EPTWhy do people hate Random players ? - Page 6
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zomgE
498 Posts
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Wroshe
Netherlands1051 Posts
On February 23 2012 23:37 ThePianoDentist wrote: I personally think you underestimate gate expand builds. Most protoss' I know act like anything that is not ffe versus zerg is somehow auto-loss. and pylon scouting on the majority of maps means you can block a hatch first from zerg unless you're very unlucky. Blocking the hatch of a Random Zerg is fairly pointless though, the majority of them 6pool. :p I personally by the way allways 1Gate or even 3Gate expand in PvZ. | ||
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fire_brand
Canada1123 Posts
The bottom line is the majority of random players out there are just random cheesers who have no idea how to play the game. All they know how to do is 6 pool, cannon rush, 2 rax all in, 4 gate, VR cheese bullshit, and people have been conditioned to expect that when they see they're queued up against a random player. It's entirely understandable if that's their reasons for hating random. In the end the game is just that for me, a game, and I like to enjoy myself while playing. That's why I play random, I enjoy the challenge it gives me and the diversity of the matchups. Half of it is my competitive side showing through, but half of it is just me reveling in all the different aspects of the game. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On February 23 2012 23:30 Tobberoth wrote: Because Random is annoying as hell. You have different builds for different races, so you're forced to use a suboptimal build against a random opponent... really sucks to do a 14g/14p and find out you're playing a terran. Seriously, to all random players: Use a dice. If 1-2, play T, if 3-4 play P, if 5-6 play Z. That way, you get to play random race, yet you're not forcing your opponent to play badly. The only reason a random player would play random and not say their race, is because they are afraid of opponents being able to play the way they want. Pass. I like playing all three races (although I will occasionally race-pick when I'm tired of a particular matchup), but at the same time I recognize that this means I'm not as good as a normal low-Masters player in each of the 9 matchups. I'll take whatever advantage I can get to even the playing field (although I will usually tell them if they ask my race because that's awkward if I don't). Saying that all Random players who don't announce their race at the start are "afraid," is a silly argument. I just don't see the need to relinquish that one (albeit small) advantage because you feel inconvenienced. Deal with it. | ||
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chestnutcc
India429 Posts
1. PvR when R turns out to be zerg is a bad spot for P. You can't FFE unless you send out a really early scout (pre pylon). If you gate expand, it has to be 3 gate because they will most likely try cheesing you. 10 pools are a nightmare with gate expands. If they don't cheese you they go hatch first and power up while you are still waiting for obs/phoenix/hallucination to confirm what they are doing because random players, are well, random. 2. Forces pylon scout at least, bad for other builds. 3. PvP is arbitrary enough without random players doing their thing. 4. PvT is unpredictable enough without random players doing their thing There is a definite difference between offracing and playing random and imo offracers understand their offrace a lot better than random players understand that particular race. | ||
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chestnutcc
India429 Posts
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mcc
Czech Republic4646 Posts
On February 23 2012 22:53 Mr Showtime wrote: 95% of people who play random will cheese you. Rather than learning how to actually play the game, they try to take advantage of the surprise factor combined with a cheese strategy that take 10 minutes to learn to execute. There are some good random players, but a large majority are no skill cheesers. Actually according to my experience randoms are as likely to cheese as non-randoms. The only difference is you do not know what cheese to expect as you do not know the race. On February 23 2012 23:20 Gosi wrote: Most random players cheese or play random to play some gimmicky strat and take advantage of that they are infact random. But if you are a player that roll random because you do infact enjoy playing all races or you just can't settle with one race - please tell your opponent what race you spawned instead of being the ^ douche. Or just pick a race between each matches and rotate them. I started as terran on release, because terran was safe, but I hated how it makes me turtle on 1-2 base with tanks and turrets, so to force myself to learn more dynamic play I started to play protoss, later I added zerg and then decided to have most fun and play random. I do not do it to gain advantage so I always declare my race immediately at the start of the game. Problem is that 80+% of opponents do not believe me and are actually extremely surprised when they found out that I did not lie. Typical conversation at the start of the game is :' Me playting vs Terran - Me: glhf , I'm Protoss. Him: u2, Im Zerg Me: lol ..... he scouts Him: Wow you did not lie ... So it seems the only solution and I definitely support it for random to be a fun choice, but on loading screen your race would already be identified. As for picking a race before the match. That would require some random generator and that is a lot of hassle I just want to be surprised  As for all-ins. Contrary to what I thought earlier, higher you get in the ladder terran becomes harder and harder. In the end for now, due to me playing like 2-5 games a week, I decided to give up on TvP and to some degree on TvZ. In TvP I go 1-1-1 and have like 90% winrate and easily kill protosses from platinum and even diamond (I am currently high gold). 1-1-1 reasonably well executed on that level is just really OP shit As for TvZ my multitasking is just not good enough to match well executed mass muta, while doing all the other necessary crap, so lately I quite often go 1-base hellion maraduder+stim all-in. Works quite nicely especially considering how many zergs go roach pressure , but unlike TvP I still mix in macro games.In all other matchups I am extremely long game focused and NEVER all-in first and definitely NEVER cheese. I think a lot of people here have perception bias as I know that except me more random players play macro games. | ||
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Hanako
United Kingdom57 Posts
Also, at least at a low-mid Masters level, most of the random players I play, maybe around 60-70% usually resort to some stupid one-base build they've learnt for that race, which is always fun. (Pulling this figure out my ass, oh well =P) | ||
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XiGua
Sweden3085 Posts
Every player has different build orders for different matchups. Random players force the opponent to scout them before any build order has been established. If for example I face a random who gets to play as a Terran and I am a Protoss then it's very uncharacteristic to wall-off. The same goes for mirror-matchups. It's just a pain in the ass to play against random especially when the common stereotype is that random players cheese. | ||
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-_-Quails
Australia796 Posts
I play random to earn portraits, and I am quite happy to do that by playing long games. It also saves me the trouble of deciding which race I am best suited to overall - I have so much to learn still that I don't see how I could make that decision at present. After 3000 wins at each race, I hope to have a better idea. *Announcing my race and being believed means that I have to deal with fewer cannon rushes. It just wasn't fun, even if those games were freewins. | ||
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ZasZ.
United States2911 Posts
On February 23 2012 23:42 chestnutcc wrote: PS: A major reason random players can never be as good at all the races as someone of the same league is at their race is also because they never play against the standard builds for those matchups. For example, virtually no random zerg will ever play against a FFE. This is the only viable point I've seen so far. It's true that as a Random player I almost never face FFE in ZvP, which is unfortunate, unless I'm in practice games and then I race-pick. | ||
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Wroshe
Netherlands1051 Posts
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Rybaia
Italy213 Posts
One night I qued up 3 times vs the same random player. 1 bane burst, 1 7rr and a 111 all in with cloack banshee. Even if I won 3-0 I felt super disgusted by the fact that he never expanded once during "series" we had. He also complained about some random things and called me bad cuz every game I scouted 3 time his front/main sometimes even with 2 probes if the 1st died. | ||
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sPitcraZy
United States24 Posts
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UmiNotsuki
United States633 Posts
On February 23 2012 23:32 bouhko wrote: I really want some data on this unfair advantage thing. The number of pros playing random is very close to 0 and yet most tournaments don't forbid it. Don't you think that if random would give an unfair advantage, pro would play random ? Especially in korea where they don't have the stupid "cheese is lame" mentality ? Just stop it with the unfair advantage thing until we've seen some random player win some high level tournament. Look, you don't need data for the point to be obviously true. It's obviously true that most players have builds that deviate from each other depending on their opponent's race before they might want to scout. That makes it obvious that they either have to scout earlier than they would like to (which is sub-optimal) or just pick a build that's either acceptable against all three races (but not particularly good against one, which is bad because our opponent is only playing one race) or pick one that is good against a specific race and hope their opponent spawned as that race. That makes it obvious that it's unlikely that a non-random player will go into a game as strongly as they would if they were against the same race, but knew that before hand. There's an innate advantage to decision making that knowing your opponent's options can bring. Not to mention how obvious it is that it's almost impossible to effectively cheese a random player because there are effectively no cheeses that work against all three races. This removes the fear of cheese from a random player and allows them to be greedier than normal, or even to cheese themselves without their opponent necessarily knowing what they're going to do beforehand. It is all pretty obvious... The reason pros don't play random is because depth beats breadth, but for the more casual ladder player far too many games can be won by a random player cheesing. | ||
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TigerKarl
1757 Posts
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CrtBalorda
Slovenia704 Posts
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Pusekatten
Norway234 Posts
I usually get one off these three answers: 1. No / not telling me. (65%) 2. Tells me a race, but not the one they got. (30%) 3. Tells me what race they really are (5%) In my eyes 95% of random players are being BM. Also when you are up vs a random player who doesn't tell you what race they are playing, what opening are you supposed to do? I played Zerg but switched to Terran recently. I can do a 1rax expo vs X, but for Zerg and Protoss I feel like its gonna be a coin flip or a really bad opening. | ||
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Atokad
United States204 Posts
Seeing as those are my disadvantages, to your disadvantage of not knowing for 2 minutes before you scout me what my race is, I'd be pretty happy to be paired up with another random on the ladder. (But so much can happen in those two minutes, i could make a FFE instead of a gate, wah wah wah) I don't care. That is part of my strategy of a random player to throw you off of your game, get you out of your comfort zone and make you make mistakes. Is it because I'm a worse player? Probably. But I'm not the only random player out there, there is a purpose for it, and I'm exploiting that reason to the best of my ability as an average diamond random player. | ||
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exeprime
United Kingdom643 Posts
Of course, that doesn't apply to the randoms who just proxy / 6-pool / whatever, which is most randoms. Those games are kinda meh and it does force a "find-the-cheese" kinda attitude while playing vR. I don't see that as a problem though, if they cheese you should be able to stop it, if they don't your one-race macro should let you catch up to theirs. Random players who play proper games however, I have nothing but respect for them. It forces you to think, and too few players these days bother with that step. | ||
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