EPTLmao so funny. Wade is such a great guy too. Derek is too old for a sense of humor.
NBA Playoffs 2012 - Page 348
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Lmao so funny. Wade is such a great guy too. Derek is too old for a sense of humor. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
On June 27 2012 12:46 Southlight wrote: Momentum for the Cavs trading up for the Cats' pick has been building. Cavs supposedly don't want to part with the 24th pick, but the Cats are completely open to trading down, and eventually the Cavs will probably fold and give up the 24th. Edit: Like, people are now talking about who we're going to pick instead, so resigned are most people in the area to losing Beal to the Cavs. And most signs are pointing to Barnes because he can hit a three. BECAUSE HE CAN (sort of?) HIT THREE POINTERS. That's how pathetic this has become :| GG thanks for telegraphing our pick to the world, Grunfail. Edit2: I have no problem with the trade itself. We weren't going to sign anyone good (no one wants to come to the Wiz), so we were going to overpay mediocre players anyways. This was just locking up players for 2 years instead of like 3-4 year deals that we'd have been forced to sign people for in FA. In 2 years the new collective bargaining agreement's salary stuff kicks in, so it makes sense to me. But the timing couldn't have possibly been worse. I've been reading that the Cavs are happy with Barnes at 4. However, the Bobcats have made it quite clear that their pick is up for grabs. I wouldn't give up too much for Beal though - that's just me. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
I think it's a good move for both parties. Smart move by Clips knowing he wants to come back to LA too. | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
The bigger question is, who the f----k is negotiating this? Neil Olshey has been gone for 3 weeks now...and we still haven't gotten a new guy to head up the front office. We don't have Blake or CP3 locked up to deals, we're saddled with DeAndre and Caron Butler. My tears taste salty and familiar t.t | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
lakers looking like they trying to set it up for a trade to the Rockets if they aren't able to get Howard. It isn't in the article but it is a smart way of letting them know they would also take Lowry ^^ lol | ||
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Goetzinho ftw
Germany115 Posts
On June 28 2012 01:48 MassHysteria wrote: Lamar Odom to Clips? How do you feel about that Sly? I think it's a good move for both parties. Smart move by Clips knowing he wants to come back to LA too. He is going to leave DAL no matter what, DAL wants to deal him before the deadline to save money. As a DAL fan I hope he leaves ASAP, no matter where he lands. | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
lowry and a pick for gasol would be a bad move, not to mention I've heard laker fans claim they want lowry, scola and a pick for him. morey won't pull the trigger unless its a good move for houstan. | ||
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Kahlgar
411 Posts
imo it doesn't make much sense for LAL to start rebuilding now (ie trading Pau for draft pick+random player with upside) when Kobe still is pretty good, getting Howard would be much much smarter both for now and for the future of the franchise. | ||
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ketomai
United States2789 Posts
edit: forgot to include Lamar Odom leaving in a trade to the Clippers. | ||
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Tien
Russian Federation4447 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
Plus, go look at the numbers. Pau still put up very good production this season, and the only reason people are shitting on him is because he's so good that people expect greater production from him. He was one of the two best players on two NBA championship teams (which people should remember only happened two seasons ago), and the best player for the best international team in the world. Teams dream about having a PF/C who can score, pass, rebound and protect the rim like Pau. Also, is there a nicer guy in the NBA? People give him crap about not being a "killer" and "soft" (bullshit IMO and he has the results to prove it), but fail to give him any credit for being such a great teammate and person in general (undervalued qualities). Those are valuable qualities on any roster. The only reason the Lakers are willing to part with Gasol is because they're in the enviable position of having another Allstar-level Center in Bynum. No way they even consider trading Gasol if they didn't. Houston would be smart to take advantage of the unusual circumstances that the Lakers find themselves in, i.e. terrible lack of depth, demanding superstar and fanbase who will not tolerate anything less than championship contention, have two Allstar-level Centers, and way over the cap. The only other way they're getting a PF/C of that quality is by lucking into one in the draft, and we all know how often that happens. Is Pau getting paid a lot? Sure. But, again, look at how much big men are being paid around the league. They don't come cheap, i.e. DeAndre $10M/yr, Chandler $13M/yr, Bynum $15M/yr, Horford $12M/yr, Z-Bo $16M/yr, Marc $14M/yr, Bogut $13M/yr, Lee $15M/yr, Bosh $20M/yr, etc. Is Pau getting paid $19M/yr really so outrageous? I would argue that any team in the league would, and should, be willing to pay that much for a player of Pau's size and skillset. You're not going to get one for much cheaper. Personally, I would prefer that the Lakers keep Pau and trade Bynum under their particular circumstances. Pau is a better all-around player and much more reliable/dependable. He's won on the biggest stages in the world and has achieved the highest levels of team success in the basketball world. Kobe is stupid to not realize what a gift it is to have a guy who is that talented while also being willing to give up the limelight and credit and not fight for alpha dog status with him. Pau is the consummate teammate, eminently coachable, and a great citizen in any community he's in. His style of play doesn't rely on athleticism and should age very well going forward. His contract will be done in two years, and it's virtually guaranteed that he is loyal and self-sacrificing enough to re-sign for much less money to compete going forward. It's disappointing how little credit Pau gets considering how great he is. It sucks as a Lakers fan to see him being shopped around like an unwanted puppy. He deserves better and I'll be very sad to see him go if he is traded. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On June 28 2012 06:23 Ack1027 wrote: But he shoots free throws like a fairy ;( Yeah it does look funny... but at least it's pretty accurate?  | ||
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
Hell, I think Deandre at 10million is overpaid too, he sucks. I also think Lee is overpaid, but GSW needed to offer him that to entice him. And statistically Pau had his worst year last year sicne being traded to the Lakers, Less PPG, while taking more shots leading to lesser FG%, while staying average is almost every other category, although he did rebound well. He is a great player, but 19million dollars for someone who may or may not contribute on this level on another team doesn't seem worth it. Also its not about the contract per say, but about giving up cheap assets in Scola, Lowry and a pick for a 19million/year gamble. Pau sort of has that effect, where people associated with the Lakers tend to overrate his abilities, while people not associated with the Lakers tend to underrate his abilities. It will be hard for people to see eye to eye on what he can actually bring to a team, and for 38 million dollars, thats a huge amount of money to not try to come out ahead. He is a fine player, but I don't think he is worth trading any valuable assets like a rookie contract, and one of the most up and coming point guards in the league. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On June 28 2012 06:46 Holcan wrote: He's a fine player, but he is overpaid, Bosh is only paid 16mill this year, and his contract averages to 17/year. Hell, I think Deandre at 10million is overpaid too, he sucks. I also think Lee is overpaid, but GSW needed to offer him that to entice him. And statistically Pau had his worst year last year sicne being traded to the Lakers, Less PPG, while taking more shots leading to lesser FG%, while staying average is almost every other category, although he did rebound well. He is a great player, but 19million dollars for someone who may or may not contribute on this level on another team doesn't seem worth it. Also its not about the contract per say, but about giving up cheap assets in Scola, Lowry and a pick for a 19million/year gamble. Pau sort of has that effect, where people associated with the Lakers tend to overrate his abilities, while people not associated with the Lakers tend to underrate his abilities. It will be hard for people to see eye to eye on what he can actually bring to a team, and for 38 million dollars, thats a huge amount of money to not try to come out ahead. He is a fine player, but I don't think he is worth trading any valuable assets like a rookie contract, and one of the most up and coming point guards in the league. Agreed that DeAndre and Lee are overpaid, but that's the point. Teams overpay for big men because they want to lock them down and are reluctant to let them go. Again, it's a matter of scarcity and quality big men are the scarcest resource in the league. Big men who can score 20 ppg, have a post game, average 10 rpg, and block shots are practically extinct. Add in the willingness and ability to pass and great durability (check out his min/g and missed games), and you have the best all-around PF/C in the league by far. It's only right that he be paid more than guys like Z-Bo, Chandler, Nene, Lee and Horford. Yes, Pau did not have a great season by his standards, but there were many good explanations for it. Dealing with the CP3 trade, having a new coach and system, being forced into a role he didn't want and was uncomfortable with (floating around the perimeter, few post touches, etc.) which did not maximize his strengths, little to no rest or practice time due to the schedule, significant roster changes, etc. Who wouldn't have regressed under those circumstances? Despite all that, he still performed better than almost every Center in the league. 37 min/g, 17.4 ppg, 10.4 rpg, 3.7 apg, 1.4 bpg and 50 FG%. How is that not an incredible stat line over the course of a season considering all the factors working against him? Compared to his previous years, it was disappointing. Compared to the rest of the field, it was still very impressive. Who else put up those kinds of numbers? Who else is capable of it? Not more than a handful of some of the most elite players in the league. What reason is there to doubt that he couldn't contribute at that level on another team? He would be the primary post option on any team he went to, particularly if he went to HOU and played under McHale (!!). No other team would push him out of the paint like the Lakers did, and any team that went after him would obviously be looking to get a lot out of him. His rebounding and shotblocking will always be there due to his height and standing reach. I don't see how any team could suddenly take away his ability to pass to open teammates and create offense out of the post. Pau is not a gamble, and cheap assets only have so much value, particularly on a team lacking a true star like the Rockets. Lowry will never be able to carry a team, neither will Scola or KMart. None of them would be the first option, or arguably even the second option, on a championship contender. You can't build contenders with players like that, but you can with players like Pau. Houston, in particular, is loaded with reasonably priced, middling talent. They don't need anymore "value" players at this point. They are looking to make a big acquisition for a big time player, and they should be. The NBA is a star-driven league and star PF/C's are some of the best to build around. Plus, they're not luring guys like Deron or D12 there, so who is left to go after? Iguodala? Gay? | ||
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slyboogie
United States3423 Posts
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Holcan
Canada2593 Posts
If they were to devote 100% to going all in this year, getting Pau isn't the way to do it. They won't become contenders with Pau as a #1 option anymore than Lowry, just as they won't do it with Howard. They are dooming themselves to mediocrity by moving two of their best assets for a contract that may or may not be worth it. As for if he can perform on another team, we don't know, everyone thought Dallas was getting a steal with Odom last year, look how that turned out. Cerebral players are a coin flip on whether or not they perform with a new team, and as much as intelligence is coveted, it becomes an issue when a player is a high option rather than just a role player. That being said, apparently they arent looking in Gasols direction at all I think the lakers would be better off trying to get Tyrus Thomas and the #2 pick. Also, I don't get how you can say Gasols contract isn't bad, its like, the entire reason they are shopping him :x. | ||
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XaI)CyRiC
United States4471 Posts
On June 28 2012 08:24 Holcan wrote: Lowry is getting 6 million, which is one of the better contracts in the league, Scola is getting 8 million, which is I guess average for his market value, and the rookie will be getting underpaid for 4 years, that is 3 solid contracts, for one heaping mediocre contract. I don't see the value in that trade from Houstan's perspective. If they were to devote 100% to going all in this year, getting Pau isn't the way to do it. They won't become contenders with Pau as a #1 option anymore than Lowry, just as they won't do it with Howard. They are dooming themselves to mediocrity by moving two of their best assets for a contract that may or may not be worth it. As for if he can perform on another team, we don't know, everyone thought Dallas was getting a steal with Odom last year, look how that turned out. Cerebral players are a coin flip on whether or not they perform with a new team, and as much as intelligence is coveted, it becomes an issue when a player is a high option rather than just a role player. That being said, apparently they arent looking in Gasols direction at all https://twitter.com/chadfordinsider/status/218078305780375554 I think the lakers would be better off trying to get Tyrus Thomas and the #2 pick. I'm definitely not arguing that Lowry, Scola and a rookie aren't valuable assets, but they aren't as valuable as one Allstar PF/C like Pau. Also, you can't just evaluate players as contracts because you'd be ignoring the impact they can have on a franchise on the court. Houston has been stockpiling valuable contracts/assets for years with an eye on the numbers, and haven't been able to do anything other than contending for the 8th seed year after year. At some point, you have to shell out the big bucks to go after a big time player, whether the contract value is ideal or not. I don't agree with your description of Pau as a mediocre contract either. $19M per year for a PF/C of that quality is a good deal simply because you end up with a player of that quality. When it comes to that small group of players in the league who are good enough to be the first or second option on a championship contender, particularly a PF/C, the cost of their contract diminishes significantly. Again, look at what other teams are paying for PF/Cs of Pau's level or less. Do you really think a team would take Chandler over Pau because Pau would cost them $7M more per year? Barring some serious luxury cap issues, there's no way that happens. You don't try to trim and save when it comes to core players, you do that with the players you put around them. When players like Pau become available, you break the bank for them and worry about filling out the roster affordably. You can find reasonable replacements for Lowry, the league has many PGs who can give you close to 15 ppg and 7 apg while knocking down 3's. You can find reasonable replacements for Scola, i.e. a 6'9" PF/C who can score but is questionable defenders. What you can't find are reasonable replacements for a 7' 18/10 PF/C who can shoot 15 footers, have a post game, and can protect the rim. If teams are looking to cut costs, it should be with 2nd tier players like Lowry and Scola, not their top tier players like Pau. There's a reason Pau got a max contract, while Lowry and Scola got far less. With a player like Pau, you at least have a chance at contending because you could pair him with another Allstar and become a legitimate threat. The number of players like that is very low. With good contracts, all you have is the possibility of signing a player like Pau, who may or may not become available when you're capable of going after them and may or may not even want to play on your team. Mediocrity is where Houston is now, a roster with a bunch of 2nd tier talent, and their only hope to get out of that is to get a player of Pau's quality. To become a contender, you have to acquire an Allstar level talent. That's the first step just to open the possibility of contending someday. Pau is the type of player you can build an offense around, anchor a defense, and make his teammates better. With a guy like him, you could convince other Allstars to team up with Pau to win a ring (Kobe did it) or continue to build around him. But without that first step, you're not even in the game. The difference between Odom and Pau is huge. Pau's worst season would be comparable to Odom's best, it's not even a contest. Plus, Pau is a consummate professional and would never bail on a season the way Odom did or give anything but his best effort for whatever team he's playing for. And, yeah, I saw that report about Houston not being interested in Pau. I have my doubts that they would turn him down since the odds of getting D12 are so remote, but it is what it is and I stand by my points. Edit: The reason why they're shopping Pau is because of the combination of big contracts on the Lakers roster, i.e. Kobe, Bynum, and Artest, and his incompatibility with Bynum. Pau's contract, in and of itself, is not a bad one. The Lakers' need to improve their roster (poor choice in support players, i.e. lack of athleticism or 3pt shooting) and they lack of any other assets other than Bynum (who Jim Buss will never trade). In fact, the reason why Pau is being moved is because he is valuable, not the other way around. | ||
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MassHysteria
United States3678 Posts
Pau is older yet still special and although I agree with some of Holcan's points, I don't think he is doing him justice either by including him in the tier of players he described such as Odom. edit: @cyric: I also agree with trying to trade Bynum first instead of pau for the reasons you mentioned. | ||
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RowdierBob
Australia12999 Posts
Not saying that can't or won't happen, but Pau's age and contract size is definitely going to take most teams out the picture and limit the Lakers' trade options. The Lakers have been masters in the past at fleecing teams in trades, but I don't see another CP3 like opportunity hitting them again: they're not going to get equal value if they do trade Pau (but I'll prob be wrong here..); but maybe they can get close? How close is good enough? | ||
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