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Keep this civil, guys |
On May 05 2012 02:13 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:12 OmiDeLta wrote:On May 05 2012 02:08 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:06 OmiDeLta wrote:
Honestly...I don't see what's wrong with people saying what they want on their own streams. I may not agree with it, but their stream is their own stream - it's not in a professional environment. Now people who act unprofessionally during TOURNAMENTS (Idra swearing at Mana during IPL3 and Naniwa's infamous probe rush immediately come to mind)...that's bad and they're the ones who should be punished. What people do on their own streams is their business. I feel like this is Orb all over again. Why are so many people out to get players who do what they want on the privacy (ha!) of their own streams? It's not like you're forced to watch their stream. A player's stream is like his home - you are a guest there. Who are you to come barging in telling him what to say and how to act? It's HIS stream, not YOURS. So some guys are jerks on their streams - what's the big deal?? As long as they're professional in public, who cares?! What they do on their own time is none of anyone's business...well, that's my two cents anyway. A player's stream is not their home, it is public, viewed by thousands of people, and attracts as many people as television from time to time. There is already case law on this and you have no privacy protections for streaming and content you share over the internet is not considered a part of your private physical home. That was supposed to be a metaphor. ...Similie technically, since I used "like". The point is, nobody is forced to watch it, so why is everyone getting so hot and bothered? Yeah and nobody forces you to watch professional sports either, so why does everyone in society get bothered when athletes start saying racist things?
Not that I necessarily disagree in this particular instance, but using "well society cares" as an argument is pretty silly given how many dumb things society gets bothered about.
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On May 05 2012 02:10 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:08 partisan wrote:On May 05 2012 02:05 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:04 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:02 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:01 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:00 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:59 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 01:56 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:48 partisan wrote:
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Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors. I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal. Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different? It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position. Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron. Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both). That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad. I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so. Society punishes people who used racial slurs towards people in a public arena, that doesn't always mean getting fired, although it often does. There are tons of examples just over the last few years. Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom.
Then you don't care about people using racial slurs, noted. Some of us think they're completely inappropriate because there is no reason to use them unless you are a trying to a denigrate a person based on race.
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On May 05 2012 02:10 Shiori wrote:
Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom.
Remember Tiger Woods losing all of his promotional deals because he cheated on his wife?
Sponsorship is about image management, regardless of what your opinion of fairness is. If a company thinks they will lose more goodwill by being associated with you than not, they will drop you like a sack of potatoes.
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On May 05 2012 02:14 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:13 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:12 OmiDeLta wrote:On May 05 2012 02:08 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:06 OmiDeLta wrote:
Honestly...I don't see what's wrong with people saying what they want on their own streams. I may not agree with it, but their stream is their own stream - it's not in a professional environment. Now people who act unprofessionally during TOURNAMENTS (Idra swearing at Mana during IPL3 and Naniwa's infamous probe rush immediately come to mind)...that's bad and they're the ones who should be punished. What people do on their own streams is their business. I feel like this is Orb all over again. Why are so many people out to get players who do what they want on the privacy (ha!) of their own streams? It's not like you're forced to watch their stream. A player's stream is like his home - you are a guest there. Who are you to come barging in telling him what to say and how to act? It's HIS stream, not YOURS. So some guys are jerks on their streams - what's the big deal?? As long as they're professional in public, who cares?! What they do on their own time is none of anyone's business...well, that's my two cents anyway. A player's stream is not their home, it is public, viewed by thousands of people, and attracts as many people as television from time to time. There is already case law on this and you have no privacy protections for streaming and content you share over the internet is not considered a part of your private physical home. That was supposed to be a metaphor. ...Similie technically, since I used "like". The point is, nobody is forced to watch it, so why is everyone getting so hot and bothered? Yeah and nobody forces you to watch professional sports either, so why does everyone in society get bothered when athletes start saying racist things? Not that I necessarily disagree in this particular instance, but using "well society cares" as an argument is pretty silly given how many dumb things society gets bothered about.
Yeah because things that society worries about like racial inequality and the marginalization of minorities is so fucking trivial.
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On May 05 2012 02:16 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:10 Shiori wrote:
Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom. Remember Tiger Woods losing all of his promotional deals because he cheated on his wife? Sponsorship is about image management, regardless of what your opinion of fairness is. If a company thinks they will lose more goodwill by being associated with you than not, they will drop you like a sack of potatoes.
Bingo, well said.
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On May 05 2012 02:15 partisan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:10 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:08 partisan wrote:On May 05 2012 02:05 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:04 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:02 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:01 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:00 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:59 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 01:56 Shiori wrote:
[quote]
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal. Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different? It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position. Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron. Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both). That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad. I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so. Society punishes people who used racial slurs towards people in a public arena, that doesn't always mean getting fired, although it often does. There are tons of examples just over the last few years. Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom. Then you don't care about people using racial slurs, noted. Some of us think they're completely inappropriate because there is no reason to use them unless you are a trying to a denigrate a person based on race.
Depends, actually. If the President got up tomorrow and called Mexican immigrants "beaners," you can bet I'd have a problem with it. Similarly, if I were working and my boss told someone they were a "nigger," I'd have a problem with it. None of this, however, has anything to do with Destiny, and it's beginning to annoy me how people keep trying to label me as some sort of closet racist.
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On May 05 2012 02:16 bonifaceviii wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:10 Shiori wrote:
Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom. Remember Tiger Woods losing all of his promotional deals because he cheated on his wife? Sponsorship is about image management, regardless of what your opinion of fairness is. If a company thinks they will lose more goodwill by being associated with you than not, they will drop you like a sack of potatoes.
Or remember when the President of the fucking United States nearly got impeached for lying under oath about getting a blowjob from Monica Lewinsky?
PRIVATE AFFAIRS right?
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I find it funny how destiny was making fun of the DDOS'er saying that some of the things he says and talks about he would never own up to in real life, same can be said about 90% of the offensive things destiny says on his stream he wouldnt every say that in the real world so what makes it ok for him to say it online?
If he goes around saying 'nigger' and 'gook' out in public he wouldn't last a day without being confronted however behind his monitor he feels its ok knowing the threat is not there, I just find it amusing
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What's funny about Destiny is how he complains about TL being this and that, while forgetting that having his stream featured is a privilege and not a right.
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On May 05 2012 02:10 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:08 partisan wrote:On May 05 2012 02:05 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:04 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:02 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:01 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:00 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:59 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 01:56 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:48 partisan wrote:
[quote]
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors. I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal. Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different? It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position. Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron. Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both). That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad. I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so. Society punishes people who used racial slurs towards people in a public arena, that doesn't always mean getting fired, although it often does. There are tons of examples just over the last few years. Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom.
You're making this too complicated. No one wanted to shut down Destiny's stream. They wanted him to lose his sponsors. A lot of people in the SC2 community (including me) don't want to contribute to Destiny's income in any way. I own a Razor 360 controller. Even if I didn't, I may possibly buy something from them in the future. Rather than letting Destiny limit my choice of vendor, I decided to let the vendor know about the issue so that there's no future obstacles for my patronage. It's really that simple. Destiny will be fine. Look at all his fans pledging support to his stream.
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On May 05 2012 02:03 Doomwish wrote:
The corn harvest will be especially good this year.....
Hetus. Alte omnebus.
Virtu e poquebus.
Rectus. Hoc honebus
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On May 05 2012 02:13 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:12 OmiDeLta wrote:On May 05 2012 02:08 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:06 OmiDeLta wrote:
Honestly...I don't see what's wrong with people saying what they want on their own streams. I may not agree with it, but their stream is their own stream - it's not in a professional environment. Now people who act unprofessionally during TOURNAMENTS (Idra swearing at Mana during IPL3 and Naniwa's infamous probe rush immediately come to mind)...that's bad and they're the ones who should be punished. What people do on their own streams is their business. I feel like this is Orb all over again. Why are so many people out to get players who do what they want on the privacy (ha!) of their own streams? It's not like you're forced to watch their stream. A player's stream is like his home - you are a guest there. Who are you to come barging in telling him what to say and how to act? It's HIS stream, not YOURS. So some guys are jerks on their streams - what's the big deal?? As long as they're professional in public, who cares?! What they do on their own time is none of anyone's business...well, that's my two cents anyway. A player's stream is not their home, it is public, viewed by thousands of people, and attracts as many people as television from time to time. There is already case law on this and you have no privacy protections for streaming and content you share over the internet is not considered a part of your private physical home. That was supposed to be a metaphor. ...Similie technically, since I used "like". The point is, nobody is forced to watch it, so why is everyone getting so hot and bothered? Yeah and nobody forces you to watch professional sports either, so why does everyone in society get bothered when athletes start saying racist things?
Because that's a professional environment. A stream is not. Though I suppose that could be a matter of opinion.
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Look I don't agree with the words he uses but then again I don't agree with a lot of stuff people do. The guy has a right to say whatever he wants; obviously you can't when you represent someone/something that doesn't agree with it. The end result makes sense. Regardless, love or hate he has done a ton for the community.
Someone mentioned above the charity Sheth<my boy ('. ')Y> and Destiny did. How many people here have raised 30k(or some insane amount) of money for charity using essentially your popularity to do it?
I get people not liking him for what he says, I don't agree with it either, but I think it's silly he is being labeled as this really shitty person when he probably has done more for people than most. Destiny and Quantic parting ways was just a simple case of Cause & Effect.
What is crazy is how this community reacted to it. It's quite sad really. InControL's post about the ehtical way of dealing with this was imo the right way of going about it. If you honestly think a team would NOT act from complaints based on what has been said then you probably shouldn't be complaining in the first place from lack of understanding.
I just don't see why this community is going on about this still... It's done. The offended received the justice they wanted. Cheers and let's move on^^ Live and let live.
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On May 05 2012 02:17 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:15 partisan wrote:On May 05 2012 02:10 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:08 partisan wrote:On May 05 2012 02:05 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:04 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:02 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 02:01 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 02:00 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:59 adrenaLinG wrote:
[quote]
Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different? It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position. Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron. Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both). That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad. I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so. Society punishes people who used racial slurs towards people in a public arena, that doesn't always mean getting fired, although it often does. There are tons of examples just over the last few years. Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom. Then you don't care about people using racial slurs, noted. Some of us think they're completely inappropriate because there is no reason to use them unless you are a trying to a denigrate a person based on race. Depends, actually. If the President got up tomorrow and called Mexican immigrants "beaners," you can bet I'd have a problem with it. Similarly, if I were working and my boss told someone they were a "nigger," I'd have a problem with it. None of this, however, has anything to do with Destiny, and it's beginning to annoy me how people keep trying to label me as some sort of closet racist.
You're making a distinction without a difference. How does the hatred behind the word change based on the position of the person using it?
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Fans who want content for free drive away sponsors trying to offset the cost of providing content. News at 11.
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I wrote to Razor and Quantic both on the acquisition of Destiny, and in the recent events. I'm aware some people will throw hate at me for doing so, I don't care.
Having seen the decision that was made, I've written to both of them again, expressing happiness at their willingness to remove such harmful elements from our community, and giving them my personal support (for what it means from a nobody  ) and reaffirming my support for both.
Going to sponsors is only bad if you only go to them about negatives. I message sponsors on a monthly basis positive messages of thanks from ESPORTS, so I will do so when there's something to be negative about as well.
Destiny was right though, anybody who messaged about the negatives of him should go ahead and message them a thank you or something afterwards. Being a hate train is a bad thing.
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On May 05 2012 02:05 partisan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:01 Damrak wrote:On May 05 2012 01:59 adrenaLinG wrote:On May 05 2012 01:56 Shiori wrote:On May 05 2012 01:48 partisan wrote:On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote:
I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards. Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors. I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal. Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different? but its ok for rappers to this, cuz, you know, they are black? What? I don't think anyone has made that argument.
Well how come rappers can use it in their songs? Regardless of their skin color. I'm curious.
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On May 05 2012 02:17 adrenaLinG wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:16 bonifaceviii wrote:On May 05 2012 02:10 Shiori wrote:
Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom. Remember Tiger Woods losing all of his promotional deals because he cheated on his wife? Sponsorship is about image management, regardless of what your opinion of fairness is. If a company thinks they will lose more goodwill by being associated with you than not, they will drop you like a sack of potatoes. Or remember when the President of the fucking United States nearly got impeached for lying under oath about getting a blowjob from Monica Lewinsky? PRIVATE AFFAIRS right?
Yes, and that was exceedingly stupid as well. Both of these events were, actually. Technically Clinton's had more to do with the perjury than the blowjob, but yeah, dumb.
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EPT
