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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP. |
On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense?
No.
(3) A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
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On March 23 2012 10:57 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? Did they really try to kidnap you or did they just follow you for a bit and ask what you were up to, while you invented an elaborate fantasy scenario to excuse why you attacked them?
ya, you're a troll.
please stop. he was OBVIOUSLY making a hypothetical situation...
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On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense?
all you have to do is have a reasonable suspicion of being in danger to defend yourself, regardless if you are the aggressor.
I could walk up to zimmerman right now, push him and yell at him, and if he begins to threaten my life, i can kill him and be in the clear.
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On March 23 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? all you have to do is have a reasonable suspicion of being in danger to defend yourself, regardless if you are the aggressor. I could walk up to zimmerman right now, push him and yell at him, and if he begins to threaten my life, i can kill him and be in the clear.
and he could kill you the second you walked up to him in a threatening manner and be in the clear as well
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On March 23 2012 10:57 Zaqwe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? Did they really try to kidnap you or did they just follow you for a bit and ask what you were up to, while you invented an elaborate fantasy scenario to excuse why you attacked them?
I wasn't talking about the story in the news, so I am not really sure how you are connecting it to that. Also, wouldn't your attempt to connect it fail as I don't think the boy invented an elaborate fantasy scenario, as he was killed, and unable to tell any story to anyone.
You really seem like a troll, which violates the rules of this forum.
"Trolls will be burned, decapitated and banned." - TL 10 Commandments.
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On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense?
i dont believe self defense applies when you are committing a felony. let me check though.
edit: nope. cant be during commission of a felony. this is non-deadly force. but you can pretty much assume it wouldnt be more lenient for deadly force.
http://www.law.fsu.edu/library/flsupct/sc06-2436/op-sc06-2436.pdf
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I think too many people are getting absorbed with this one incident and completely missing the bigger picture of just how fucked up and poorly written this law is and should be campaigning to get it reformed or removed rather than jumping at assumptions and crying for a potentially innocent man's life.
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On March 23 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? all you have to do is have a reasonable suspicion of being in danger to defend yourself, regardless if you are the aggressor. I could walk up to zimmerman right now, push him and yell at him, and if he begins to threaten my life, i can kill him and be in the clear.
And you failed to read the post right above yours where it said in bold face about not being engaged in unlawful activity. By committing battery, you would be engaged in unlawful activity and not covered by SYG. However, you have been posting in this thread, so it's completely understandable that you haven't read a fucking thing informative in it.
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On March 23 2012 11:03 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? i dont believe self defense applies when you are committing a felony. let me check though.
Any crimes, not just felonies, but yes. As I quoted at the top of the page you must not be engaged in an unlawful activity for SYG laws to apply.
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On March 23 2012 11:05 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? all you have to do is have a reasonable suspicion of being in danger to defend yourself, regardless if you are the aggressor. I could walk up to zimmerman right now, push him and yell at him, and if he begins to threaten my life, i can kill him and be in the clear. And you failed to read the post right above yours where it said in bold face about not being engaged in unlawful activity. By committing battery, you would be engaged in unlawful activity and not covered by SYG. However, you have been posting in this thread, so it's completely understandable that you haven't read a fucking thing informative in it.
pushing and yelling isn't battery, or a LOT of football (american and european) around the world are guilty. If i meet him on the street i'm well within my right to push him if i feel like he might be threatening (he killed a man, thats threatening to me). So yeah i could find a legally justifiable way to head to sanford and kill him.
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On March 23 2012 11:04 NotSorry wrote:
I think too many people are getting absorbed with this one incident and completely missing the bigger picture of just how fucked up and poorly written this law is and should be campaigning to get it reformed or removed rather than jumping at assumptions and crying for a potentially innocent man's life.
i actually 100% agree with this. the law needs to obviously be changed or removed to prevent stuff like this from happening in the future.
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On March 23 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? all you have to do is have a reasonable suspicion of being in danger to defend yourself, regardless if you are the aggressor. I could walk up to zimmerman right now, push him and yell at him, and if he begins to threaten my life, i can kill him and be in the clear.
You would lose your right to self defense when you pushed him. That is assault.
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On March 23 2012 11:05 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 11:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? i dont believe self defense applies when you are committing a felony. let me check though. Any crimes, not just felonies, but yes. As I quoted at the top of the page you must not be engaged in an unlawful activity for SYG laws to apply.
the rule says felony, but this may not be the most updated rule.
here are the florida jury instructions. you can word search for self defense.
http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/jury_instructions/chapters/entireversion/onlinejurryinstructions.pdf
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On March 23 2012 11:06 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 11:05 Kaitlin wrote:On March 23 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? all you have to do is have a reasonable suspicion of being in danger to defend yourself, regardless if you are the aggressor. I could walk up to zimmerman right now, push him and yell at him, and if he begins to threaten my life, i can kill him and be in the clear. And you failed to read the post right above yours where it said in bold face about not being engaged in unlawful activity. By committing battery, you would be engaged in unlawful activity and not covered by SYG. However, you have been posting in this thread, so it's completely understandable that you haven't read a fucking thing informative in it. pushing and yelling isn't battery, or a LOT of football (american and european) around the world are guilty. If i meet him on the street i'm well within my right to push him if i feel like he might be threatening (he killed a man, thats threatening to me). So yeah i could find a legally justifiable way to head to sanford and kill him.
The world isn't a game of football...
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On March 23 2012 11:08 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 11:05 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 23 2012 11:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? i dont believe self defense applies when you are committing a felony. let me check though. Any crimes, not just felonies, but yes. As I quoted at the top of the page you must not be engaged in an unlawful activity for SYG laws to apply. the rule says felony, but this may not be the most updated rule.
The rule at the top of the page I quoted which only says "unlawful activity" I pulled from here. Seems up to date.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
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On March 23 2012 11:11 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 11:08 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 11:05 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 23 2012 11:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? i dont believe self defense applies when you are committing a felony. let me check though. Any crimes, not just felonies, but yes. As I quoted at the top of the page you must not be engaged in an unlawful activity for SYG laws to apply. the rule says felony, but this may not be the most updated rule. The rule at the top of the page I quoted which only says "unlawful activity" I pulled from here. Seems up to date. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
that is referring to self defense in the home, which is a different standard. (this is a little confusing actually, because it refers to another place.) regardless, i found the updated jury instructions on the Florida Supreme Court website, which say:
However, the use of deadly force is not justifiable if you find:
1. (Defendant) was attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of (applicable forcible felony);
i figured it out. you cant rely on the "no duty to retreat" if you were engaging in an unlawful activity.
If the defendant [was not engaged in an unlawful activity and] was attacked in any place where [he] [she] had a right to be, [he] [she] had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand [his] [her] ground and meet force with force, including deadly force, if [he] [she] reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to [himself] [herself] [another] or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
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Oh.. you gotta love america
User was warned for this post
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On March 23 2012 11:14 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 11:11 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 23 2012 11:08 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 11:05 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 23 2012 11:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? i dont believe self defense applies when you are committing a felony. let me check though. Any crimes, not just felonies, but yes. As I quoted at the top of the page you must not be engaged in an unlawful activity for SYG laws to apply. the rule says felony, but this may not be the most updated rule. The rule at the top of the page I quoted which only says "unlawful activity" I pulled from here. Seems up to date. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html that is referring to self defense in the home, which is a different standard. (this is a little confusing actually, because it refers to another place.) regardless, i found the updated jury instructions on the Florida Supreme Court website, which say: However, the use of deadly force is not justifiable if you find: 1. (Defendant) was attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of (applicable forcible felony);
The stand your ground laws are an expansion of the Castle Doctrine, which covers defense of the home.
Florida Statute 776.013(3) is the SYG law there.
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On March 23 2012 11:21 Fyrewolf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 11:14 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 11:11 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 23 2012 11:08 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 11:05 Fyrewolf wrote:On March 23 2012 11:03 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 23 2012 10:54 Saryph wrote:
Just a quick question since I am not that sure about the SYG law. If someone tries to kidnap you, and you resist the kidnap attempt through the use of physical force, does that give the kidnapper the right to shoot and kill you as self defense? i dont believe self defense applies when you are committing a felony. let me check though. Any crimes, not just felonies, but yes. As I quoted at the top of the page you must not be engaged in an unlawful activity for SYG laws to apply. the rule says felony, but this may not be the most updated rule. The rule at the top of the page I quoted which only says "unlawful activity" I pulled from here. Seems up to date. http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html that is referring to self defense in the home, which is a different standard. (this is a little confusing actually, because it refers to another place.) regardless, i found the updated jury instructions on the Florida Supreme Court website, which say: However, the use of deadly force is not justifiable if you find: 1. (Defendant) was attempting to commit, committing, or escaping after the commission of (applicable forcible felony); The stand your ground laws are an expansion of the Castle Doctrine, which covers defense of the home. I'm pretty sure I quoted the SYG law there.
yeah, i just figured it out (i think) and edited my post. if you are engaged in an unlawful activity you cant rely on the "no duty to retreat," but can generally rely on self defense principles. if you are engaged in a felony, you cant rely on self defense at all.
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The law is good until idiots like Zimmerman ruin it for people who use it to defend themselves reasonably
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EPT
