On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote: I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards.
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors.
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal.
Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different?
but its ok for rappers to this, cuz, you know, they are black?
What? I don't think anyone has made that argument.
On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote: I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards.
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors.
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal.
Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different?
I'm sure if the thousands of people watching it actually gave a shit about what he says or does ... he wouldn't have thousands of people watching. If you don't like what he does or says .... here's an idea .. don't fucking watch it. Genius idea or common sense? I'ld like to think it's common sense but apparently it's not so common.
I don't watch it, nor do I care about the immature people that watch his streams. But his sponsors care, and his racism matters, whether you like it or not.
On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote: I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards.
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors.
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal.
Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different?
It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position.
Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron.
Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both).
That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad.
I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so.
Honestly...I don't see what's wrong with people saying what they want on their own streams. I may not agree with it, but their stream is their own stream - it's not in a professional environment. Now people who act unprofessionally during TOURNAMENTS (Idra swearing at Mana during IPL3 and Naniwa's infamous probe rush immediately come to mind)...that's bad and they're the ones who should be punished. What people do on their own streams is their business. I feel like this is Orb all over again. Why are so many people out to get players who do what they want on the privacy (ha!) of their own streams? It's not like you're forced to watch their stream. A player's stream is like his home - you are a guest there. Who are you to come barging in telling him what to say and how to act? It's HIS stream, not YOURS. So some guys are jerks on their streams - what's the big deal?? As long as they're professional in public, who cares?! What they do on their own time is none of anyone's business...well, that's my two cents anyway.
On May 05 2012 02:05 bonifaceviii wrote: Wait a minute, Destiny only called the guy a gook because he was mad?
Stop the presses, that changes everything!!
I don't see why it wouldn't change everything. Do you take people's words the same way regardless of emotional context? Sounds like you're in for a surprise next time your wife tells you 'we need to talk.'
On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote: I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards.
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors.
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal.
Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different?
It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position.
Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron.
Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both).
That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad.
I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so.
Society punishes people who used racial slurs towards people in a public arena, that doesn't always mean getting fired, although it often does.
There are tons of examples just over the last few years.
On May 05 2012 02:06 OmiDeLta wrote: Honestly...I don't see what's wrong with people saying what they want on their own streams. I may not agree with it, but their stream is their own stream - it's not in a professional environment. Now people who act unprofessionally during TOURNAMENTS (Idra swearing at Mana during IPL3 and Naniwa's infamous probe rush immediately come to mind)...that's bad and they're the ones who should be punished. What people do on their own streams is their business. I feel like this is Orb all over again. Why are so many people out to get players who do what they want on the privacy (ha!) of their own streams? It's not like you're forced to watch their stream. A player's stream is like his home - you are a guest there. Who are you to come barging in telling him what to say and how to act? It's HIS stream, not YOURS. So some guys are jerks on their streams - what's the big deal?? As long as they're professional in public, who cares?! What they do on their own time is none of anyone's business...well, that's my two cents anyway.
A player's stream is not their home, it is public, viewed by thousands of people, and attracts as many people as television from time to time. There is already case law on this and you have no privacy protections for streaming and content you share over the internet is not considered a part of your private physical home.
I have a two opinions regarding these situations (orb and now Destiny):
1. I think it's great that the community is now big enough that prospective players/teams have to be careful with what they say. Becoming PC sucks, and I hate avoiding language simply because someone could be "offended" by the word I use, regardless of MY connotation, but I think it speaks to the growth of the community that this is now a concern.
2. I hate that the community has found this new power and is using it to intentionally destroy people. You don't only email the team manager, you don't send well-thought out letters to the player asking him to consider his actions a little more carefully, you don't make civil, but still poignant, threads about community actions. NO. You make hate threads. You dig for ANY past evidence, unconcerned with age of the event. You lambast and slander and send emails and tweets and letters of vitriol to sponsors until the ONLY option is to bury these figures. And you do these things because you think these people should suffer and because you can make them suffer. You're not fucking arbiters who both merit and execute the law.
Stop this shit, or this community will implode and you can be sure future eSports endeavors will never see the sponsorship dollars.
Just because you're offended by something that anyone says.... that doesn't make it offensive. If your world is one in which you are offended by a word, any string of words, then that is YOUR PROBLEM.
This whole mentality of people taking something that is their problem and pushing it onto the majority is everything that is wrong with this world. People think they're entitled to live in this pitch perfect fantasy paradise utopia where everything around them is clean and perfect. And when I started typing this I hadn't already made the connection but now as I do its pretty clear who else in history wanted to live in a pure clean and perfect society no matter who he took down on the way to get there.
It really is all the same thing. When we say how dangerous this "lynch mob" mentality is I'm not sure everyone understands how dangerously similar to the actual metaphor it is. Like I said before when you feel as tho you have the right to dictate what lives and what dies in this community how is that any different from an old KKK meeting where they decided to burn a church because they thought the blacks were hurting the community.
On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote: I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards.
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors.
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal.
Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different?
It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position.
Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron.
Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both).
That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad.
I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so.
Yeah, because this is what separates the good companies from the bad companies. If you want to work somewhere where people call each others niggers and faggots, and owned and ran by 99% white males, go right on ahead.
On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote: I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards.
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors.
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal.
Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different?
It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position.
Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron.
Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both).
That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad.
I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so.
Society punishes people who used racial slurs towards people in a public arena, that doesn't always mean getting fired, although it often does.
There are tons of examples just over the last few years.
Yes...and I'm saying I disagree with that, too, unless it happens on the job or when the speaker is officially acting in some capacity as the voice of the company. Athletes calling each other 'niggers' on the field is obviously problematic given its televised to an international audience. But if some paparazzo catches them saying 'nigger' on their home practice court? Don't care at all. Hell, Destiny's stream even had a content advisory warning at the bottom.
On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote: I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards.
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors.
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal.
I'm glad Destiny didn't get a pass. I don't care much about professionalism, I wish there was less of it, honestly. But attacking someone on their race should always be a big deal. I do not like that the community damaged Quantic by this incident, but I do not feel Destiny is a victim in this. That is not to say I will now forever brand Destiny an evil racist in my mind, people say stupid shit when angry. I wish him good luck in the rest of his career, and hope he will refrain from attacking people based on their race.
On May 05 2012 01:45 GloPikkle wrote: I don't really understand why people are defending Destiny given that his attitude over most of his controversial stuff has been "I do what I want". I don't think he ever didn't understand what the consequences might be, he just said that he didn't care. He doesn't really have anyone to blame but himself. Sensitive people will be sensitive, and some people will go further than others to rectify their perceived wrongs.
I think 95% of his BM is pretty funny, but if you're going to try to be edgier and more controversial, I think you also need to think about risk management. And honestly his risk management boiled down to "stfu I do what I want". Well, that's fine, but just don't expect that to be fine forever.
And yes, it IS indeed more professional to NOT be like that. Entertainers, athletes, politicians, anyone in the public eye is held to similar standards.
Because the cult of personality is a strong thing for some people. They don't understand why many people in the community think that his actions can be extremely damaging and that's why we contacted the team/sponsors.
I hate Destiny as a player and comedian, but nevertheless this was a massive abuse of community influence, and IMO what he said wasn't a big deal.
Saying nigger and gook and all sorts of racist shit is actually a big deal and you will get into shit if you say it in any other aspect of public life, so why should a public stream by an esports personality viewed by thousands of people be any different?
It shouldn't be a big deal anywhere, unless you're some sort of publicly funded position.
Yes, because casual racism is totally cool unless you're a politician! Moron.
Whether it's cool or otherwise, it's not worth getting fired over IMO, especially if it was part of an angry outburst or obvious comedy (this was both).
That's cool, tell that to the athletes and professionals that get reprimanded for shouting "niggers" every time they lose or get mad.
I don't think it's acceptable to fire those people. I'm not sure where you got the idea that I think so.
Yeah, because this is what separates the good companies from the bad companies. If you want to work somewhere where people call each others niggers and faggots, and owned and ran by 99% white males, go right on ahead.
On May 05 2012 02:06 OmiDeLta wrote: Honestly...I don't see what's wrong with people saying what they want on their own streams. I may not agree with it, but their stream is their own stream - it's not in a professional environment. Now people who act unprofessionally during TOURNAMENTS (Idra swearing at Mana during IPL3 and Naniwa's infamous probe rush immediately come to mind)...that's bad and they're the ones who should be punished. What people do on their own streams is their business. I feel like this is Orb all over again. Why are so many people out to get players who do what they want on the privacy (ha!) of their own streams? It's not like you're forced to watch their stream. A player's stream is like his home - you are a guest there. Who are you to come barging in telling him what to say and how to act? It's HIS stream, not YOURS. So some guys are jerks on their streams - what's the big deal?? As long as they're professional in public, who cares?! What they do on their own time is none of anyone's business...well, that's my two cents anyway.
A player's stream is not their home, it is public, viewed by thousands of people, and attracts as many people as television from time to time. There is already case law on this and you have no privacy protections for streaming and content you share over the internet is not considered a part of your private physical home.
That was supposed to be a metaphor. ...Similie technically, since I used "like". The point is, nobody is forced to watch it, so why is everyone getting so hot and bothered?
On May 05 2012 02:08 HolyExlxF wrote: I have a two opinions regarding these situations (orb and now Destiny):
1. I think it's great that the community is now big enough that prospective players/teams have to be careful with what they say. Becoming PC sucks, and I hate avoiding language simply because someone could be "offended" by the word I use, regardless of MY connotation, but I think it speaks to the growth of the community that this is now a concern.
2. I hate that the community has found this new power and is using it to intentionally destroy people. You don't only email the team manager, you don't send well-thought out letters to the player asking him to consider his actions a little more carefully, you don't make civil, but still poignant, threads about community actions. NO. You make hate threads. You dig for ANY past evidence, unconcerned with age of the event. You lambast and slander and send emails and tweets and letters of vitriol to sponsors until the ONLY option is to bury these figures. And you do these things because you think these people should suffer and because you can make them suffer. You're not fucking arbiters who both merit and execute the law.
Stop this shit, or this community will implode and you can be sure future eSports endeavors will never see the sponsorship dollars.
Quit being so naive, you think the sponsor will never find out about this kind of behavior as long as nobody makes a thread on TL about it? You seriously think it will be better for someone outside the community to approach a sponsor about this? The idea that this is hurting the community is hilarious.
All it takes it one really well publicized incident of a player being a racist/bigot/etc to get the entire community labeled. The only way we stop that is to put pressure on teams or players to stop that from happening.
On May 05 2012 02:06 OmiDeLta wrote: Honestly...I don't see what's wrong with people saying what they want on their own streams. I may not agree with it, but their stream is their own stream - it's not in a professional environment. Now people who act unprofessionally during TOURNAMENTS (Idra swearing at Mana during IPL3 and Naniwa's infamous probe rush immediately come to mind)...that's bad and they're the ones who should be punished. What people do on their own streams is their business. I feel like this is Orb all over again. Why are so many people out to get players who do what they want on the privacy (ha!) of their own streams? It's not like you're forced to watch their stream. A player's stream is like his home - you are a guest there. Who are you to come barging in telling him what to say and how to act? It's HIS stream, not YOURS. So some guys are jerks on their streams - what's the big deal?? As long as they're professional in public, who cares?! What they do on their own time is none of anyone's business...well, that's my two cents anyway.
A player's stream is not their home, it is public, viewed by thousands of people, and attracts as many people as television from time to time. There is already case law on this and you have no privacy protections for streaming and content you share over the internet is not considered a part of your private physical home.
That was supposed to be a metaphor. ...Similie technically, since I used "like". The point is, nobody is forced to watch it, so why is everyone getting so hot and bothered?
Yeah and nobody forces you to watch professional sports either, so why does everyone in society get bothered when athletes start saying racist things?
EPT
yeah just lighten up. Were only human.
