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On April 26 2012 15:50 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 14:46 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world.
And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead. BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it. BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future. If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive. I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left. Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history . Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear. Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination. But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
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I like how most of the sc2 community is all happy and hyped about this switch, but at the same time the people in the community that doesn't have any bonds to BW progaming and the players, hate the fact that sc2 is so dominant by koreans right now and they are starting to lose interest in tournaments when foreigners doesn't have a chance. This is just another thing that will push the foreigner scene down the drain in the long run.
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I find it awkward that TL is putting a Flash thread in SC2. I dwell on both sides of the SC fence, but I'd imagine BW people feeling slighted about this. Flash is still a BW player, and as such should be in the BW sections with his fans.
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Flash will own it up and become the first bonjwa of sc2.
As for all you fools who are posting rubbish regarding bw compared to sc2, please hush down, the butthurt attitude is getting old now and quite frankly, looking quite pathetic considering most of you are fairly average - bad bw players....
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On April 26 2012 21:31 Inori wrote:I find Flash enjoying sc2 the biggest, most ironic joke anybody could've played on BW fanboys in response to their endless elitism and snobism. Such a good news overall 
Haha, quite.
BW fanboys thinking themselves better than everyone else because... ???
A lot of Sc2 fans also watch and enjoy BW as well, it makes me sick that people can be so arrogant,
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Yes, he's sticking to terran~
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5 bonjwa's in BW. None in Sc2 yet. Then Flash switches.
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On April 26 2012 21:28 Gosi wrote:
I like how most of the sc2 community is all happy and hyped about this switch, but at the same time the people in the community that doesn't have any bonds to BW progaming and the players, hate the fact that sc2 is so dominant by koreans right now and they are starting to lose interest in tournaments when foreigners doesn't have a chance. This is just another thing that will push the foreigner scene down the drain in the long run.
Yeah, it's pretty funny, but seriously...don't try to understand this foreigner thing, it's just stupid.
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On April 26 2012 21:13 EasyPush wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 20:47 Eurytos wrote:On April 26 2012 19:49 Chocobo wrote:On April 26 2012 19:39 sereniity wrote:On April 26 2012 19:28 Vond wrote:On April 26 2012 18:45 Big J wrote:On April 26 2012 18:24 ReaperX wrote:
sc2 bonjwa inc DRG is already out of Code S this season, so he can't win another title. Will be quite some time until someone can be bonjwa, hardly anyone is really dominating right now. Doubt it will happen at all personally. In SC2 there's pretty much always the chance that a lesser player will beat a better one, which makes it damn hard to win *everything*. But sure, DRG has done great except for a short dip this year though, with two big tournament wins and taking 2nd place in the other two, but it's pretty much impossible to win everything. I don't really understand... Flash is considered a bonjwa, yet his win ratio is around the 70% mark? Doesn't that mean that there's always a chance that a lesser player will beat a better one? Yes, there is always a chance. But in SC2 the chance is larger. BTW a player who wins 70% of his games is actually about 85% to win a Bo3 and almost 97% to win a Bo5. Actually a player who wins 70 % of his games is : WW = 0.49 WLW = 0.147 LWW = 0.147 has a probability of winning 78.4% of winning a Bo3 In the case of Bo5 : WWW = 0.343 LWWW WLWW = 3x0.1029 WWLW LLWWW WLLWW WWLLW = 6x0.03087 LWLWW LWWLW WLWLW has a probability of winning 74.4431% of winning a Bo5 Assumptions : 70 percent win rate evenly distributed across 3 races. This math is wrong. A player with a win rate over 50% can't be less likely to win a BO5 than a BO3. Don't have time to calculate the real number now though. Edit: It seems you only summed the numbers wrong in the Bo5 case. The answer is: 83,7%
Yeah i summed it wrong  Was wondering why a bo 5 is less likely for the better player to win. Was at a rush so didn't have time to check. Good spot though and thanks!!
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On April 26 2012 21:26 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 15:50 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 14:46 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world.
And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead. BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it. BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future. If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive. I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left. Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history . Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear. Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination. But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/ I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should. You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon. So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
Hm let´s turn this BW vs SC2 thing around for a minute. Imagine if SC2 don´t call "Starcraft" but "Humans and Aliens vs Zurg". It would be exactly the same game but with a different name. Would there so much hate? I think most of the BW fans would be sad but saying "hey good luck Flash, i think BW is better but maybe the other game is fun too". I mean what if TBLS would play LoL or Minesweeper how bad would that be ?!?
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Flash will own it up and become the first bonjwa of sc2.
![[image loading]](http://i2.listal.com/image/3170297/500full.jpg)
User was warned for this post
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On April 26 2012 21:26 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 15:50 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 14:46 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world.
And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead. BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it. BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future. If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive. I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left. Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history . Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear. Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination. But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/ I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should. You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon. So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
So much hate for a game that is easily worthy of having the baton of BW to carry forward. Ive said before I dont like that BW had to go but if it did im glad its going to sc2 and not LoL(despite my love for the people at Riot) or an entirely different genre. The game is not BW and frankly im glad at that because you cant copy what something else does and do it better. SC2 decided to take what they thought was good keep get rid of what they thought was useless and add a taste of there own. I will admit not all of it is to my liking but then again not all of BW was to my liking either (worst unit AI ever).
I say that bit not to start a flame war, but to explain why its not surprising to hear that someone like Flash would enjoy playing SC2. The similarities probably gave him a feeling of familiarity but some of the changes might have grown on him(once he realized what they were). To me the best part of BW was by far watching the battles and while I am/was very impressed by the BW pro's amazing macro that wasnt the most exciting part of the game. The most exciting part of the game was watching the units collide and that was the main thing that I think BW still does better but I look forward to seeing if that was merely execution.
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On April 26 2012 21:40 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 21:26 jpak wrote:On April 26 2012 15:50 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 14:46 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world.
And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead. BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it. BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future. If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive. I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left. Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history . Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear. Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination. But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/ I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should. You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon. So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor. Hm let´s turn this BW vs SC2 thing around for a minute. Imagine if SC2 don´t call "Starcraft" but "Humans and Aliens vs Zurg". It would be exactly the same game but with a different name. Would there so much hate? I think most of the BW fans would be sad but saying "hey good luck Flash, i think BW is better but maybe the other game is fun too". I mean what if TBLS would play LoL or Minesweeper how bad would that be ?!?
If SC2 was named something else, there would be no "ESPORTS."
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On April 26 2012 21:40 USvBleakill wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 21:26 jpak wrote:On April 26 2012 15:50 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 14:46 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world.
And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead. BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it. BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future. If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive. I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left. Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history . Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear. Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination. But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/ I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should. You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon. So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor. Hm let´s turn this BW vs SC2 thing around for a minute. Imagine if SC2 don´t call "Starcraft" but "Humans and Aliens vs Zurg". It would be exactly the same game but with a different name. Would there so much hate? I think most of the BW fans would be sad but saying "hey good luck Flash, i think BW is better but maybe the other game is fun too". I mean what if TBLS would play LoL or Minesweeper how bad would that be ?!?
Minesweeper have a competitive scene ? Oh really ? LoL ? Now that's a game where I would like to support my pro's going over not only the scene is thriving with life and new blood . The hype about the game is so good there is a chance that they will be able to get huge sponsorship throughout their whole career . Imagine if sc2 is actually call Space Opera 2 and publish into the market ? How well would it be .. Also I find it really ironic when gamespot reviewed Total Annihilation : Kingdom the editor criticised the genre for not exceeding it's preceding game and as a successor it failed so hard .
Now if I open sc2 review on gamespot do I see this harsh calculated criticism ? What about the game having the same old make building, collect resource , make units and win ? Isn't it the same ? . I just like to add to the fact that who ever has money to throw to game reviewers the game will have sweet 9/10 with an additional editor choice to come with it .
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50641 Posts
On April 26 2012 21:44 jpak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 21:40 USvBleakill wrote:On April 26 2012 21:26 jpak wrote:On April 26 2012 15:50 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 14:46 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world.
And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead. BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it. BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future. If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive. I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left. Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history . Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear. Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination. But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/ I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should. You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon. So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor. Hm let´s turn this BW vs SC2 thing around for a minute. Imagine if SC2 don´t call "Starcraft" but "Humans and Aliens vs Zurg". It would be exactly the same game but with a different name. Would there so much hate? I think most of the BW fans would be sad but saying "hey good luck Flash, i think BW is better but maybe the other game is fun too". I mean what if TBLS would play LoL or Minesweeper how bad would that be ?!? If SC2 was named something else, there would be no "ESPORTS."
yep, if it wasn't called SC2 then we wouldn't be talking about this at all.- STX Coach
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On April 26 2012 21:42 Adreme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 26 2012 21:26 jpak wrote:On April 26 2012 15:50 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 15:23 Sawamura wrote:On April 26 2012 14:46 TheToast wrote:On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote:
Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world.
And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead. BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it. BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future. If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive. I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left. Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history . Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear. Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination. But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/ I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should. You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon. So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor. So much hate for a game that is easily worthy of having the baton of BW to carry forward. Ive said before I dont like that BW had to go but if it did im glad its going to sc2 and not LoL(despite my love for the people at Riot) or an entirely different genre. The game is not BW and frankly im glad at that because you cant copy what something else does and do it better. SC2 decided to take what they thought was good keep get rid of what they thought was useless and add a taste of there own. I will admit not all of it is to my liking but then again not all of BW was to my liking either (worst unit AI ever). I say that bit not to start a flame war, but to explain why its not surprising to hear that someone like Flash would enjoy playing SC2. The similarities probably gave him a feeling of familiarity but some of the changes might have grown on him(once he realized what they were). To me the best part of BW was by far watching the battles and while I am/was very impressed by the BW pro's amazing macro that wasnt the most exciting part of the game. The most exciting part of the game was watching the units collide and that was the main thing that I think BW still does better but I look forward to seeing if that was merely execution.
Not even close. At least LoL is not trying to mock BW by touting itself as its successor, although Dota fans might like to have a word with Riot.
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What I thought when I saw this thread
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qd8Av.jpg)
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EPT
