs, if I might add. No need to thank me. | ||
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EnderSword
Canada669 Posts
I never use it anymore because it can be hard countered so viciously...but certain things are balanced so harshly around it that Protoss pays a lot for its existence. We can't have good air or anti-air because we need to have the hard counters to colossus hurt us. | ||
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Fubi
2228 Posts
On May 14 2012 13:47 FlukyS wrote: I love the way people actually voted for roach to be removed to be wildly honest here for a minute if roach were removed Zerg wouldn't be able to feasibly win against a huge amount of strats. Like mass hellions what could the Zerg do? Or mass Zealots? Its very funny how people forget how important specific units are in this game especially for Zerg. That isn't the point of this thread dude... I'm pretty sure if you remove any unit of any race in the game at this point, there would be a strategy against them that they would straight out die to (except maybe removing Carriers/Reapers). Obviously we're assuming the game would be re-balanced after one way or another. | ||
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lorkac
United States2297 Posts
On May 14 2012 14:22 Gfire wrote: The colossus in theory is actually an interesting unit to me. It becomes boring because it is a-move and adds to the deathball issues. All units need to be bigger so splash and deathballs are less extreme, and it needs to involve a little more micro, maybe make it so it's attack doesn't follow the target but can be dodged like the lurker. The core design of the unit seems good, that it can walk over cliffs and other units, it's linear splash damage and it's great height making it vulnerable to anti-air are all cool ideas. I think all these units would be fine with some tuning, but the roach is the most boring of them all, although in terms of role and tech I like the roach a fair bit in many cases, but it just has too much HP. It was better as a 1 supply 2 armor 3 range unit, and they should have just nerfed it's HP, which was the real problem with it, imo. I'm a big believer in a tier 1 hydralisk (nerfed stats +decreased cost) and a tier 2 roach for double the price and double the stats. 32 damage and 2 armor for 150 mins and 50 gas. | ||
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
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xza
Singapore1600 Posts
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
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Ryze
Canada234 Posts
think about it -.- | ||
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frontline-
Bulgaria281 Posts
I would like to see the Arbiter back on the Mothership place. Statis replacing vortex and recall actually being a viable option in the late game. As good as the Mothership is, its a fucking horrible unit. Its slow and if you dont keep it with ur army it always gets sniped. A strong spell like recall is totally wasted because of the fucked up unit, making the Protoss dependent on a single vortex. | ||
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dgwow
Canada1024 Posts
On May 14 2012 14:06 RaiZ wrote: Where is the sentry ? And the Immortal ?... Those 3 units (counting colossus) combined are seriously so fucking annoying to play against. Also infestors, and then there's the roach which is a pretty boring unit. But much needed to counter most gate's units composition until upgrades / blink... Anyway, the FF from the sentry is by far the most annoying spell i've ever seen on a RTS game. I know without it you would lose a LOT of games, but seriously i really hate when sometimes the game is decided by how well you can control the FFs no matter what your opponent does... Also this. ZvZ banes war is just frustrating. TvZ against banes is really a pain in the ass to play against. God there's too much things i hate, should take some Diablo3 holidays ! Peace.  Banelings are amazing, what are you talking about. Without that where will we see awesome marine splitting? | ||
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Berailfor
441 Posts
As far as the poll goes. Well I'd have to say none. It'd be better to ask which unit needs a rework. All the units right now are so imbedded into the balance of the game that removing one would cause lots of problems. Personally I don't think the colossus is a boring unit. It's just a unit people get pissed about because it in itself requires minimal micro and people get angry getting destroyed by them. But as far as gameplay goes it adds many elements to the game. It makes positional game a lot more important (IE stalkers positioned to protect them from Vikings, forcefields to stop the units from getting in close for snipes, or just plain trying to force fights in the position where your units will be more efficient). So to me it isn't a terrible unit. It's just people get really pissed off from a unit that is meant to do tons of damage and isn't a caster of some sort. Broodlords are the same type of unit but you don't see people complaining about those. Why? Because they are more pleasing to the eye. And they spawn units that don't cost anything so people see it as cool. Whereas being unprepared for them is just as detrimental as not being prepared for colossus. But broodlords are true A-movers. Colossus you can micro to save, micro to do more damage via target firing correct areas, cliff micro (with broods it's not micro. Just proper positioning over a cliff.) And to use them efficiently does require a large portion of your APM. But like said since they can A move kill armies people get pissed off. But when you think about what they actually elements they actually add to the game it makes for pretty interesting games that require micro and smart thinking from both sides. But anyway I hope this thread gets closed. Poll threads are frowned upon for a reason. Especially one like this which promotes balance whining and serves no other purpose (because people already know the majority answer to the question). | ||
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KingAce
United States471 Posts
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sunprince
United States2258 Posts
On May 14 2012 14:34 lorkac wrote: I'm a big believer in a tier 1 hydralisk (nerfed stats +decreased cost) and a tier 2 roach for double the price and double the stats. 32 damage and 2 armor for 150 mins and 50 gas. If we had Tier 1 hydralisks, we could also remove banelings and add lurkers back in Tier 2, and we could keep a modified Tier 1 roach. Something like 100 mins/50 gas, 2 armor, 22 damage, no Tunneling Claws, and 5 hp/sec regeneration burrowed or not. | ||
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