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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 05:14 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:13 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 05:10 dude_2 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:59 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. You think playing 3rd string players is trying to win? Trying to win would be playing 1st stringers every game, whether it matters or not. To give the fans a good showing, and to be respectful to the other team. Does this sound familiar? Not sure why people are trying to draw parallels to other sports. It doesn't work. In your example: For teams that have already made the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they don't want their starters to get hurt, and so they can rest up for the games that "matter." This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he doesn't want to get carpal tunnel. Obviously not the case. For teams that have already been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they want their backups to get experience. This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he really wants to get good at probe rushing but doesn't want to use it in a game that "matters." Neither of those analogies work for this case. Naniwa did a garbage strategy, that won't work, ever, and completely gave up in a game he could have won if he played it to its entirety. That is match-fixing, and is punishable by GOM. and what about the situation of a team loosing intentionally from the beginning of the season to get the first pick of the draft such as the colts this season? Anyone who says the Colts are losing intentionally from the beginning of the season obviously hasn't been watching the Colts. Do you even follow American Football? While they obviously have little to play for now, they're still playing. They really are just that bad. They still have enough talent to win at least 1 game. But they haven't. Are you sure you're watching the games?
No really, they don't. Their entire team was built upon one All American player who is capable of putting them ahead early. He's out for the year, and now they are starting (arguably) the worst QB in the league. Their (aging) defense is built around the pass rush, which doesn't work if your offense is terrible and can't score any points.
Even if they have enough talent to win games, it doesn't mean that they will. Any given Sunday, the Colts could come out and beat the Patriots. But they didn't. They got smoked because their offense is nonexistent and their defense is fragile.
Plus, no matter how convinced you are, you can't prove that they are intentionally losing games. You can 100%, without a doubt, prove that Naniwa intentionally lost that game. They're not analogous.
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- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
so thats the rule... lets look at other things that have been in violation of this rule without ANY punishment from gom
Idra vs jinro on jungle basin- Idra 6 pools and pulls drones vs a terran! this should never work, the chances are so damn slim but he still did it. He also stated that he did this because he felt that zerg had no chance on that map late game so he just was not going to play it out. I dont know about you but this feeling of im just not going to play this map can be offensive to the audience .
Bomber- almost any game ever, manner mules and scans piss players off. I know i HATE people who drop these things on me in game, its insulting and shouldn't be there
Loseria- In the GSTL when he danced his lings, then bomber later goes and dances his marines. You want to tell me that's not a diss? that under this rule if you are going to apply it like law both of these players shouldn't of been kicked out?
These are just three examples of many insults/diss/unprofessional play that has been in the GSL without the slightest hint of a punishment.
Now let me be clear I dont think ANY of these things deserve any action But if Gom is going to use a rule like that to punish a player you can not do it subjectively. You cant go oh this action was more insulting then that one, all insulting behavior has to be punished.
Should nani be punished? OF COURSE! He didnt play his best, he just gave up and thats not fun at all to see. Should he lose Code S? HELL NO! Should this rule be used subjectively just when gom feels like they have been insulted? not at all
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On December 15 2011 05:16 naut1c wrote:
have you ever seen a football team, last place in group, no more chance of advancing to playoffs, shoot owngoals on purpose?
you dont do that. its a professional sport. its an honour to play in such a great tournament, you dont joke with that.
your enemy deserves a chance to compete with you, if you play in such a competition. you offend your opponent if you just throw your game. you offend everyone, with a childish behaviour...
i really liked naniwas accomplishments so far, but he deserved this.
Last place in group play with their B-squad unless it's some nation that just wants a win in the world cup or something that might improve their overall world ranking. I've seen far worse things in real sports.
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On December 15 2011 05:14 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:13 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 05:10 dude_2 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:59 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. You think playing 3rd string players is trying to win? Trying to win would be playing 1st stringers every game, whether it matters or not. To give the fans a good showing, and to be respectful to the other team. Does this sound familiar? Not sure why people are trying to draw parallels to other sports. It doesn't work. In your example: For teams that have already made the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they don't want their starters to get hurt, and so they can rest up for the games that "matter." This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he doesn't want to get carpal tunnel. Obviously not the case. For teams that have already been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they want their backups to get experience. This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he really wants to get good at probe rushing but doesn't want to use it in a game that "matters." Neither of those analogies work for this case. Naniwa did a garbage strategy, that won't work, ever, and completely gave up in a game he could have won if he played it to its entirety. That is match-fixing, and is punishable by GOM. and what about the situation of a team loosing intentionally from the beginning of the season to get the first pick of the draft such as the colts this season? Anyone who says the Colts are losing intentionally from the beginning of the season obviously hasn't been watching the Colts. Do you even follow American Football? While they obviously have little to play for now, they're still playing. They really are just that bad. They still have enough talent to win at least 1 game. But they haven't. Are you sure you're watching the games?
Houston
Cleveland
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Kansas City
Cincinnati
New Orleans
Tennessee
Atlanta
Jacksonville
Carolina
New England
Baltimore
Tennessee
Houston
Jacksonville
Against this schedule? I really don't think so. The only chance they would've had is if they had faced Minnesota or St. Louis.
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On December 15 2011 05:15 Kentakky wrote:
Koreans are robots without any emotion, they don't know what Naniwa went through being so close to kill leenock and the others etc and then he had to play a final game didn't matter so he just proberushed there's no bad manner in that at all.
I'm not gonna watch GSL ever again, I won't kill eSports since I enjoy Dreamhacks and MLGs more anyway and I like Dota2 as well so I'll keep watching those but for koreans and GOM etc I've lost all respect what a bunch of whiny sissys.
Your loss, racist. This level of immaturity will not be missed.
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On December 15 2011 04:55 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:53 hunts wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 Krymming wrote:
Pretty silly to punish someone who didn't break any rules.
But that's just my opinion It is pretty silly to punish someone who didn't break any rules, you are right. Good thing GOMtv has a set of rules, one of which naniwa DID break, thereby earning his code S revocation. What if GOM had a rule stating "if we don't like the color shoes you are wearing, you will be banned" Would that be legitimate? The are interpreting a rule that was meant to apply to situations like in game abusive language, and ridiculous ceremonies, etc...and apply it to a situation which it Doesn't fit at all.
You are asking what if GOM tv had a dress code?
That would be fine.
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On December 15 2011 05:15 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:13 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 05:05 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:03 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On December 15 2011 04:49 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. I'm sorry but do you seriously not understand? It's not because we just want to see Naniwa but it's about not supporting an organization that makes these kind of decisions. Why not? Do you wish to see more players behaving like this in the next upcoming matches? For someone to do the exact same thing Naniwa did, knowing the consequences naniwa took, I myself would gladly ban that person from GSL along with the next players who follow in Naniwas footsteps. Why would you not support this decision? I'm one of few who thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did and if someone else does the same I won't mind then either. I'm not too big on everything being professional and anal but instead I prefer to see things as they are and with some common sense. Except that there are very good reasons for things being done in a professional manner. In this case, there's an obvious one - say I paid to see this event. I really wanted to see Naniwa vs. Nestea. That's the main reason I paid to see this event. It's incredibly disrespectful and unprofessional of Naniwa to do something like this when I many people pay to see certain events so they can see certain matches. This is why there are rules against things like this. But the tournament was set up so that when the game was to be played both naniwa and nestea were huge losers, they both underperformed all day and the game wouldn't have said anything on who is the better player. They were broken sad and tilted, I can't understand why anyone would want to see them play at that point. If Nestea can suck it up and try to play a good game why can't Naniwa?
My argument was to why you would want to see it at all but fine I'll bite on this as well.
People handle things differently, Naniwa is extremely emotional and people said he looked bored when he probe rushed but to me he looked sad and just wanted to leave. Have you seen soccer players when they lose an important game? They sit down and cry, imagine if someone walked up to them and told them to play another game right away that had no meaning on the tournament...
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On December 15 2011 05:17 RHMVNovus wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:00 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. Naniwa intentionally threw a game. Not just tried a crappy strategy, but essentially quit the game as soon as it start because his strategy had 0% chance of winning and he knew it. Everyone and their mother in every sport in the world knows that this is against the rules. There shouldn't be any argument about if he broke a rule. He did, he got punished. As I mentioned in the closed thread: Jjakji defeated Leenock 4-2, rendering the 7th game meaningless. Why doesn't GSL make them play the 7th game? It could just as easily be argued that we paid for a best-of-seven (e.g. IdrA v. F91), not a first-to-four. Why doesn't GSL play out all its best-of-X series?
I agree with where you're coming from, but if the game is set to be played according to the format, you play it. Until that time comes when these "useless" matches wont be required to play, players have to play it anyway. Naniwa went into a fit of rage.
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On December 15 2011 05:15 Kentakky wrote:
Koreans are robots without any emotion, they don't know what Naniwa went through being so close to kill leenock and the others etc and then he had to play a final game didn't matter so he just proberushed there's no bad manner in that at all.
I'm not gonna watch GSL ever again, I won't kill eSports since I enjoy Dreamhacks and MLGs more anyway and I like Dota2 as well so I'll keep watching those but for koreans and GOM etc I've lost all respect what a bunch of whiny sissys.
Nice generalizations. Keep it up
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On December 15 2011 05:15 Kentakky wrote:
Koreans are robots without any emotion, they don't know what Naniwa went through being so close to kill leenock and the others etc and then he had to play a final game didn't matter so he just proberushed there's no bad manner in that at all.
I'm not gonna watch GSL ever again, I won't kill eSports since I enjoy Dreamhacks and MLGs more anyway and I like Dota2 as well so I'll keep watching those but for koreans and GOM etc I've lost all respect what a bunch of whiny sissys.
Naniwa isn't the only one to lose in the finals, Korean's aren't robots, Marineking has lost every final match in the GSL and he still plays his heart out.
Marineking might as well forfeit every match he has against MVP since he always loses anyway, it's a meaningless match up right?
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On December 15 2011 05:16 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:14 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2011 05:11 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:
[quote]
He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants.
on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season. Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that? Yes... they are going to deny MVP eligibility because they don't like him... Lol, the chaos some people must be feeling right now. Their whole world is out of order because Naniwa got uninvited for unprofessional conduct. It's madness I tell you. How can I make you understand, its not NaNiwa I care about. It's the precedent that is being set for the way future players may be treated. Stop trying to make it about NaNiwa. This is about GOM and how they are handling a situation, not NaNiwa So professional players will be deterred from throwing their games. What's your point? Are you slowly realizing you're getting your panties in a bunch for no reason?
Thanks for the personal attack, but no I do have a very valid reason. Right now you can argue its so they deter players from throwing games sure. A very good thing to do. But by stepping over the line like this, by booting a player who hasn't violated any rules, you set the precedent to do the same again, only for a different reason.
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On December 15 2011 05:17 Deathmanbob wrote:
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
so thats the rule... lets look at other things that have been in violation of this rule without ANY punishment from gom
Idra vs jinro on jungle basin- Idra 6 pools and pulls drones vs a terran! this should never work, the chances are so damn slim but he still did it. He also stated that he did this because he felt that zerg had no chance on that map late game so he just was not going to play it out. I dont know about you but this feeling of im just not going to play this map can be offensive to the audience .
Bomber- almost any game ever, manner mules and scans piss players off. I know i HATE people who drop these things on me in game, its insulting and shouldn't be there
Loseria- In the GSTL when he danced his lings, then bomber later goes and dances his marines. You want to tell me that's not a diss? that under this rule if you are going to apply it like law both of these players shouldn't of been kicked out?
These are just three examples of many insults/diss/unprofessional play that has been in the GSL without the slightest hint of a punishment.
Now let me be clear I dont think ANY of these things deserve any action But if Gom is going to use a rule like that to punish a player you can not do it subjectively. You cant go oh this action was more insulting then that one, all insulting behavior has to be punished.
Should nani be punished? OF COURSE! He didnt play his best, he just gave up and thats not fun at all to see. Should he lose Code S? HELL NO! Should this rule be used subjectively just when gom feels like they have been insulted? not at all
how else would they punish naniwa?
they can't not pay him for the tournament as that would be illegal
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Naniwa on Khaldors stream
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On December 15 2011 05:15 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:14 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2011 05:11 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season. Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that? Yes... they are going to deny MVP eligibility because they don't like him... Lol, the chaos some people must be feeling right now. Their whole world is out of order because Naniwa got uninvited for unprofessional conduct. It's madness I tell you. How can I make you understand, its not NaNiwa I care about. It's the precedent that is being set for the way future players may be treated. Stop trying to make it about NaNiwa. This is about GOM and how they are handling a situation, not NaNiwa
We understand. And you are still wrong. The precedent they are setting for future players is consistent with other professional sports and past years of SC2 and SC. Display a poor attitude and disrespect the competitive nature of the sport and you will be punished. I don't see how much clearer I and other posters can make it for you. This is my last attempt.
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This is just a clash of cultures basically. In the western world, this thing has really been blown out of proportion, and most people in the US and Europe really don't care about what he did (some might have found it cool or funny or whatever). However, it really doesn't surprise me that it is a big deal in Korea, even without being an "expert" on their culture. Remember KeSPA anyone? They take away points from your team if you don't type "gg" right - and that is really retarded, we all agree on that. But what Naniwa did is a lot worse than not typing "gg" or typing just "g" or whatever so the fact that there are consequences isn't at all surprising.
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On December 15 2011 05:15 Kentakky wrote:
Koreans are robots without any emotion, they don't know what Naniwa went through being so close to kill leenock and the others etc and then he had to play a final game didn't matter so he just proberushed there's no bad manner in that at all.
I'm not gonna watch GSL ever again, I won't kill eSports since I enjoy Dreamhacks and MLGs more anyway and I like Dota2 as well so I'll keep watching those but for koreans and GOM etc I've lost all respect what a bunch of whiny sissys.
Yeah you're right the Koreans don't show much emotion they should've walked up to Naniwas booth and bitchslapped him because honestly thats what he deserved as an equivalent of childish behavior.
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On December 15 2011 05:17 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:16 naut1c wrote:
have you ever seen a football team, last place in group, no more chance of advancing to playoffs, shoot owngoals on purpose?
you dont do that. its a professional sport. its an honour to play in such a great tournament, you dont joke with that.
your enemy deserves a chance to compete with you, if you play in such a competition. you offend your opponent if you just throw your game. you offend everyone, with a childish behaviour...
i really liked naniwas accomplishments so far, but he deserved this. Yes many professional sports teams DO do this. They do start losing because they have no more chance, because it secures them higher draft picks.
Name one? That has been proven? Even if teams are doing this, they do their due diligence and make it look like they're playing competitive games. On top of that, there is actually an incentive for them to lose (draft picks). What was Naniwa's incentive to throw that game? Shits and giggles? He threw it because he didn't care about anything besides his own placement in the tournament.
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On December 15 2011 05:19 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:16 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2011 05:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:14 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2011 05:11 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:
[quote]
Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season. Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that? Yes... they are going to deny MVP eligibility because they don't like him... Lol, the chaos some people must be feeling right now. Their whole world is out of order because Naniwa got uninvited for unprofessional conduct. It's madness I tell you. How can I make you understand, its not NaNiwa I care about. It's the precedent that is being set for the way future players may be treated. Stop trying to make it about NaNiwa. This is about GOM and how they are handling a situation, not NaNiwa So professional players will be deterred from throwing their games. What's your point? Are you slowly realizing you're getting your panties in a bunch for no reason? Thanks for the personal attack, but no I do have a very valid reason. Right now you can argue its so they deter players from throwing games sure. A very good thing to do. But by stepping over the line like this, by booting a player who hasn't violated any rules, you set the precedent to do the same again, only for a different reason.
rules don't always have to be violated
look at the world of law
rules are CREATED and MODIFIED because of a NEED
it's not like rules were created once thousands of years ago and we all abide by them
this is an ethics issue and naniwa slapped the koreans in the face
gomtv has the power to deny anyone of anything relating to THEIR tournament
they simply used a very bad rule to justify their actions
but really, they don't need any justification
at the end of the day they can do whatever they want
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I think the correct analogy is this:
You go to work, do the morning shift, and that afternoon there are no customers - so frankly the afternoon is meaningless. Your boss knows this as well as you do, but wants you to stay at work.
What you do:- Stay at work, but quietly surf the web when your boss isn't standing next to you, and in return he makes sure he doesn't catch you by accident.
What you DON'T do:- Jump up on a desk in front of your co-workers, and shout across the whole office "Hey, I know you told me to work this afternoon but since I don't see any point in being here, screw you I'm going home to watch the game!"
By jumping up, YOU take away his "reasonable" option, and YOU force him to pull out his "rulebook" option, because you basically gave him no way to do the reasonable thing without people losing respect for him and his authority.
This is even more important in a culture that values face and authority - and far-east cultures are exactly that.
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On December 15 2011 05:20 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:14 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2011 05:11 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:
[quote]
He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants.
on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season. Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that? Yes... they are going to deny MVP eligibility because they don't like him... Lol, the chaos some people must be feeling right now. Their whole world is out of order because Naniwa got uninvited for unprofessional conduct. It's madness I tell you. How can I make you understand, its not NaNiwa I care about. It's the precedent that is being set for the way future players may be treated. Stop trying to make it about NaNiwa. This is about GOM and how they are handling a situation, not NaNiwa We understand. And you are still wrong. The precedent they are setting for future players is consistent with other professional sports and past years of SC2 and SC. Display a poor attitude and disrespect the competitive nature of the sport and you will be punished. I don't see how much clearer I and other posters can make it for you. This is my last attempt.
I don't see that as the precedent being set. Many other players have violated that so called "rule" in a minor way, and have had no punishment against them. I see the precedent as if a player doesn't show respect to GOM in the way they want, then they will be punished and have an excuse made to justify their punishment.
There should be a new rule made and Naniwa should be warned, even punished in some way, not be entirely booted from the tournament.
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EPT
