While I agree to the majority of your post, there is no telling what will happen to you during a physical fight of this nature. There is no way that the bully victim will know how far the bully will go to in fighting him, so he took his own actions to defend himself. You can always criticize what happens after the actual event, but when you are placed right in it, you only have seconds to defend yourself.
Stabbing someone 12 times is not an appropiate action for defending yourself from someone who is unnarmed.
No one he should get away with absolutely no criminal penalties (I might agree that a murder charge would be too much), but our laws are so fucked up thats whats going to happen.
But he isn't unarmed. Sure, he might not carry a knife or a gun, but he has the "might" of a pack of bullies behind him, ready to step in as soon as their victim hits back.
Yeah agreed. Even being armed isn't enough when the numbers get high. I wouldn't want to fight 5+ bigger guys than me with a knife.
On January 10 2012 16:48 Daimai wrote: I can see some people here haven't experienced bullying. Telling on them is not a solution. i hope saavedra shrugs it off, not worth getting so hung up abput killing someone who deserved it
I don't think the bully deserved to be killed, but Saavedra definitely doesn't deserve to be punished.
The kid even told the bully he didn't want to fight, and SHOWED HIM THE KNIFE and the bully proceeded to try to fight him anyways. He even got off the bus at a stop that wasn't his own in order to try to avoid the fight.
The bully, at this point, in my honest opinion deserved to die. If you can be that foul, to stalk someone else to no ends to simply make their lives miserable AND physically attempt to harm them (and we have no idea to what extent, the bully DID punch the kid first in the head), then you need to be prepared to be killed. Especially if the other side SHOWS YOU they have a knife!
Also to all the people who says its wrong, what the kid did - Have you ever been in a real fight? No? That's what I thought, so dont try to talk about something, you dont know anything about, k thx.
Not that I'd ever believe anyone deserves to die/be killed however; the end quote by the family was well put, and brought to mind the quote, "kill one to warn a hundred". I really hope we can see less and less bullying over time. I hope the kid doesn't go back to school and be teased about being a 'killer'.
But I'm still glad he got away with selfdefense, because being assaulted by multiple people, is the scariest shit ever, and believe me I know.
Because pocketknifes are not exactly the biggest, longest, deepest penetrating knives and he was probably flailing and wildly stabbing to get the assailant away from him without any training in knife fighting? If I stab you half a dozen times in non vital places, I'm pretty sure you could still not only walk away but continue fighting. Which seemed to be the case as I believe the report indicated that he was still getting punched even after pulling out the knife. Think of it this way, if you were the bully and all of a sudden your "prey" just pulled a knife on you...you would probably think you had to win the fight at any cost or else he'd come stab you to death. So you keep fighting...and keep getting stabbed. I'm surprised there weren't more wounds.
On January 10 2012 17:04 FabledIntegral wrote: The kid even told the bully he didn't want to fight, and SHOWED HIM THE KNIFE and the bully proceeded to try to fight him anyways.
Good law, glad the kid isn't punished.
The bully should have just stabbed him to death in self defense, would have been ok.
In fact, it sounds to be me like the bully was ok in defending himself, after all, the kid pulled a knife on him.
Did I read the .pdf wrong? If I understand correctly, the kid had the equivalent of a Swiss army knife, which have tiny blades. Considering the chaos and adrenaline of being in a fight, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the bully didn't even react in a major, "I'm going to stop kicking your ass" sort of way. Maybe something to take into consideration.
While I agree to the majority of your post, there is no telling what will happen to you during a physical fight of this nature. There is no way that the bully victim will know how far the bully will go to in fighting him, so he took his own actions to defend himself. You can always criticize what happens after the actual event, but when you are placed right in it, you only have seconds to defend yourself.
Stabbing someone 12 times is not an appropiate action for defending yourself from someone who is unnarmed.
No one he should get away with absolutely no criminal penalties (I might agree that a murder charge would be too much), but our laws are so fucked up thats whats going to happen.
But he isn't unarmed. Sure, he might not carry a knife or a gun, but he has the "might" of a pack of bullies behind him, ready to step in as soon as their victim hits back.
Or he could have maybe stabbed him once instead of 12 times to kill him. Don't know ~
You're not going to stop anyone by stabbing them once with a pocket knife. Most likely it would just enrage them further to amplify your ass whooping even more.
case in point: girl stabs other girl with a pocket knife in this video at 1:16 mark. You tell me if stabbing once was enough to stop her adversary from raining blows upon her
As tragic as the death is, I hope this is the last time that this ever has to happen. Hopefully it's a wake-up call to other bullies out there and gives them a message: that there are consequences when you push someone too far.
Edit(post happened while I was replying):
You're not going to stop anyone by stabbing them once with a pocket knife. Most likely it would just enrage them further to amplify your ass whooping even more.
This. They could easily turn the tables on you with adrenaline, possibly ending with YOU being the one stabbed.
Honestly. I'm not sure what to think about this, but it was an act in self defense hence, I can't say killing him was good. Why did he have a knife in the first place.
The mental state of a child under attack can not be dismissed. You don't make rational decisions when you're under attack. You react. The fact that he stabbed the boy 12 times is more a testament to just how mentally strung out the poor kid was during this situation, than it is some sort of hint at the child "murderous intent". This is a good ruling. And there have been very similar rulings for people of all ages.
You cannot predict what you will do in a given situation until you are met with it. And people met with this situation usually do not behave rationally, and can not be considered at fault for their actions, unless they have been specifically trained to do otherwise.
If this were a case of a black belt Karav-maga instructer the charge would likely have been manslaughter. But it wasn't. It was some poor kid put into a terrible situation.
This does not mean we condone for a child to murder another when under such situations. It means we accept that there is no way we should expect someone to behave in a rational matter in such conditions.
On January 10 2012 17:04 FabledIntegral wrote: The kid even told the bully he didn't want to fight, and SHOWED HIM THE KNIFE and the bully proceeded to try to fight him anyways.
Good law, glad the kid isn't punished.
The bully should have just stabbed him to death in self defense, would have been ok.
In fact, it sounds to be me like the bully was ok in defending himself, after all, the kid pulled a knife on him.
Too bad he died and has no word in the matter
Except the bully was the instigator, and there were several witnesses. k.
While I agree to the majority of your post, there is no telling what will happen to you during a physical fight of this nature. There is no way that the bully victim will know how far the bully will go to in fighting him, so he took his own actions to defend himself. You can always criticize what happens after the actual event, but when you are placed right in it, you only have seconds to defend yourself.
Stabbing someone 12 times is not an appropiate action for defending yourself from someone who is unnarmed.
No one he should get away with absolutely no criminal penalties (I might agree that a murder charge would be too much), but our laws are so fucked up thats whats going to happen.
But he isn't unarmed. Sure, he might not carry a knife or a gun, but he has the "might" of a pack of bullies behind him, ready to step in as soon as their victim hits back.
Or he could have maybe stabbed him once instead of 12 times to kill him. Don't know ~
You just said it right there. "Don't know."
You have no idea what you are talking about, so please stop talking. When you feel your life is being threatened, you're not thinking rationally. He's not going to think "I'll just stab him once so he'll leave me alone, and then I'll be on my merry way." When you are in a situation like that, instinct takes over.
Is anyone else disturbed/angry that the schoolmates were standing in a semi-circle and watching the fight as if it was entertainment? I don't see how 3 bullies ganging up on a weak kid is entertainment, nor do I think a live genuine stabbing is. The schoolmates who knew of this and didn't do anything to stop it... I'll just state something I've learned: they're part of the problem.
While I agree to the majority of your post, there is no telling what will happen to you during a physical fight of this nature. There is no way that the bully victim will know how far the bully will go to in fighting him, so he took his own actions to defend himself. You can always criticize what happens after the actual event, but when you are placed right in it, you only have seconds to defend yourself.
Stabbing someone 12 times is not an appropiate action for defending yourself from someone who is unnarmed.
No one he should get away with absolutely no criminal penalties (I might agree that a murder charge would be too much), but our laws are so fucked up thats whats going to happen.
But he isn't unarmed. Sure, he might not carry a knife or a gun, but he has the "might" of a pack of bullies behind him, ready to step in as soon as their victim hits back.
Or he could have maybe stabbed him once instead of 12 times to kill him. Don't know ~
You just said it right there. "Don't know."
You have no idea what you are talking about, so please stop talking. When you feel your life is being threatened, you're not thinking rationally. He's not going to think "I'll just stab him once so he'll leave me alone, and then I'll be on my merry way." When you are in a situation like that, instinct takes over.
In fact, it's very possible one or two stabs wouldn't be sufficient to prevent himself from getting his ass kicked, depending on the size of the knife, where hte bully was stabbed, and how the adrenaline was affecting said bully. 12, yes, seemingly excessive.... but as you said, no idea the state of mind.
Entering the bully's name "Dylan Nuno" in youtube shows a ton of tributes to him from friends and family. A couple vids have what looks like his entire school giving him a tribute. This dude was really loved. I'm still convinced he was a dick for bullying that junior, though.
While I agree to the majority of your post, there is no telling what will happen to you during a physical fight of this nature. There is no way that the bully victim will know how far the bully will go to in fighting him, so he took his own actions to defend himself. You can always criticize what happens after the actual event, but when you are placed right in it, you only have seconds to defend yourself.
Stabbing someone 12 times is not an appropiate action for defending yourself from someone who is unnarmed.
No one he should get away with absolutely no criminal penalties (I might agree that a murder charge would be too much), but our laws are so fucked up thats whats going to happen.
But he isn't unarmed. Sure, he might not carry a knife or a gun, but he has the "might" of a pack of bullies behind him, ready to step in as soon as their victim hits back.
Or he could have maybe stabbed him once instead of 12 times to kill him. Don't know ~
You just said it right there. "Don't know."
You have no idea what you are talking about, so please stop talking. When you feel your life is being threatened, you're not thinking rationally. He's not going to think "I'll just stab him once so he'll leave me alone, and then I'll be on my merry way." When you are in a situation like that, instinct takes over.
Not thinking rationally isn't an excuse for murder. Sounds to me like you have no idea what you're talking about.
EPT
