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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 05:09 GreEny K wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:03 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On December 15 2011 04:49 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. I'm sorry but do you seriously not understand? It's not because we just want to see Naniwa but it's about not supporting an organization that makes these kind of decisions. Why not? Do you wish to see more players behaving like this in the next upcoming matches? For someone to do the exact same thing Naniwa did, knowing the consequences naniwa took, I myself would gladly ban that person from GSL along with the next players who follow in Naniwas footsteps. Why would you not support this decision? I'm one of few who thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did and if someone else does the same I won't mind then either. I'm not too big on everything being professional and anal but instead I prefer to see things as they are and with some common sense. I agree with this, I really don't see the harm in what he did. He didn't have a chance of advancing so he didn't have motivation to play his best. I don't think it was wrong at all.
And thats the difference between him and other true progamers. Handle the stuff that is thrown at you no matter what. I seriously can't believe the foreigners support giving up. That is exactly what this entails. Why do we support the notion of giving up in a professional scene? Does that not irk anyone?
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On December 15 2011 05:05 Stratos_speAr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:03 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On December 15 2011 04:49 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. I'm sorry but do you seriously not understand? It's not because we just want to see Naniwa but it's about not supporting an organization that makes these kind of decisions. Why not? Do you wish to see more players behaving like this in the next upcoming matches? For someone to do the exact same thing Naniwa did, knowing the consequences naniwa took, I myself would gladly ban that person from GSL along with the next players who follow in Naniwas footsteps. Why would you not support this decision? I'm one of few who thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did and if someone else does the same I won't mind then either. I'm not too big on everything being professional and anal but instead I prefer to see things as they are and with some common sense. Except that there are very good reasons for things being done in a professional manner. In this case, there's an obvious one - say I paid to see this event. I really wanted to see Naniwa vs. Nestea. That's the main reason I paid to see this event. It's incredibly disrespectful and unprofessional of Naniwa to do something like this when I many people pay to see certain events so they can see certain matches. This is why there are rules against things like this.
But the tournament was set up so that when the game was to be played both naniwa and nestea were huge losers, they both underperformed all day and the game wouldn't have said anything on who is the better player. They were broken sad and tilted, I can't understand why anyone would want to see them play at that point.
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On December 15 2011 05:10 dude_2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:59 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. You think playing 3rd string players is trying to win? Trying to win would be playing 1st stringers every game, whether it matters or not. To give the fans a good showing, and to be respectful to the other team. Does this sound familiar? Not sure why people are trying to draw parallels to other sports. It doesn't work. In your example: For teams that have already made the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they don't want their starters to get hurt, and so they can rest up for the games that "matter." This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he doesn't want to get carpal tunnel. Obviously not the case. For teams that have already been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they want their backups to get experience. This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he really wants to get good at probe rushing but doesn't want to use it in a game that "matters." Neither of those analogies work for this case. Naniwa did a garbage strategy, that won't work, ever, and completely gave up in a game he could have won if he played it to its entirety. That is match-fixing, and is punishable by GOM. and what about the situation of a team loosing intentionally from the beginning of the season to get the first pick of the draft such as the colts this season?
Do you have any proof whatsoever that shows that the Colts players are actually taking deliberate steps on the field to stop themselves from winning the game? Because last I checked, the Colts were just a terrible football team.
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On December 15 2011 05:10 dude_2 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:59 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. You think playing 3rd string players is trying to win? Trying to win would be playing 1st stringers every game, whether it matters or not. To give the fans a good showing, and to be respectful to the other team. Does this sound familiar? Not sure why people are trying to draw parallels to other sports. It doesn't work. In your example: For teams that have already made the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they don't want their starters to get hurt, and so they can rest up for the games that "matter." This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he doesn't want to get carpal tunnel. Obviously not the case. For teams that have already been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they want their backups to get experience. This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he really wants to get good at probe rushing but doesn't want to use it in a game that "matters." Neither of those analogies work for this case. Naniwa did a garbage strategy, that won't work, ever, and completely gave up in a game he could have won if he played it to its entirety. That is match-fixing, and is punishable by GOM. and what about the situation of a team loosing intentionally from the beginning of the season to get the first pick of the draft such as the colts this season?
Anyone who says the Colts are losing intentionally from the beginning of the season obviously hasn't been watching the Colts. Do you even follow American Football? While they obviously have little to play for now, they're still playing. They really are just that bad.
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On December 15 2011 05:11 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season. Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that?
Yes... they are going to deny MVP eligibility because they don't like him...
Lol, the chaos some people must be feeling right now. Their whole world is out of order because Naniwa got uninvited for unprofessional conduct. It's madness I tell you.
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On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe.
We are not buying the year pass, only because we wanted to see naniwa in Code S. We (or atleast me) don't buy the year pass because of how they are handling this case, like making up new definitions of "pro-gaming" and using rules pretty much like they want. Players and fans feel offended all the time by actions players do in the GSL-matches, but nani is the first one who got "punished" for it and a proberush is not abusive. They throw a pretty bad format at us and let a player take all the blame for their mess. I watched the GSL because I want to see the best players duke it out for the title, I am not interested in paying for forced showmatches and some of the best duke it out for a title. And nowadays they are inviting players randomly to code S (Idra+Sen), kk Idra won some tourney in september or so and Sen got third at Blizzcon, but with the same reasoning they could have invited Xigua, Nerchio, Puma, Sase, Stephano etc.
Not to mention BO1s in groupstage are a joke, especially when you try to determine who is the better player between 10 of the best players in the world.
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On December 15 2011 05:13 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:10 dude_2 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:59 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. You think playing 3rd string players is trying to win? Trying to win would be playing 1st stringers every game, whether it matters or not. To give the fans a good showing, and to be respectful to the other team. Does this sound familiar? Not sure why people are trying to draw parallels to other sports. It doesn't work. In your example: For teams that have already made the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they don't want their starters to get hurt, and so they can rest up for the games that "matter." This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he doesn't want to get carpal tunnel. Obviously not the case. For teams that have already been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they want their backups to get experience. This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he really wants to get good at probe rushing but doesn't want to use it in a game that "matters." Neither of those analogies work for this case. Naniwa did a garbage strategy, that won't work, ever, and completely gave up in a game he could have won if he played it to its entirety. That is match-fixing, and is punishable by GOM. and what about the situation of a team loosing intentionally from the beginning of the season to get the first pick of the draft such as the colts this season? Anyone who says the Colts are losing intentionally from the beginning of the season obviously hasn't been watching the Colts. Do you even follow American Football? While they obviously have little to play for now, they're still playing. They really are just that bad.
They still have enough talent to win at least 1 game. But they haven't. Are you sure you're watching the games?
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On December 15 2011 05:14 Nagano wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:11 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season. Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that? Yes... they are going to deny MVP eligibility because they don't like him... Lol, the chaos some people must be feeling right now. Their whole world is out of order because Naniwa got uninvited for unprofessional conduct. It's madness I tell you.
How can I make you understand, its not NaNiwa I care about. It's the precedent that is being set for the way future players may be treated. Stop trying to make it about NaNiwa. This is about GOM and how they are handling a situation, not NaNiwa
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On December 15 2011 05:13 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:05 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:03 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On December 15 2011 04:49 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. I'm sorry but do you seriously not understand? It's not because we just want to see Naniwa but it's about not supporting an organization that makes these kind of decisions. Why not? Do you wish to see more players behaving like this in the next upcoming matches? For someone to do the exact same thing Naniwa did, knowing the consequences naniwa took, I myself would gladly ban that person from GSL along with the next players who follow in Naniwas footsteps. Why would you not support this decision? I'm one of few who thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did and if someone else does the same I won't mind then either. I'm not too big on everything being professional and anal but instead I prefer to see things as they are and with some common sense. Except that there are very good reasons for things being done in a professional manner. In this case, there's an obvious one - say I paid to see this event. I really wanted to see Naniwa vs. Nestea. That's the main reason I paid to see this event. It's incredibly disrespectful and unprofessional of Naniwa to do something like this when I many people pay to see certain events so they can see certain matches. This is why there are rules against things like this. But the tournament was set up so that when the game was to be played both naniwa and nestea were huge losers, they both underperformed all day and the game wouldn't have said anything on who is the better player. They were broken sad and tilted, I can't understand why anyone would want to see them play at that point.
If Nestea can suck it up and try to play a good game why can't Naniwa?
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Koreans are robots without any emotion, they don't know what Naniwa went through being so close to kill leenock and the others etc and then he had to play a final game didn't matter so he just proberushed there's no bad manner in that at all.
I'm not gonna watch GSL ever again, I won't kill eSports since I enjoy Dreamhacks and MLGs more anyway and I like Dota2 as well so I'll keep watching those but for koreans and GOM etc I've lost all respect what a bunch of whiny sissys.
User was temp banned for this post.
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On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me.
You might be the dumbest person ever. Koreans are better players and host the most prestigious tournament in the world. They have the best players, the best tourneye, etc. Their finals have live performance and most of all they have pride.
Naniwa bypassed many players who have worked their asses off to get into code S (Oz, Curious, etc) because of an agreement made my two organizations in a tournament that had much more foreigners than koreans. So yes, it is a privilege to play in Korea and be invited to play.
@Kentakky, what a fairweather fan. You're no fan of eSports if you don't wanna watch the best games and actively support players who have their heads up their asses.
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On December 15 2011 05:14 4of8 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. We are not buying the year pass, only because we wanted to see naniwa in Code S. We (or atleast me) don't buy the year pass because of how they are handling this case, like making up new definitions of "pro-gaming" and using rules pretty much like they want. Players and fans feel offended all the time by actions players do in the GSL-matches, but nani is the first one who got "punished" for it and a proberush is not abusive. They throw a pretty bad format at us and let a player take all the blame for their mess. I watched the GSL because I want to see the best players duke it out for the title, I am not interested in paying for forced showmatches and some of the best duke it out for a title. And nowadays they are inviting players randomly to code S (Idra+Sen), kk Idra won some tourney in september or so and Sen got third at Blizzcon, but with the same reasoning they could have invited Xigua, Nerchio, Puma, Sase, Stephano etc. Not to mention BO1s in groupstage are a joke, especially when you try to determine who is the better player between 10 of the best players in the world.
I never knew the definition of anything involving professional entails GIVING UP because boohoo my emotions are running low.
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nooo that sucks 
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On December 15 2011 05:14 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:13 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 05:10 dude_2 wrote:On December 15 2011 04:59 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. You think playing 3rd string players is trying to win? Trying to win would be playing 1st stringers every game, whether it matters or not. To give the fans a good showing, and to be respectful to the other team. Does this sound familiar? Not sure why people are trying to draw parallels to other sports. It doesn't work. In your example: For teams that have already made the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they don't want their starters to get hurt, and so they can rest up for the games that "matter." This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he doesn't want to get carpal tunnel. Obviously not the case. For teams that have already been mathematically eliminated from the playoffs, they play 3rd stringers because they want their backups to get experience. This would be like Naniwa probe rushing because he really wants to get good at probe rushing but doesn't want to use it in a game that "matters." Neither of those analogies work for this case. Naniwa did a garbage strategy, that won't work, ever, and completely gave up in a game he could have won if he played it to its entirety. That is match-fixing, and is punishable by GOM. and what about the situation of a team loosing intentionally from the beginning of the season to get the first pick of the draft such as the colts this season? Anyone who says the Colts are losing intentionally from the beginning of the season obviously hasn't been watching the Colts. Do you even follow American Football? While they obviously have little to play for now, they're still playing. They really are just that bad. They still have enough talent to win at least 1 game. But they haven't. Are you sure you're watching the games?
Just because a team or a player has the talent to do something, doesn't mean that they execute things properly
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have you ever seen a football team, last place in group, no more chance of advancing to playoffs, shoot owngoals on purpose?
you dont do that. its a professional sport. its an honour to play in such a great tournament, you dont joke with that.
your enemy deserves a chance to compete with you, if you play in such a competition. you offend your opponent if you just throw your game. you offend everyone, with a childish behaviour...
i really liked naniwas accomplishments so far, but he deserved this.
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On December 15 2011 05:15 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:13 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 05:05 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:03 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On December 15 2011 04:49 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. I'm sorry but do you seriously not understand? It's not because we just want to see Naniwa but it's about not supporting an organization that makes these kind of decisions. Why not? Do you wish to see more players behaving like this in the next upcoming matches? For someone to do the exact same thing Naniwa did, knowing the consequences naniwa took, I myself would gladly ban that person from GSL along with the next players who follow in Naniwas footsteps. Why would you not support this decision? I'm one of few who thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did and if someone else does the same I won't mind then either. I'm not too big on everything being professional and anal but instead I prefer to see things as they are and with some common sense. Except that there are very good reasons for things being done in a professional manner. In this case, there's an obvious one - say I paid to see this event. I really wanted to see Naniwa vs. Nestea. That's the main reason I paid to see this event. It's incredibly disrespectful and unprofessional of Naniwa to do something like this when I many people pay to see certain events so they can see certain matches. This is why there are rules against things like this. But the tournament was set up so that when the game was to be played both naniwa and nestea were huge losers, they both underperformed all day and the game wouldn't have said anything on who is the better player. They were broken sad and tilted, I can't understand why anyone would want to see them play at that point. If Nestea can suck it up and try to play a good game why can't Naniwa?
You think he'd play to his true potential lol?
Also he is robot korean they have no emotions so they don't know what it must feel like being so close to winning all those games then having to play a game that doesn't matter.
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On December 15 2011 05:15 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:14 Nagano wrote:On December 15 2011 05:11 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:08 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season. Then the quote should've been phrased as such. As it stands, it is says that playing in Korean is a privilege, as if somehow you don't have an equal right as a player to play where you wish. And you can argue that its within their right to revoke someone's eligibility, but I argue that if that's the case there needs to be a firm base with clearly established rules for doing so. As it stands right now, it seems to me they can kick a player out just because they don't like him. They could deny MVP eligibility. Would anybody just agree with that? Yes... they are going to deny MVP eligibility because they don't like him... Lol, the chaos some people must be feeling right now. Their whole world is out of order because Naniwa got uninvited for unprofessional conduct. It's madness I tell you. How can I make you understand, its not NaNiwa I care about. It's the precedent that is being set for the way future players may be treated. Stop trying to make it about NaNiwa. This is about GOM and how they are handling a situation, not NaNiwa
So professional players will be deterred from throwing their games. What's your point?
Are you slowly realizing you're getting your panties in a bunch for no reason?
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On December 15 2011 05:11 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:08 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:06 ZasZ. wrote:On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me. I love how you pull that snippet out of that quote and completely ignore the factual part. Naniwa didn't earn a Code S seed. He was in consideration for a Code S seed, and was subsequently removed from consideration for a Code S seed because they don't like his attitude. And I have to tell you, neither do I. Seeing as it's the majority of the quote, I'd hardly call it "a little snippet". Be that as it may, before the format changes, his placement in MLG guaranteed him a code S spot did it not? I do believe that is earning a spot. No Code S spots were awarded for placement at MLG Providence. In the new GSL system, 2 foreigners are given seeds completely at GOM's whim. With that knowledge, I'm not sure why any foreigner living in Korea trying to qualify for the GSL would go out of their way to piss off GOMTV. He obviously wasn't thinking.
Either GOMTV are lying about this specific point or this is a change to the league exchange programme that MLG have not clarified when Providence happened. I heard nothing about a change to the GSL 2012 season or how they allocate leaghe exchange seeds before Providence.
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As I mentioned in the closed thread:
Jjakji defeated Leenock 4-2, rendering the 7th game meaningless. Why doesn't GSL make them play the 7th game? It could just as easily be argued that we paid for a best-of-seven (e.g. IdrA v. F91), not a first-to-four.
Why doesn't GSL play out all its best-of-X series?
EDIT: Removed unnecessary quote.
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On December 15 2011 05:16 naut1c wrote:
have you ever seen a football team, last place in group, no more chance of advancing to playoffs, shoot owngoals on purpose?
you dont do that. its a professional sport. its an honour to play in such a great tournament, you dont joke with that.
your enemy deserves a chance to compete with you, if you play in such a competition. you offend your opponent if you just throw your game. you offend everyone, with a childish behaviour...
i really liked naniwas accomplishments so far, but he deserved this.
Yes many professional sports teams DO do this. They do start losing because they have no more chance, because it secures them higher draft picks.
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EPT
