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Which unit would you most like to see removed? - Page 9

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0neder
Profile Joined July 2009
United States3733 Posts
May 14 2012 06:00 GMT
#161
On May 14 2012 12:53 jeffvip wrote:
Colossus, Marauder & Roach

This, but a good compromise would be to keep the roach but make it 1 supply again so zerg is more swarmy and battles feel bigger.
Froadac
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States6733 Posts
May 14 2012 06:00 GMT
#162
On May 14 2012 13:15 mMmSeizE wrote:
ya take the colossus out and watch how many protoss win then ... lloll

You'd have to compensate somehow of course, but I think mostly people highly dislike the unit design.
Gyro_SC2
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada540 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 06:03:08
May 14 2012 06:02 GMT
#163
baneling+infestor+VR
summerloud
Profile Joined March 2010
Austria1201 Posts
May 14 2012 06:03 GMT
#164
i would remove colossus and marauder and rework the roach (smaller, less HP, 1 supply) and also the hydra (smaller, less HP, 1.5 supply)

i think it would be awesome to give back zerg their swarmy feeling
Balgrog
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1221 Posts
May 14 2012 06:04 GMT
#165
For me it's collosus, marauder, and a serious damage nerf to banshee. I would love to see older units like the reaver, lurker, just something that is very strong, but you do need to have skill in it to actually make it viable.
The only way to attack structure is with chaos.
Bayyne
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1967 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 06:05:06
May 14 2012 06:04 GMT
#166
The mule should be included in that list. 'Other' just doesn't cut it.
Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment.
Xyik
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada728 Posts
May 14 2012 06:06 GMT
#167
Corruptors look cool but they're a boring unit that didn't really live up to what Blizzard had initially planned. I feel they should be changed somehow, but the reason they're the strong, 1-dimensional anti-air that they are is probably because of the Colossus. That aside, Marauders don't really make any sense and is one of the reasons that protoss tier 1 can't really fight terran tier 1 on even grounds. Same with the Roach. Both giant meatballs, essentially every race has dragoons now.
AxionSteel
Profile Joined January 2011
United States7754 Posts
May 14 2012 06:07 GMT
#168
Colossus, for obvious reasons.
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
May 14 2012 06:10 GMT
#169
On May 14 2012 14:53 GhandiEAGLE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 14:48 bittman wrote:
Man, people are so unimaginative when it comes to balance.

Removing a unit provides no solution, it just leaves a hole that most likely needs to be filled with a similar unit.

Why not simply (and I actually literally mean "simply") evolve the unit. The collosus has an interesting concept behind it as a cliff-walking AOE tier 3 unit, but it's never anything but a-move with occasional micro to make sure it doesn't derp into the opponent's army.

Do the same thing I suggest doing with the hydra: evolve it. Give it some abilities or a secondary purpose. At the moment single-purpose ability-less units are useless in the game. Not "useless" as in "Better remove them so we can put in a useful unit", but more "Why don't they just make this have variety like other units?".

I honestly wish no unit was removed, but rather that a lot more were added and that we had a huge mix of variety. Instead people think balance is practically the marine-zealot-zergling triangle and that the rest is almost superfluous. If the downside you see to having "many more units" is "hard to balance" then you're looking at this game wrong to begin with. If a unit is boring then it means something can definitely be changed.

I wish sc2 had more unit variety, not less =(


Exactly. This is why the Ghost used to be my favorite unit until Blizzard narrowed snipe to a specific usage (bad move there Blizz). So many things could be done with it in all matchups, it had interesting and fun spells that made the dynamic of the game change and kept things exciting. Oh yeah, it was also OP


It was a little OP =P

But again it's a common thing, it seems Blizzard struggles managing abilities in the game so generally they just nerf them to crap. I mean what goes through Blizzards heads at times?

-> Thor Strike Canon = interesting, but powerful
Blizz: "Oh, Thorzain looks OP with these. Should probably nerf them somewhat"
-> No-one ever uses strike canon anymore
Blizz: "Perfect, now we don't need to do anything more about the Thor"
D=!!!!

Basically, in my opinion, Blizzard are focusing so heavily on nerfing the powerful units of races without trying to raise the units that aren't viable. Name all the carrier and hydra buffs.

I hate to say it, but I really prefer the League of Legends approach. There's a huge cluster of over powered abilities, heroes, etc but in the midst there's some semblance of balance. By also refreshing rosters and even balance every few weeks they keep the metagame fresh and encourage evolution. By contrast it feels like Blizzards approach to SC2 is to one day get to a point where they never need to patch it again...then abandon it. Probably not and maybe a bit extreme, but it's the difference in appearance of commitment to the balance.

It's a shame, because I find SC2 so fun to watch, but it feels like they're playing with a dated balance model. Imagine starcraft as a fluid game that evolves at a constant rate to encourage and promote all strategies as viable whilst including new elements. It might just be my wish though that starcraft wasn't appearing to try to just hit a perfect balance point: because it doesn't exist.

But back on topic (and tl;dr): add to the game, don't detract from it. If every unit that people thought of as boring was removed we'd probably only have tanks, phoenixes and zerglings as units.
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
brokenLoL
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom419 Posts
May 14 2012 06:10 GMT
#170
Why at people choosing colossi? They're expensive and can easily be countered by Vikings or corrupters. If anything the Zergling should be removed. They're cheap, too cheap. No micro involved just A move. Queens can just inject and boom like 100 ling appear. Speaking of queens, they need to make it melee and less air damage.
Save me from myself
forsooth
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3648 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 06:11:10
May 14 2012 06:10 GMT
#171
On May 14 2012 15:00 0neder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 14 2012 12:53 jeffvip wrote:
Colossus, Marauder & Roach

This, but a good compromise would be to keep the roach but make it 1 supply again so zerg is more swarmy and battles feel bigger.

1 supply roaches would be insanely broken. We found this out during the beta.
Tppz!
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany1449 Posts
May 14 2012 06:11 GMT
#172
Colossus.. or just patch around him

also: reaper
TTDZurahn
Profile Joined February 2012
Canada6 Posts
May 14 2012 06:12 GMT
#173
Not having played Brood War, I don't have any attachments to units from the past, so for example when people want to keep the carrier because it's a "staple unit", I don't really care.

That said, the unit I dislike the most in the game are dark templar. They're almost intrinsically built to be gambles. Catch your opponent without detection and it just ends the game. Get them and they have detection, and it's a waste for the most part. I suppose the archon aspect is what's intended to add the versatility to the unit beyond just that, but overall it's largely used as a build and pray unit.
bubblegumbo
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Taiwan1296 Posts
May 14 2012 06:14 GMT
#174
Marauders and Collsi are the two most stupid and lazy unit designs I've ever seen, and are the reason why I am sick of watching SC2. The roach almost falls into this category if not for the food supply nerf long ago, otherwise zergs would just be massing them and just A-move while burrowing occasionally because hydras are so bad.
I play Terran and Marines + Marauders literally took away the most interesting part of being Terran back in BW: using spidermines intelligently and slow pushing as mech, instead we get stimmed bioball macro fests in every damn match-up.
"I honestly think that whoever invented toilet paper is a genius. For man to survive, they need toilet paper!"- Nal_rA
pzea469
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States1520 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 06:17:27
May 14 2012 06:15 GMT
#175
Here's my list of lame sc2 units.

Collosus sucks really bad, mostly because of what it replaced. It will never be squat compared to the Reaver. The cool things about the Collosus is that it's huge, it can climb cliffs, and it can be hit by air attacks. Unique stuff, but no one uses it's cliff walking since it sucks at being by itself. It can walk over ground units which means that balls become more balls in sc2, and on top of that it covers up the units below it, and the worst part is that if you make them you can never really transition to air since zerg and terran will make anti-air units to deal with the Collossus in the first place, so a completely different tech path is gone because of this lame unit.

Medivacs suck. Cool idea, but it's terrible. It means Terran will get them JUST for the healing ability since there is no alternative. If you made them not be able to transport units, Terran would still make them. What I hate about them, is that terran is going to always have them when they go bio, and then they have dropships without having to invest any minerals into drop tech. Mixing two different roles into one unit isn't good for this exact reason. This isn't a balance issue, it's just lame that getting dropships and getting medics is forced side by side. Not to make this into a bw chant, but in bw terrans would invest into getting multiple dropships. It was a real investment.

Infestor sucks. All of it's abilities suck. Fungal growth was kind of interesting when it was briefly changed to a projectile instead of instant. It's unavoidable and just boring to watch. "Great fungals by player X!". Really? Like it's that hard to do. It's instant... Then we got the infested marines, that makes not sense at all. They just hatch marines wearing armor. Just so lame, and they have timed life. BW did infesting semi-right, and SC2 had an interesting way of infesting terran buildings early on, but the way it is now is very lame. And the mindcontroll ability is also lame. It's timed, and it has a huge tube coming out of it, and idk, it's just not that cool. And just like the collosus, this unit replaced a very cool unit. I would say one thing that's cool is that it can move while burrowed, but in hots it looks like all zerg units can pretty much do that lol. It certainly looks cool though, and the slime trail it leaves is alright. The infestor once had a sick ability called fungal infestation. What happened to that?

I don't want SC2 to turn into bw, but seriously, it doesn't take a bw fanboy to realize that some units were replaced by much lamer units. And many of the SC2 units started a really sweet unit ideas but then they got worse and worse over time by nerfing/balancing and now we got this... What's crazy is that despite all that it's still a great game, so if it solved the whole lame units issue, it would be amazing.
Kill the Deathball
HaXXspetten
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Sweden15718 Posts
May 14 2012 06:15 GMT
#176
Remove Colossi and add Reavers. Problem solved.

I would also like to see some sort of creative remake for Marauders, as well as something that increases the skill cap for Mutalisk useage.
Confuse
Profile Joined October 2009
2238 Posts
May 14 2012 06:15 GMT
#177
The solution to cols sounds simple to me... add in a mothership'esque limiter (3?) stays in flavor of the protoss having limited resources, and never lets it become too abusive. to compensate for this, autoupgrade on the range? maybe im thinking too simplistically.
If we fear what we do not understand, then why is ignorance bliss?
Bomsta
Profile Joined May 2012
United States4 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-14 06:21:47
May 14 2012 06:16 GMT
#178
here's a thought, since colossus will never be removed why not give them some new nike's... and make colossus have a minimum attack range of like 2, i don't know if this has been mentioned before.

since it is a similar terran siege tank, but has none of the draw backs of a siege unit.. unlike the siege tank does not deal splash damage and can move but is susceptible to air which balances this out but this would realize some of the faults of the unit and be a start and rarely come into play anyway (a colossus at that height should not be able to fire laser beams in between it's feet in the first place!) most the time these ground units are kept away from colossus, so this would only make more sense and make it more balanced as a siege unit and comparable to the siege tank.
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
May 14 2012 06:16 GMT
#179
colossus/marauder/roach are pretty consistently at the top of polls like these
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
CcCFlu
Profile Joined February 2011
Switzerland68 Posts
May 14 2012 06:17 GMT
#180
where's the sentry?
seriously sentries are a pain in the ass for every zerg player =|
For the fucking sworm!!!
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