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Blaming a 13 year old girl for her own suicide on the basis that she's a "slut" is NOT acceptable. |
+ Show Spoiler +"In Pijnacker last night a 13-year-old girl committed suicide possibly because of a so called banga list. On the Internet and social media rumors are going around that the girl has deprived herself of life because her name would appear on a "banga" list. Police in the southern Dutch village has confirmed the suicide, but would not comment." Google translated from; http://www.mediaenkranten.nl/?p=704
A tragic development in The Netherlands. A "Banga-List" as it is called, is something pubescent boys send around. It's a list of their top-10 girls who are "easy" or, as Banga (slang) literally translates to; are sluts. This has been going on for a while and has now come to light. Girls are committing suicide because they are on this list..
What is your opinion about this TL? It's kind of sad as I see it.. But is it something, SO BAD, that is it worth of depriving yourself of life?
Also, is this poor parenting, or what?
Edit:
+ Show Spoiler +The media reports this is not the first suicide because of these lists. Though it is silly, her tweets show things like;
"I can't handle this shit"
"Please, I want to hold on''
And her last tweet:
"I tried, but I can't hold on. Bye xx"
Her twittername provokes such stuff. I won't post here because of respect, but it is so sad.
On March 29 2012 19:45 Ketch wrote:
Hmm, just read her twitter account as it's still public. Looks like a normal teenager tweets, but also a lot of tweets that indicate she is unhappy. Too bad she was that unhappy
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Baltimore, USA22254 Posts
Not that I'm defending it, but I doubt these lists are the cause of any suicides. The catalyst, sure, but not the cause.
Either way. 
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so that banga list means "easy to pick up and fu***" .. disco sluts?
why the hell would u suicide because some idiots put u on a "slut" list?
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On March 29 2012 19:15 EvilTeletubby wrote:
Not that I'm defending it, but I doubt these lists are the cause of any suicides. The catalyst, sure, but not the cause.
I agree. I don't think the list - in itself - would drive someone to that, but if it was just one part of lots of bullying over time etc ...
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why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/
User was temp banned for this post.
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Sad and unnecessary, but I don't think that list would have been the only cause. Must have been a pretty unstable person already.
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My guess is there is more to it than "just" a list like that behind the suicde, sure it must suck but i doubt anyone would actually commit suicide over a thing like that.
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Am i reading this right; Teen boys are making lists of what girls they deem to be easy to sleep with, and because she saw her name on the list, she decided to commit suicide.
I can't personally understand this being a valid reason to kill yourself, but I could possibly be biased since I am male. I can kind of understand the problems this could cause for girls, especially in highschool, where your image is everything and it's even more important for girls.
Was this "banga list" being sent around on facebook and twitter?
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If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I also don't think the guy who made the list is the one to blame. There must have been much more serious issues.
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On March 29 2012 19:20 KonohaFlash wrote:
Was this "banga list" being sent around on facebook and twitter?
There are no details being posted about the actual list in this case, but it's common that social (note the irony) media are used for distribution of these banga lists according to the news.
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On March 29 2012 19:21 -Archangel- wrote:
If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead.
I feel the same way.
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On March 29 2012 19:17 boppel wrote:
so that banga list means "easy to pick up and fu***" .. disco sluts?
why the hell would u suicide because some idiots put u on a "slut" list?
Because you're 13.
On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/
13. Why is the personal life of any 13 year old fair game? And why are you assuming that it was even deserved?
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Well...
Sad news of course but I can't help but feel that this is a silly non-issue. If I commit suicide because Jaedong lost his powerrank place, will we have a huge emo discussion about why flamewheel is evil (not that there is any doubt on that)?
Teenagers are dumb and do dumb things :/
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Guys keep a list of girls who are sluts and share them amongst each other? Is this a Netherlands thing?
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Suicide is a selfish act and never solution of problems, but rather source for problems and suffering of other people. It was her choice and I respect that, but I don't feel sorry nor do I think are the boys that put her on such a list guilty.
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I think these girls got big problems(mentally) and the reason for suicide isn't being on a bang list. Maybe it's the tipping point of stuff they are overwhelmed by but it certainly isn't the sole factor.
On March 29 2012 19:28 Type|NarutO wrote:
Suicide is a selfish act and never solution of problems, but rather source for problems and suffering of other people. It was her choice and I respect that, but I don't feel sorry nor do I think are the boys that put her on such a list guilty.
You are so wrong on so many things in your post I don't even know where to begin. Suicide is a selfish act? If a person doesn't want to live anymore for whatever reason(unhappy, deadly disease, old age, whatever) they must be kept alive against their will so their family can be happy? You don't think the happiness of the specific person is more important than the feelings of the family members? It's their life and their right to do whatever they want with it.
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On March 29 2012 19:26 Forbidden17 wrote:
Guys keep a list of girls who are sluts and share them amongst each other? Is this a Netherlands thing?
I am from the Netherlands myself, and before today, I had NEVER heard of it.
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On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/
Errr. Because they are normal human beings?
Unsurprisingly woman enjoy sex too, however if you call a man a slut, it carries no weight with anyone, however for women, people find it hurtful. We shouldn't shame people for having sex. In this case we should be more concerned with the possibility that this girl was having underage sex.
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On March 29 2012 19:25 lolmlg wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:17 boppel wrote:
so that banga list means "easy to pick up and fu***" .. disco sluts?
why the hell would u suicide because some idiots put u on a "slut" list? Because you're 13. Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/ 13. Why is the personal life of any 13 year old fair game? And why are you assuming that it was even deserved?
I completely agree with you. People don't seem to understand that kids these days are learning about sex at much earlier ages, and are deciding to experiment. I'm not saying that they should be doing this, but it's reality.
I'm pretty sure she didn't know this was going to happen(banga list) and she overreacted about how much of an impact this would have on her life and killed herself.
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Little girls can take a lot of shit from parents and be alienated from previous friends because of this (true or not). More than enough for a 13 year old to feel worthless and without hope.
Still things are never as simple as they appear.
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On March 29 2012 19:26 Forbidden17 wrote:
Guys keep a list of girls who are sluts and share them amongst each other? Is this a Netherlands thing?
Never heard of this. Either way I don't really think this deserves it's own thread. As sad as it is, social pressure and rumors cause teenagers to kill themselves all the time. This isn't anything new really.
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On March 29 2012 19:28 KonohaFlash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:25 lolmlg wrote:On March 29 2012 19:17 boppel wrote:
so that banga list means "easy to pick up and fu***" .. disco sluts?
why the hell would u suicide because some idiots put u on a "slut" list? Because you're 13. On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/ 13. Why is the personal life of any 13 year old fair game? And why are you assuming that it was even deserved? I completely agree with you. People don't seem to understand that kids these days are learning about sex at much earlier ages, and are deciding to experiment. I'm not saying that they should be doing this, but it's reality. I'm pretty sure she didn't know this was going to happen(banga list) and she overreacted about how much of an impact this would have on her life and killed herself.
yeah well then her parents failed in life and raising her up correctly
i, when i was 13 i knew how to fu** without making the girl pregnant and other shit.. because my parents told me what to do when.. and also its teached in school
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On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/
Shame on you for your misogynistic, slut-shaming, bullying post.
A bunch of young teenage boys bully a girl by putting her on a list of "easy" girls, one of the girls commits suicide, and your response is to further shame the victim of the bullying? There is no evidence in the discussion thus far that the girl in question actually "put out easy", as you so charmingly put it, and even if she was sexually active, having sex does not grant a license to anyone who feels like it to bully you.
The casual way that you just dismiss a child's suffering as her own fault because you think she might have had sex is disgusting.
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On March 29 2012 19:20 KonohaFlash wrote:
Am i reading this right; Teen boys are making lists of what girls they deem to be easy to sleep with, and because she saw her name on the list, she decided to commit suicide.
I can't personally understand this being a valid reason to kill yourself, but I could possibly be biased since I am male. I can kind of understand the problems this could cause for girls, especially in highschool, where your image is everything and it's even more important for girls.
Was this "banga list" being sent around on facebook and twitter?
Apparently many people just get thrown on such lists without actually being a slut and when you're on the list you'll just get bullied till no end. Atleast that's what the article said I've never heard about these lists before.
Besides you know how cruel teenagers can be and how emotionally unstable some are.
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On March 29 2012 19:28 Type|NarutO wrote:
Suicide is a selfish act and never solution of problems, but rather source for problems and suffering of other people. It was her choice and I respect that, but I don't feel sorry nor do I think are the boys that put her on such a list guilty.
I do agree with this. I want to add something tho; i myself have been bullied for my whole elamentry? and high school, to a state i quited school. didn't go to it, i never wanted to end my life because off it; but the whole community in the netherlands - is just sooo fucked up. I feel the urge to protect my own family (im dutch btw; moved to belgium at the age of 10) for such things. i got a few nieces around the age of 16. Who have / are going true some just complete bullshit. Wich even 5 years ago, was just not even there. I dunno, im just blown away by this.. dont know what to actually think off it; other then its sad it happend.
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I've never heard of these banga lists before : o
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On March 29 2012 19:34 Paperplane wrote:
I've never heard of these banga lists before : o
It must be a new thing. I do recall sometimes in highschool, guys would talk about some girls that they had sexual encounters with, but nobody would ever make a list and distribute it freely. This is really tragic.
On March 29 2012 19:30 boppel wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:28 KonohaFlash wrote:On March 29 2012 19:25 lolmlg wrote:On March 29 2012 19:17 boppel wrote:
so that banga list means "easy to pick up and fu***" .. disco sluts?
why the hell would u suicide because some idiots put u on a "slut" list? Because you're 13. On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/ 13. Why is the personal life of any 13 year old fair game? And why are you assuming that it was even deserved? I completely agree with you. People don't seem to understand that kids these days are learning about sex at much earlier ages, and are deciding to experiment. I'm not saying that they should be doing this, but it's reality. I'm pretty sure she didn't know this was going to happen(banga list) and she overreacted about how much of an impact this would have on her life and killed herself. yeah well then her parents failed in life and raising her up correctly i, when i was 13 i knew how to fu** without making the girl pregnant and other shit.. because my parents told me what to do when.. and also its teached in school
This has nothing to do with condoms, as she wasn't pregnant( at least from what the OP is says). I don't recall ever being taught by sex education teachers that you shouldn't have sex. All they said was if you wanted to have sex, you should know the risks(STD,STI) and always use a condom. We don't even know for a fact that she did have sex to begin with.
It's entirely possible that someone who wanted to sleep with her, got denied and he put her on the list just to spite her. We don't know all the facts, so it's not fair to make comments about her being a "slut".
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Never heard of this shit. Pretty pathetic to commit suicide over this.
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These things aint simple as they might appear but Imho this is mostly bad parenting issue and it is super sad. :/
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I would guess this kind of list are common everywhere, like teenage boys giving marks to girls passing by. Articles I read focus not on the list itself, but on the fact that they are shared/published on social networks.
The main blow to the girls on the list is probably not that a few dumb boys call them sluts, it is that they broadcast it to the world.
Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers and I guess there are always multiple reasons for a suicide (being a teen is probably the main one), but discussion is rather : how identify / protect against social network harassment without impacting freedom of speach ?
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On March 29 2012 19:39 Oshuy wrote:
I would guess this kind of list are common everywhere, like teenage boys giving marks to girls passing by. Articles I read focus not on the list itself, but on the fact that they are shared/published on social networks.
The main blow to the girls on the list is probably not that a few dumb boys call them sluts, it is that they broadcast it to the world.
Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers and I guess there are always multiple reasons for a suicide (being a teen is probably the main one), but discussion is rather : how identify / protect against social network harassment without impacting freedom of speach ?
Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers? Could you give a source, because frankly, it's most likely not true.
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Poor parenting and a fucked up society.
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What is this bs about being her choice. We're talking about a 13 y old. It's the strengh of strong emotions more than anything else.
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People who suicide just can't handle the truth. no disrespect to people, still i dont think this was the cause, and as people have said, you can't exactly hide being a slut
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On March 29 2012 19:41 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:39 Oshuy wrote:
I would guess this kind of list are common everywhere, like teenage boys giving marks to girls passing by. Articles I read focus not on the list itself, but on the fact that they are shared/published on social networks.
The main blow to the girls on the list is probably not that a few dumb boys call them sluts, it is that they broadcast it to the world.
Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers and I guess there are always multiple reasons for a suicide (being a teen is probably the main one), but discussion is rather : how identify / protect against social network harassment without impacting freedom of speach ? Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers? Could you give a source, because frankly, it's most likely not true.
According to the CDC, it wasn't true in the USA in 2009, and I'd suspect that it's not true world-wide or in Holland, either.
http://www.cdc.gov/Injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCD-Age-Grp-US-2009-a.pdf
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these guys who produce these lists are cowards and they follow the "a good offense is a good defense" approach to hiding their fear....
they point fingers at certain girls .. calling them sluts.. when in fact they'd do anything to have sex with most of the girls on the list.
the guys i knew who had girls "all over them" in school basically kept their "conquests" fairly private because they didn't want the different girls they were banging to know how many different choices they had 
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On March 29 2012 19:41 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:39 Oshuy wrote:
I would guess this kind of list are common everywhere, like teenage boys giving marks to girls passing by. Articles I read focus not on the list itself, but on the fact that they are shared/published on social networks.
The main blow to the girls on the list is probably not that a few dumb boys call them sluts, it is that they broadcast it to the world.
Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers and I guess there are always multiple reasons for a suicide (being a teen is probably the main one), but discussion is rather : how identify / protect against social network harassment without impacting freedom of speach ? Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers? Could you give a source, because frankly, it's most likely not true.
Motor incidents apparently.
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... here girls in schools with a lot of kids from muslim families will be called sluts for dressing normally ... don't have to do anything else.
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Hmm, just read her twitter account as it's still public. Looks like a normal teenager tweets, but also a lot of tweets that indicate she is unhappy. Too bad she was that unhappy
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I assumed this list was obviously just a random teenage "fun" stuff to mock girls and not meant to be based on real experiences. I mean, at the age of ~13, come on.
I'm quite shocked to read some people seem to take this list as completely serious. Or does my reading comprehension fail this much?
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On March 29 2012 19:43 tehneXus wrote:
People who suicide just can't handle the truth. no disrespect to people, still i dont think this was the cause, and as people have said, you can't exactly hide being a slut
I think you are a complete and utter moron. If you object, you just can't handle the truth.
When someone commits suicide, there can be a lot of different reasons, but one of them can easily be a group of kids just deciding that it was fun to pick on that person because he or she was somewhat different, and well - they wanted a victim.
Gay teenagers are more likely to commit suicide for precisely that reason. And that's not because they 'can't handle the truth' - it's because fucking morons think it's fun to ruin someones life for shit and giggles.
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On March 29 2012 19:47 Mafe wrote:
I assumed this list was obviously just a random teenage "fun" stuff to mock girls and not meant to be based on real experiences. I mean, at the age of ~13, come on.
I'm quite shocked to read some people seem to take this list as completely serious. Or does my reading comprehension fail this much?
It doesn't. There are quite a few idiots in this thread.
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EDIT: I think my comment my muck up the thread a bit, so I'm withdrawing it so that it doesn't cause any more trouble.
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when i was in school we use to make lists of girls we would love to go out with lol
So sad though!¬cant see this being the only reason, must be more to it then just a list, perhpas taunts every day and also social networking abuse.. anyway hope they find out and punish anyone invovled!!
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On March 29 2012 19:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:
If you're mind is weak enough to commit suicide because of something that silly, then I don't feel bad for you.
And still another comment like this. Sad and hilarious.
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[Removing because the comment I replied to was redacted]
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Oh, here we go with the "suicide is for cowards" posts. Yowza.
This is eerily reminiscent of the book Thirteen Reasons Why, by Jay Asher, who did an extraordinary job of capturing the depressive thought processes of a teenage girl, and the complex cruelty of the high school social environment.
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what to say? survival of the fittest. maybe her parents were bad, idk, but just killing yourself is pretty weak imo. I guess 13 is the age where girls are probably at their weakest mentally though...
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On March 29 2012 19:47 Mafe wrote:
I assumed this list was obviously just a random teenage "fun" stuff to mock girls and not meant to be based on real experiences. I mean, at the age of ~13, come on.
I'm quite shocked to read some people seem to take this list as completely serious. Or does my reading comprehension fail this much?
I've seen way too many half-dead drunk 12-15 years old kids to be sure that this list is in fact just "fun stuff".
One can see a lot of things if he lives in a small city with sometimes 4X more tourists than original inhabitants.
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On March 29 2012 19:28 KonohaFlash wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:25 lolmlg wrote:On March 29 2012 19:17 boppel wrote:
so that banga list means "easy to pick up and fu***" .. disco sluts?
why the hell would u suicide because some idiots put u on a "slut" list? Because you're 13. On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/ 13. Why is the personal life of any 13 year old fair game? And why are you assuming that it was even deserved? I completely agree with you. People don't seem to understand that kids these days are learning about sex at much earlier ages, and are deciding to experiment. I'm not saying that they should be doing this, but it's reality. I'm pretty sure she didn't know this was going to happen(banga list) and she overreacted about how much of an impact this would have on her life and killed herself.
I agree. It's very hard to have the kind of perspective necessary to weather the effects of hardcore slut-shaming, or the effects of any set of circumstances that result in your community feeling like they have an open license to hound you. We don't know to what extent slut-shaming really had an impact on her life, but it's not uncommon for women to commit suicide when their community turns against them. Often women or girls in this kind of a situation are treated as fair game for many kinds of abuse after their sex lives become exposed. Violence and emotional abuse are very common.
The bottom line is that harassment for any consensual sexual practice is always wrong.
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"banga" is not a Dutch word. o.o I guess I'm out of touch.
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On March 29 2012 19:59 Grumbels wrote:
"banga" is not a Dutch word. o.o I guess I'm out of touch.
I'm guessing it's a word from Suriname or the Dutch Antilles
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On March 29 2012 19:55 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:47 Mafe wrote:
I assumed this list was obviously just a random teenage "fun" stuff to mock girls and not meant to be based on real experiences. I mean, at the age of ~13, come on.
I'm quite shocked to read some people seem to take this list as completely serious. Or does my reading comprehension fail this much? I've seen way too many half-dead drunk 12-15 years old kids to be sure that this list is in fact just "fun stuff". One can see a lot of things if he lives in a small city with sometimes 4X more tourists than original inhabitants.
half-dead drunk 12 year olds!? O.o I speak from experience from when I was around that age, 12 year olds were NOT drinking and fucking around. 14 year olds, yea sure but 12!? Must be a cultural difference I guess.
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I wonder if this list has really malicious intent behind it or if it's just guys helping each other out, because as most of you know guys need to and do help each other get laid (wingmen etc.) whilst from a girls perspective every other girl is in competition with her.
Edit:+ Show Spoiler +I hope she has since been taken off the list or else we have another problem =P
User was temp banned for this post.
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On March 29 2012 19:22 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:21 -Archangel- wrote:
If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead. I feel the same way.
This kind of replies are utter disgusting.
I don't want to read this thread, I'm going to get angry.
Get some dignity here.
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On March 29 2012 19:59 Grumbels wrote:
"banga" is not a Dutch word. o.o I guess I'm out of touch. Keep up with the slang man..
Anyways i wasnt aware of the word nor those list. Crazy teenagers. Seems from her twitter she was pretty unstable so yeah i guess a lot more was probably going on then just that BANGALIST -.-
Sad ofc.
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Yo I don't get people calling her selfish, as none of us knew her life in the slightest. I mean there could be tons of other things bothering her and this could just be the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. Unless you just consider every suicide selfish, a viewpoint I'll concede. Kids have always been assholes, in my high school there wasn't a list but of course people had reputations and technology just let's kids put spread these reputations faster. Such a shame though, young people dying. Also bullying + the internet now seems pretty horrible, even when you go home you can't avoid it. But I wonder if suicide rates are increasing or do I just hear about it more now with internet news.
All the same, judging bad parenting and 'worth depriving your life over'? How can I judge how her parents were when the article doesn't even talk about them. Do you say it's always at least to some degree the parents fault when their child commits suicide? Maybe, but I don't. As to judge whether being on this list is worth committing suicide over, is anything really worth killing yourself over? On the surface, I can't think of anything 'worth' committing suicide over, and I think it's a combination of a ton of different things that put someone in that state. That's like saying, and not to trivialize suicide, was it worth building carriers in that game. On the surface it might seem confusing (who builds carriers?/sc2 whine) but maybe it was a PvT and the T went mass tank/hellion with a low viking count and few thors, then carriers are good. How do you look at one factor and judge a whole situation?
edit: also at everyone saying she 'deserved this' or her parents 'deserved it' - have you ever had immediate family die? Tell me how people deserve to lose family then. Esp a 13 year old girl thinking her only option was to end her life. Holy shit.
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Well,
Shit. When i was a kid.....haha just kidding still a kid. Whenever you think the world is really good, it just goes and sucks.
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how can a 13 year old even be a slut?
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On March 29 2012 19:54 nymfaw wrote:
what to say? survival of the fittest. maybe her parents were bad, idk, but just killing yourself is pretty weak imo. I guess 13 is the age where girls are probably at their weakest mentally though...
Survival of the fittest huh, so you're fine with me beating you up and taking all your stuff because I have a natural advatage?
A thirteen year old actually considered, pre-meditated and enacted her own death. This is serverely troubling.
Maybe you should dwell on some of the shallow compassion which you seemed to exhibit in the 2nd half of your post. Maybe some people (especially 13 year olds) don't have the same clarity about the future or control over their emotions as an adult. Maybe these kinds of people require our help not our condemntation.
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On March 29 2012 19:21 -Archangel- wrote:
If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead. .
Suprised the liberals haven't flamed you yet. Why would parents be responsible if their kid is a slut? You can't really control something like that and most girls have sex around 12-13 now days.
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Remember, these are 13 year olds... People do stupid shit at 13....
I guarantee if these girls only contemplated suicide instead of actually suiciding, they will reflect on those thoughts in 10 years time and think that they were lucky they didn't.
Unfortunately, this isn't the case.
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when i was at secondary school (middle/high school equivalent) i had a friend, she was very pretty, and something like that did happen, bunch of guy were spreading the word on how good she was in bed and how easy she was, even if nothing never happened with them, hell she didnt know/met most of them. Making a list or saying someone is a slut by itself is not cool but it isnt much, but in those situation it is always more then that. Bullying and harassment is the main thing, sometime it get ugly, real ugly over time. For my friend it was going on for nearly 2 years, then it pretty much stopped when a guy (over 18) got in jail for his action, she was devastated psychologically but she held on, but i can see the possibility of a suicide over this.
The list by itself is nothing, it is what people do with it that can destroy life.
It could be some piss of guy get turn down by a chick then the next day he tells everyone at school he bang her at the party, or a chick that get piss because the guy she loves love someone else then they start saying X person is a whore, iam pretty sure everyone here saw that at their school. Some comments here are very offensive, like saying it was fair game or it was deserved to be bash on, keep in mind it could have been you, or your child if you are old enough. When a bunch of kid want to destroy someone, they will, those story about bullying turning into suicide are way too common, it happened here in quebec not log ago, it happen everywhere in the world way too often.
Yet alot of the comments are all the same, the person was weak, he/she deserve it, blablabla, the suicides by itself is bad, but the reaction of those ppl are fucking ugly, iam so tired to see dumb moron blaming the person in distress, any kid can be a target for any reason and even if they made one mistake as a kid, no one deserve that kind of bashing.
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On March 29 2012 20:06 Masq wrote:
how can a 13 year old even be a slut?
well... it's not impossible, just illegal compared to a full grown adult
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On March 29 2012 19:48 MichaelDonovan wrote:
If your mind is weak enough to commit suicide because of something that silly, then I don't feel bad for you.
That being said, it's hard to believe that this was the only reason behind the suicide, so I don't really know how I feel about it.
Ignorant statements like that should stay unnoticed.
The problem is that most kids are all being pressured to being better than one another, being more popular than one another, as if its a competition. They have a false ideology in their minds which forces them to attempt to look good or impress people which starts to develop insecurities in people, and in the severe cases, terrible incidents like this can occur.
I believe parents give their kids too much attention and make kids feel like they have a significant importance over others when in reality, they are just as unimportant as everyone else. When a person realises this, only then is the heavy burden lifted of trying to be popular in front of others.
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On March 29 2012 20:04 Bippzy wrote:
Well,
Shit. When i was a kid.....haha just kidding still a kid. Whenever you think the world is really good, it just goes and sucks.
You think the world is really good? Damn, you're young.
The news in this thread is actually nothing and modern kids are going through a lot of different stuff these days.
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On March 29 2012 20:01 Roflhaxx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:55 Antyee wrote:On March 29 2012 19:47 Mafe wrote:
I assumed this list was obviously just a random teenage "fun" stuff to mock girls and not meant to be based on real experiences. I mean, at the age of ~13, come on.
I'm quite shocked to read some people seem to take this list as completely serious. Or does my reading comprehension fail this much? I've seen way too many half-dead drunk 12-15 years old kids to be sure that this list is in fact just "fun stuff". One can see a lot of things if he lives in a small city with sometimes 4X more tourists than original inhabitants. half-dead drunk 12 year olds!? O.o I speak from experience from when I was around that age, 12 year olds were NOT drinking and fucking around. 14 year olds, yea sure but 12!? Must be a cultural difference I guess.
It must be due to the fact that there are a lot of pubs, discos etc in our town.
One of the saddest moments in my life was when I saw 5-6 classmates of my sister (who is 13) laying on the middle of the road with a beer bottle at their hands.
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On March 29 2012 20:07 sharky246 wrote:well... it's not impossible, just illegal compared to a full grown adult
In America it's not illegal if they are both young like that. I remember middle school 6th 7th grade most girls were having sex. Sounds so disgusting to me 6th, 7th grade 12-13 year olds with multiple partners having sex. I guess it's just so troll these girls could be married to some old guy back then. (I do not approve of it just because it was accepted back then)
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The scary thing is she is on the slut list and only 13 years old o.O
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On March 29 2012 20:10 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:01 Roflhaxx wrote:On March 29 2012 19:55 Antyee wrote:On March 29 2012 19:47 Mafe wrote:
I assumed this list was obviously just a random teenage "fun" stuff to mock girls and not meant to be based on real experiences. I mean, at the age of ~13, come on.
I'm quite shocked to read some people seem to take this list as completely serious. Or does my reading comprehension fail this much? I've seen way too many half-dead drunk 12-15 years old kids to be sure that this list is in fact just "fun stuff". One can see a lot of things if he lives in a small city with sometimes 4X more tourists than original inhabitants. half-dead drunk 12 year olds!? O.o I speak from experience from when I was around that age, 12 year olds were NOT drinking and fucking around. 14 year olds, yea sure but 12!? Must be a cultural difference I guess. It must be due to the fact that there are a lot of pubs, discos etc in our town. One of the saddest moments in my life was when I saw 5-6 classmates of my sister (who is 13) laying on the middle of the road with a beer bottle at their hands.
Sometimes I think that small towns with easy pubs are worst for kids than big clustered towns, in that particular aspect.
Not that I'm a fan of big cities, btw.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
When i was growing up in high school many of the opposite happens in England. Girls with lists of "fit guys" on and rated them from the class your in etcetc. I was always top 3 in class on the "list" so i did not ever get effected by these lists but 9/10 it was popularity list more than a look list. My point, many of these lists girls do on boys never seem to effect any boy into this sort of situation. Like the first comment says i really doubt this list is the direct cause of these girls commiting suicide more of a catalyst.
Girls seem to feel emotions more than boys to also add to the perspective?
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Our girls in school were never on the verge of killing themselves because we made those lists. Blame the parents here !
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On March 29 2012 19:15 EvilTeletubby wrote:Not that I'm defending it, but I doubt these lists are the cause of any suicides. The catalyst, sure, but not the cause. Either way.
Yes, but we are talking about young teenagers here. They'll overreact because, in their eyes, their "life" is ruined, and don't understand the ramifications of their actions. It's probably part of several factors, like you point out. They probably have a lot of insecurities and this is a "tipping point" or an excuse for them to take their own lives, almost to spite people.
Pretty unfortunate stuff
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On March 29 2012 19:28 vijeze wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:26 Forbidden17 wrote:
Guys keep a list of girls who are sluts and share them amongst each other? Is this a Netherlands thing? I am from the Netherlands myself, and before today, I had NEVER heard of it.
Same and ''banga'' is not a dutch word either.
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I am so out of this planet. When I was 12-13 I can tell for sure no one in my year had sex. 14+ some, but 12-13... no one that I know and I knew pretty much every guy in my year (4 class-rooms).
What the fuck happened? Or this matter is so different from country to country.
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On March 29 2012 20:06 Dali. wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:54 nymfaw wrote:
what to say? survival of the fittest. maybe her parents were bad, idk, but just killing yourself is pretty weak imo. I guess 13 is the age where girls are probably at their weakest mentally though... Survival of the fittest huh, so you're fine with me beating you up and taking all your stuff because I have a natural advatage? A thirteen year old actually considered, pre-meditated and enacted her own death. This is serverely troubling. Maybe you should dwell on some of the shallow compassion which you seemed to exhibit in the 2nd half of your post. Maybe some people (especially 13 year olds) don't have the same clarity about the future or control over their emotions as an adult. Maybe these kinds of people require our help not our condemntation.
Kids have gone through things that are much worse than what she did and still made it through. Of course she needed help, because she was weak. It's actually pretty rare for a 13 year old to commit suicide.
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On March 29 2012 19:28 DwD wrote:I think these girls got big problems(mentally) and the reason for suicide isn't being on a bang list. Maybe it's the tipping point of stuff they are overwhelmed by but it certainly isn't the sole factor. Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:28 Type|NarutO wrote:
Suicide is a selfish act and never solution of problems, but rather source for problems and suffering of other people. It was her choice and I respect that, but I don't feel sorry nor do I think are the boys that put her on such a list guilty. You are so wrong on so many things in your post I don't even know where to begin. Suicide is a selfish act? If a person doesn't want to live anymore for whatever reason(unhappy, deadly disease, old age, whatever) they must be kept alive against their will so their family can be happy? You don't think the happiness of the specific person is more important than the feelings of the family members? It's their life and their right to do whatever they want with it.
I wont tell my own opinion on this, but give you some insight of how one of my best friends experienced the suicide of her 5year long boyfriend.
she and the whole family of that boy were destroyed for months. Some of them had to go to therapy and my friend had nightmares for years. She also told me that she thinks suicide is a selfish act, because you leave the people you love with so much pain, it might happen, that your death results in permanent damage or even another suicide among your beloved ones. So many people will ask themself if they were the reason for the death, even if thats not the case. In her case, that boy was a sick fuck. He had a great family, his girlfriend would have done everything for him, but he choose to hang out with neonazis, take all kinds of drugs and just do fucked up shit. I guess he finally woke up from his "nightmare"-like life and saw himself soo deep in shit, that suicide was the only way out. But it is not! It is the fastest and the easiest, but some people are not able to see this and spare no thoughts about the consequences.
In the end it is a tragedy and a waste of a great gift. life.
p.s.: one comment towards that list - it is just stupid and no girl should ever take shit like this serious and hopefully some boys will act like men when their friends come up with ideas like this and tell them to their faces to stop doing shit like this. Just think of your sister or future daughter and what you want them to experience in life. this will help a lot with your decision making.
edit: please excuse my language.
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13 years old and she's on that list? maybe it she was the cause of her suicide
User was temp banned for this post.
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The banga-list part of this story is very likely to be a hoax. (Not the suicide) Also banga is derived from the marrocan language, not really dutch.
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13 year olds having to put up with crap like this is just downright depressing..
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On March 29 2012 20:20 Geen wrote:
The banga-list part of this story is very likely to be a hoax. (Not the suicide) Also banga is derived from the marrocan language, not really dutch.
Or simply bang-a-<random word describing a female>.
At least this seems the msot logical to me.
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On March 29 2012 20:19 nymfaw wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:06 Dali. wrote:On March 29 2012 19:54 nymfaw wrote:
what to say? survival of the fittest. maybe her parents were bad, idk, but just killing yourself is pretty weak imo. I guess 13 is the age where girls are probably at their weakest mentally though... Survival of the fittest huh, so you're fine with me beating you up and taking all your stuff because I have a natural advatage? A thirteen year old actually considered, pre-meditated and enacted her own death. This is serverely troubling. Maybe you should dwell on some of the shallow compassion which you seemed to exhibit in the 2nd half of your post. Maybe some people (especially 13 year olds) don't have the same clarity about the future or control over their emotions as an adult. Maybe these kinds of people require our help not our condemntation. Kids have gone through things that are much worse than what she did and still made it through. Of course she needed help, because she was weak. It's actually pretty rare for a 13 year old to commit suicide.
What I find regunant about your assessment is that you consider her 'weak', as though she is to blame. She was a kid. Her frame of reference was a barely adolesant mind, one obviously cramed with social 'expectation' and the maintainance of 'status'.
Maybe you aren't placing the blame on her, but it sure seems like you are. And I find that kind of sentiment disgusting.
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On March 29 2012 20:25 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:20 Geen wrote:
The banga-list part of this story is very likely to be a hoax. (Not the suicide) Also banga is derived from the marrocan language, not really dutch. Or simply bang-a-<random word describing a female>. At least this seems the msot logical to me.
A lot of Dutch slang is strongly influenced by immingrant cultures. Like Geen posted, banga comes from Maroccan, which is a large immigrant culture in the Netherlands.
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really sad story, i wish this could have been prevented in some way. a 13 year old girls emotions are so powerful, if only she had some sort of guidance to help her control them.
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one word, LOL.
Don't take me wrong, but I think this girl just wanted the attention (13 years old, tweeting stuff about love stuff, got 23k tweets (lolwtf) with stuff like "I tried but it wasn't enough" and such). It's completely normal that guys talk about who's a slut in schools (yes I encounter this a lot of times in my school).
I think this girl overreacted, and she is 13. Come on man, when I was 13 i was playing outside and I didn't even got interested in gossips.
User was warned for this post
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On March 29 2012 20:23 FlamingForce wrote:
13 year olds having to put up with crap like this is just downright depressing..
Is it though? I saw crap like this all the time in middle/ high school. I don't really see the depressing nature of that and I dare say that it was an isolated incident in the netherlands or any other place in the world.
I think the real problem here is a parenting fail. Obviously she was taught far more inferior ways to deal with her problems instead of just brushing it off and calling the kid who wrote it a loser or a moron. That's what is really depressing.
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The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is teenagers being torn apart by the rational feeling they are doing nothing wrong when they do it and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people.
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On March 29 2012 20:18 whiterabbit wrote:
I am so out of this planet. When I was 12-13 I can tell for sure no one in my year had sex. 14+ some, but 12-13... no one that I know and I knew pretty much every guy in my year (4 class-rooms).
What the fuck happened? Or this matter is so different from country to country.
a million times this.
who the hell has sex before 14+
and even then, it's not like 95% of teens is sexually active, more like a loud semi-minority (kids that have sex so they can say to their friends they had it, not because they need it and/or are ready for it)
i blame bad parenting, and state of mind in today's society where children (yes, children) don't actually understand consequences of sex in full, yet engage in it so bloody young. no wonder every generation gets worse, when we have relationships/marriages where couples are simply not ready for adult life or having children, yet they force it on themselves.
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If this was the only thing that happened and not continuous bullying or something of that nature, this is someone who had major problems. "Normal", stable people will not kill themselves for something like that. Also if you have lots of sex when you're 13, not just once or twice? That also signals that something is not exactly right.
This feels a bit like Columbine and Doom/Music thingy. The Banga-list didn't make her kill herself but it was the straw that broke the camel's back, with unstable people you never know what might trigger a reaction of this magnitude.
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Often girls who are really insecure and "slutty" have underlying issues. Sad that she killed herself, but I don't think the list was the cause. I hope they don't punish the kids too much, they're probably already pretty traumatized.
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On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is teenagers being torn apart by the rational feeling they are doing nothing wrong when they do it and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people.
Read your post and agreed completely. Saw your name afterwards: Mind = Blown!
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WAT!?
Someone can just put any name of a girl he/she knows in a "slut" list even if she ain't a slut?
What the hell was she thinking? She commited suicide because of that?? it's just down right stupid..
Not like she was admitting she was a slut then or she was busted a slut, but still it aint sane to be a reason for suicide.
I am begining to think that news about commiting suicide and all from like bullying and whatever adds up as a fad and these young teenagers think it's cool to be doing suicide. Not to mention emo post all over the net spreading like adverts involving cut bloody wrist horseshit and etc. I think they all add up to stupid teenager's perspective of being cool.
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On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is teenagers being torn apart by the rational feeling they are doing nothing wrong when they do it and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people.
Oh my god I thought you were serious for a second lol. Well played.
Anyways, on topic: I don't understand the reasons for putting such a young girl on a slut list (maybe she puts out? maybe she's just really attractive?) but any form of bullying is, unfortunately, occasionally going to lead to dire consequences of this magnitude. In school, image is everything, and being labeled as a slut and having your reputation as a good person completely tarnished and trashed by some idiot guys must be appalling. It's surely worse as a girl than a guy when it comes to self-image and being objectified.
When I was 13, if I were to create a slut list, the names Misty, Nurse Joy, and Officer Jenny would have appeared on that list. Not real girls though, because hoooly shit that's early to actually be engaging in sexual relationships x.x
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On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is teenagers being torn apart by the rational feeling they are doing nothing wrong when they do it and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people.
Smart in the game and out of it it seems (: .
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On March 29 2012 20:25 Antyee wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:20 Geen wrote:
The banga-list part of this story is very likely to be a hoax. (Not the suicide) Also banga is derived from the marrocan language, not really dutch. Or simply bang-a-<random word describing a female>. At least this seems the msot logical to me.
or banger as in gangbanger or something. Who knows. Anyways this is just bullying gone to the extreme. Kids dont know when to stop until its too late.
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On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is conflit in mind when teenagers doing nothing wrong when they have sex and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people.
i underlined a problem
women having sex without social stigma =/= teenage girls having sex without social stigma
we're talking 13 year old girl here. for women, yes, it is truly "remains of primitive social shield", but for little girls it's a nother thing completely.
edit: was that a troll? O.o
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The real problem is the medieval mindset that most people still have about sex.
I was kind of hoping that since we are living in 2012, not 1012, that we might have moved past the moronic obsession with virginity and chastity.
Women are not property who's value decreases the more time they touch a dick.
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On March 29 2012 20:49 snailz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is conflit in mind when teenagers doing nothing wrong when they have sex and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people. i underlined a problem women having sex without social stigma =/= teenage girls having sex without social stigma we're talking 13 year old girl here. for women, yes, it is truly "remains of primitive social shield", but for little girls it's a nother thing completely.
You can't draw a line for everybody to decide when they become adult and responsible. A 13 years old girl can be way more wise and informed than a 80 years old woman. The young generations right now have so much informations about sex and are so open about it that I don't really see the issue in a 13 years old girl having sex.
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On March 29 2012 20:51 zalz wrote:
The real problem is the medieval mindset that most people still have about sex.
I was kind of hoping that since we are living in 2012, not 1012, that we might have moved past the moronic obsession with virginity and chastity.
Women are not property who's value decreases the more time they touch a dick.
I think (adult) women engaging in sexual relationships and 13 year old little girls engaging (or even being accused of engaging) in sexual relationships are entirely different.
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On March 29 2012 19:43 AmericanUmlaut wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:41 Recognizable wrote:On March 29 2012 19:39 Oshuy wrote:
I would guess this kind of list are common everywhere, like teenage boys giving marks to girls passing by. Articles I read focus not on the list itself, but on the fact that they are shared/published on social networks.
The main blow to the girls on the list is probably not that a few dumb boys call them sluts, it is that they broadcast it to the world.
Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers and I guess there are always multiple reasons for a suicide (being a teen is probably the main one), but discussion is rather : how identify / protect against social network harassment without impacting freedom of speach ? Suicide is the most common death cause for teenagers? Could you give a source, because frankly, it's most likely not true. According to the CDC, it wasn't true in the USA in 2009, and I'd suspect that it's not true world-wide or in Holland, either. http://www.cdc.gov/Injury/wisqars/pdf/10LCD-Age-Grp-US-2009-a.pdf
Depends on the categories you define. If you take the same categories as the US study, nederlands is accidents first, then suicide, then homicide (having more homicides than suicides is US specific).
Some studies make subcategories for accidents : traffic accident / domestic accidents / work accidents / ... In that case it becomes traffic accidents first, with suicides a close second.
(I remembered suicide first, but it was for the 25/45 group age)
Didn't find the dutch version, french version for 2009
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Poor girl it is a terrible shame that a child had to feel the need to resort to that kind of action.
I just don’t understand how there was no one to help, her parents or a friend anyone it only takes one person, I think they should have some kind of compulsory program for all parents to attend for a day sometime in the first ten years of their Childs life so they can be taught how to identify warning signs for suicide, schools should also have a day every year to learn about it as well starting from sixth grade or something so they have like a full week of the suicide program once they graduate.
Just teach them a basic principle to watch for like
Situational (what has happened to a person)
1: loss of loved one or friend
2: loss of prestige (which is what they are trying to say caused this girl to go that far)
3: loss of resources (money/credit/imaginary money/items etc)
Behavioural (how they act each day)
1: Talking negatively more often then not
2: Not participating in regular activities.
3: Ending close relationships.
Emotional
1: Feelings of hopelessness.
2: Withdrawal/isolation.
3: overwhelming sadness
I feel sad that some people have no one to help I have trouble understanding that in a school group that there is not one person that wouldn’t think they need some help, it is really hard to blame parents since unless you know the signs as a parent the general feeling is “their my kid they wouldn’t do that they are alright” it can be tough to see it for what it truly is.
I always have a feeling of “I wish I knew them I want to help” every time I see something like this
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On March 29 2012 20:07 Instigata wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:21 -Archangel- wrote:
If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead. . Suprised the liberals haven't flamed you yet. Why would parents be responsible if their kid is a slut? You can't really control something like that and most girls have sex around 12-13 now days.
Lol, I am a liberal. And a father. My girl is not near 13 yet but if she turns out like this I will consider it first of all my fault then then the fault of society or others.
Parents job is to teach their kids how to survive this stuff. All parents had similar experiences (either been popular or unpopular) and they MUST be able to teach their kids how to survive this easier.
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On March 29 2012 20:57 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:07 Instigata wrote:On March 29 2012 19:21 -Archangel- wrote:
If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead. . Suprised the liberals haven't flamed you yet. Why would parents be responsible if their kid is a slut? You can't really control something like that and most girls have sex around 12-13 now days. Lol, I am a liberal. And a father. My girl is not near 13 yet but if she turns out like this I will consider it first of all my fault then then the fault of society or others. Parents job is to teach their kids how to survive this stuff. All parents had similar experiences (either been popular or unpopular) and they MUST be able to teach their kids how to survive this easier.
Well said. Definitely agree.
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poor thing.. Social pressures can be so hard to deal with at that age, especially with our world getting smaller thanks to social media.
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On March 29 2012 20:52 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:49 snailz wrote:On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is conflit in mind when teenagers doing nothing wrong when they have sex and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people. i underlined a problem women having sex without social stigma =/= teenage girls having sex without social stigma we're talking 13 year old girl here. for women, yes, it is truly "remains of primitive social shield", but for little girls it's a nother thing completely. You can't draw a line for everybody to decide when they become adult and responsible. A 13 years old girl can be way more wise and informed than a 80 years old woman. The young generations right now have so much informations about sex and are so open about it that I don't really see the issue in a 13 years old girl having sex.
i would have to say that those 13 year old girls you speak of are an exception that proves the rule...
when i was 13, girls wearing metallica shirts looking for their identity through music genres with "bff" signs all over their bags and avril-lavigne-cute-looks was a big thing, almost no one was anywhere near adulthood or any form of responsibility, let alone trying to look like and act a real, mature woman.
when i grew up i noticed that there actually are 13 year old girls that could sell 18-year old apperance. but talking to them you can see the difference between them and two years older counterparts, that outfit the same looks.
so i would again have to say that while they may be girls like you describe, they are so rare we as a society can't really say "there is no issue in a 13 years old girl having sex"
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I fail to see how a 13 year old committing suicide in response to bullying means the problem is societal standards. If sex among 13 years was fine then you just get different types of bullying - people who didn't have sex, won't do certain things, are considered bad in bed, etc. Overall the whole story is a tragedy but it's a girl committing suicide, tragic but not groundbreaking. If anything it's just some form of bullying people aren't used to hearing about. But it could be just me.
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On March 29 2012 19:28 DwD wrote:I think these girls got big problems(mentally) and the reason for suicide isn't being on a bang list. Maybe it's the tipping point of stuff they are overwhelmed by but it certainly isn't the sole factor. Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:28 Type|NarutO wrote:
Suicide is a selfish act and never solution of problems, but rather source for problems and suffering of other people. It was her choice and I respect that, but I don't feel sorry nor do I think are the boys that put her on such a list guilty. You are so wrong on so many things in your post I don't even know where to begin. Suicide is a selfish act? If a person doesn't want to live anymore for whatever reason(unhappy, deadly disease, old age, whatever) they must be kept alive against their will so their family can be happy? You don't think the happiness of the specific person is more important than the feelings of the family members? It's their life and their right to do whatever they want with it.
Both posts are ridiculous...She's fucking 13. No 13 year old in the world actually knows if they would rather die.
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So funny how allegedly grown-ups judge the "decisions" of a 13 year old. Yuy guys are barely over 20 and already have lost the slightest idea of how it is to be a kid.
It's clear that most of these comments come from guys who grew up as socially rejected nerds who didn't have to worry about being "cool" as a teenager because it was hopeless anyway.
Sickens me to the bone.
User was temp banned for this post.
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I dont know why, but the generations coming from behind dont know what planet they live on.All people say the access to information makes us good, more inteligent, but it seems its the other way for so many people.Comiting suicide for such a stupid reason is just plain retarded imo.Guess its just natural selection.
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On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is teenagers being torn apart by the rational feeling they are doing nothing wrong when they do it and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people.
I just gained a whole new level of respect for you.
On March 29 2012 20:57 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:07 Instigata wrote:On March 29 2012 19:21 -Archangel- wrote:
If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead. . Suprised the liberals haven't flamed you yet. Why would parents be responsible if their kid is a slut? You can't really control something like that and most girls have sex around 12-13 now days. Lol, I am a liberal. And a father. My girl is not near 13 yet but if she turns out like this I will consider it first of all my fault then then the fault of society or others. Parents job is to teach their kids how to survive this stuff. All parents had similar experiences (either been popular or unpopular) and they MUST be able to teach their kids how to survive this easier.
Would you say the same about your boy?
Oh wait, there's no such thing as "slut list" for boys.
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It's mainly fault of the guys who make these lists, but it's also partially her fault for not expecting the consequences, although it's hard to estimate how mature a girl is at that age. It's an age with a very broad possible spectrum of maturity.
That's for the fault regarding the problem, the fault for the consequences goes to parents, teachers and friends. Messages from suicidal people are usually very discomforting for the people receiving them, as they resemble final goodbyes.
Any good parent would notice that and immediately start a serious conversation.
It's also weird that she fully committed to that suicide at the first attempt. I don't know the details, but i would guess that she jumped from a roof. Hanging oneself is the most frequent method around this part of Europe, but i don't believe that she would have been capable of that.
RIP however.
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I'm an 18 years old man from Denmark.
My guess is that the list ruins their "social image" and hence they feel that their life is ruined. I personally can NOT understand this meaningless social ego. So what, you are more sexually developed than the rest of the girls your age, what is the problem? Sex is the most natural thing humans do! Hell, if i was her class mate(and at her age ofc) and i knew that she was open about sex, then i would be much more cormfortable about asking her out, than if i didn't know if she was even interrested in sex yet :O
People need to look beyond useless things as "social images", those things hold no meaning at all, because they can change overnight.
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Just wanted to give some more translation on the latest tweets. Looks to me like a case of multiple things going wrong in her life because of this list, even though she sounds like a instable, emotion-based person in the first place. I hope this helps with everyone 'judging' her. Just going to pick the ones which stood out for me, without going back too far. Will be in chronological order, starting with the oldest:
"People are very stupid"
"Stupid school, I'm quitting it (it meaning school)"
Response to a friend saying: "Hey, what's wrong?": "Nothing xx"
"I think you're scary" (you is not specified, but most likely the maker of this list or someone who spread it)
"I want to go to a different school"
"I want to tell mom, but on the other hand I don't because I don't want to make her sad" (stood out a lot for me, for obvious reasons)
"Noone will understand my feelings"
"They have to behave now!"
"It would've been better if I wasn't there"
"I thought it was all solved, but now there's a lot of different shit"
"I want to prove myself and try but..."
"No words" -> Putting on my shoes" -> "Going outside now" -> "So close now" -> "I loved you all but it's too late now, xx"
It was heartbreaking to read, but I think will provide a better standpoint for all of you. Suicide in my eyes seems like an act of desperation, caused by the fact that this list, or something else involving people on her school bullying her, made her think her whole life was ruined.
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How is it even possible to be a slut at 13? I didn't even know the average girl is having sex at that age.
User was warned for this post
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On March 29 2012 20:52 aTnClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:49 snailz wrote:On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is conflit in mind when teenagers doing nothing wrong when they have sex and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people. i underlined a problem women having sex without social stigma =/= teenage girls having sex without social stigma we're talking 13 year old girl here. for women, yes, it is truly "remains of primitive social shield", but for little girls it's a nother thing completely. You can't draw a line for everybody to decide when they become adult and responsible. A 13 years old girl can be way more wise and informed than a 80 years old woman. The young generations right now have so much informations about sex and are so open about it that I don't really see the issue in a 13 years old girl having sex.
Firstly, there is nothing to suggest in the OP that the 13 year old actually was sexually active, or even that the ‘banga’ list was definitely the motivation behind her suicide.
Regardless of this, that a 13 year girl would be deeply troubled by anyone insinuating she was a 'slut' seems obvious; precisely as of CLouD suggests, since women are subject to a certain kind of treatment due to a negative perception of their sexuality, a child subject a similar negative perception of their (real or imagined) sexuality should too also experience a sense of threat or shame. The difference being of course that a child lacks the emotional maturity and social knowledge to deal with this, at least, safely (which is not to suggest that this is legitimate when directed at an emotionally mature and well-reasoned woman).
With all due respect CLouD, I do disagree however with your Social-Darwinist model but do agree that much of the root of this attitude towards female sexuality is due to paternal anxiety. And yes it is backward.
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On March 29 2012 21:05 Ahelvin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is teenagers being torn apart by the rational feeling they are doing nothing wrong when they do it and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people. I just gained a whole new level of respect for you. Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:57 -Archangel- wrote:On March 29 2012 20:07 Instigata wrote:On March 29 2012 19:21 -Archangel- wrote:
If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead. . Suprised the liberals haven't flamed you yet. Why would parents be responsible if their kid is a slut? You can't really control something like that and most girls have sex around 12-13 now days. Lol, I am a liberal. And a father. My girl is not near 13 yet but if she turns out like this I will consider it first of all my fault then then the fault of society or others. Parents job is to teach their kids how to survive this stuff. All parents had similar experiences (either been popular or unpopular) and they MUST be able to teach their kids how to survive this easier. Would you say the same about your boy? Oh wait, there's no such thing as "slut list" for boys.
I would say the same about the boy.
People have to learn at some point that having sex with everyone in sight isn't a good thing.
If one doesn't learn it at young age, why could he/she learn it later, when up until that time it was suggested as a good thing.
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On March 29 2012 20:27 Rannasha wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:25 Antyee wrote:On March 29 2012 20:20 Geen wrote:
The banga-list part of this story is very likely to be a hoax. (Not the suicide) Also banga is derived from the marrocan language, not really dutch. Or simply bang-a-<random word describing a female>. At least this seems the msot logical to me. A lot of Dutch slang is strongly influenced by immingrant cultures. Like Geen posted, banga comes from Maroccan, which is a large immigrant culture in the Netherlands.
[off topic]
Current Dutch youth culture has integrated some words into it's vocabulary from immigrant culture. Reason being that 3rd or 4th generation immigrant kids/young adults are currently successful in the Dutch entertainment (RAP/R&B) scene. Their lyrics introduce new words upon an impressionable young generation of fans. However, as someone from a now older generation, I can tell you this "slang" begins and end with the generation it's created in. The "slang" of my generation was heavily influenced by American and UK culture. And the only people who still use these "slang" words are from my generation.
Every generation has their counter-culture, but it fades out with a new generation of young impressionable minds [/off topic]
The banga-list started popping up a few weeks ago in dutch main-stream media. And in some great Fox-like news reporting is now suddenly responsible for suicides. I'm saddened by the news that this girl killed her-self, but I do not think this list alone is responsible. I can't believe that there are people with such a low amount of common-sense that they will blame a list for a suicide.
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totally understandable.
poor girl maybe had sex with a nice guy from football club and thought it was her first love and she lost her virginity to most awesome guy ever and soon after he declares her a slut.
imagine youre in a town with 3k citizens, maybe 100-150 your age +-3 years, and then such a list comes out.
what can a 13 yo do?
ignore -> ppl just make more fun of you, nerdy ugly 16 yo guys think they can have sex with you and will come on to you each and everytime you go out for the next 3 months. best option imho.
move away -> no option for 13 yo
admit and be proud -> if youre not on top of the list this change of lifystyle probably wont fit to a 13 yo girl.
and this thoughts doesnt even include talks to parents and possible effects on the local job market (if she was to look for apprenticeship soon)
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On March 29 2012 21:04 hokuspokus wrote:
So funny how allegedly grown-ups judge the "decisions" of a 13 year old. Yuy guys are barely over 20 and already have lost the slightest idea of how it is to be a kid.
It's clear that most of these comments come from guys who grew up as socially rejected nerds who didn't have to worry about being "cool" as a teenager because it was hopeless anyway.
Sickens me to the bone.
You sir, or ma'am, have just proven how underdeveloped your brain is, and how much of a sick f*ck you are.
You have apperently not read the post on this thread, because all i see is people commenting on that the suicide act was overkill(no pun intended), and it was! some guys think that you are easy to get to sleep with and so what if i may ask? How many people inthe world do you know, that do not want to have sex?
Also on your second note. Being "cool" or not have nothing to do with the situation. Let's say she actually was somewhat of an idol in her school, then why would she even care about some idiots who write such an useless list? If you can't handle that there exist a bunch of douschebags in this world, then you are waaay too sheltered for your own good, as atlleast 30% of the human population is douschebags, and you will have to work together with them later when you get a job.
Also, being cool in a highschool does exactly what for you? I don't know from which outdated society you came from, but here
In Denmark, we don't socially catagorise people like being "cool" or a "loser" and so on. We border us self off of with our friends from the rest of our class, but remain on firendly terms with all of our classmates. We just don't socially interact with them outside school.
User was warned for this post
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Most of these replies don't understand how fragile developing people can be. Kids take stuff seriously that they won't take as seriously when they've reached a more mature part of their life. Sad story, though.
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Teenage girl going through puberty, emotions out of control unpredictable, ends up killing herself because she's ashamed that people think she is a slut and put her on a public list. Honestly, its a sad story, but nothing shocking, people have killed themselves over less, we'll never understand why she did this.
And earlier I saw someone say suicide isn't selfish, I couldn't disagree with you more, suicide takes your problems and puts them on someone else's plate, whilst also creating problems.
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So sad, they need to start teaching basic morality in schools; with the internet, the license to be a cunt and a douchebag has increased, and with it the effects it can have on people have intensified, just have classes in school that don't just warn kids of the internet but teach them how not to be a cunt on it.
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Like Evilteletubby said, I'm pretty sure these lists are catalysts, but not the cause of suicide. Being called a slut isn't bad enough to make people commit suicide, unless they are extremely sensitive.
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noone but the partents are to blame. In fact, they should face trial.
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Sad story especially at 13.
Still I feel it might be the proof (for the lack of a better word) of a wider phenomenon occuring in GB and NL. I am living in the middle of Paris and most of the international students are living nearby (Cité Internationale). What I noticed is that a certain type of clothing habits can be linked strongly to either UK or NL female students : short skirts or robes, high heels, revealing tops all year long - sometimes a treat for the eyes, sometimes a walking buoy. Some might it called that "slutty" or "whorish", I personally find it bad tasted.
Now you could argue that this observation is not an official study and it's purely based on my own vision of the international student crowd. Both facts are true, nonetheless I think there is an undeniable link (real or not) between what needy boys (whose sexuality is awakening) perceived as a "slut" girl and her outfits. And as we all look upon our elders to provide models, it becomes a problem has consequences in the harsh and unforgiving social system that is teenage groups. I don't know enough about this topic to elaborate possible causes for that but it's certainly a topic worth debating on.
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On March 29 2012 19:26 Forbidden17 wrote:
Guys keep a list of girls who are sluts and share them amongst each other? Is this a Netherlands thing?
There was a similar story to this in Norway a couple of months ago, the kids in question where older though (16,17), nobody committed suicide though. Hell, even me and my friends made such a list when we were in high school o.O
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I'm keeping an eye on this thread now. Please keep the discussion civil and respectful. Blaming a 13 year old girl for her suicide on the basis that she's a "slut" is not acceptable.
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I don't think we should look into this too much.
I highly doubt you can blame those lists for it, rather just the general state of mind this girl had.
For the vast majority such lists would be considered as something light-hearted and too laugh about.
As harsh as it's gonna sound but if commiting suicide even crosses your mind when ur on such a list there is/was probably someting wrong with her mentally.
edit:
Off course I think it's very sad, but I don't think this is something that could actually become a problem.
Rather just a single incident, from a child going through puberty that was mentally unstable.
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It's not even clear if there was an actual list at this point. Its all rumors and knowing our police more info will not be forthcoming due to the victims privacy (and that of her family). As it should be, this is a private tragedy.
That said, guys have been making lists of women they would like to sleep with for ages. Didn't start with the internet or with the evil social media. High school is still like the breakfast club.
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People who commit suicide have usually serious depressions.
The parents should have gone to a clinic much much earlyer.
Its sad that a kid of 13 gets anti-depressives but no other solution around usually.
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Experience a similar stage during my teenage years. Guys on the similar-esque lists hailed like kings, the girls sadly were utterly shamed. Although I must say it was probably 'easier' (probably over generalization, but it certainly felt that way) being a girl, as there were many other horrifying lists for guys with rankings from basic factors such as penis size, money to more disturbing and very specific extremes.
A young girl actually did too suicide for similar reasons, which in my opinion was very selfish of her to do so. The real victim would be her loved ones and people adversely affected by the situtation. Later the girl's ex got blamed for incident, outcasted and later tried to suicide himself, surprising enough. Although he failed and lives in a braindead state ever since.
Kids, these days...
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the saddest part is that no one around her helped her...
that list is crap anyway, never heard of it before and I can't really see how that list is definately the 'cause' of her suicide.
there must be other reasons as well
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
TL:DR pp2-7.
From reading page 1 of comments, I am appalled. ***EDIT: I have just read some other posts from pages 2-7. I am still appalled. Girls-who-post-on-TL: how would you feel if the people whom you slept with put you on a banga list? ***
1. There is no genuine sympathy for the girl, for such a terrible incident.
2. There were no expressions of "This is wrong" from any poster. What are we? Are we emotionless animals who have no empathy, sympathy or mercy in us? Where did our compassion go?
3. let me ask you guys this question: What if your daughter was on the "banga list"?
Now don't give me the "My daughter wouldn't be, because I will educate her well and she wouldn't leave her door downstairs open."
Well, from what I've seen in the comments, most of you think having sex when you are young is alright, as long as you feel like it, as long as it's consensual and as long as "you're both having fun."
Right. So you're so going to teach your daughter how to choose the right sexual partners. You're going to teach your daughter that sex is cool, as long as you have safe sex, as long as it's fun and have it with men who they feel good with. So don't use this "Her parents should be ashamed / responsible" type of excuse. Because even if you teach her all of this, she may still have sex with many men. And some of these men will make these banga lists. And your daugher may be on it.
So once again: "What if your daughter was on the banga list and was terribly depressed from it?"
Let me describe to you in no uncertain terms: This is like having all of your family and friends, all of your social circles, all peoples who you are potentially going to meet, to know that you paid for a prostitute, only for her to reject you because you are too ugly. Now imagine if that kind of story was known to ALL of your immediate social circles. Shame? You bet. And this was simply a parallel for men, a weak one at that.
And being on a "banga list" is 10x worse. I cannot find an equally shameful example for males.
Once again: "What if your daughter was on the banga list?"
What would you do, as a dad? How would you feel? Would you be making comments such as
On March 29 2012 19:28 Type|NarutO wrote:
Suicide is a selfish act and never solution of problems, but rather source for problems and suffering of other people. It was her choice and I respect that, but I don't feel sorry nor do I think are the boys that put her on such a list guilty. ?
Ofcourse suicide is a selfish act. It hurts everybody. But it provided a solution - a closure to her problems. A very terrible solution. How could we not attribute the boys action to this terrible ending for this young girl? How would you feel if you were the father of this girl? How would you feel towards the boys who did this?
What about the parents of the boys who do these lists? Should they be ashamed? Or are they also just like your average internet-citizen who thinks sex is just something to throw around, to do with whomever you like? No consequences?
I rest my case. I am not morally superior. I am the worst of sinners. I am a broken man, highly susceptible to lust, broken by sin and sorrowed by the sin of this world. But Jesus is my hope. Repent, believe in Jesus, that you may be forgiven. Judgement is surely coming and I rest my hope in God the Son who died and rose again to eternal life.
************ I won't reply to this thread, send me PM's if you want to chat. I wrote my first post in a long time as my sense of justice warred against the ungodliness from the comments.
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This is not an individual problem, we have guys going on a rampage because they get bullied in school, and girls committing suicide because they get bullied. The last thread about a school shooting is merely one month old. And there was a joint suicide of 3 girls that never even met before here in germany last summer.
And the bullies don't care, they think it's fun to put someone else in misery, and they are not going to stop. Society needs to find a way to deal with it, because some people (teens) can't. What's the advice to someone who's getting bullied? Live with it? Some people literally can't. If they talk to someone about it, they just get bullied again for being a snitch, so how does someone escape from that situation? Bullying is a serious problem, especially for teens, and many suffer from it, some more than others. But it's a widespread problem, and only through stories like this the public gets to know how desperate the situation can get.
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United Arab Emirates1141 Posts
On March 29 2012 22:22 Alvin853 wrote:
This is not an individual problem, we have guys going on a rampage because they get bullied in school, and girls committing suicide because they get bullied. The last thread about a school shooting is merely one month old. And there was a joint suicide of 3 girls that never even met before here in germany last summer.
And the bullies don't care, they think it's fun to put someone else in misery, and they are not going to stop. Society needs to find a way to deal with it, because some people (teens) can't. What's the advice to someone who's getting bullied? Live with it? Some people literally can't. If they talk to someone about it, they just get bullied again for being a snitch, so how does someone escape from that situation? Bullying is a serious problem, especially for teens, and many suffer from it, some more than others. But it's a widespread problem, and only through stories like this the public gets to know how desperate the situation can get.
Truly. Finally a decent post. Suicide doesn't "just happen". It usually happens when bad stuff has gone on for a long time and the person is hopeless. It takes a lot of suicidal ideation and planning, possibly several failures, before a person can succeed. Now, why does bad stuff happen? Because men are evil. What should be done about evil? Well you tell me
Bullies, verbally, socially, physically, over the internet, and whatever kind of bully you can find under the sun - how should they be dealt with? For me, I have certainty that justice will be dealt with. For "Vengeance is Mine" says the LORD.
But what about this girl? Or the countless people who live in fear, in shame and in helplessness?
Rape is another blight on broken mankind which we still deal with very poorly both socially, educationally and judicially.
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On March 29 2012 22:20 JesusOurSaviour wrote:TL:DR pp2-7. From reading page 1 of comments, I am appalled. ***EDIT: I have just read some other posts from pages 2-7. I am still appalled. Girls-who-post-on-TL: how would you feel if the people whom you slept with put you on a banga list? *** 1. There is no genuine sympathy for the girl, for such a terrible incident. 2. There were no expressions of "This is wrong" from any poster. What are we? Are we emotionless animals who have no empathy, sympathy or mercy in us? Where did our compassion go? 3. let me ask you guys this question: What if your daughter was on the "banga list"? Now don't give me the "My daughter wouldn't be, because I will educate her well and she wouldn't leave her door downstairs open." Well, from what I've seen in the comments, most of you think having sex when you are young is alright, as long as you feel like it, as long as it's consensual and as long as "you're both having fun."Right. So you're so going to teach your daughter how to choose the right sexual partners. You're going to teach your daughter that sex is cool, as long as you have safe sex, as long as it's fun and have it with men who they feel good with. So don't use this "Her parents should be ashamed / responsible" type of excuse. Because even if you teach her all of this, she may still have sex with many men. And some of these men will make these banga lists. And your daugher may be on it. So once again: "What if your daughter was on the banga list and was terribly depressed from it?" Let me describe to you in no uncertain terms: This is like having all of your family and friends, all of your social circles, all peoples who you are potentially going to meet, to know that you paid for a prostitute, only for her to reject you because you are too ugly. Now imagine if that kind of story was known to ALL of your immediate social circles. Shame? You bet. And this was simply a parallel for men, a weak one at that. And being on a "banga list" is 10x worse. I cannot find an equally shameful example for males. Once again: "What if your daughter was on the banga list?" What would you do, as a dad? How would you feel? Would you be making comments such as Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 19:28 Type|NarutO wrote:
Suicide is a selfish act and never solution of problems, but rather source for problems and suffering of other people. It was her choice and I respect that, but I don't feel sorry nor do I think are the boys that put her on such a list guilty. ? Ofcourse suicide is a selfish act. It hurts everybody. But it provided a solution - a closure to her problems. A very terrible solution. How could we not attribute the boys action to this terrible ending for this young girl? How would you feel if you were the father of this girl? How would you feel towards the boys who did this? What about the parents of the boys who do these lists? Should they be ashamed? Or are they also just like your average internet-citizen who thinks sex is just something to throw around, to do with whomever you like? No consequences? I rest my case. I am not morally superior. I am the worst of sinners. I am a broken man, highly susceptible to lust, broken by sin and sorrowed by the sin of this world. But Jesus is my hope. Repent, believe in Jesus, that you may be forgiven. Judgement is surely coming and I rest my hope in God the Son who died and rose again to eternal life.
************ I won't reply to this thread, send me PM's if you want to chat. I wrote my first post in a long time as my sense of justice warred against the ungodliness from the comments.
There has been exactly 0 evidence pointing towards there actually being a banga-list. Both the school and the police don't confirm it, it's just the media.
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How can someone be a "slut" at age 13? They should be barely old enough to have sex at all, biologically
Or she was called a slut cuz she kissed many boys or what? im a bit confused here
Also yes, no one event makes you kill yourself, I studied a bit the psychology research regarding the issue and mostly events to which the act is linked are only the catalyst so to say or the last drop in the glass. This could be an exception, but i wouldnt be surprised if it turns out she had some childhood trauma or something.
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On March 29 2012 22:32 Geo.Rion wrote:
How can someone be a "slut" at age 13? They should be barely old enough to have sex at all, biologically
Or she was called a slut cuz she kissed many boys or what? im a bit confused here
In some countries, legal marriage age is/was 12.
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I imagine that a Banga list, especially among 12-13 year olds, is mostly based on rumors and judgements than solid fact. She could have just been really ashamed to be considered a "slut" when she really wasn't.
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The problem is not the slut. The problem is society's conservative ass religious views that sex is taboo. If you want to see something that is genuinely fucked in the ass, have a look at this... Andy Lau is like China's most famous porn star, and this chick wanted to meet him, let's just say it ended in suicide:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/entertainment/att/site1/20070329/xin_5703042917090082584337.jpg) Leaving a twelve page letter to daughter's idol Andy Lau, Yang Qingji ended his 68 years long life in Hong Kong on March 26 after his daughter attends an activity with her idol Andy Lau. Yang's daughter Yang Lijuan is a 28-year-old girl from northwestern China's Gansu province. After the first time she dreamed of Andy 13 years ago, she became a huge fan of him. Since then, she quitted school and spent all the time thinking of her idol. All she wants is to meet Andy Lau and tell him how she loves him. To support daughter's dream, Yang Qingji and his wife spent up every penny of their savings. They sold the only house they had in Lanzhou City. Yang even decided to sell one of his kidneys to a local hospital, but he was refused because it's illegal. However, they never had chance to meet or talk to Andy. Several days ago, the family entered Hong Kong for the third time. With the help of Andy's fans club, Yang Lijuan finally had an opportunity to attend Andy's birthday activity with hundreds of his fans on March 25. To her disappointment, she only got few minutes to take picture with Andy instead of having a conversation with him. Her life long dream did not come true. Being unacceptable to this result, Yang Qingji wrote a letter blaming Andy's coldness to his daughter and drowned himself in despair after daughter and wife fell in sleep. In his letter, he thought it was Andy's responsibility to arrange a private meet with his daughter, even for five minutes. Yang Lijuan and her mother were in deep sorrow after Yang's death. Yang Lijuan showed her regret of loving Andy Lau for so many years to reporters. But she still insisted that Andy should meet her again, otherwise her father's death was meaningless. She took Andy as the root cause of her father's death. Although critics think the deficiency of courage to face the reality after fulfilling years' dream is the real reason of the tragedy. Andy Lau responds through his agency on March 28 that he has fulfilled Miss Yang's hope of meeting on the birthday activity. Feeling astonished and disappointed, he hopes Miss Yang can go back to hometown and start her own life. He refuses to meet her any more. Leaving father's dead body in Hong Kong, Yang Lijuan and her mother went back to Lanzhou on March 28 without .making it clear what to do next.
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Blaming a 13 year old girl for her own suicide on the basis that she's a "slut" is NOT acceptable.
The fact that this had be put up front saddens me almost as much as the topic itself...
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On March 29 2012 22:22 Alvin853 wrote:
This is not an individual problem, we have guys going on a rampage because they get bullied in school, and girls committing suicide because they get bullied. The last thread about a school shooting is merely one month old. And there was a joint suicide of 3 girls that never even met before here in germany last summer.
And the bullies don't care, they think it's fun to put someone else in misery, and they are not going to stop. Society needs to find a way to deal with it, because some people (teens) can't. What's the advice to someone who's getting bullied? Live with it? Some people literally can't. If they talk to someone about it, they just get bullied again for being a snitch, so how does someone escape from that situation? Bullying is a serious problem, especially for teens, and many suffer from it, some more than others. But it's a widespread problem, and only through stories like this the public gets to know how desperate the situation can get.
I read the dutch news, which I'm assuming most people here can't, and I have no idea what actually happened. All we know is that a girl killed herself and the rest is just rumours. I don't see the need to make a tragic suicide immediately into a bullying problem.
This topic shouldn't even be open. There's nothing to discuss on the basis of the OP.
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On March 29 2012 20:57 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 20:07 Instigata wrote:On March 29 2012 19:21 -Archangel- wrote:
If a 13 year old really did deserve the spot on that list, her parents should have committed suicide instead. . Suprised the liberals haven't flamed you yet. Why would parents be responsible if their kid is a slut? You can't really control something like that and most girls have sex around 12-13 now days. Lol, I am a liberal. And a father. My girl is not near 13 yet but if she turns out like this I will consider it first of all my fault then then the fault of society or others. Parents job is to teach their kids how to survive this stuff. All parents had similar experiences (either been popular or unpopular) and they MUST be able to teach their kids how to survive this easier.
I dislike your emphasis on survival. Childhood isn't about survival, it's about laying the pavement for your future. Even if, and I'll use your words, they'll "survive" this, they might be mentally scarred for life. They might have social anxiety as a result. Even their life quality might decrease because they are taught just to survive this.
And you are a father. You should have a different mentality. Parents shouldn't teach their kid to survive this, they should prevent them for being put in that situation in the first place. You should focus more on being active in the community, trying to get bullying occur less in and outside of school. Shit, even tell the schools to have presentation about bullies.
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This is just sad.
Underlying issues must have had something to do with this as well. But people taking their own life, at only 13 is a very sad thing
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Nothing says she actually did anything, her name could be on the list because she
1) She did,
2) Straight up bullying
3) The boys thought she looked easy..
4) She turned one of them down and this was "revenge"
5) Boys saying they did for "cred"
Multiple reasons, probably more.
I'm pretty sure every boy at that age with their friends played yes/no with girls they knew, passed in the street etc (not that if the chance came to it, you'd have any idea what you were doing anyway)
The difference was, it wasn't written down and then posted on social networking sites for the world to see. Which is probably what caused this, it's different if that boy in your class who's a bit of a dickhead thinks you're a slut, to everyone in the school / local area thinking you are.
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On March 29 2012 22:35 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:32 Geo.Rion wrote:
How can someone be a "slut" at age 13? They should be barely old enough to have sex at all, biologically
Or she was called a slut cuz she kissed many boys or what? im a bit confused here In some countries, legal marriage age is/was 12.
I also know cases when girls under 10 are married, not my point, i'm speaking being old enough biologically to have sex long enough to be considered a slut for it,
On March 29 2012 22:39 Gingerninja wrote:
I'm pretty sure every boy at that age with their friends played yes/no with girls they knew, passed in the street etc (not that if the chance came to it, you'd have any idea what you were doing anyway)
The difference was, it wasn't written down and then posted on social networking sites for the world to see. Which is probably what caused this, it's different if that boy in your class who's a bit of a dickhead thinks you're a slut, to everyone in the school / local area thinking you are.
yes, i was thinking something along those lines, it just doesnt seem plausible to be a slut, in the full meaning of the word, at age 13
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Hey, can we try a re-framing exercise? Say the title of this discussion was "Dutch girl commits suicide because her community of peers shamed and ostracised her" - I suspect (and perhaps I'm being idealistic) that there would be considerably fewer posts saying "no sympathy for the her", "that was her decision and it was selfish".
The making of the list was likely a small factor in the grand scheme of things. The sex, if there was any, is almost irrelevant. The real damage would have probably come from the social repercussions from being put on that list, and I think that any culture that creates and condones that behaviour needs a close examination.
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All we know is there was a list of somebody with names of girls on it who he thought would be easy to have sex with. And we know that one girl on that list suicided.
Anybody coming to conclusions with these information here can only reflect his own expiriences, keep that in mind.
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OK, I decided to do a crude google translate on the linked article from http://www.mediaenkranten.nl/?p=704
Does anyone here speak Dutch and are they willing to do a better job? Also, does anyone know whether Mediakranten is a reliable Dutch website/source?
I have edited the trans to make the English readable and have guessed the sense – therefore I would advise a Dutch-English translation by someone fluent in both languages to really get a reliable sense of the article but I have tried my best and have added notes below:
In Pijnacker last night a 13-year-old girl committed suicide possibly due to a banga list. On the Internet and social media [there are] rumours that the girl has deprived himself of life because her name would appear on a "banga" list. Police in the southern Dutch village have confirmed the suicide, but would not comment.
[The girl on the banga list was called Livia], she was found badly injured last night in a forest along the Old Klapwijkseweg Pijnacker. She was in critical condition [and was] transported by a trauma helicopter to the hospital, but later [died] of her injuries.
A banga list is a new phenomenon among young people. "Banga" means slut in slang. Pupils send each other lists by a top 10 girls which they are the biggest sluts. Girls in such a list because a lot of bales [?], because often they have no reason given and it is difficult to get rid of the stigma.
Mr. Zuiderwijk, branch director of the College Stanislas in Pijnacker, where the girl was at school, speaks of a 'sad mood' at school today:
"I'm going to get our students to absorb them the news. And a list banga I know nothing. I think it is a twitter message, but what doorgetwitterd [?] is endless. Our first concern is the students, and of course the protection and support of the parents of the girl. "
Zuiderwijk never [saw] a banga list at his school. "But you understand that if one would be that they really do not show to the director."
Girls [are] scared [of] banga lists more and more, girls are afraid of the so-called 'banga list, a list with the names of the biggest sluts, prepared and sent by students. Banga means slut in slang. Sometimes there is the name of the girl or they are easy to decorate, and whether they naakfoto [naked photo?] of herself forward.
Girls do not want on the list because it is difficult from the list and the label 'slut' to come. In addition, girls are often unprovoked banga on such list.
Pretty thin on evidence, but the trans may have obscured it.
What does seem the case is that the Director down plays the role of the banga list in her suicide and indeed a banga list and it’s motivation in her suicide are called ‘Internet and social media rumours.’ The only thing confirmed by police is the girl’s suicide.
IMO the media and the internet (and this thread) have jumped on the most sensational aspect of the story – the unfounded rumours that she was on a banga list and therefore actually sexually active.
I know nothing about the school or village and little about Dutch culture. This may be big news in NL but I do not have access to NL national news sites for obvious reasons – any concrete sources of these would be of benefit to this thread and translations would be welcome.
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On March 29 2012 20:38 aTnClouD wrote:
The real problem here is that sex for women is still seen as something to give very carefully to the right person. We don't need this anymore since birth control is not an issue. It's a primitive, outdated defense for something technology solved already and the result is teenagers being torn apart by the rational feeling they are doing nothing wrong when they do it and having done something terribly wrong whenever they are pointed as sluts by society. There's no one to blame here other than the remains of a primitive social shield to prevent women from having children with random people.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
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On March 29 2012 22:42 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:35 Dandel Ion wrote:On March 29 2012 22:32 Geo.Rion wrote:
How can someone be a "slut" at age 13? They should be barely old enough to have sex at all, biologically
Or she was called a slut cuz she kissed many boys or what? im a bit confused here In some countries, legal marriage age is/was 12. I also know cases when girls under 10 are married, not my point, i'm speaking being old enough biologically to have sex long enough to be considered a slut for it, Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:39 Gingerninja wrote:
I'm pretty sure every boy at that age with their friends played yes/no with girls they knew, passed in the street etc (not that if the chance came to it, you'd have any idea what you were doing anyway)
The difference was, it wasn't written down and then posted on social networking sites for the world to see. Which is probably what caused this, it's different if that boy in your class who's a bit of a dickhead thinks you're a slut, to everyone in the school / local area thinking you are. yes, i was thinking something along those lines, it just doesnt seem plausible to be a slut, in the full meaning of the word, at age 13
Females can go through puberty as early as 8, 9 isn't that rare. Biologically speaking, by 13, it's possible. But I doubt 13 year old boys have a good grasp on the word "slut". I'm sure a girl who has done anything, of any sort, is a slut to them.
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13? thats so young to be doing anything and its young for other people to be putting on a slut list (assuming the other people are 13 as well or similar age)
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Sad story. A list like that is shameful, but boys in puberty tend to stupid things without thinking too much. And unfortunately some teens are very labile... Can't tell how much bullying was involved, the list itself rather looks like a stupid joke among teenage boys and not like a serious libel. It's not clear how much bullying went on in the background though, so the case is impossible to judge without further information. Probably she was either very labile before or there was more than just that list. I don't think an emotionally healthy girl would have committed suicide over a stupid list that probably would be forgotten about in a few weeks.
On March 29 2012 22:20 JesusOurSaviour wrote:
...
Ist that guy serious or just a troll?
Anyway, hypocritical prudery like this is was makes 'incidents' like the one described in the OP such a big problem... It's the same way of thinking that makes some religious fanatics in Islamic Countries stone women for ''adultery'' or ultraorthodox jews spit a women basically for walking in the streets... I'm disgusted. Even if it was troll. Cause some people are serious about stuf like that... Obviously 13 year old girls shouldn't be f*cking around but it's really no ones business except their own's and their parents ones. And people probably didn't even know if she did. And shouldn't know aswell...
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On March 29 2012 21:54 Haemonculus wrote:
I'm keeping an eye on this thread now. Please keep the discussion civil and respectful. Blaming a 13 year old girl for her suicide on the basis that she's a "slut" is not acceptable.
Thank you.
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she was going around doing guys at 13? shitty parents, shitty kid, her fault in my opinion. and there is no way this is the one thing that provoked her suicide, her parents are probably junkies or abuse her or some shit.
User was banned for this post.
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So pubescent boys have a list like this? If one thing, their parents should of commited suicide as they have failed in teaching their children how to act like children and not immature adults.
Some of the main things you should teach children is respect. Obviously this isnt the case and probably isnt the cause, but has certainly helped in making someone take their own life. Children are learning about sex at younger ages that what im sure most of us learned about it, but the parents need to step in and say what is right and what is wrong about it.
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I agree that there's nothing to discuss here.
It's bad for kids to call girls sluts and bully them about it in school? Obviously.
It's sad that the girl committed suicide? Obviously.
Kids are kids, I only really feel appalled in one of these cases if an adult knew and did nothing to intervene. In this case, I see no evidence of that, so I have to say it's just one of many tragic things that occurs in the world each day. I can assure you that in 99% of schools, if such a list is found there will be severe punishments for whoever made it. Bullying in general is a problem, but we don't even know the extent to which this girl was teased, or if she had mental problems, or chemical imbalances, or was the victim of abuse, or anything.
TLDR: Sucks. The end?
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On March 29 2012 22:47 Falan wrote:
Anyway, hypocritical prudery like this is was makes 'incidents' like the one described in the OP such a big problem...
i disagree, i think a lackadaisical attitude about sex as long as it's "safe" is what causes such problems in the first place. of course the girl could easily have been suffering from other issues, and probably was, and as was said earlier, this was more likely a catalyst than a cause. basically, kids are getting mixed messages here, society tells them to go ahead and have all the sex they want, and then looks down on them when they do it. i think both attitudes are equally bad and unhealthy.
edit: poor kid, i hope she's at peace now. feel really bad for her parents and friends, and most of all for her. 13 is too young for something like this.
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On March 29 2012 22:46 Deleuze wrote:OK, I decided to do a crude google translate on the linked article from http://www.mediaenkranten.nl/?p=704Does anyone here speak Dutch and are they willing to do a better job? Also, does anyone know whether Mediakranten is a reliable Dutch website/source? I have edited the trans to make the English readable and have guessed the sense – therefore I would advise a Dutch-English translation by someone fluent in both languages to really get a reliable sense of the article but I have tried my best and have added notes below: Show nested quote +In Pijnacker last night a 13-year-old girl committed suicide possibly due to a banga list. On the Internet and social media [there are] rumours that the girl has deprived himself of life because her name would appear on a "banga" list. Police in the southern Dutch village have confirmed the suicide, but would not comment.
[The girl on the banga list was called Livia], she was found badly injured last night in a forest along the Old Klapwijkseweg Pijnacker. She was in critical condition [and was] transported by a trauma helicopter to the hospital, but later [died] of her injuries.
A banga list is a new phenomenon among young people. "Banga" means slut in slang. Pupils send each other lists by a top 10 girls which they are the biggest sluts. Girls in such a list because a lot of bales [?], because often they have no reason given and it is difficult to get rid of the stigma.
Mr. Zuiderwijk, branch director of the College Stanislas in Pijnacker, where the girl was at school, speaks of a 'sad mood' at school today:
"I'm going to get our students to absorb them the news. And a list banga I know nothing. I think it is a twitter message, but what doorgetwitterd [?] is endless. Our first concern is the students, and of course the protection and support of the parents of the girl. "
Zuiderwijk never [saw] a banga list at his school. "But you understand that if one would be that they really do not show to the director."
Girls [are] scared [of] banga lists more and more, girls are afraid of the so-called 'banga list, a list with the names of the biggest sluts, prepared and sent by students. Banga means slut in slang. Sometimes there is the name of the girl or they are easy to decorate, and whether they naakfoto [naked photo?] of herself forward.
Girls do not want on the list because it is difficult from the list and the label 'slut' to come. In addition, girls are often unprovoked banga on such list. Pretty thin on evidence, but the trans may have obscured it. What does seem the case is that the Director down plays the role of the banga list in her suicide and indeed a banga list and it’s motivation in her suicide are called ‘Internet and social media rumours.’ The only thing confirmed by police is the girl’s suicide. IMO the media and the internet (and this thread) have jumped on the most sensational aspect of the story – the unfounded rumours that she was on a banga list and therefore actually sexually active. I know nothing about the school or village and little about Dutch culture. This may be big news in NL but I do not have access to NL national news sites for obvious reasons – any concrete sources of these would be of benefit to this thread and translations would be welcome.
The article on the website seems to be taken from the Algemeen Dagblad (AD) website (Article). The AD is a usually reliable, but slightly sensationalist newspaper in the Netherlands read mainly for its sports section. It's nowhere near as bad as some of the foreign newspapers and can be considered somewhat credible. It is however part of its 'local' and not 'national' coverage, which means the desk responsible is at the lower end of the 'quality'-spectrum.
+ Show Spoiler +
In Pijnacker heeft gisteravond een 13-jarig meisje zelfmoord gepleegd. Op internet en sociale media gaan geruchten dat het meisje zich van het leven heeft beroofd omdat haar naam zou voorkomen op een zogenaamde 'bangalijst'. De politie in het Zuid-Hollandse dorp heeft de zelfmoord bevestigd, maar wil geen commentaar geven.
Het meisje, Livia, werd gisteravond in een bos langs de Oude Klapwijkseweg in Pijnacker zwaargewond aangetroffen. Zij werd in kritieke toestand met een ambulance afgevoerd naar het ziekenhuis, maar is later aan haar verwondingen overleden. Een traumahelikopter was ook aanwezig.
Onrust
Het overlijden van Livia heeft tot grote onrust geleid in het Zuid-Hollandse dorp onder de rook van Delft. Slachtofferhulp is ingezet voor de kinderen uit haar straat en vriendinnetjes in de buurt.
Bangalijst
Een bangalijst is een nieuw fenomeen onder jongeren. 'Banga' betekent slet in straattaal. Scholieren sturen elkaar lijstjes door met een top 10 van meisjes die volgens hen de grootste sletten zijn. Meisjes die op zo'n lijst voorkomen balen daar flink van, want vaak hebben ze geen enkele aanleiding gegeven en is het lastig van het stigma af te komen.
'Treurige sfeer'
Vestigingsdirecteur Zuiderwijk van het Stanislascollege in Pijnacker, de school waar het meisje leerling was, spreekt van een 'treurige sfeer' op school vandaag. De school van het meisje heeft een herdenkingsruimte geopend waar jongeren elkaar kunnen ontmoeten.
'Ik heb onze leerlingen opgevangen om ze het nieuws te vertellen. En van een bangalijst weet ik niets. Volgens mij gaat het om een twitterbericht wat maar eindeloos doorgetwitterd wordt. Onze eerste zorg is nu de leerlingen, en uiteraard de bescherming en de ondersteuning van de ouders van het meisje.'
Een bangalijst heeft Zuiderwijk nog nooit op zijn school gezien. 'Maar u begrijpt, dat als er eentje zou zijn, ze die echt niet aan de directeur laten zien.'
That's the original article in Dutch. I'm not going to translate it line by line but it states the following facts:
- A 13 year old girl killed herself in Pijnacker
- There's a rumor on twitter that she killed herself because she was on a 'banga'-list
- The police refuses to comment.
- The director of the school stated that '[And] I don't know anything about a banga-list. I think it is a twitter message that keeps getting tweeted over and over.' He then clarifies that statement by saying that if there was a list, he is unlikely to have seen it.
This is a discussion based on rumors on twitter and people are condemning whoever they feel like based on their own preferences. Make it into a bullying topic, make it into a 'sex too early' topic, whatever we feel like. Seems awfully disrespectful.
She seemed like someone with quite a few friends and quite a normal life. It's sad and that's all it is for now. This is news in the Netherlands, it gets a short byline in the newspaper at this stage. Dutch culture is letting the authorities do their respective jobs and not speculate as to what could have caused it, out of respect for the privacy of the victim and her family.
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On March 29 2012 22:52 ozzy1346 wrote:
she was going around doing guys at 13? shitty parents, shitty kid, her fault in my opinion. and there is no way this is the one thing that provoked her suicide, her parents are probably junkies or abuse her or some shit.
I suggest you read the mod note in white above the first post on each page and rethink the phrase 'shitty kid.'
EDIT:
Derez, your effort is truely appreciated, many thanks.
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13 year old committed suicide? fail parenting imo
User was temp banned for this post.
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Is it mentioned anywhere, HOW she killed herself?
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On March 29 2012 23:02 SiPa wrote:
Is it mentioned anywhere, HOW she killed herself?
why would that matter? You got some weird fetish? 
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On March 29 2012 22:52 ozzy1346 wrote:
she was going around doing guys at 13? shitty parents, shitty kid, her fault in my opinion. and there is no way this is the one thing that provoked her suicide, her parents are probably junkies or abuse her or some shit.
Your post embodies the fact that sex is handled differently - for instance, if we reverse the genders, the start of your post would read:
"he was going around doing girls at 13? shitty parents, shitty kid, his fault in my opinion."
What's wrong with a boy going around having sex at the age of 13? Is that a result of his "shittiness" or his shitty background? What would be more appropriate behaviour for a boy of good upbringing and personality at that age? Given the situation - boy is publicly being listed as being "easy" - would we expect him to respond negatively and be under social pressure?
What's wrong with a girl going around having sex at the age of 13? Is that a result of her "shittiness" or her shitty background? What would be more appropriate behaviour for a boy of good upbringing and personality at that age? Given the situation, would we expect her to respond negatively and be under social pressure?
If the answers to these are different, then we have a problem.
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I always find it hard to feel sorry for people who commit suicide... Espacialy over something like this. I can't help but think: if you don't want people to call you a slut don't act like one. Althougt at the age of 13 her parent's should take alot of the blame for not keeping a closer eye on wat there 13 year old daughter do's.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Two things:
Generally speaking, guys who call girls are fffffff.....idiots! I mean, the day that they are standing around incredible horny and frustrated outside a girls house who just rejected them I'd loooove to stop by and laugh at their face. It's litterally the most counter-intuative thing some guys do! How does "I wanna sleep with you" translate into "YOU are a slut" - Talk about hindering your own progress!
Perfect example of this idiocy:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/
User was temp banned for this post.
Not to mention as we can see in this article - it's clearly very hurtful to some girls. I think alot of them have huge insecurities especially when it comes to sexual things!
Secondly, I'm calling bad parenting on this one! If you get enough love and care from home this is much less likely to affect you so severely as in this case!
Edit: Apparantly the guy above me is just as smart as the guy who I quoted :/
I can't help but ask: What on earth is your logic?? Like what on earth would be the reason for you feeling like calling anyone a "slut"?? Are you some kind of weirdo who look upon sex as something vile and something you have never thought about or wanted?
You don't even know what this girl did? She could actually be one of the first girls in the class to use make-up to get on such a list. Some guys are just idiots. And even if she had sex one time, are you gonna tell me that you'd hate the thought of having sex in your early teen years?? :/
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On March 29 2012 23:03 Skilledblob wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 23:02 SiPa wrote:
Is it mentioned anywhere, HOW she killed herself?
why would that matter? You got some weird fetish?
Not rly, it matters to me cause i had some lectures during medschool about suicide. I dont rly want to explain any details here (cause i am lazy) now, PM me if you wanna know more.
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Honestly this is just another example of someone careing too much. If these idiots put you on this list, and you didn't deserve it, then laugh at them and their uninformedness.
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On March 29 2012 22:58 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2012 22:47 Falan wrote:
Anyway, hypocritical prudery like this is was makes 'incidents' like the one described in the OP such a big problem... i disagree, i think a lackadaisical attitude about sex as long as it's "safe" is what causes such problems in the first place. of course the girl could easily have been suffering from other issues, and probably was, and as was said earlier, this was more likely a catalyst than a cause. basically, kids are getting mixed messages here, society tells them to go ahead and have all the sex they want, and then looks down on them when they do it. i think both attitudes are equally bad and unhealthy. edit: poor kid, i hope she's at peace now. feel really bad for her parents and friends, and most of all for her. 13 is too young for something like this.
Any age is too young for suicide. I don't think a lackadaisical attitude about sex or mixed messages are the problem here, rather people starting a witchhunt over things that just don't are their goddamn business is the problem. If there was a parenting fail in the story, than rather the boys' parents are to be blamed...
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On March 29 2012 19:17 boppel wrote:
so that banga list means "easy to pick up and fu***" .. disco sluts?
why the hell would u suicide because some idiots put u on a "slut" list?
Probably because she felt it was at least partly true. Combined with other factors (low self-esteem, etc). And due to guys like this:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 29 2012 19:19 Silidons wrote:
why put out in the first place then. they want to be a slut in secret?
ah well maybe if they got bullied over shit etc. but if the sole reason if cuz they put out easy...then thats kinda their own problem :/
User was temp banned for this post. Should they have to have sex in secret? I'm not sure I understand you. Furthermore what right do you have to judge how other people live their lives?
I doubt she actually wanted to die. Most suicide attempts from girls are just that, they're very bad at committing suicide, or good at avoiding it if you want to see it that way. It's mostly screams for help, and I would think that, with the very limited information at hand, this would have been the more likely scenario. Unfortunately, both for her, her family and the people who made the list, she managed to off herself for real.
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On March 29 2012 22:57 Cel.erity wrote:
I agree that there's nothing to discuss here.
It's bad for kids to call girls sluts and bully them about it in school? Obviously.
It's sad that the girl committed suicide? Obviously.
Kids are kids, I only really feel appalled in one of these cases if an adult knew and did nothing to intervene. In this case, I see no evidence of that, so I have to say it's just one of many tragic things that occurs in the world each day. I can assure you that in 99% of schools, if such a list is found there will be severe punishments for whoever made it. Bullying in general is a problem, but we don't even know the extent to which this girl was teased, or if she had mental problems, or chemical imbalances, or was the victim of abuse, or anything.
TLDR: Sucks. The end?
I have to agree with this notion.
If anything, we as a society need to look at this situation and learn from it, find ways that we can help give younger peoples dealing with issues such as this, or you know abuse in general (I not gonna call it bullying, that just gives it a nicer word, an out if you will.) so that it doesn't happen again in the future.
It is really unfortunate, especially when you read her twitter you can tell she wanted some help/knew of the issues for a couple weeks or more. As a teacher myself it pains me to think that all it would have taken is maybe an hour of someones time taken to reach out to this girl and all could have been averted.
-.-
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On March 29 2012 23:04 romanov wrote:
I always find it hard to feel sorry for people who commit suicide... Espacialy over something like this. I can't help but think: if you don't want people to call you a slut don't act like one. Althougt at the age of 13 her parent's should take alot of the blame for not keeping a closer eye on wat there 13 year old daughter do's.
1. i understand what you mean, but still. people should not have to be called names, even if they are engaging in behavior that we don't like. i don't approve of premarital sex, but i would never call this girl or any other girl a "slut".
2. a kid felt so depressed and lonely that she consciously made the decision to end her own life. think about it like that and you may find it a lot easier to feel sorry for her.
3. parents who do try to keep a closer eye are often told by society that they are "suffocating" their kids, and to "cut the umbilical cord". it can be hard to know when to back off and when to regulate as a parent.
4. think about it like if it was your sister or mother or daughter, or someone you loved. i doubt you would find it hard to feel sympathy.
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Belgium8305 Posts
closing this thread because, although it is a tragic case, there is no real discussion to be had here (and it seems to bring out the worst in some people)
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EPT
