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On February 23 2012 23:40 chestnutcc wrote:
Basically what other people have said in the thread:
1. PvR when R turns out to be zerg is a bad spot for P. You can't FFE unless you send out a really early scout (pre pylon). If you gate expand, it has to be 3 gate because they will most likely try cheesing you. 10 pools are a nightmare with gate expands. If they don't cheese you they go hatch first and power up while you are still waiting for obs/phoenix/hallucination to confirm what they are doing because random players, are well, random.
2. Forces pylon scout at least, bad for other builds.
3. PvP is arbitrary enough without random players doing their thing.
4. PvT is unpredictable enough without random players doing their thing
There is a definite difference between offracing and playing random and imo offracers understand their offrace a lot better than random players understand that particular race.
I disagree with this entirely. I've spawned P in RvR while my opponent has spawned Z. There is nothing wrong with 3GE, 2GE or even 1GE and nothing wrong with pylon scouting either. If he 10 pools against any of those builds you should be safe at home, and he'll have already taken a huge economic hit. Pvp you're going to be pylon scouting anyways unless you want to lose. I think PvT is fairly NOT random. It's incredibly standard, with set timings and builds and should be as easy to play at out as PvR(T) as PvT.
I think most of this is just lazy people who don't wanna scout and just want the game wrapped up in a neat little package. I think the unpredictability of a vR matchup is exciting and will make you a better, more adaptable player. If you really don't want to play it out because apparently you're so far behind and you're going to lose anyway just leave. I don't when sc2 players got so spoiled.
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It's an unfair advantage. You can't play standard against random.
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because random is imba. it changes your build order.
you have to play safe, wall off. you can not forge expand. etc...
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toss vs random..... have to wall off ALL the time and if your zerg, toss cant FFE then if you toss we lost time walling off having to prepare for you being zerg... it gets stupid at times
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On February 23 2012 23:47 sPitcraZy wrote:
The way i see it random players are just good at cheesing with all three races they never really learn to play them.
Dunno in mid masters and higher its not uncommon to find macro random player, but its uncommon to find random player 
Maybe because im zerg, and zerg has it easy vs random.
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when i play toss I allways leave when a random pops up on some maps like taldarim it's just retarded........
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On February 23 2012 23:44 Wroshe wrote:Out of curiosity I would like to ask you all the following. Poll: Should the option of picking random be removed?Yes (43) 41% No (37) 36% No (I play Random) (23) 22% Yes (I play Random) (1) 1% 104 total votes Your vote: Should the option of picking random be removed? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Yes (I play Random)
(Vote): No (I play Random)
This makes me so sad,
well ok, i guess that most random players cheese a lot, that's something i never do. So i guess there's some basis for this hatred prejudice, but it's sad that it affects normal players like me, who just like to play all races.
Do we random players have a small advantage with our opponents not knowing what race we play? For sure.
Do we random players have a bigger disadvantage for not practicing one race fulltime? For sure.
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its lame to play against random. if you are trying to work on a strategy for each matchup and someone plays random then you can't practice your strat you just have to wing it and its annoying. they get an advantage because you have to scout faster, and they are always not as good players, they just do cheese and stupid strategies that abuse how hard it is to scout. personally i just go proxy 11 11 rax every time i play against random and it actually works like 90% of the time because they don't scout and they play super abusive like 14cc or 14 nexus :D
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I don't mind them playing the three races, it's just that most of them cheese
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because random players dont play either race well, and most of them just rely on allins which abuse the fact that the opponent doesnt know your race and can't start with an optimal build.
And as a zerg, whenever a random player gets zerg he's 90% of the time is doing 6 pool, so i 'd have to go for something like a 13 or 14 pool, which is ok vs P too i guess, but u're fucked big time if he's zerg and mind-games you and does hatch-gas-pool into speedling allin. And obviously u're way behind vs Terran
just met a random player, i started off with asking if he ever expoed, at liek 0:10, guess what he was 6 pooling with pulling all the drones
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maybe it's just because the players are so random?!
titter titter
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I'm about the same league as you and i get it a lot too, but just like if i main race'd as something else i'm sure i'd get the same things nontheless.
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because people don't want to learn to play against a 4th race, the opening against random is different for every race except zerg. So its an evil advantage you have.
If the bm really upsets you, use a dice to determine your race, because even if you announce it people will just bm. But be warned people are in a way better mind set if they don't see this random sign and play better.
Its funny how playing random can get me even higher up in masters, because my great weakness is macro and if the opponent sees random they suddenly play safe.
Started to dice so people will mess up less against me. Random just felt like a free win in every 3rd game. (and free wins are not a good training or fun). Its horrible that so many people try to avoid anything that needs extra training. That being said its fun to switch to random every once in a while. And show people that its not a good idea to wallin against random.
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On February 23 2012 23:54 ki11z0ne wrote:
toss vs random..... have to wall off ALL the time and if your zerg, toss cant FFE then if you toss we lost time walling off having to prepare for you being zerg... it gets stupid at times
You don't 100% need a wall-in vs Zerg that soon actually. You can create the wall-in with your 3rd Pylon and be fine. Versus a 6 pool you are completely OK if you just build Gateway near your Nexus powered by 2 Pylons. As such I don't really mind playing against Random. Generally I'd say they are worse than a player who specialized in a race in the longer game and (I guess therefore) they seem to cheese more often. So if you just play a very safe longer game you are fine vs Random in general I'd say
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Can't speak for everyone but personally believe Random gets BM " loving " is cause some try to do All-in's for that race they got ..... Funny thing is when I face random vs my protoss account , they all in about the same as the other players who actually choose their race ..... We just tend to remember the random ** maybe cause .... until we scout we are not sure what race they are .... so the first 1-3 minutes we are constantly thinking of what race they might be **
I play random on my other account , cause I like to play the other races and to break the monotony of playing one race all the time ..... I play macro or long games , cause I want to learn and get better at the other races ..... I still get BM when I win 15 min or greater game ..... people usually BM cause they actually performed poorly in that game and can't blame themselves
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On February 23 2012 23:54 Opec wrote:
It's an unfair advantage. You can't play standard against random.
But from the random player's perspective, you can't play standard as all three races at the same level, period. Non-random can focus on developing solid standard play for one race. Random, if they want to do that, are at a disadvantage because they can't focus on developing solid play for one race.
So yeah, they get the advantage "out the gate" in that their opponents need to be more cautious earlier on, but as the game goes on, the fact that it's a guy who practices all 3 races vs. a guy who focuses on perfecting one race becomes more important i would imagine
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On February 23 2012 23:56 coL.drewbie wrote:
its lame to play against random. if you are trying to work on a strategy for each matchup and someone plays random then you can't practice your strat you just have to wing it and its annoying. they get an advantage because you have to scout faster, and they are always not as good players, they just do cheese and stupid strategies that abuse how hard it is to scout. personally i just go proxy 11 11 rax every time i play against random and it actually works like 90% of the time because they don't scout and they play super abusive like 14cc or 14 nexus :D
Yea, I also use to cheese random players, because they normally try to delay scouting, so you wont know what race they are 
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Random players generally do not understand any match up as well as the people they ladder against who choose their race. Thus in order to reach that level they depend on the fact that their race is unknown until scouted, which is a huge advantage in the early game. This makes your opponent play very generically early (or take an extreme risk themselves), and allows you to abuse them to with a variety of cheeses, or play extremely greedy without your opponent being able to punish you. So when you play random, you're allowed to do things that you couldn't pull off if you picked your race.
Thus random players often depend not on their own skill to reach the level they achieve, but the advantage they get in the early game simply from playing random. Knowing this, if you play aggressive, you can expose random players for what most of them are: players with less skill than yourself.
So basically I just cheese random players, because they have a lot of holes in their game mechanically, and a well executed cheese almost always kills them, especially if they are trying to be greedy. Furthermore, since I can't practice my builds as usual, I have no desire to play a macro game against them as it won't be an accurate gauge of the viability of my build because I had to open generically.
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On February 23 2012 22:53 -Trippin- wrote:
Random should show your race upon startup.
I agree with this 100% I am a zerg player but will play random from time to time and this season I have been playing random most of the time. If I am random and spawn as zerg and my opponent is toss, its basically gg if I decide to 6 pool.. I don't think that is fair, but i LOVE seeing people rage about it.. when you are facing random you need to scout very early and plan for the worst.
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I guess the middle ground between removing random and keeping it would be the system declaring which race has been picked for the for all to see. That would even up the immediate advantage given to such players.
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EPT
