|
While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 14 2011 20:46 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:43 Ysellian wrote:On December 14 2011 20:39 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:36 Ysellian wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:28 Ysellian wrote:On December 14 2011 20:20 MasterBlasterCaster wrote:On December 14 2011 20:19 iamke55 wrote:On December 14 2011 20:17 Klogbert wrote:On December 14 2011 20:16 Packawana wrote:
[quote]
But were those games actually played out?
This is the main thing, this wasn't a form of BM that was meant to insult the opponent in the way dropping mules is. This is BM in the way that insults the tournament and insults the viewers.
If you play for any team or any sport, you are expected to give your all no matter what your standing is, no matter how far down or far up you are. When it becomes blatantly obvious that you're not playing to win (and reaffirm that post-match), then you are not living to the professionalism that is supposed to be integral in any competition. You must not really watch sports then...the Indianapolis Colts certainly aren't giving their all. The Chicago Cubs at the end of every year don't even play their stars. Not sending your best players in a team sport is the equivalent in SC2 of trying out a new build that isn't as refined as your old one. No it isn't. That analogy is quite good actually. No it isn't.
If you are not playing your best players, you are admitting defeat. You want it to be different because you want to hate on Nani for offending you bullshit sensibilities. get over yourself. Except that is where you are wrong. Not playing your best players puts you at a disadvantage similar to a unrefined strategy, but your players on the field are still playing for the win. If players actually roll over and let the opponent just kick their ass the immediate reaction would be that the match was fixed. Look up Dinamo Zagreb for such an example. and let it be known that Naniwa did NOT micro his probes. Nope. Most of the time those players run plays that are designed to end the game as quickly as possible so as to avoid injury so you are dead fucking wrong and stop making shit up for like the seventh time. Dude I'm not making shit up I was always under the impression that teams have to play to win or else they get punished for it. Which in Association Football has actually resulted in the punishment of quite a few teams. If you're talking about soccer, well... that is one of the most ridiculously whiny and girly sports in that respect that exists. In a real sport, IE "American football" they aren't expected to give out bs lip service.
Was this really necessary? To talk down on a whole sport like this  Way to show your class I guess.
|
On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:43 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Shortynut wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. a probe rush actually has a chance of winning too, it's much much smaller but it IS a strategy, the problem people are having is that he did it under the circumstances of the competition (down 0-3 playing to stay out of last place in the group), that and he decided not to give viewers what they actually wanted, which was a rematch to settle the heat. it's that he said he did it to throw the game. Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong.
You can win vs your opponents at your bronze level not vs nestea bro and you are like the most stupid person or worst troll in tl
|
"ooh i paid 5000million bucks to see that match!!" Okey.. who gives a fuck? First of all, who makes money if you're paying to watch the match? What does it give the players? They just take money for the rivalry between them. Me myself wouldn't play a pointless match. Would it make any difference if he went for another strategy which was cheesy like bronze players would do? No, because GOM wanted him to play 30min+ game against NesTea. I'm not saying NaniWa deserved it, because he didn't. He might be abit cocky. But you know what? The tournaments are taking being nice with such a big deal. I bet none of the progamers are playing because they wanna socialise with other people. Play your best or go home. Which leads to the point where NaniWa got banned. He didn't played his best, why? We don't know, would he earn anything by playing his best and lose? No, that would just make NesTea look better. NaniWa had a shit tournament and probably would just like to go home and practice even more.
Just my own thoughts 
|
On December 14 2011 20:16 ander wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:08 Deadeight wrote:On December 14 2011 20:05 nugget-92 wrote:
If GOM is going to host the Global Starcraft League and actually work at inviting foreign players to travel to their country to participate it is abhorrent for GOM to completely ignore the fact that these players will come from different cultures.
Any reasonable organisation that plans to host a Global event has to accept that people from countries outside their own will have different ideals and will not act in a manner that will conform to you strict cultural sensibilities.
Complexity and Quantic have now suffered significant financial damages because of this decision. Furthermore, Naniwa has invested significant time and effort into participating in this league and is now suspended.
GOM has even stated that Naniwa is a money-hungry player. This suggests that GOM probably did not consult Naniwa before they made their decision. Why? Because Naniwa has maintained and shown that, whilst he is introverted and has trouble keeping his emotions in check, his aspirations lie with being the best. Except throughout the thread people from all cultures (including yours) have supported GOM's decision. It's not a korean vs the world thing. Well yeah, which is fine. Most people are supporting GOM's decision with respect to the odd position they were placed in, and not the decision itself. He's right; if it wasn't in Korea, there would be no problem whatsoever. I know when i watched it, i thought it was hilarious, and that it felt pretty light hearted, especially after nani and nesteas cheeky interaction at the press conference interviews. The reason it's a problem is PURELY because of a clash of cultures; obviously Naniwa would not have done it if he'd know that he was punishable by some vague and obscure rule buried deep within the regulations. This is the same stupid thing, where in that AllStar game, HuK beat nestea, and then the korean community complained that huk was actually trying too hard. All of the GSL rules are tailored to be as vague as possible so there is room for them to interpret them as they will. There was no rule about in-game play; it's not like naniwa came out and said "fuck you" to his face. If you ban naniwa, you might as well ban manner mules, people pulling scv's with their 1/1/1, and MC's throat slash. To let those stand while you ban Nani is pure hypocrisy.
I disagree.
First off, the list at the end of your post. Those things do not mean that people didn't see a good, competitive game. Probe rushing has never been a competitive strategy. If MC does a throat slash after a game, it's just some light-hearted fun, but the Nestea vs Naniwa game basically didn't happen, I'm disappointed in him for not trying to show a good game not because I think he BMd nestea.
Whilst I think GOM was in a difficult decision, I personally think that he did need punishing. Maybe losing his code S spot completely is a bit harsh, maybe not paying him at all for Blizzard cup would have been more appropriate. But he agreed beforehand to play all those games, and he didn't really play that last one,
HuK never got punished for trying too hard in that all-star game. I completely sympathise with that situation, especially when Jinro vs Fruitdealer opened with a reall game with them both trying hard. But it's not the same situation.
|
So undeserved. What he did was pissy but not even close to deserving the huge shit storm that he have got.
Naniwa fighting!
|
It sucks that gom is basically punishing him for his personality, another player would've been more subtle, 6pool, or whatever, but since it's naniwa and since he's a frustrated human being, he wasnt thinking. and dont tell me that there's a difference between 6-pooling and this just cuz 6pool has a chance to win.
1st of all it was Antiga Shipyard Xposition, a 6pool wouldnt stand a chance.
2nd: The chance to win doesnt matter if there's nothing to win, the game itself would've given him absoluetly nothing.
And since the reason to punish him was
"- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours"
How is some way to quickly finish a game and dodging a longer game any different from any other way?
3rd: Punishing naniwa for not wanting to play a game that meant nothing, espec when throwing happens all the time, by taking away something from him that means a LOT, is unfair and, like some other people have already said, just a way to show that it's all about the money instead of the sport.
That's just my thougts on the matter.
Edit: Personally I didnt even want to watch the game simply due to the fact that it didnt mean anything.
Edit2: The fact that Nestea was practicing for his birthday is so NOT a viable argument. Im pretty sure nesteA practiced for the matches that meant something and that would take him to the playoffs, not some pointless match that meant nothing. If im wrong, correct me :>
|
Its not correct and childish of GOM.
Look at other sports like Soccer, if in the Group-Stage of the Championsleague 2 Teams are already out, they wont send their best players on the field and even those guys wont play at their full potential.
If you think competitive its normal that you cant play at your full potencial at games like that.
Oh and picking any rule and use it like gom does (cause Naniwa didnt offend anybody) its like acting like George W. (Picking some reasons for war).
|
hey GOM btw. Why don't you ban Nestea for throwing away this Blizzcon final for big money vs MVP? You Starcraft experts must know Nestea wasn't playing legit, no?
|
On December 14 2011 20:43 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:41 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:38 Nate.F wrote:On December 14 2011 20:38 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:36 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:35 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:32 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:29 ander wrote:
This thread is one of the biggest jokes i think i've ever seen on teamliquid. The amount of hypocrisy is beyond belief.
It was a meaningless game; if you've ever even slightly payed attention to sport before, you'll know that there are indeed such things as meaningless games.
If you support GSL's decision, then you also probably support the removal of manner mules, people pulling scv's, and MC's throat slash. You cannot say that he threw the game; he obviously could have just 4gated and nobody would have cried. What if nestea was 6pooling?
What about the fact that idra has previously outright refused to play matches? Holy shit, everyone grab your pitchfork.
This is an embarrassment. I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. Worker rush works against a 6 pool, it has a win rate. Therefore it is also legit. This argument has been crushed so many times in this thread. Sorry I forgot that 7 probes beats 6 zerglings+5 drones I'm sorry You get there before the lings pop out.. rofl. I also missed the fact that 7 probes arrive to a Zerg base in under 1 minute on a 4 PLAYER map and the Zerg player(NesTea) would be incompetent enough to let his drones freely die to probes before zerglings die umm it was forced cross pos iirc Forced cross position doesnt matter. 7 probes cannot kill 5 drones or a hatchery fast enough before the zerg has more units and beats you. Fact is that the worker rush doesn't have a ZERO percent chance of winning. If NesTea botched his micro somehow he could lose. So that bares the question, how low or high of a win chance does a strategy have to have before it's deemed "OFFENSIVE".
If the strat can take you to GM, like 6 pool, then I think it should not be deemed offensive. (what's up with the all caps OFFENSIVE btw?)
If the strat barely can take you out of bronze, like worked rush, then I think it can safely be assumed that the played didn't try to win at all.
|
On December 14 2011 20:47 Hyperionnn wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Shortynut wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. a probe rush actually has a chance of winning too, it's much much smaller but it IS a strategy, the problem people are having is that he did it under the circumstances of the competition (down 0-3 playing to stay out of last place in the group), that and he decided not to give viewers what they actually wanted, which was a rematch to settle the heat. it's that he said he did it to throw the game. Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong. You can win vs your opponents at your bronze level not vs nestea bro and you are like the most stupid person or worst troll in tl
Can't win vs Nestea with a 4 gate, BAN ALL 4 GATERS!
|
On December 14 2011 20:38 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:31 Destructicon wrote:
This was the right move from GOM TV and I support them for doing this.
Like it or not gaming is now becoming a profession, you have to behave and act in a certain way, to be respectful and not offend anyone, the same its done in other sports. GOM did the right thing to show that, behavior like this will not be tolerated.
I'm quite sure the majority of people are raging because they suspect Korean bias from GOM and also view Naniwa as sort of our "foreign hero".
Consider that, when one of their own, Slayers_Coca started a matchfixing scandal he was quickly forced to give up his Code S and if he wouldn't have done it GOM would have done it at least.
Secondly, why should we forgive Naniwa? Just because he is a foreigner? The rules are for all, Naniwa messed up and deserved this. In actual fact the majority of the people here have a distorted outlook on reality, they think that, just because you are a great player/personality you can afford to be a jerk in life and just piss over everyone. That is NOT how the world works, nor how it is meant to work. The people offended by GOMs decision should be offended by Naniwa's gesture and should re-view their outlook on life. But you're missing the point- Korean players aren't respectful to each other! They taunt and BM their opponents in all sorts of ways. They build manner nexuses and hatcheries, they drop manner mules and make their units dance. After matches they do thumbs down and all sorts of other disrespectful ceremonies and Gom never gives two shits about any of this behavior. If they want players to be professional that's fine, but they need to be consistent about it.
There is a vastly difference between throwing a game against a player that practiced on his birthday for the match and 'BM' at the end of the game and outside the game. Their ceremonies creates relationship and rivalries between the players - and its all for the fans (which wasn't NaNiwa's intention).
As much as I hate NaNiwa for what he did, which was outright shitting on the system that he lives of (the viewers), I think revoking his code S spot was maybe to harsh. I'm fine with them setting the standards. Maybe a fine or dropping him down to code a (which means someone from code a or code a seed needs to take his code s spot) would be in place. NaNiwa needs to step his shit up, manner up and suck it up - respect people.
|
Why don't everyone write to GOM !!! asking them to withdraw their decision. Issuing him warning letter instead.
Letting Naniwa to be an example of "abusive behaviours"
|
I can see how they think this is disrespectful for his opponent. However i do not think his oppentent really thought so and if you asked him in all his onesty i think he was glad the game which didnt MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL was ended fast.
In my opinion it is way more disrespectful to make the commentators say that all the games always are the most high level they have ever seen and being so good damn good all the time. All the viewers have seen better games at some point and it takes away alot of the feeling when really cool moves are pulled off.
I am really sad for this decission from GOM and I would love to see some sort of collection of votes against it.
|
On December 14 2011 20:46 ethos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:06 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:04 ethos wrote:
He could have just spent 5, at most 10 minutes of his fucking life hashing out the last game, but instead he throws it, doing something that is obviously disrespectful to Gom?
Did you really think Gom would just sit idly by while someone gets on their stage and disrespects them?
How would that make them look?
It amazes me that such a large portion of the community supports this (obvious disrespect).
Some of you are like the kids that support Kanye. You're from South Korea so I'm sorry to say but your opinion may be skewed. For being a Global Star League, the GSL sure does incorporate so many different cultures. The only people who were seriously offended were some of the Koreans. Instead of considering the situation from more than one point a view, a GLOBAL point of view if you will, they say "He offended Koreans, he's out". I am not from South Korea. I was born and raised on US Army bases. I imagine this would count as disrespect in pretty much every culture's books. What did you think this commotion was all about? You guys are bullshitting yourselves if someone unnecessarily throwing a game wouldn't count as pointless disrespect anywhere else in the world. Almost any other prestigious organization would have reacted accordingly. Not even trying is for all intents and purposes the same thing as no show.
Nasl, mlg say different.
|
On December 14 2011 20:44 Doraemon wrote:
i'm going to repost my analogy here because i think it's very relevant
how would you feel if someone comes to your poker game, starts throwing hands and revealing hands and just being disrespecful.
even though he didn't break any rules, he did not follow the etiquette of the game, would you want him back? no
What a brilliant analogy, you sir are a genius! I would certainly not expect a player that has no chips left to stay in my poker game messing it up. I'm not much of a poker player any longer but I certainly know that a player with no chips left, whether it is in a tournament or not would not still be playing. Also I doubt any professional poker player would play for toy money i.e for no gain at all
|
I don't understand how this is any different from his just doing a shitty 4gate and not trying. It's hard to draw the line of "throwing the game." If nani did quad-proxy gates in an easily scoutable place would they kick him out?
|
The main fault is the tornament format, even in other competitions that have similar approches that often happens. It's pretty frustrating to a player having to play just to fill the holes because this tournament format is a bullshit, if u lose one game you're almost out, and ONE GAME does not show if a player is better or not...so this format sucks as hell.
I'm not buying tickets this season i never agreed with this creepy format, and now this is it...i'm out...have fun GOM for working aganist esports because this tournament format stinks !
|
On December 14 2011 20:46 Serelitz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Shortynut wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. a probe rush actually has a chance of winning too, it's much much smaller but it IS a strategy, the problem people are having is that he did it under the circumstances of the competition (down 0-3 playing to stay out of last place in the group), that and he decided not to give viewers what they actually wanted, which was a rematch to settle the heat. it's that he said he did it to throw the game. Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong. At that level, yeah it won't work. No sc2 progamer will ever lose to a 7 worker rush, EVER. I'll literally eat my own hat if that ever happens.
What makes you so sure? What proof do you have that it 100% would not work other than "well I don't think it would work".
|
On December 14 2011 20:44 kslghost wrote:
This decision has absolutely 0 to do with any one country's culture. You'd get in trouble at any tournament for doing this, especially if it's on a broadcast. And your sponsors won't look lightly on it either.
You guys need to get over the idea that a game being meaningless is an excuse to not give an effort. You get a chance to play a real game against m-fking nestea, a 3 time champion. It matters to anyone who has a modicum of pride.
Naniwa had owned Neaste 2 times in MLG providence so why would that be such a huge deal for him?
People need to stop saying that it does not matter that the game had zero meaning. Do you follow sport at all? Have you even competed personally in any sport? When a game does not have any real purpose, it is a totally different thing froma competative game. It has always been like this and it always will be.
Was naniwas behaviour the best...fuck no, was it childish, yes but is it killing esport and justifi that gomtv trashtalk him and kicks him from GSL.........NOOOOOOO.
GOMTV took it personal and took a horrible decision that was way out of proportion for what Naniwa did.
Its a disgrace to esport and more or less a huge scandal what GOMTV has done.
|
On December 14 2011 20:46 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2011 20:45 MooMooMugi wrote:On December 14 2011 20:44 ptrpb wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Vari wrote:On December 14 2011 20:43 Shortynut wrote:On December 14 2011 20:30 MooMooMugi wrote:
I think you are confusing a probe rush with a 6 pool. A 6 pool is a strategy that actually has a chance of winning no matter how small it is. Not to mention 6-pool is actually a good strategy on Tal'Darim Alter lol.. a probe rush actually has a chance of winning too, it's much much smaller but it IS a strategy, the problem people are having is that he did it under the circumstances of the competition (down 0-3 playing to stay out of last place in the group), that and he decided not to give viewers what they actually wanted, which was a rematch to settle the heat. it's that he said he did it to throw the game. Yes but MooMoo is saying that worker rush has a zero percent chance of winning a game, which is wrong. 0% against 6 pool. Given any skill level? Yeah, no.
Given if you're opponent is either Bronze or has no pulse, NesTea is neither
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
