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On March 15 2012 04:47 Klonere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:40 dAPhREAk wrote:
i just realized i forgot to mention my biggest criticism of LoL. a game should not allow you to benefit from killing your own dudes. i've never understood that about any of the DOTA, LOL, HON games. You can't deny creeps in LoL and its one of the many things that make it a lot more noob friendly than DotA2 or HoN. Ironic that you bring that particular point up with regards to LoL.
im not aware of the exact terminology, but you are saying you dont get experience from killing your own dudes in LoL? I guess that is an issue I have with the other games then and not LoL. i dont know why it would make the game more "expert" to allow players to kill their own units to get experience, but i can see why it would make more sense if you can kill your own units to prevent the other team from getting experience. like i said, i have only watched some and not actually played.
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Broodwar is better.
JK... JK...
LoL is casual, so what? I played 5 years DotA in a league and I miss the good ol' times. LoL gives everyone a decent chance to have success if they want it. Why not? If anyone wants to play MW3 I won't shit on them but hell... I don't need to respect them either. LoL progamers... WoW progamers... MW progamers... Age of Casual, I'm going to be pro in Dwarf Fortress. See you bitches.
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I don't really care about LoL's success. However if LoL pros start acting like they are the most skilled players in the universe I will have problems.
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On March 15 2012 04:11 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 03:58 .ImpacT. wrote:
If anything, maybe this will just stop some of the squabbling going on and people will realize that LoL success does not mean Sc2 failure. It actually means Sc2 GROWTH for the most part. Even if it doesn't mean growth and would hurth the SC2 scene, what is there to do about it? Flaming people on the internet isn't going to reshape the e-sports world. It's unlikely to even change anyone's mind. It's a shame the thread in general got so off track. There's a legitimate discussion to be had here about the evolution of esports, and what that means for the future. All this SC2 vs LoL stuff is rediculous.
I 100% agree with you. People will continue to watch SC2/LOL regardless of the BM that goes on. It is the equivalent of some local basketball game at the park, where each team starts spewing bullshit at each other. No one will walk by and say, "Got damn dingers, I wont be watching the NBA anymore."
Now is this bad language and bm on a casters part acceptable in per-say at a match at IPL 4? It depends. I'm sure the majority of parents wouldn't let their kids(6-12ish) watch the tournament if the casters vocabulary included swear words. Which raises the question, who is the target audience of SC2? I'm still not sure at this point. You have people on SOTG encouraging underage drinking, spewing swear words, etc, but these same people are telling everyone to stop the negative image and to help support "eSports".
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On March 15 2012 04:44 HaXXspetten wrote:
LoL just isn't serious enough for an e-sport imo
As I said previously, LoL events get more viewers than sc2, which I feel is the source of many people's hate.
Its like if someone was talking about how great Franzia is, a wine connoisseur would probably get mad.
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On March 15 2012 04:55 SirPsychoMantis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:44 HaXXspetten wrote:
LoL just isn't serious enough for an e-sport imo As I said previously, LoL events get more viewers than sc2, which I feel is the source of many people's hate.
Has anyone ever said they dislike LoL because it gets more viewers?
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I don't have a grudge against MOBA games as I played them (mainly Dota, only looked into LoL because some buddies played it) a lot, but from a spectator point of view I think both LoL and Dota are pretty bad compared to BW and SC2. For me all the MOBA games are practically like WoW PvP with a bit better balance. They are nice and easy to play, they have depth (aka there is a learning curve), there is strategy involved, its mainly about positioning, timing and a lot about teamplay, but in the end its a pretty bad experience for the viewer because you never get to see even half of the action and/or skill involved, because there are 10 individual players who all do their things, especially during the laning phase.
I know a lot of people like to watch LoL/Dota and thats nice. I personally don't enjoy it that much.
Also the SC2 community is just the best. 
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On March 15 2012 04:56 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:55 SirPsychoMantis wrote:On March 15 2012 04:44 HaXXspetten wrote:
LoL just isn't serious enough for an e-sport imo As I said previously, LoL events get more viewers than sc2, which I feel is the source of many people's hate. Has anyone ever said they dislike LoL because it gets more viewers?
No, but people are stating it's not an eSport because it's too "casual". It's getting a shit ton more viewers in events than SC2, yet people don't consider it an eSport because of some arbitrary definition they just randomly came up with.
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The question which game is the best related to the term eSport... isd still answered with BW in my opinion. There is not one single game which can be compared to BW's perfection. There is no other game which rewards your skill like BW.
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On March 15 2012 04:52 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:47 Klonere wrote:On March 15 2012 04:40 dAPhREAk wrote:
i just realized i forgot to mention my biggest criticism of LoL. a game should not allow you to benefit from killing your own dudes. i've never understood that about any of the DOTA, LOL, HON games. You can't deny creeps in LoL and its one of the many things that make it a lot more noob friendly than DotA2 or HoN. Ironic that you bring that particular point up with regards to LoL. im not aware of the exact terminology, but you are saying you dont get experience from killing your own dudes in LoL? I guess that is an issue I have with the other games then and not LoL. i dont know why it would make the game more "expert" to allow players to kill their own units to get experience, but i can see why it would make more sense if you can kill your own units to prevent the other team from getting experience. like i said, i have only watched some and not actually played.
Denying is the word people use for that
And it denies some gold/exp from the opponents for killing your own unit (which LoL doesn't have) to control the lane better (so you get more exp/gold than your opponent whoever gets the last hits right)
As for SC2 vs LoL,
I'll definitely support SC2 more than LoL honestly
(Note: I was a HoN player until S2 started screwing around... or rather I started in beta and then right when SC2 came out I went to that, and SC2 started screwing around)
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On March 15 2012 04:47 SirPsychoMantis wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:34 Tsuki.eu wrote:
Dont compare SC2 with LoL please, altough you can call them both e-sports, LoL is extremly casual compared to SC2. They serve a diferent crowd. Perhaps this is a bad example but. LoL is like playing beach football with your palls, its super fun (even to watch). Sc2 is more like being part of your college football team, you do it for fun but also because you love the competitionm and everything envolved. Im happy both e-sports are sucessfull, its all part of the same big family, there is no need to argue who is the most loved son.
The problem with this argument is that LoL pulls more viewers than sc2 at a competitive eSports level.
That is not a problem imo.
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Want nothing to do with MOBA games but their everywhere! So annoying.
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On March 15 2012 04:47 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:43 TheToast wrote:On March 15 2012 04:40 dAPhREAk wrote:
i just realized i forgot to mention my biggest criticism of LoL. a game should not allow you to benefit from killing your own dudes. i've never understood that about any of the DOTA, LOL, HON games. So this means you're against the MULE right?  if you are referring to mule drops on tanks, then no. sacrificing is not the same as killing. i am all for sacrificing my men to gain an advantage. i am a dick leader like that. ;-)
Actually I was referring to late game situations where Terran can rely entirely on Mules for mining and suiciding SCVs can grant a supply advantage.
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I have to agree with the op, I play both and watch both. I still prefer starcraft 2 though, just because of this doesnt mean i hate lol. I do have to agree with the op when he says that lol could learn from the sc community and become more professional.
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On March 15 2012 04:59 Orracle wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:56 Talin wrote:On March 15 2012 04:55 SirPsychoMantis wrote:On March 15 2012 04:44 HaXXspetten wrote:
LoL just isn't serious enough for an e-sport imo As I said previously, LoL events get more viewers than sc2, which I feel is the source of many people's hate. Has anyone ever said they dislike LoL because it gets more viewers? No, but people are stating it's not an eSport because it's too "casual". It's getting a shit ton more viewers in events than SC2, yet people don't consider it an eSport because of some arbitrary definition they just randomly came up with.
So let me get it straight, there are dozens of threads where hundreds of people explain in detail what their definitions and standards are, yet you choose to disregard all of that and make up your own reason as to why people don't like it?
How exactly do you intend to have a conversation on the topic if you choose to ignore what is being said?
Not everything that gets views is a sport - it does actually have to fulfill some of those "random arbitrary definitions" as you call them.
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On March 15 2012 05:01 TheToast wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:47 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 15 2012 04:43 TheToast wrote:On March 15 2012 04:40 dAPhREAk wrote:
i just realized i forgot to mention my biggest criticism of LoL. a game should not allow you to benefit from killing your own dudes. i've never understood that about any of the DOTA, LOL, HON games. So this means you're against the MULE right? if you are referring to mule drops on tanks, then no. sacrificing is not the same as killing. i am all for sacrificing my men to gain an advantage. i am a dick leader like that. ;-) Actually I was referring to late game situations where Terran can rely entirely on Mules for mining and suiciding SCVs can grant a supply advantage.
yeah, thats just another way i can be a dick leader. ;-) but i dont have a problem with people suiciding their troops for an advantage, but i would have a problem if you can kill your scvs and get minerals.
i am learning that this apparently has nothing to do with LoL though; its just related to DOTA/HoN apparently.
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justin bieber is the greatest esport that is all
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On March 15 2012 05:02 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:59 Orracle wrote:On March 15 2012 04:56 Talin wrote:On March 15 2012 04:55 SirPsychoMantis wrote:On March 15 2012 04:44 HaXXspetten wrote:
LoL just isn't serious enough for an e-sport imo As I said previously, LoL events get more viewers than sc2, which I feel is the source of many people's hate. Has anyone ever said they dislike LoL because it gets more viewers? No, but people are stating it's not an eSport because it's too "casual". It's getting a shit ton more viewers in events than SC2, yet people don't consider it an eSport because of some arbitrary definition they just randomly came up with. So let me get it straight, there are dozens of threads where hundreds of people explain in detail what their definitions and standards are, yet you choose to disregard all of that and make up your own reason as to why people don't like it? How exactly do you intend to have a conversation on the topic if you choose to ignore what is being said? Not everything that gets views is a sport - it does actually have to fulfill some of those "random arbitrary definitions" as you call them.
That's the thing, there's hundreds of threads with different definitions. Each person has their own arbitrary definition of "eSports". LOL isn't competitive? Why? Cause it's focused on team play? What about FPS games? I don't know how you can not consider a game an eSport when it's pulling in more viewers than essentially every game out there(beyond BW).
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sc players probably think that every game is casual instead of sc wich is so wrong
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On March 15 2012 05:02 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 15 2012 04:59 Orracle wrote:On March 15 2012 04:56 Talin wrote:On March 15 2012 04:55 SirPsychoMantis wrote:On March 15 2012 04:44 HaXXspetten wrote:
LoL just isn't serious enough for an e-sport imo As I said previously, LoL events get more viewers than sc2, which I feel is the source of many people's hate. Has anyone ever said they dislike LoL because it gets more viewers? No, but people are stating it's not an eSport because it's too "casual". It's getting a shit ton more viewers in events than SC2, yet people don't consider it an eSport because of some arbitrary definition they just randomly came up with. So let me get it straight, there are dozens of threads where hundreds of people explain in detail what their definitions and standards are, yet you choose to disregard all of that and make up your own reason as to why people don't like it? How exactly do you intend to have a conversation on the topic if you choose to ignore what is being said? Not everything that gets views is a sport - it does actually have to fulfill some of those "random arbitrary definitions" as you call them.
You did no better at clearly defining these "random arbitrary definitions" are, and instead just chose to rail against one person's interpretation.
Interpretations are open. For me, E-Sports refers more simply to the structure of the game and the presence of a professional scene.
Competitive nature, streams and casters, evolving metagame, and the ability for professionals to exist are how I define E-Sports.
It's the same as I would define normal sports in terms of legitimacy.
So for example: WoW Arena, MOBAs, FPSs, and RTS naturally fall under this category if they meet the requirements. WoW PvE does not.
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EPT
