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NBA Playoffs 2012 - Page 96

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andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 05:29:36
May 16 2012 05:25 GMT
#1901
A lot of the Spurs' success comes from the front office. They are very good at finding players that can work in Pop's system and complement their star players. They look for guys like Bowen who can defend and hit the corner three. Or guys that can hit any three for that matter, the corner three is just the best one.

OKC isn't really close. Their Big 3 is arguably better but too many of their role players are one-dimensional. They have to make a tradeoff between going offense or going defense.
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 16 2012 05:30 GMT
#1902
Tbh, I don't think the Spurs played particularly well and showed some rust, and yet they still came away with a comfortable victory. The problems Griffin and Paul had were not flukes and I don't see how they can adjust to it. If anything, Bledsoe and Butler were the flukes.

I think the option that Griffin has is to try to match up with Duncan and wrap all around the basket. I'm surprised that Blair didn't get a lot of time because I think he could use his girth to push Griffin completely out of the paint, although Diaw has superb passing.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 08:26:41
May 16 2012 08:22 GMT
#1903
On May 16 2012 13:24 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 12:47 Ace wrote:
Why would I be bitter when I've said all year the Spurs could win it all?

Diaw and Jackson are above average starters coming off the bench. That is the #1 reason for their success right now. PoP has had lesser rosters with the same system do well in the regular season and get creamed in the post season. It's as simple as that.

what year do you think it is? No way are Jackson and Diaw above average starters. Diaw has had 2 above average seasons in his entire career, the last one in 2008-2009. And Jackson hasn't been the same since he left GS.


Mario Chalmers, Joel Anthony, Greg Stiemsma, Avery Bradley, Spencer Hawes, Jodie Meeks, Darren Collison:

All of those guys were or are starters for current teams in the Eastern Conference playoffs. There is no way on this planet you're telling me that Diaw and Jackson couldn't start. Notice I'm not saying they need to drop 20 and 10 every night - but they are definitely starters.


@igotmyown: Oops, last month. *shrug*

On May 16 2012 13:56 Whatson wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 16 2012 12:47 Ace wrote:
Why would I be bitter when I've said all year the Spurs could win it all?

Diaw and Jackson are above average starters coming off the bench. That is the #1 reason for their success right now. PoP has had lesser rosters with the same system do well in the regular season and get creamed in the post season. It's as simple as that.

i'd just like to point out that you lose all credibility with this statement.
Who'd they face last year? Oh yeah, a blistering hot Memphis team that had all the right matchups and made every western conference playoff team shit their pants for a good three weeks. Injuries and age played a giant part in every playoff exit they've had. It's really as simple as that.


After 1999 when they got their first chip with Duncan and had a squad every year why didn't they win it? They weren't injured every year now were they? Sometimes they just didn't have a loaded roster to win it all - it really is that simple.

When Boston won it in 2008 they had PJ Brown coming off the bench and he could STILL start for teams in the league at that point.

When LA won it in 2009 they had Odom coming off the bench and he could start for teams in the league. Same in 2010.

Dallas? Terry and Barea.

Saying it's some magic secret as if Pop's system is unbeatable is just flat out wrong: He's a great coach and he has the roster he needs. Otherwise they would have beat Memphis last year who didn't have Rudy Gay with his system. Manu was actually on the court where as Rudy was in street clothes. Come on, just stop talking nonsense.


On May 16 2012 14:25 andrewlt wrote:
A lot of the Spurs' success comes from the front office. They are very good at finding players that can work in Pop's system and complement their star players. They look for guys like Bowen who can defend and hit the corner three. Or guys that can hit any three for that matter, the corner three is just the best one.

OKC isn't really close. Their Big 3 is arguably better but too many of their role players are one-dimensional. They have to make a tradeoff between going offense or going defense.


Bingo, but for some reason guys think it's literally just finding *anyone*, putting them on the team with Pop's system and it's instant success.

I think OKC is close when they've got Fisher coming off the bench as their serviceable vet along with Collison and Cook. Not exactly the same as Stephen Jackson and Boris Diaw but its somewhat in the same direction.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
MilesTeg
Profile Joined September 2010
France1271 Posts
May 16 2012 11:54 GMT
#1904
Pop is the front office though. He deserves a lot of credit.

This discussion is just a result of the Spurs being so underrated for the whole year. Suddenly in the playoffs people realise they're damn good and they wonder what's their secret. There's no secret, they're just very good everywhere, 12 deep, and in every aspect of the game. Why aren't we wondering why the Heat or Thunder are good?

It's been the same every year except the last couple, which is why it was hilarious to read the Spurs are a "regular season team". A team that won 4 titles and has outperformed expectations every playoffs for a decade isn't a "regular season team".
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 16 2012 15:14 GMT
#1905
Eh, it's both. Part of it is getting the right players, but you have to attribute a lot to coaching. Take Danny Greene who was almost out of the league. Or Oberto who 'couldn't run, jump, or score' and yet still had big minutes on a championship team. That said, I don't think just any player could play like that.

As far as attention, I think it's just the market/marketability. Sports news is ridiculously biased. Just look at how much attention the Knicks got just for getting into the playoffs. Even the Lakers are somewhat overrated. OKC is the exception because they are extremely marketable and have the second best player in the league and two other 'sensational' guys. When you point it out to people, they have to invent reasons as to why they overlooked them.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
May 16 2012 15:32 GMT
#1906
Not to discredit you Milesteg but have many people been counting out the spurs for these playoffs really? Most people have known they were hot after the all-star break and that Pop has been resting his starters for the playoffs while increasing their minutes as time went on. The big worry was just an injury really and matchups. If the Spurs matched up with the Lakers this round it would be a little harder for them(not saying they couldn't win it).

@igotmyown: and Ace has been giving credit to the Spurs by the way just as an fyi. I have read every post in the NBA threads in a while and I can back him up. You searched spurs but even just looking up like San antonio would lead you to http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=289239&currentpage=157#3127 and http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=289239&currentpage=157#3140. There might be more but you can look it up if you want.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Telcontar
Profile Joined May 2010
United Kingdom16710 Posts
May 16 2012 17:59 GMT
#1907
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/12555676-419/derrick-rose-might-not-be-able-to-return-next-season.html

Rose is out for approx. 8~12 months.

They should try and get Nash.
Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien. Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar tenn' Ambar-metta.
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 16 2012 18:05 GMT
#1908
On May 17 2012 02:59 Telcontar wrote:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/12555676-419/derrick-rose-might-not-be-able-to-return-next-season.html

Rose is out for approx. 8~12 months.

They should try and get Nash.


TIme for Chicago to pull a David Robinson. I don't see Nash being a great fit for the Bulls. He makes people better, but Chicago doesn't have a lot of offensive weapons. You can only catch defenders asleep on Noah/Gibson/Asik so many times. Now if Boozer starts playing out of his mind in the pick and roll or they move Rose to the 2 guard and he improves his jumpshooting, then that might work.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
Bonzinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Slovenia862 Posts
May 16 2012 19:18 GMT
#1909
Hmm... http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/14184/was-chalmers-fouled-on-last-second-shot
There was no replay about that shot on tv so i couldn't see it. I saw Wade complaining after the buzzer but i thought he is just whining as he does sometimes.

I know Heat won't dwell on it. Game 3 is going to be sick. I can't wait
AntiGrav1ty
Profile Joined April 2010
Germany2310 Posts
May 16 2012 19:31 GMT
#1910
On May 17 2012 03:05 Jerubaal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2012 02:59 Telcontar wrote:
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/12555676-419/derrick-rose-might-not-be-able-to-return-next-season.html

Rose is out for approx. 8~12 months.

They should try and get Nash.


TIme for Chicago to pull a David Robinson. I don't see Nash being a great fit for the Bulls. He makes people better, but Chicago doesn't have a lot of offensive weapons. You can only catch defenders asleep on Noah/Gibson/Asik so many times. Now if Boozer starts playing out of his mind in the pick and roll or they move Rose to the 2 guard and he improves his jumpshooting, then that might work.


Boozer, Noah and Gibson would thank the gods for someone like Nash. On the other hand thibs would go crazy. I don't think he would let Nash run the offense the way he likes it.
www.twitch.tv/antigrav1ty
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
May 16 2012 19:58 GMT
#1911
why wasn't wade given a game off for his body check on collison? it makes no sense.....dc should've wailed on the ground for ten minutes like everyone else, then maybe the refs would give a flagrant 2 to a superstar.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Bonzinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Slovenia862 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 20:20:59
May 16 2012 20:12 GMT
#1912
On May 17 2012 04:58 Holcan wrote:
why wasn't wade given a game off for his body check on collison? it makes no sense.....dc should've wailed on the ground for ten minutes like everyone else, then maybe the refs would give a flagrant 2 to a superstar.


It wasn't a flagrant 2 by any means, it was a flagrant 1. Simple as that. If he was in the air or pushed him with hands, i bet he would have gotten #2.
I didn't see any unnecessary and excessive contact there. He just bumped him and moved him out of the way to the basket.
Collison did step in the path of Wade which made it look it was really bad.
Steve Kerr. #1 Hater by a mile. I won't even go into that.

People can check it out by themselfs.
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
May 16 2012 20:16 GMT
#1913
On May 17 2012 05:12 Bonzinator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2012 04:58 Holcan wrote:
why wasn't wade given a game off for his body check on collison? it makes no sense.....dc should've wailed on the ground for ten minutes like everyone else, then maybe the refs would give a flagrant 2 to a superstar.


It wasn't a flagrant 2 by any means, it was a flagrant 1. Simple as that. If he was in the air or pushed him with hands, i bet he would have gotten #2.
I didn't see any unnecessary and excessive contact there. He just bumped him and moved him out of the way to the basket.
Bodycheck isn't the right word to discribe that foul.


Going to disagree with you on that one. I see it as a clear bodycheck from behind, which can be very dangerous when the player you hit is going fast in the same direction. Wade was obviously trying to hit him too out of frustration for not getting a call on the play before, which adds in the intent factor. Other players have gotten 1-game suspensions for that kind of stuff and less this season. The only reason Wade didn't is because he's Wade.
Moderator
Bonzinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Slovenia862 Posts
May 16 2012 20:31 GMT
#1914
On May 17 2012 05:16 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2012 05:12 Bonzinator wrote:
On May 17 2012 04:58 Holcan wrote:
why wasn't wade given a game off for his body check on collison? it makes no sense.....dc should've wailed on the ground for ten minutes like everyone else, then maybe the refs would give a flagrant 2 to a superstar.


It wasn't a flagrant 2 by any means, it was a flagrant 1. Simple as that. If he was in the air or pushed him with hands, i bet he would have gotten #2.
I didn't see any unnecessary and excessive contact there. He just bumped him and moved him out of the way to the basket.
Bodycheck isn't the right word to discribe that foul.


Going to disagree with you on that one. I see it as a clear bodycheck from behind, which can be very dangerous when the player you hit is going fast in the same direction. Wade was obviously trying to hit him too out of frustration for not getting a call on the play before, which adds in the intent factor. Other players have gotten 1-game suspensions for that kind of stuff and less this season. The only reason Wade didn't is because he's Wade.


Collison did step in he path Wade was running. So there was more power to it then if he wouldn't cut him off.
He's intent was to stop him for an easy 2. Not hurting him. I belive that. Wade isn't Artest. As for others i can't really say thats true, but i guess star factor will always raise those claims.

Well at the end, it won't matter. Touching a shooter on a elbow before the realese is a clear foul.

VENDIZ
Profile Joined October 2010
1575 Posts
May 16 2012 21:01 GMT
#1915
For those of you talking about Nash + the Bulls; it's never going to happen, Nash is too expensive and is looking for a 3-year deal, something the Bulls won't give him.
SaGe fighting!!~~~~~~
Jerubaal
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States7684 Posts
May 16 2012 21:21 GMT
#1916
On May 17 2012 06:01 VENDIZ wrote:
For those of you talking about Nash + the Bulls; it's never going to happen, Nash is too expensive and is looking for a 3-year deal, something the Bulls won't give him.


He'll take a pay cut if he really wants a ring.

@AntiGrav1ty- I agree that he would make those guys a lot better, but the Bulls need to get a lot of offense from only a few places. Rose did a pretty good job at getting Noah and Gibson the ball when they had looks. Nash would do a little bit better but with a lot less scoring of his own.
I'm not stupid, a marauder just shot my brain.
andrewlt
Profile Joined August 2009
United States7702 Posts
May 16 2012 21:42 GMT
#1917
On May 16 2012 20:54 MilesTeg wrote:
Pop is the front office though. He deserves a lot of credit.

This discussion is just a result of the Spurs being so underrated for the whole year. Suddenly in the playoffs people realise they're damn good and they wonder what's their secret. There's no secret, they're just very good everywhere, 12 deep, and in every aspect of the game. Why aren't we wondering why the Heat or Thunder are good?

It's been the same every year except the last couple, which is why it was hilarious to read the Spurs are a "regular season team". A team that won 4 titles and has outperformed expectations every playoffs for a decade isn't a "regular season team".


Every 1-seed that gets eliminated by an 8-seed is going to be underrated the next year. If you've done any prediction markets, people have tried to come up with many very complex systems but seldom do they beat next = last on a statistically significant level.

Fans always love to cherry pick stats and then crow the few times they are proven right. However, short of doing an actual regression analysis, there's really no better predictor than next = last. And the Spurs sucked last playoffs.
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
May 16 2012 21:53 GMT
#1918
On May 17 2012 05:12 Bonzinator wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2012 04:58 Holcan wrote:
why wasn't wade given a game off for his body check on collison? it makes no sense.....dc should've wailed on the ground for ten minutes like everyone else, then maybe the refs would give a flagrant 2 to a superstar.


It wasn't a flagrant 2 by any means, it was a flagrant 1. Simple as that. If he was in the air or pushed him with hands, i bet he would have gotten #2.
I didn't see any unnecessary and excessive contact there. He just bumped him and moved him out of the way to the basket.
Collison did step in the path of Wade which made it look it was really bad.
Steve Kerr. #1 Hater by a mile. I won't even go into that.

People can check it out by themselfs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4mupw5Nnzk&feature=g-all-u

hitting a player off the ball, with excessive force, is a flagrant 2 last I checked. there was nothing basketball about the play, at all. flagrant two. you also though kobes wasn't a flagrant, so I'm not buying your interpretation of the rule.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Bonzinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Slovenia862 Posts
May 16 2012 22:05 GMT
#1919
On May 17 2012 06:53 Holcan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 17 2012 05:12 Bonzinator wrote:
On May 17 2012 04:58 Holcan wrote:
why wasn't wade given a game off for his body check on collison? it makes no sense.....dc should've wailed on the ground for ten minutes like everyone else, then maybe the refs would give a flagrant 2 to a superstar.


It wasn't a flagrant 2 by any means, it was a flagrant 1. Simple as that. If he was in the air or pushed him with hands, i bet he would have gotten #2.
I didn't see any unnecessary and excessive contact there. He just bumped him and moved him out of the way to the basket.
Collison did step in the path of Wade which made it look it was really bad.
Steve Kerr. #1 Hater by a mile. I won't even go into that.

People can check it out by themselfs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4mupw5Nnzk&feature=g-all-u

hitting a player off the ball, with excessive force, is a flagrant 2 last I checked. there was nothing basketball about the play, at all. flagrant two. you also though kobes wasn't a flagrant, so I'm not buying your interpretation of the rule.


Well atleast the league is saying it will stay 1. Woot, i don't remember saying anything about Kobe and flagrant foul.
You probably mixed me up with someone esle.
justinpal
Profile Joined September 2010
United States3810 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-05-16 22:15:28
May 16 2012 22:15 GMT
#1920
Meh. I'm sick of the star treatment. But, if Wade were suspended for a game the series would go to shit. The league would effectively be putting the Pacers up 2-1 in the series. HOWEVER, with that said if Danny Granger or any Pacer had done that exact play to LeBron or Wade it would have been a flagrant 2 and possibly a 1 game suspension.

Never make a hydralisk.
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