|
While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
GOM is turning Korean player into emotionless players, we all saw it happen to BW-players.... Don't let GOM turn foreigners into stone-cold HUMAN AI...
it's a big shame that GOM is the evil itself by punnishing creative funny nonsense by the best foreigner, who actually THOUGHT it through...
GOM HURTS ESPORTS by HURTING FOREIGN GAME PERSONALITIES THEY DON"T GET,
we don't want GOM, we want gameplay with player personalities..
.after reading this forum i concluded everyone sadly agrees, this decision hurts, no gom for me for a while.
|
On December 15 2011 05:06 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. I love how you pull that snippet out of that quote and completely ignore the factual part. Naniwa didn't earn a Code S seed. He was in consideration for a Code S seed, and was subsequently removed from consideration for a Code S seed because they don't like his attitude. And I have to tell you, neither do I.
Seeing as it's the majority of the quote, I'd hardly call it "a little snippet". Be that as it may, before the format changes, his placement in MLG guaranteed him a code S spot did it not? I do believe that is earning a spot.
|
On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me.
Your sarcasm is racist whether you want it to be or not. They hold the largest portion of the game. If they don't want a player to be disrespectful they have EVERY right to remove them from their tourny.
|
I obviously haven't read all 272 pages of this thread but I wanted to give my two cents.
I think the punishment is a little harsh but not entirely unexpected. If I'm GOMTV, I don't want a player like that in my league. And you have to set an example: ultimately, the GSL is a business and a thrown match or a forfeit means less revenue from subscriptions and from ads. If they allow this behavior and it becomes a norm, it absolutely hurts them.
NaNiwa needs someone to sit him down and explain how to be successful in esports. As a programer, he's ultimately selling himself. Tournament success and results are important, obviously, but take a guy like Day[9] as an example. He doesn't even play SC2 professionally and he's probably one of the most successful people in the community. He's established himself as a brand. That's what NaNiwa needs to do.
|
On December 15 2011 05:07 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like. Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means. It wouldn't be the same thing. A football team leaving after being down 21-0, would be like Naniwa moving his probes then getting up and walking out of the booth. The situation is more comparable, to a football team playing their 3rd string after being down 21-0
No it's not at all. It's been mentioned a dozen times already. 3rd stringers still actually play. Nani A-moved, then sat back, relaxed, took his hand off the keyboard, and didn't even try to win. That is essentially walking off the field. It's not even close to 3rd stringers playing and trying to win.
|
I'm absolutely disgusted with GOM's decision, sure they may not agree with NaNiwas actions but I'm pretty certain that its obvious at this point that there was never any malicious intent in what NaNiwa did. Pretty danm sad to see such a deserving and hard working player get screwed over because of such an ill willed and over the top punishment.
How can they call NaNiwa "dishonorable" when they do something like this? Shame on them.
|
On December 15 2011 05:07 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like. Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means. It wouldn't be the same thing. A football team leaving after being down 21-0, would be like Naniwa moving his probes then getting up and walking out of the booth. The situation is more comparable, to a football team playing their 3rd string after being down 21-0
No it's not! There is a long-term incentive to playing your 3rd string when you can't win the game. It gets them valuable experience on the field they wouldn't get in a normal situation. Plus, those 3rd string players are trying their hardest out there. They probably lack the ability and won't win because they're already behind, but they're playing.
You're essentially saying that Naniwa probe rushed because he's trying to get better at probe rushing. It's retarded.
|
On December 15 2011 05:03 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On December 15 2011 04:49 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. I'm sorry but do you seriously not understand? It's not because we just want to see Naniwa but it's about not supporting an organization that makes these kind of decisions. Why not? Do you wish to see more players behaving like this in the next upcoming matches? For someone to do the exact same thing Naniwa did, knowing the consequences naniwa took, I myself would gladly ban that person from GSL along with the next players who follow in Naniwas footsteps. Why would you not support this decision? I'm one of few who thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did and if someone else does the same I won't mind then either. I'm not too big on everything being professional and anal but instead I prefer to see things as they are and with some common sense.
I agree with this, I really don't see the harm in what he did. He didn't have a chance of advancing so he didn't have motivation to play his best. I don't think it was wrong at all.
|
On December 15 2011 05:07 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like. Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means. It wouldn't be the same thing. A football team leaving after being down 21-0, would be like Naniwa moving his probes then getting up and walking out of the booth. The situation is more comparable, to a football team playing their 3rd string after being down 21-0
He a-moved his probes, took his hands off the keyboard, didnt micro and then GGs. What a stellar performance of determination by progamer naniwa. I seriously wish I could pull that one off as good as he did.
|
On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple.
The rules of the GSL League Exchange Programme clearly state that the #1 finisher of an MLG event will be given a Code S seed. To my knowledge, the rules did not change before nor during the occurance of this event.
He did "earn" it, moron. He wouldn't have been seeded under the rules in the first place if he did not place 2nd just barely behind a Code S player. And GOMTV can paint over the issue as much as they bloody well like and argue that they've "switched to the invite system and initially gave NaNiwa the invite because of his Providence finish", but the point stands. This was way too harsh a punishment by objective standards, and I actually do hope that GOMTV make a u-turn on it. There have already been somewhat wide calls for a boycott of the January season if not the entire tournament.
The harsh reality is that it's GOMTV's fault. They have no fully established rules on throwing games and have instead applied a draconian and quite frankly stupid interpretation to one of the existing rules to swipe his Code S spot from him.
Throwing a game is not considered "violent or abusive behaviour", and as for the 'offence' caused over this, it's the Korean idea that professional gamers should be honorable.
What GOMTV should have done is let NaNiwa keep his Code S spot but merely changed the rules. That would have been fair for everybody.
|
On December 15 2011 05:07 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like. Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means. It wouldn't be the same thing. A football team leaving after being down 21-0, would be like Naniwa moving his probes then getting up and walking out of the booth. The situation is more comparable, to a football team playing their 3rd string after being down 21-0
Not at all the same. 3rd string is still playing, probe rushing is not playing at all. He clicked his mouse maybe 3 times that game. Until Naniwa acts like a professional why should professional tournaments invite him?
|
On December 15 2011 04:59 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:52 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. You think playing 3rd string players is trying to win? Trying to win would be playing 1st stringers every game, whether it matters or not. To give the fans a good showing, and to be respectful to the other team. Does this sound familiar? Not sure why people are trying to draw parallels to other sports. It doesn't work. In your example: For teams that have already made the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they don't want their starters to get hurt, and so they can rest up for the games that "matter." This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he doesn't want to get carpal tunnel. Obviously not the case. For teams that have already been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they want their backups to get experience. This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he really wants to get good at probe rushing but doesn't want to use it in a game that "matters." Neither of those analogies work for this case. Naniwa did a garbage strategy, that won't work, ever, and completely gave up in a game he could have won if he played it to its entirety. That is match-fixing, and is punishable by GOM.
and what about the situation of a team loosing intentionally from the beginning of the season to get the first pick of the draft such as the colts this season?
|
On December 15 2011 05:08 Mithriel wrote:
I was contemplating getting a full year subscription yesterday to be able to watch the vods of Blizzcup and be settled for 2012 GSL matches. I'm happy i waited with ordering it a bit until i heard this news, and i wont be getting it either now (Probably not at all anymore).
I respectfully disagree with the standpoint GOMTv took in this situation. I'm at no means an Naniwa fan (not at all actually), i just think this punishment sets a wrong example and is overly harsh. I respect GOMTvs standpoint too because its their league and they can do whatever pleases them.
However, i think the game should have never been played (like the last games i up/down matches would not be played, eg. group C october GSL). Naniwa felt bad about not showing his a game and couldnt motivate for a game with nothing on the line, the match wouldn't have been fun even played a normal game because the drive aint there.
So for now i am done with GSL.
Lol, I love how you're looking at this like there was some major ethical violation that took place. So overly dramatic.
|
On December 15 2011 05:07 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like. Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means. It wouldn't be the same thing. A football team leaving after being down 21-0, would be like Naniwa moving his probes then getting up and walking out of the booth. The situation is more comparable, to a football team playing their 3rd string after being down 21-0
the situation is comparable to a football team being down 21-0 in the first quarter
and then coming back in the second quarter with no formation, and just having a bunch of overweight men stand in the field
not trying to score
not trying to defend
but just standing there
that's more comparable to what naniwa did
as i said before, he 'a-moved' his probes and that's it
matter of fact even comparing that to a football team playing for 1/4 of the game is way too much
it's more like a football team played for ONE play, and then sat in the middle of the field while doing nothing
|
As much as i read this thread i think the reason is the same..people is butthurt. They are mad because they wanted to watch an epic but they got a shitty game for a meaningless match. They act like players are their bitches, just because they paid to watch a tournament the players should do whatever it takes for entertain them...just disgusting.
I really dont think that Naniwa's actions make GOM looks bad, i think Naniwa's actions make Naniwa looks bad. What it really makes GOM looks bad is their shitty tournament format.
GOM needed to do something for Naniwa's actions but the punishment is too much. And the "rule" GOM is basing his reasons is so trivial, they can give it the interpretation they want and this is sooo dangerous.
|
On December 15 2011 05:10 whereyouat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:07 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like. Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means. It wouldn't be the same thing. A football team leaving after being down 21-0, would be like Naniwa moving his probes then getting up and walking out of the booth. The situation is more comparable, to a football team playing their 3rd string after being down 21-0 He a-moved his probes, took his hands off the keyboard, didnt micro and then GGs. What a stellar performance of determination by progamer naniwa. I seriously wish I could pull that one off as good as he did.
I'll set up a contract and you will be the first guy on my proteam!
|
On December 15 2011 05:08 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:06 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. I love how you pull that snippet out of that quote and completely ignore the factual part. Naniwa didn't earn a Code S seed. He was in consideration for a Code S seed, and was subsequently removed from consideration for a Code S seed because they don't like his attitude. And I have to tell you, neither do I. Seeing as it's the majority of the quote, I'd hardly call it "a little snippet". Be that as it may, before the format changes, his placement in MLG guaranteed him a code S spot did it not? I do believe that is earning a spot.
No Code S spots were awarded for placement at MLG Providence. In the new GSL system, 2 foreigners are given seeds completely at GOM's whim. With that knowledge, I'm not sure why any foreigner living in Korea trying to qualify for the GSL would go out of their way to piss off GOMTV. He obviously wasn't thinking.
|
On December 15 2011 05:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season.
Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that?
|
On December 15 2011 05:10 MiXyass wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:07 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like. Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means. It wouldn't be the same thing. A football team leaving after being down 21-0, would be like Naniwa moving his probes then getting up and walking out of the booth. The situation is more comparable, to a football team playing their 3rd string after being down 21-0 the situation is comparable to a football team being down 21-0 in the first quarter and then coming back in the second quarter with no formation, and just having a bunch of overweight men stand in the field not trying to score not trying to defend but just standing there that's more comparable to what naniwa did as i said before, he 'a-moved' his probes and that's it matter of fact even comparing that to a football team playing for 1/4 of the game is way too much it's more like a football team played for ONE play, and then sat in the middle of the field while doing nothing
This is a good analogy. Enters the game and stands there doing nothing.
|
On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me.
Twist people's words more why don't you? I didn't say anything about Koreans and Westerners. Being invited to play in GOMtv's tournaments are a privilege. Most professional players will never have that opportunity and it is an opportunity that he was awarded by GOM and they paid for him to play. He squandered that opportunity when he displayed a completely unprofessional and undesirable attitude. GOM has every right to disallow him from competing in their tournaments. If a korean player did the same you better bet your ass they would face the same punishment and probably even more from their team. And you don't know anything about me or my attitude so don't get so mad bro, ok?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
