While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote: [quote]
He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple.
Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior.
Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me.
It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season.
Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that?
Yes... they are going to deny MVP eligibility because they don't like him...
Lol, the chaos some people must be feeling right now. Their whole world is out of order because Naniwa got uninvited for unprofessional conduct. It's madness I tell you.
How can I make you understand, its not NaNiwa I care about. It's the precedent that is being set for the way future players may be treated. Stop trying to make it about NaNiwa. This is about GOM and how they are handling a situation, not NaNiwa
So professional players will be deterred from throwing their games. What's your point?
Are you slowly realizing you're getting your panties in a bunch for no reason?
Thanks for the personal attack, but no I do have a very valid reason. Right now you can argue its so they deter players from throwing games sure. A very good thing to do. But by stepping over the line like this, by booting a player who hasn't violated any rules, you set the precedent to do the same again, only for a different reason.
rules don't always have to be violated look at the world of law rules are CREATED and MODIFIED because of a NEED it's not like rules were created once thousands of years ago and we all abide by them
this is an ethics issue and naniwa slapped the koreans in the face gomtv has the power to deny anyone of anything relating to THEIR tournament they simply used a very bad rule to justify their actions but really, they don't need any justification at the end of the day they can do whatever they want
I agree that rules are created and modified because of a Need. This is exactly what should happen. A new rule should be created, or an old one modified. But you cannot boot a player for violating a rule that wasn't in place at the time of his violation. Doing so is unjustified.
oh but there is rule where you can boot a player that refuses to fulfill his obligation : paragraph 390, 548 of the korean civil code
On December 15 2011 05:23 Kresh wrote: I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
THis is 100% correct and quoted for truth.
I disagree, and I think it's a retarded analogy to compare tournament competition with a job that you are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGED to do.
On December 15 2011 05:23 Kresh wrote: I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
On December 15 2011 05:23 Kresh wrote: I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
THis is 100% correct and quoted for truth.
I disagree, and I think it's a retarded analogy to compare tournament competition with a job that you are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGED to do.
Uhh GOM payed him 900$ to be in this tournament, and though not a real contract, his is still obligated to play.
And also, to the people crying saying he broke no rules. HE THREW THE FUCKING GAME. A moved his probes and literally took his hands of the keyboard..... He is lucky he doesn't get banned for life.....
On December 15 2011 05:23 Kresh wrote: I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
THis is 100% correct and quoted for truth.
Not really, it brakes down in the first paragraph. If there is zero chance of customers that place would not be open. If there is a chance of customers the afternoon is not meaningless.
On December 15 2011 05:15 Kentakky wrote: Koreans are robots without any emotion, they don't know what Naniwa went through being so close to kill leenock and the others etc and then he had to play a final game didn't matter so he just proberushed there's no bad manner in that at all.
I'm not gonna watch GSL ever again, I won't kill eSports since I enjoy Dreamhacks and MLGs more anyway and I like Dota2 as well so I'll keep watching those but for koreans and GOM etc I've lost all respect what a bunch of whiny sissys.
User was temp banned for this post.
Lol more like Koreans are professionals that know how to act accordingly. They don't moan and whine when things don't go their way. They might do it off camera but seriously what kind of professional anything throws that kind of tantrum at what is supposed to be a celebrational tournament of that year? Think before you speak and in naniwas case Think before you act.
On December 15 2011 05:35 SidianTheBard wrote: Serves him right. Pulling his 6 probes, 1a'ing, playing 1 handed, not giving a care in the world.
He got what he deserves. If he doesn't feel like caring, why should GOMTV.
Haha thats pretty silly, an eye for an eye rules is not something to strive for.
Bad idea by Naniwa Bad response by gomTV.
I find it interesting that throwing an important match is makes you less than shit but talking shit about a private person is acceptable(IM coach) Any SK want to shed some light on this?
1. Is bad but in Sweden nr2 is more unprofessional.
On December 15 2011 05:23 Kresh wrote: I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
THis is 100% correct and quoted for truth.
I disagree, and I think it's a retarded analogy to compare tournament competition with a job that you are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGED to do.
you do realize that for a contract to be legally bounding, the 2 parties need only to act as if they have a contract? I am really not familiar with korean law but considering that GOMtv is PAYING naniwa, and naniwa is PLAYING in return in Canada they would have a LEGALLY BINDING contract
It's important to have standards, and I agree with the decision. Imagine if the Colts just threw every game from now until the end of the season. How disgraceful would that be to the franchise and to all the fans?
On December 15 2011 05:17 RHMVNovus wrote: As I mentioned in the closed thread:
Jjakji defeated Leenock 4-2, rendering the 7th game meaningless. Why doesn't GSL make them play the 7th game? It could just as easily be argued that we paid for a best-of-seven (e.g. IdrA v. F91), not a first-to-four.
Why doesn't GSL play out all its best-of-X series?
EDIT: Removed unnecessary quote.
Read Doa's blog about this.
This tournament was specifically set up as a celebration of a year of starcraft. They played all the games not to just see who would advance but to put on a good show! and Naniwa basically took that a shit all over it, thats why GOM is so upset about this. Also you guys have to understand that being a pro gamer in Korea means being a professional and showing good games for the fans. Ever read a Koreans interview? They are always talking about wanting to show good games for the fans etc.
Tbh, I think that's why korean interviews is quite boring: They are so damn media trained that they all sound the same! I couldn't tell most of them apart if you took away the names and the pictures. I can't be the only one thinking this. Say what you want about naniwa, at least he's honest and not afraid to show his opinion.
On December 15 2011 05:23 Kresh wrote: I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
THis is 100% correct and quoted for truth.
I disagree, and I think it's a retarded analogy to compare tournament competition with a job that you are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGED to do.
Anyway, it happens the whole time at work. For example, people who have no project to complete at the moment, so actually no work to do. It makes no difference if they are ion or out of the office.
And in that situation, I make sure I don't catch them surfing...
On December 15 2011 05:23 Kresh wrote: I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
THis is 100% correct and quoted for truth.
I disagree, and I think it's a retarded analogy to compare tournament competition with a job that you are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGED to do.
so in your opinion gom is not contractually obliged to pay naniwa money if he wins gsl ?
naniwa entered into a contractual relationship with gom when he entered gsl
i dont know if gom actually lets any players sign contracts or just posts general terms and conditions and lets players read them if they want to
but disregarding the question if there is an actual contract or not. entering a tournament is concluding a contract with whatever entity runs the tournament
On December 15 2011 05:23 Kresh wrote: I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
THis is 100% correct and quoted for truth.
I disagree, and I think it's a retarded analogy to compare tournament competition with a job that you are CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGED to do.
And who's to say Naniwa wasn't ? Do you know so ? I certainly don't.
On December 15 2011 05:17 RHMVNovus wrote: As I mentioned in the closed thread:
Jjakji defeated Leenock 4-2, rendering the 7th game meaningless. Why doesn't GSL make them play the 7th game? It could just as easily be argued that we paid for a best-of-seven (e.g. IdrA v. F91), not a first-to-four.
Why doesn't GSL play out all its best-of-X series?
EDIT: Removed unnecessary quote.
Read Doa's blog about this.
This tournament was specifically set up as a celebration of a year of starcraft. They played all the games not to just see who would advance but to put on a good show! and Naniwa basically took that a shit all over it, thats why GOM is so upset about this. Also you guys have to understand that being a pro gamer in Korea means being a professional and showing good games for the fans. Ever read a Koreans interview? They are always talking about wanting to show good games for the fans etc.
Tbh, I think that's why korean interviews is quite boring: They are so damn media trained that they all sound the same! I couldn't tell most of them apart if you took away the names and the pictures. I can't be the only one thinking this. Say what you want about naniwa, at least he's honest and not afraid to show his opinion.
You've clearly not read MC's, DRG's or Polt's interviews. All of them are interesting, especially MC's. In fact, after seeing this thread, I don't know how people can say Koreans all sound the same.
EPT
