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On January 21 2012 23:07 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 23:04 zalz wrote:On January 21 2012 23:01 SilentchiLL wrote:On January 21 2012 22:56 zalz wrote:
Some people are seriously trying to argue that the US economy is around the level of a 3rd world country :')
I worry for the sanity of the people on my continent.
I understand the need to bash America. It's been hard having to deal with the fact that we aren't the center of the world anymore.
But atleast keep your bashing grounded in some sense of reality. You might want to atleast once in your life take a plane to the USA, step of it, and realize that in fact there is a small difference between Zimbabwe and the USA. pretty sure that everybody here said that it's not on the level of them (not is a very important word here) On January 21 2012 22:52 white_horse wrote:On January 21 2012 22:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On January 21 2012 22:43 white_horse wrote:On January 21 2012 22:31 KalWarkov wrote:
The difference is, that Europe has a larger varity of culture.
3000 years of history formed so many unique things, while America has 300 years of history, thats what America lacks a bit.
I guess what makes me speechless when europeans bash america for its relative lack of culture is the way they phrase it, as if it's our fault for not developing a culture as good as the one they have. We just happened to not have been around as long as they have. Whats so wrong about that? More importantly, how is it fair to even compare the culture of europe and the US? US is a giant amalgation of many different cultures. European countries like germany, france, belgium, etc are homogeonous groups of people who each share their own common set of values and characteristics (i.e culture). So how is it americans' and their ancestors' faults for not having the kind of "culture" that europeans are accustomed to? People enjoy hating. That hating just happens to be directed at the US. Gemany and Italy weren't exactly one homogeonous country for as far back as we can remember but I agree with that. Out of curiosity, how big of an impact do Native Americans have on the, "culture," of the current USA? Not very much. Maybe except as mascots for certain baseball teams lol. Can we stay out of the subject of native americans? It's a source of another popular line of america-bashing. Slowly you just seem paranoid, not everybody hates americans, in fact I'd say that most here don't. Americans are on average richer then Germans. I don't understand why this fact makes you so angry. They are richer then Dutch people aswell. I seem to still be sane. Pretty sure that the average income of a US American is lower than the one of a German, and they have way bigger debts with a lower probability to pay them back aswell. Atleast that would only make sense, since lower jobless number, a high export/import difference in germany, opposed to the export/import deficit in america, it's lower credit rating(triple A anyone?) and the higher debts.
#1 USA
#2 Switzerland
#3 Germany
The difference between your average Hans and your average Joe is about 5k a year.
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On January 21 2012 23:21 eccokk wrote:
america is a young country and therefore lacks history, and for most history is culture.
who is a famous american writer? hemmingway? poe ? twain?
not too bad but compared to the likes of schiller, goethe, shakespeare, tolstoy, dostoevsky ot the thousands of much more famous and impressive european writers it is just a insult to compare them.
same goes for musicans and artist in general, springstin vs beethoven? madonna vs bach? da vinci vs gates? van gogh vs warhole?
again not your fault your country is too young to have a rich and impressive cultural background like europe, but its just silly to say it aint there.
reading here that stuff like baseball or coca cola is supossed to be your argument for having a strong culture, well lets just say it does not help to debunk the stereotypes.
You're right that America has a smaller culture because of a lack of history, but it has one. So America has a culture. "America has no culture" is just wrong, it's just not as developed as European cultures yet.
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In my opinion the expression amercans have no culture might result because either of two major points:
- expression said by dumb people who are just arguing without a good reason.
- or it is a wrong chosen expression. It could be more meant that, in comparison to other countrys, americans have got no (better a short) culture (better history) compared to other countrys that 'exist' since hundreds of years.
I would say americans have a short history and they definetely have culture no question. Would even say they have a really unique culture.
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On January 21 2012 23:16 False_Peace wrote:Oh and one more post. One thing that really irritates me is when people bash the US about its debt. Yes it is true that the USA has the largest debt in the world. However this is not really the best measure to consider. OF course since the USA has the largest economy it would seem natural that it would also have the largest debt. So.... A better measure to consider is debt compared to % of GDP. If we look at this figure then the following nations are in much bigger shit than the US: Japan, Italy, Greece, Singapore, Belgium, Canada, Germany, France, Egypt, UK and the Netherlands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_debt
But another aspect of that is who holds the debt?
Most countries try to keep their debts internally held.
For a long time most of the U.S. debt was internally held. Treasury bonds, war bonds, etc.
Lately we've been borrowing internationally, and that's what worries people, myself included. It's the fact that we somehow now owe China a trillion dollars -- plus accruing interest. UK has a lot of debt, but they keep it internal. It's easier knowing you owe your citizens money, as opposed to owing money to your most direct competitor.
http://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/data-chart-center/tic/Documents/mfh.txt
As for the topic,
It's funny because culture and entertainment is actually our most consistent export.
The world has been watching our movies and copying our music for decades. Jazz and Blues are great, and while I hate Rap and all of its spinoffs, the world sure seems to feel otherwise.
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On January 21 2012 23:22 JesusOurSaviour wrote:The only negative things which I have to say about American culture are the following: Too much obesity Too much whinging and whining (esp from the men? Man up???????) Too much greed and materialism Too much "God's gift to the world" complex. Apart from the above, America actually has a very rich culture. The people there are for the most part genuine and warm. 
I heard everyone in Australia works for free, because they're not greedy and they don't value material things. And they never complain. Ever. You could throw a brick at an Australian and he would compliment how good you look, AND give you his house, while he explains how his bricks aren't as good as your bricks, because he is very modest.
But hey, you got me on the obesity thing.
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Its a pretty common misconception that a lot of countries in the western world dont have any culture. There's also a lot of hate coming from people in the western world towards their own culture, aswell as the constant talk of that other cultures are "richer" etc. I don't really understad where its coming from or if its ever going to go away.
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For the record, if you ever want to know what a materialistic society actually looks like, go visit some countries in east-asia.
Overtly flaunting your money in a western country is actually considered to be in very poor taste.
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On January 21 2012 23:22 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 23:19 Euronyme wrote:On January 21 2012 23:16 False_Peace wrote:Oh and one more post. One thing that really irritates me is when people bash the US about its debt. Yes it is true that the USA has the largest debt in the world. However this is not really the best measure to consider. OF course since the USA has the largest economy it would seem natural that it would also have the largest debt. So.... A better measure to consider is debt compared to % of GDP. If we look at this figure then the following nations are in much bigger shit than the US: Japan, Italy, Greece, Singapore, Belgium, Canada, Germany, France, Egypt, UK and the Netherlands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_debt That is clearly not updated. The US debt is over 100% of GDP at this point. I think it went over the 100% line in late 2010 or so. That is the 2010 statistics according to the 2011 CIA World Factbook. Including late 2010.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/story/2012-01-08/debt-equals-economy/52460208/1
Similar articles are published on most news sites.
I was wrong in the 2010 thing though. I must've read an article that it was getting close or something. Either way it's now over 100% of GPD.
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Maybe... Maybe they mean to say that mainstream American culture seems soulless and brutal. I think America's pop scene is pretty soulless. Kind of uncreative. Filled with remakes and redundancies and the music seems to have only a few chord progressions going for it. I also think mainstream American culture is a sledge hammer. Obtuse and slow to swing in new directions. But that's mainstream. There are tons of non mainstream things that are wonderful in America. It's my hope that people in America look at pop and roll their eyes, but I have a feeling some people are actually engrossed in the lives of however many Jersey dwelling idiots, a woman who seems to steal songs and is making up for a massive lack of attention in high school, and whatever other pop thing is iconic at the time but otherwise absolutely forgettable. Ala Backstreet Boys, N*Sync, New Kids on the Block (and other stuff that, you know, ISN'T a boy band).
Perhaps that's the reason for the insult? We don't have any cultural icons that last for more than a few internet minutes before the next big thing/scandal/WTF moment/holy amazing thing hits the airwaves. American culture isn't so much iconic as it is several flashes in the pan, so to speak. And hipsters have made it too ironic to like old good things anymore. Hipsters -_-
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On January 21 2012 23:16 False_Peace wrote:Oh and one more post. One thing that really irritates me is when people bash the US about its debt. Yes it is true that the USA has the largest debt in the world. However this is not really the best measure to consider. OF course since the USA has the largest economy it would seem natural that it would also have the largest debt. So.... A better measure to consider is debt compared to % of GDP. If we look at this figure then the following nations are in much bigger shit than the US: Japan, Italy, Greece, Singapore, Belgium, Canada, Germany, France, Egypt, UK and the Netherlands. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_debt
Some of them also have a higher probability to pay them back(and in the financeworld, that's what counts) which you can see at the ratings for example
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Of course USA have culture, but it obviously originates to just a few hundred years back since its a new country. Most movies and series everyone here watch is American, they have the worlds greatest film industry. USA have their own sports like baseball and american football, very distinctive things. Alot of products we Europeans use are originally from USA because of their ability to invent things and their hard working citizens.
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On January 21 2012 23:27 Chargelot wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 23:22 JesusOurSaviour wrote:The only negative things which I have to say about American culture are the following: Too much obesity Too much whinging and whining (esp from the men? Man up???????) Too much greed and materialism Too much "God's gift to the world" complex. Apart from the above, America actually has a very rich culture. The people there are for the most part genuine and warm. I heard everyone in Australia works for free, because they're not greedy and they don't value material things. And they never complain. Ever. You could throw a brick at an Australian and he would compliment how good you look, AND give you his house, while he explains how his bricks aren't as good as your bricks, because he is very modest. But hey, you got me on the obesity thing.
It's funny cuz most of the world would think that australians are pretty cool for being like that 
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On January 21 2012 23:23 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 23:07 SilentchiLL wrote:On January 21 2012 23:04 zalz wrote:On January 21 2012 23:01 SilentchiLL wrote:On January 21 2012 22:56 zalz wrote:
Some people are seriously trying to argue that the US economy is around the level of a 3rd world country :')
I worry for the sanity of the people on my continent.
I understand the need to bash America. It's been hard having to deal with the fact that we aren't the center of the world anymore.
But atleast keep your bashing grounded in some sense of reality. You might want to atleast once in your life take a plane to the USA, step of it, and realize that in fact there is a small difference between Zimbabwe and the USA. pretty sure that everybody here said that it's not on the level of them (not is a very important word here) On January 21 2012 22:52 white_horse wrote:On January 21 2012 22:48 IntoTheheart wrote:On January 21 2012 22:43 white_horse wrote:On January 21 2012 22:31 KalWarkov wrote:
The difference is, that Europe has a larger varity of culture.
3000 years of history formed so many unique things, while America has 300 years of history, thats what America lacks a bit.
I guess what makes me speechless when europeans bash america for its relative lack of culture is the way they phrase it, as if it's our fault for not developing a culture as good as the one they have. We just happened to not have been around as long as they have. Whats so wrong about that? More importantly, how is it fair to even compare the culture of europe and the US? US is a giant amalgation of many different cultures. European countries like germany, france, belgium, etc are homogeonous groups of people who each share their own common set of values and characteristics (i.e culture). So how is it americans' and their ancestors' faults for not having the kind of "culture" that europeans are accustomed to? People enjoy hating. That hating just happens to be directed at the US. Gemany and Italy weren't exactly one homogeonous country for as far back as we can remember but I agree with that. Out of curiosity, how big of an impact do Native Americans have on the, "culture," of the current USA? Not very much. Maybe except as mascots for certain baseball teams lol. Can we stay out of the subject of native americans? It's a source of another popular line of america-bashing. Slowly you just seem paranoid, not everybody hates americans, in fact I'd say that most here don't. Americans are on average richer then Germans. I don't understand why this fact makes you so angry. They are richer then Dutch people aswell. I seem to still be sane. Pretty sure that the average income of a US American is lower than the one of a German, and they have way bigger debts with a lower probability to pay them back aswell. Atleast that would only make sense, since lower jobless number, a high export/import difference in germany, opposed to the export/import deficit in america, it's lower credit rating(triple A anyone?) and the higher debts. #1 USA #2 Switzerland #3 Germany The difference between your average Hans and your average Joe is about 5k a year.
That might be one of the reasons for the debt then, though I doubt that it stays like that in the future
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The US is the literary birthplace of Jean-Luc Picard. How DARE you say we have no culture.
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The culture of a nation is reflected in the values, ideals and not just the arts (literature, philosophy, architecture, gastronomy etc.). If you overlook the fact that the history of America is relatively small and in no way comparable to that of many other countries (that covers the part about arts etc.), unfortunately the average American (and I refer mainly to the U.S. citizens btw) today remains uninterested in the spiritual nurture and pursues only his personal success, material possessions, fame and power in his life. Values such as friendship, family, kindness and compassion have lost their true meaning and nobody even notices. But hey, those are the values that the arts promote anyway, so maybe they are not that meaningless. Sadly that kind of lifestyle has influenced more or less every modern society, since economical power usually means influential ability as well. That's what most people refer to when they talk about lack of culture in my opinion.
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On January 21 2012 23:40 DannyJ wrote:
The US is the literary birthplace of Jean-Luc Picard. How DARE you say we have no culture.
His name sounds french though... ^^
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On January 21 2012 23:21 eccokk wrote:
america is a young country and therefore lacks history, and for most history is culture.
who is a famous american writer? hemmingway? poe ? twain?
not too bad but compared to the likes of schiller, goethe, shakespeare, tolstoy, dostoevsky ot the thousands of much more famous and impressive european writers it is just a insult to compare them.
same goes for musicans and artist in general, springstin vs beethoven? madonna vs bach? da vinci vs gates? van gogh vs warhole?
again not your fault your country is too young to have a rich and impressive cultural background like europe, but its just silly to say it aint there.
reading here that stuff like baseball or coca cola is supossed to be your argument for having a strong culture, well lets just say it does not help to debunk the stereotypes.
Oh now here's a good one. You base 'amount of culture' to 'longer history'. Not only that, but you then compare authors of writings, music plays and paintings with completely different styles. And the 'it's not your fault' sentence basically comes down to this: It's not your fault your culture isn't rich and impressive like mine totally is.
Your post does as much damage to the European stereotype of 'bitching about the US because we have a baseless complex' than it does to prove the stereotype that American culture is at its highest point with Coca cola and baseball.
The only thing that truly amazes me though is that you have the audacity to compare artists like that. Madonna vs Bach? Van Gogh versus Andy Warhol? The hell is up with this? Atleast compare them to artists within their own style. Just because classical music and figurative art has a higher esteem value and general elitist poshness surrounding it doesn't mean it is better than Pop music or Pop-Art. By that same token I can compare the aestetical value of Mondriaans work to the work of Jackson Pollock and come to the conclusion that American culture is more sophisticated because it uses a wider range of colour.
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On January 21 2012 23:41 SilentchiLL wrote:Show nested quote +On January 21 2012 23:40 DannyJ wrote:
The US is the literary birthplace of Jean-Luc Picard. How DARE you say we have no culture. His name sounds french though... ^^
... and he has an English accent....
Shut up!!!!!
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On January 21 2012 23:35 Astyanaxis wrote:
Maybe... Maybe they mean to say that mainstream American culture seems soulless and brutal. I think America's pop scene is pretty soulless. Kind of uncreative. Filled with remakes and redundancies and the music seems to have only a few chord progressions going for it. I also think mainstream American culture is a sledge hammer. Obtuse and slow to swing in new directions. But that's mainstream. There are tons of non mainstream things that are wonderful in America. It's my hope that people in America look at pop and roll their eyes, but I have a feeling some people are actually engrossed in the lives of however many Jersey dwelling idiots, a woman who seems to steal songs and is making up for a massive lack of attention in high school, and whatever other pop thing is iconic at the time but otherwise absolutely forgettable. Ala Backstreet Boys, N*Sync, New Kids on the Block (and other stuff that, you know, ISN'T a boy band).
Perhaps that's the reason for the insult? We don't have any cultural icons that last for more than a few internet minutes before the next big thing/scandal/WTF moment/holy amazing thing hits the airwaves. American culture isn't so much iconic as it is several flashes in the pan, so to speak. And hipsters have made it too ironic to like old good things anymore. Hipsters -_-
![[image loading]](http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/36/3603/ZXDEF00Z/poster/marilyn-monroe.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.miranslog.nl/wp-content/mickey_mouse.jpg)
So few cultural icons
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On January 21 2012 16:42 Vindicare605 wrote:
The thing is. American culture is so mainstrream everywhere in the western world that most people forget its actually american.
Well I think the main problem about that mainstream aspect is that we outside the US get the cheap, gimmicky and sellout influences of the culture rather than the main culture itself. And if you recognize how shitty/gimmicky the mainstream influences we're getting here are, you tend to confuse that for the real deal which it is not. For instance, there's a McD/Starbucks at every corner of the street but noone here does thanksgiving. Well, you know what I mean.
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EPT
