On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote: Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world. And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead.
BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it.
BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future.
If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive.
I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left.
Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history .
Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear.
Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination.
But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
So much hate for a game that is easily worthy of having the baton of BW to carry forward. Ive said before I dont like that BW had to go but if it did im glad its going to sc2 and not LoL(despite my love for the people at Riot) or an entirely different genre. The game is not BW and frankly im glad at that because you cant copy what something else does and do it better. SC2 decided to take what they thought was good keep get rid of what they thought was useless and add a taste of there own. I will admit not all of it is to my liking but then again not all of BW was to my liking either (worst unit AI ever).
I say that bit not to start a flame war, but to explain why its not surprising to hear that someone like Flash would enjoy playing SC2. The similarities probably gave him a feeling of familiarity but some of the changes might have grown on him(once he realized what they were). To me the best part of BW was by far watching the battles and while I am/was very impressed by the BW pro's amazing macro that wasnt the most exciting part of the game. The most exciting part of the game was watching the units collide and that was the main thing that I think BW still does better but I look forward to seeing if that was merely execution.
Not even close. At least LoL is not trying to mock BW by touting itself as its successor, although Dota fans might like to have a word with Riot.
Its not trying to mock BW. It is the successor one way or another and honestly the game deserves it more than any other.
On April 26 2012 21:59 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Esports isnt 1 game, but community's joined by the cause of fighting to be the best with fans all over the world cheering.
E-sports is the fact of playing a game competitively, nothing to do with fans or cheering, just the matter of people competing regularly enough so that they feel the need to practice ... and therefore act like any more "common" sports
That's competitive gaming then (which is what every western "esport" always is/was anyway).
On April 26 2012 22:02 Epoch wrote: sc2 is good enough for flash to enjoy, but not the bw elitists. funny
Nada likes LoL and thinks it's fun but not for sc2 elitists really funny man :D .
LoL is a fun game and one that suceeded with a business model that I actually laughed at when I heard it a few years ago. I am incapable of watching LoL but I can understand how it is so much fun to play.
Doubt it will happen at all personally. In SC2 there's pretty much always the chance that a lesser player will beat a better one, which makes it damn hard to win *everything*. But sure, DRG has done great except for a short dip this year though, with two big tournament wins and taking 2nd place in the other two, but it's pretty much impossible to win everything.
And that is a good thing. Soccer is the most popular sport in the world and one reason for that is that the better team NOT always wins. Its a low scoring game and upsets can happen. Thats what it makes it so appealing. It makes it exciting, that on any given day the underdog can upset the better team. At least that is my opinion.
On April 26 2012 21:59 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Esports isnt 1 game, but community's joined by the cause of fighting to be the best with fans all over the world cheering.
E-sports is the fact of playing a game competitively, nothing to do with fans or cheering, just the matter of people competing regularly enough so that they feel the need to practice ... and therefore act like any more "common" sports
That's competitive gaming then (which is what every western "esport" always is/was anyway).
e-sports and competitive gaming are pretty much the same thing. Only distinction I think of would be that "e-sports" designate the different disciplines (SC2 / LOL/ DOTA etc ...) just like you got football / basketball / tennis / athleticism designated by the word "sports" Competitive gaming would be a more generalist way to qualify all these together.
The reason why no pro BW player would play protoss is simple. Since protoss is a more strategic race in sc2. Its not like protoss is really skill based in sc2 due to warpgate and collosi.
On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote: Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world. And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead.
BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it.
BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future.
If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive.
I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left.
Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history .
Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear.
Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination.
But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
So much hate for a game that is easily worthy of having the baton of BW to carry forward. Ive said before I dont like that BW had to go but if it did im glad its going to sc2 and not LoL(despite my love for the people at Riot) or an entirely different genre. The game is not BW and frankly im glad at that because you cant copy what something else does and do it better. SC2 decided to take what they thought was good keep get rid of what they thought was useless and add a taste of there own. I will admit not all of it is to my liking but then again not all of BW was to my liking either (worst unit AI ever).
I say that bit not to start a flame war, but to explain why its not surprising to hear that someone like Flash would enjoy playing SC2. The similarities probably gave him a feeling of familiarity but some of the changes might have grown on him(once he realized what they were). To me the best part of BW was by far watching the battles and while I am/was very impressed by the BW pro's amazing macro that wasnt the most exciting part of the game. The most exciting part of the game was watching the units collide and that was the main thing that I think BW still does better but I look forward to seeing if that was merely execution.
Not even close. At least LoL is not trying to mock BW by touting itself as its successor, although Dota fans might like to have a word with Riot.
Its not trying to mock BW. It is the successor one way or another and honestly the game deserves it more than any other.
You're right. It mocked BW without even trying.
"hark back to the legacy" my ass.
You're not even trying to be sensible, you're just bashing the game. Punch a pillow or something instead of taking your frustration out in here.
On April 26 2012 22:09 Rainmansc wrote: The reason why no pro BW player would play protoss is simple. Since protoss is a more strategic race in sc2. Its not like protoss is really skill based in sc2 due to warpgate and collosi.
I dont think so. BW protoss was far more strategic and more micro intensive. Reavers actually take micro to be taken full advantage of... colossus is basically the replacement of reaver. It already suceeeds where it lacks with the mobility and no reload shots. Fully upgraded colossus has enough attack damage to consider it half a psi storm damage each swipe.
And the decision makign is still fucking important in BW. just because in SC2 a retarded ape can have good mechanics doesnt mean the decisions are like 5000 times more important then in BW now.
So where you disagree on that Toss is far easier in sc2 then in sc1? The whole warpgate makes it that you can instantly make the units you need at that point. While before a good player would separate from a bad player by making better decisions on PRODUCING units.
On April 26 2012 22:09 Rainmansc wrote: The reason why no pro BW player would play protoss is simple. Since protoss is a more strategic race in sc2. Its not like protoss is really skill based in sc2 due to warpgate and collosi.
I dont think so. BW protoss was far more strategic and more micro intensive. Reavers actually take micro to be taken full advantage of... colossus is basically the replacement of reaver. It already suceeeds where it lacks with the mobility and no reload shots. Fully upgraded colossus has enough attack damage to consider it half a psi storm damage each swipe.
you effectively said the same thing he did, with a different viewpoint. -
I'm sure there will be protoss bw switchovers. And I'm sure they'll add more micro than we currently use, JUST as more micro play would develop over time even if NO bw pros switched over. The bigger problem i see is that we're playing an incomplete game.
On April 26 2012 22:20 Rainmansc wrote: So where you disagree on that Toss is far easier in sc2 then in sc1? The whole warpgate makes it that you can instantly make the units you need at that point. While before a good player would separate from a bad player by making better decisions on PRODUCING units.
But terran couldn't switch tech like a mad man back then and not even zerg was not so all over the place.
On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote: Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world. And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead.
BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it.
BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future.
If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive.
I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left.
Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history .
Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear.
Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination.
But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
So much hate for a game that is easily worthy of having the baton of BW to carry forward. Ive said before I dont like that BW had to go but if it did im glad its going to sc2 and not LoL(despite my love for the people at Riot) or an entirely different genre. The game is not BW and frankly im glad at that because you cant copy what something else does and do it better. SC2 decided to take what they thought was good keep get rid of what they thought was useless and add a taste of there own. I will admit not all of it is to my liking but then again not all of BW was to my liking either (worst unit AI ever).
I say that bit not to start a flame war, but to explain why its not surprising to hear that someone like Flash would enjoy playing SC2. The similarities probably gave him a feeling of familiarity but some of the changes might have grown on him(once he realized what they were). To me the best part of BW was by far watching the battles and while I am/was very impressed by the BW pro's amazing macro that wasnt the most exciting part of the game. The most exciting part of the game was watching the units collide and that was the main thing that I think BW still does better but I look forward to seeing if that was merely execution.
Not even close. At least LoL is not trying to mock BW by touting itself as its successor, although Dota fans might like to have a word with Riot.
Its not trying to mock BW. It is the successor one way or another and honestly the game deserves it more than any other.
You're right. It mocked BW without even trying.
"hark back to the legacy" my ass.
You're not even trying to be sensible, you're just bashing the game. Punch a pillow or something instead of taking your frustration out in here.
Nah man, let him continue making an ass out of himself. It's obvious to anyone without a bias that he's just frustrated ---> causing the bitching and whining. Let him wallow in his misery, victim-based mentality.
To the rest of us, it's inevitable. Times are changing and the BW pros ARE coming.
On April 26 2012 22:09 Rainmansc wrote: The reason why no pro BW player would play protoss is simple. Since protoss is a more strategic race in sc2. Its not like protoss is really skill based in sc2 due to warpgate and collosi.
On April 26 2012 22:09 Rainmansc wrote: The reason why no pro BW player would play protoss is simple. Since protoss is a more strategic race in sc2. Its not like protoss is really skill based in sc2 due to warpgate and collosi.
When will the protoss bashing stop... If protoss is the easy race, why don't you play it and win a GSL for us? Please, stop with the endless stream of complaints.
EPT
