On April 26 2012 21:31 Inori wrote: I find Flash enjoying sc2 the biggest, most ironic joke anybody could've played on BW fanboys in response to their endless elitism and snobism.
Such a good news overall
Haha, quite.
BW fanboys thinking themselves better than everyone else because... ???
A lot of Sc2 fans also watch and enjoy BW as well, it makes me sick that people can be so arrogant,
We don't think that we are better than you, but we think that we understand both games better, and the general concept of StarCraft.
On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote: Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world. And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead.
BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it.
BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future.
If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive.
I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left.
Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history .
Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear.
Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination.
But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
Hm let´s turn this BW vs SC2 thing around for a minute. Imagine if SC2 don´t call "Starcraft" but "Humans and Aliens vs Zurg". It would be exactly the same game but with a different name. Would there so much hate? I think most of the BW fans would be sad but saying "hey good luck Flash, i think BW is better but maybe the other game is fun too". I mean what if TBLS would play LoL or Minesweeper how bad would that be ?!?
If SC2 was named something else, there would be no "ESPORTS."
What need a game to be "ESports"? Fans? Professional Players? Perfect Balance? Counterstrike(Source) is discussed forever, Quake seems to be wired with the Browserthing and all MOBA games are still at beta in term of balance.
Please call me some examples for ESport games and why.
On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote: Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world. And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead.
BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it.
BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future.
If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive.
I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left.
Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history .
Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear.
Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination.
But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
Hm let´s turn this BW vs SC2 thing around for a minute. Imagine if SC2 don´t call "Starcraft" but "Humans and Aliens vs Zurg". It would be exactly the same game but with a different name. Would there so much hate? I think most of the BW fans would be sad but saying "hey good luck Flash, i think BW is better but maybe the other game is fun too". I mean what if TBLS would play LoL or Minesweeper how bad would that be ?!?
If SC2 was named something else, there would be no "ESPORTS."
What need a game to be "ESports"? Fans? Professional Players? Perfect Balance? Counterstrike(Source) is discussed forever, Quake seems to be wired with the Browserthing and all MOBA games are still at beta in term of balance.
Please call me some examples for ESport games and why.
Why do we need to call games esports anyways? Can't we just let LoL be LoL, SC2 be SC2 and BW be BW? Why esports?
On April 26 2012 21:31 Inori wrote: I find Flash enjoying sc2 the biggest, most ironic joke anybody could've played on BW fanboys in response to their endless elitism and snobism.
Such a good news overall
Haha, quite.
BW fanboys thinking themselves better than everyone else because... ???
A lot of Sc2 fans also watch and enjoy BW as well, it makes me sick that people can be so arrogant,
We don't think that we are better than you, but we think that we understand both games better, and the general concept of StarCraft.
i seriously ve to doubt that..and thats me coming from a bw point of view :3
On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote: Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world. And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead.
BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it.
BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future.
If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive.
I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left.
Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history .
Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear.
Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination.
But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
Hm let´s turn this BW vs SC2 thing around for a minute. Imagine if SC2 don´t call "Starcraft" but "Humans and Aliens vs Zurg". It would be exactly the same game but with a different name. Would there so much hate? I think most of the BW fans would be sad but saying "hey good luck Flash, i think BW is better but maybe the other game is fun too". I mean what if TBLS would play LoL or Minesweeper how bad would that be ?!?
If SC2 was named something else, there would be no "ESPORTS."
What need a game to be "ESports"? Fans? Professional Players? Perfect Balance? Counterstrike(Source) is discussed forever, Quake seems to be wired with the Browserthing and all MOBA games are still at beta in term of balance.
Please call me some examples for ESport games and why.
Why do we need to call games esports anyways? Can't we just let LoL be LoL, SC2 be SC2 and BW be BW? Why esports?
Games are Games. E-Sports is the fact of playing those game competitively.
Stilllllllllllll not understanding the comparison between BW/SC2 and LoL. Different genre guys. Just because it started as a custom map in an RTS it doesn't make it an RTS game. Requires a completely different skillset. To be honest if my favorite SC players started playing LoL competitively instead I wouldn't even bother watching despite liking the players because the stuff that makes me enjoy watching them in SC wouldn't be there. So in that regard I kind of understand how the people that have stuck with the BW community feel. BW and SC2 have pretty big differences and it's entirely possible for someone to love BW and hate SC2 because one of the more enjoyable aspects (to them) is missing. For me, watching LoL is about as fun as taking an icepick to the face, so I understand how you feel.
That said, all this hate on StarCraft 2 and claiming it's not worthy of carrying on the name of StarCraft and all that nonsense is just that, nonsense. Brood War is a great game, I don't think any reasonable person will dispute that, but so is StarCraft 2. It's just a different game. We'll have to see what happens when the BW pros switch over, but I personally am glad that they're starting to, it'll speed up the innovation and love it or hate it the current eSports community wins. SC2 is here to stay, and we can either embrace it and prosper from it's success or we can sit around talking about the good old days, shake our canes, and drink our glass of metamucle and wait to die. Like it or not those are pretty much our options.
Someone needs to get hold of his account name and match history, approach one of his opponents, get a replay and send it to Day9. I know this is possible, we just need to put some good sc2 detectives on the case.
On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote: Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world. And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead.
BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it.
BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future.
If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive.
I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left.
Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history .
Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear.
Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination.
But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
Hm let´s turn this BW vs SC2 thing around for a minute. Imagine if SC2 don´t call "Starcraft" but "Humans and Aliens vs Zurg". It would be exactly the same game but with a different name. Would there so much hate? I think most of the BW fans would be sad but saying "hey good luck Flash, i think BW is better but maybe the other game is fun too". I mean what if TBLS would play LoL or Minesweeper how bad would that be ?!?
If SC2 was named something else, there would be no "ESPORTS."
What need a game to be "ESports"? Fans? Professional Players? Perfect Balance? Counterstrike(Source) is discussed forever, Quake seems to be wired with the Browserthing and all MOBA games are still at beta in term of balance.
Please call me some examples for ESport games and why.
Electronic Sports, so pretty much computer based applications. And it's just a classification anyway. Like how Winter sports exists as well to group the winter based sports together.
On April 26 2012 21:59 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Esports isnt 1 game, but community's joined by the cause of fighting to be the best with fans all over the world cheering.
E-sports is the fact of playing a game competitively, nothing to do with fans or cheering, just the matter of people competing regularly enough so that they feel the need to practice ... and therefore act like any more "common" sports
On April 26 2012 21:31 Inori wrote: I find Flash enjoying sc2 the biggest, most ironic joke anybody could've played on BW fanboys in response to their endless elitism and snobism.
Such a good news overall
Haha, quite.
BW fanboys thinking themselves better than everyone else because... ???
A lot of Sc2 fans also watch and enjoy BW as well, it makes me sick that people can be so arrogant,
We don't think that we are better than you, but we think that we understand both games better, and the general concept of StarCraft.
I'm trying to look at your comment in different ways but it just keeps sounding arrogant and elitist to me. BW fans understand the game better (even if they don't play or watch it), so their opinions are worth more, so sc2 fans should just stay quiet and listen to the adults. I don't see your reasoning ending up anywhere but there.
On April 26 2012 21:31 Inori wrote: I find Flash enjoying sc2 the biggest, most ironic joke anybody could've played on BW fanboys in response to their endless elitism and snobism.
Such a good news overall
Haha, quite.
BW fanboys thinking themselves better than everyone else because... ???
A lot of Sc2 fans also watch and enjoy BW as well, it makes me sick that people can be so arrogant,
We don't think that we are better than you, but we think that we understand both games better, and the general concept of StarCraft.
i seriously ve to doubt that..and thats me coming from a bw point of view :3
How you claim to know starcraft better by playing only the last game. A BW player has a wider set of experiences so he can joggle with a lot more ideas.
On April 26 2012 08:14 blubbdavid wrote: Don't pay attention to ZNF and ZoW, they life in their own world. And I like how it is good for ESPORTS now that BW is dead.
BW will never be dead as long as there's a community still interested in the game and continuing to support it.
BW in Proleague may be nearing an end, but there's no reason why the entire BW community has to go with it. I'm getting tired of reading from BW fans who are saying that the game is dead and they are leaving the community just because the Korean pro-BW scene is in decline. There's no reason why the game can't still be played and enjoyed, there's no reason why the community can't organize their own tournaments and events, there's no reason that the whole following has to die just because Proleague is going to be switching to a different game in the future.
If you still love BW and want to see it survive, stop the QQing and get to work! Pro Warcraft 3 died a long time ago (not that there was much of a scene to begin with), but there are still active WC3 communities out there. Hell, even TL has a small group of WC3 players, and the group has actually been growing. Just because my orc hero Grubby now plays SC2 doesn't mean I can't still play and enjoy the game--doesn't mean I don't still love the game. It just means that maybe it takes more work now to keep a community together, maybe it just means that the community members have to work a little harder and organize a little more to keep the game they love alive.
I'll say it: if BW dies, it won't be because Pro League switched to a SC2 format. If BW dies, it will be because the community let it die, it will be because the community threw up their arms in frustration and shuffled away, cursing at SC2 as they left.
Nah dude, most of us don't have time to play games any more and even though we did try to promote bw any more . New blood will not keep the scene alive not when there is other casual friendly games out there . If bw is to die than let it die gracefully it's the only RTS to last 12 years in history .
Well... then don't complain about BW dying. If you all aren't willing to do what it takes and come together as a community to save it, well then maybe it deserves to disappear.
Honestly, the BW community has been spoiled. For 12 years the community has been spoon-fed well produced pro games of the highest caliber with the greatest of personalities and players from several different leagues. The pro scene has recruited new community members for you, constantly provided new content, new topics of discussion, new ideas, new strategies, etc. Few if any other gaming communities have ever gotten that level of support from an outside organization. Most struggle to develop, to bring in new players, and to keep new content flowing in. But many still manage to do so, and they do it without a highly funded Korean pro-scene. Hell, many MMO gaming communities still survive long after the official servers were taken down. It's not impossible for a community to be self driven, just requires a certain determination.
But if you all want to give up without a fight, so be it. Just remember to turn the lights off after you leave. :/
I complain because the game that basically replaced BW is a game not worthy of its name. Despite the hopes that everyone here has for TBLS and Korean BW scene sparking the SC2 scene in Korea, I only see it crashing and burning in the days to come, as it should.
You're right about one thing, though: BW community was spoiled. For the longest time, it could always look to the Korean BW scene for the highest level games and play, and feed off of that for its own scene everywhere else. But now, that's coming to an end, and despite what you say about it, the BW community is doing something about it. I have not seen such buzz in foreign BW activity here since the days of TSL2, and it has no signs of stopping anytime soon.
So no, it's going out without a fight. If anything, the 2+ years of the scepter of SC2 hanging over its head has made the BW community leaner and more passionate. Those talks of anguish and lament that you see are for the dying Korean scene I and many others so dearly loved and cared about, especially one usurped by an unworthy successor.
So much hate for a game that is easily worthy of having the baton of BW to carry forward. Ive said before I dont like that BW had to go but if it did im glad its going to sc2 and not LoL(despite my love for the people at Riot) or an entirely different genre. The game is not BW and frankly im glad at that because you cant copy what something else does and do it better. SC2 decided to take what they thought was good keep get rid of what they thought was useless and add a taste of there own. I will admit not all of it is to my liking but then again not all of BW was to my liking either (worst unit AI ever).
I say that bit not to start a flame war, but to explain why its not surprising to hear that someone like Flash would enjoy playing SC2. The similarities probably gave him a feeling of familiarity but some of the changes might have grown on him(once he realized what they were). To me the best part of BW was by far watching the battles and while I am/was very impressed by the BW pro's amazing macro that wasnt the most exciting part of the game. The most exciting part of the game was watching the units collide and that was the main thing that I think BW still does better but I look forward to seeing if that was merely execution.
Not even close. At least LoL is not trying to mock BW by touting itself as its successor, although Dota fans might like to have a word with Riot.
Its not trying to mock BW. It is the successor one way or another and honestly the game deserves it more than any other.
On April 26 2012 21:59 NeWeNiyaLord wrote: Esports isnt 1 game, but community's joined by the cause of fighting to be the best with fans all over the world cheering.
E-sports is the fact of playing a game competitively, nothing to do with fans or cheering, just the matter of people competing regularly enough so that they feel the need to practice ... and therefore act like any more "common" sports
That's probably true, but I like the way I put it better.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i2.listal.com/image/3170297/500full.jpg)
