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NBA Playoffs 2012 - Page 346

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Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 26 2012 12:45 GMT
#6901
Some crazed NBA/Celtics fans months ago: Ray Allen is old, he's got bone spurs. Trade him for O.J. Mayo!

After the ECF: Ray Allen is too old! We would have won if we had Avery Bradley playing instead!

After rumors about Ray Allen going to Miami leak: WTF! LeBron doesn't need MORE help! Bullshit!
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
June 26 2012 18:04 GMT
#6902
On June 26 2012 21:45 Ace wrote:
Some crazed NBA/Celtics fans months ago: Ray Allen is old, he's got bone spurs. Trade him for O.J. Mayo!

After the ECF: Ray Allen is too old! We would have won if we had Avery Bradley playing instead!

After rumors about Ray Allen going to Miami leak: WTF! LeBron doesn't need MORE help! Bullshit!


It's funny how quickly perceptions change under different circumstances

However, I think it's all a matter of expectations with the Ray Allen situation though. In BOS, he's viewed as one of the Big 3 (or 4) and as someone they needed to carry a significant offensive load for them to win. The Celtics are not considered contenders if Ray Allen is just a role player, so him playing like one was seen as a huge loss/impairment for their team.

If he joins MIA, or any other contender really, he'll be joining as a super role player that just makes an already good team even better. If he were to join the Heat, Thunder, Bulls, Spurs, or even semi-contenders like the Lakers, Clippers, Mavs, etc., the expectations would be very different. Teams wouldn't be signing the Allstar, future HoF Ray Allen, they'd be signing the star-turned-role, player piece-to-put-us-over-top Ray Allen. Very different role with very different expectations, which understandably leads to a very different opinion about the same guy. As an Allstar 20+ ppg scorer, Ray is going to disappoint at this point in his career. As a knockdown 3pt shooter to take pressure off of your star players, he would be amazingly overqualified and make a team like MIA almost unstoppable.
Moderator
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 26 2012 18:40 GMT
#6903
Yep. The popular sentiment is "crap. All those guys on Miami except Battier during the regular season were lighting it up from 3. Did you see how open Mike Miller was in Game 5?! Holy ****."

Miami's main problem of signing Ray Allen (if Miller retires) is that they've already got a ton of wing players. Unless Dexter Pittman + their draft pick develops into a competent back up front court I don't see why they would want Miller. Playing LeBron at PF for an entire season isn't exactly wise either.

Cole / Chalmers
Wade / Battier/ LeBron/ Jones
Bosh / Haslem / Turiaf / Pittman

With Terrel Harris and Gladness (2 more wings) coming off the bench is a lot. But I guess having the best 3 pt shooter in the league isn't exactly a bad thing. I just don't know if it's worth ignoring a FA big to boost their already top tier defense + rebounding.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
slyboogie
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3423 Posts
June 26 2012 18:52 GMT
#6904
It will be a nineteen-million dollar miracle if Mike Miller retires.
"We dug coal together." Boyd Crowder, Justified
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
June 26 2012 19:04 GMT
#6905
I don't see ray going chip hunting yet, not this season at least. the guy has at least 3 more years of ball left in him due to his conditioning, he only has a few more years to get majour paychecks for his family before retiring, and this is the last year he willl really be able to demand much in the market. I'm sure he has had a chat with the heat front office, but at the same time he can probably get atleast 8 mill on the market while still being able to start for a team like the wolves, while the heat will still be there in two years.


also ray has a ring on his finger, one he can call his own, any other ring now will not be the same. I understand he likes winning, and going into the posts season, so I think he may lean towards a team willing to put up the cash, but I don't think the clippers will pay taxes for him, and I feel his ability to put fans in the stands is as important as his ability to put the ball in the bucket so a middle of the pack team might be intereated in him just to sell more tickets, not just his ability to shoot the three.



also steve nash actually still needs a chip, and shoots threes at a higher percentage than ray, while still being in the top 10 all time threes made, and he isn't a wing, why wouldn't the heat target him? :p
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Kenpachi
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States9908 Posts
June 26 2012 19:08 GMT
#6906
oh god why is miami winning this poll
[image loading]
Nada's body is South Korea's greatest weapon.
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
June 26 2012 19:11 GMT
#6907
On June 27 2012 03:40 Ace wrote:
Yep. The popular sentiment is "crap. All those guys on Miami except Battier during the regular season were lighting it up from 3. Did you see how open Mike Miller was in Game 5?! Holy ****."

Miami's main problem of signing Ray Allen (if Miller retires) is that they've already got a ton of wing players. Unless Dexter Pittman + their draft pick develops into a competent back up front court I don't see why they would want Miller. Playing LeBron at PF for an entire season isn't exactly wise either.

Cole / Chalmers
Wade / Battier/ LeBron/ Jones
Bosh / Haslem / Turiaf / Pittman

With Terrel Harris and Gladness (2 more wings) coming off the bench is a lot. But I guess having the best 3 pt shooter in the league isn't exactly a bad thing. I just don't know if it's worth ignoring a FA big to boost their already top tier defense + rebounding.


I see Ray Allen as being more of a backup to Wade and closer.

The Heat don't really have an SG behind Wade right now, as Battier, Jones and Miller are SFs. Ray could come in and be that guy who can spell Wade for stretches and carry/lead their second unit when Wade goes out. In the 4th quarter, they could plug him in with Wade, Lebron, Bosh and another 3pt threat and just murder teams. Scary enough that it's totally understandable that the rest of the league and their fans are crying outrage.

Sadly, there's virtually no chance that he ends up signing with the Lakers because they could really use him. The first quality backup to Kobe that the Lakers would have had in... forever? 3pt shooting for a team that needs to create spacing for their great post play? The BOS-LAL rivalry, the Kobe-Ray bickering from the Sonics days, the lack of any meaningful money the Lakers can throw at him, and the much greater appeal in terms of winning a ring that MIA can offer. Sigh...

It'd be awesome to see him sign with the Clippers too, but I think that team is still too up-and-coming for Ray to be interested, let alone pick over the Heat.
Moderator
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-26 19:31:29
June 26 2012 19:31 GMT
#6908
and scratch the wolves off that allen suitor list, budinger and a contract roys way was apparently their fix for their gap at sg.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 26 2012 19:37 GMT
#6909
@Cyric: I don't think Miami really needs a conventional SG. I just classify them as "wings" since that seems to be the way Miami runs their rotations. Battier subs in for Wade or Lebron as the designated "wing" since he can guard 2s and 3s and hit shots. They've run 3 SFs, Bosh and Chalmers/Cole before and went wild
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
June 26 2012 19:43 GMT
#6910
Ya not a bad trade for them, but I am more excited to see what Morey and the Rockets are planning to do now. Will they overhaul their team with these picks? Will they make a push for Howard or another big-name trade? Will they use Lowry as bait for something else (he has a great team-friendly contract)? Seems like they have a lot of cards to play with for these next few weeks.
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 26 2012 19:48 GMT
#6911
The Timberwolves might actually be a nightmare next year. OKC holding the WC throne for a long time doesn't seem like a lock at all.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
Leyra
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1222 Posts
June 26 2012 19:50 GMT
#6912
On June 26 2012 03:30 slyboogie wrote:
Forgot to mention my favorite player in the draft: Jeremy Lamb. Some guys are just ballers. And he's a baller. All the love for Stephen Curry should be poured on him instead.


I'm with this 100%, Jeremy Lamb is also my favorite player coming out of the draft. Also, is it just me, or are the comparisons of the Unibrow to Bill Russell just a little ridiculous? It's like comparing kids to MJ right out of college, you need time to earn those comparisons, to me, at least.
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
June 26 2012 20:02 GMT
#6913
On June 27 2012 04:48 Ace wrote:
The Timberwolves might actually be a nightmare next year. OKC holding the WC throne for a long time doesn't seem like a lock at all.


Really Ace? Why do you say that?
darkness overpowering
Ace
Profile Blog Joined October 2002
United States16096 Posts
June 26 2012 20:05 GMT
#6914
Kevin Love is aruably one of the top players in the game, and Rubio is a great passer and a solid defender. They've got a great coach and have multiple young guys (somebody has to work out, and Derrick Williams can't be bad again).

The main thing is Kevin Love is a franchise player and he is an offensive juggernaut. They just need to get the rest of their young players to be solid contributors. And Chase Budinger can actually hit 3s.
Math me up, scumboi. - Acrofales
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
June 26 2012 20:12 GMT
#6915
Yeah, but I'm not sure how explosive Rubio will be after the injury he sustained. I mean, tearing the ACL isn't anything light. Also, he needs a jumpshot. Love the kid though, and hope he does well. I think the team might still need a few seasons before they can reach OKC heights, if at all.
darkness overpowering
MassHysteria
Profile Joined October 2010
United States3678 Posts
June 26 2012 20:40 GMT
#6916
Pretty good article on truehoop about teams and drafts today. http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/46559/good-teams-know-what-the-draft-offers
"Just ban all the J's...even jinklejoes" --unnamed source
TieN.nS)
Profile Joined August 2003
United States2131 Posts
June 26 2012 20:49 GMT
#6917
On June 26 2012 15:59 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 24 2012 04:35 Ace wrote:
Interesting analysis of the Wizards end of the trade:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/06/23/the-wizards-and-a-future-of-risk/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


Don't really agree with how dour they're making the situation out to be. I stand by my previous post on the trade and support their approach. This whole "the only way to win is by tanking and drafting elite players" idea is getting out of control and has shown itself to fail way more than it succeeds. OKC is great, but a LOT of things had to go right for it to work. How terrible would the league be if it was filled with teams that were either championship contenders and teams tanking for high draft picks? I applaud teams like DEN and WAS for competing while also building for the future. It's not full-proof, but neither is tanking.


I like Adam Gold's solution to fix tanking: http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/39750/fix-tanking-the-sloan-solution

Basically, the team with most wins after having been eliminated from playoff contention gets the #1 pick. The terrible teams will still have better opportunities at the highest picks, but this way they have incentive to keep playing instead of shutting it down and actively trying to get the worst record (and then being rewarded for this...). And this system is obviously better for the teams that are mediocre but actually try to win, like Houston.
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
June 26 2012 20:56 GMT
#6918
You would really think by now that someone would have told that guy to do something about his unibrow.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
Holcan
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2593 Posts
June 26 2012 20:59 GMT
#6919
so the bobcats would never be able to advance without grossly over paying ad they literally don't have enough talent to compete, and won't in tge future by gettibg the 14th pick constantly, while a team with an injured player and solid core can lose themselves to 9th? I don't see how that solves tanking at all.


also I dont mind tanking, I watch basketball for the playoffs, the regular season is just to asses contenders in a laid back way before the playoffs.
Reference The Inadvertant Joey, Strong talented orchastrasted intelligent character.
Leyra
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1222 Posts
June 26 2012 21:19 GMT
#6920
On June 27 2012 05:59 Holcan wrote:
so the bobcats would never be able to advance without grossly over paying ad they literally don't have enough talent to compete, and won't in tge future by gettibg the 14th pick constantly, while a team with an injured player and solid core can lose themselves to 9th? I don't see how that solves tanking at all.


also I dont mind tanking, I watch basketball for the playoffs, the regular season is just to asses contenders in a laid back way before the playoffs.


I'm wondering if I'm the only one who'd be all for the idea that's been proposed many times, reducing the regular season to like 60 or 70 games or something?
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