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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 05:00 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:58 hunts wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:53 hunts wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 Krymming wrote:
Pretty silly to punish someone who didn't break any rules.
But that's just my opinion It is pretty silly to punish someone who didn't break any rules, you are right. Good thing GOMtv has a set of rules, one of which naniwa DID break, thereby earning his code S revocation. What if GOM had a rule stating "if we don't like the color shoes you are wearing, you will be banned" Would that be legitimate? The are interpreting a rule that was meant to apply to situations like in game abusive language, and ridiculous ceremonies, etc...and apply it to a situation which it Doesn't fit at all. You're using a strawman argument now, please stop. The bottom line is he broke the rules, he got the punishment. All you people trying to defend him sound like little kids trying to get out of detention with silly analogies. Yes they probably didn't cite the best rule, but if you honestly think that intentionally throwing games isn't against the rules then you are sorely misinformed. Show me where he broke the rules. Demonstrate to me how what he did broke the rules. If you can do that I will no longer defend him as there would be no need. I want to see actual rule breaking, not a broad, huge interpretation of a rule that clearly was intended to apply to something else and does not apply to the situation at hand.
Well first off gom paid him to attend that tournament, this included playing out every game. He failed to do so, because he intentionally threw his last game. As the rule states, his behavior was abusive and disrespectful because he deprived the casters, the tournament organizers his opponent and all the viewers of a game, a game he was paid to play. Now obviously you won't stop defending him, you'll make another awful strawman argument to try to defend him anyway. But go right ahead, your complaining won't change the fact that his punishment will stand.
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On December 15 2011 05:00 Timerly wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:58 hunts wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:53 hunts wrote:On December 15 2011 04:52 Krymming wrote:
Pretty silly to punish someone who didn't break any rules.
But that's just my opinion It is pretty silly to punish someone who didn't break any rules, you are right. Good thing GOMtv has a set of rules, one of which naniwa DID break, thereby earning his code S revocation. What if GOM had a rule stating "if we don't like the color shoes you are wearing, you will be banned" Would that be legitimate? The are interpreting a rule that was meant to apply to situations like in game abusive language, and ridiculous ceremonies, etc...and apply it to a situation which it Doesn't fit at all. You're using a strawman argument now, please stop. The bottom line is he broke the rules, he got the punishment. All you people trying to defend him sound like little kids trying to get out of detention with silly analogies. Yes they probably didn't cite the best rule, but if you honestly think that intentionally throwing games isn't against the rules then you are sorely misinformed. Well then quote the rule if it's in the rules if you're so much better informed. It's not against the rules if the rules don't say much about it. Yes, it was wrong. Is Gom overreacting? Probably. Are people who apply logic and pure logic instead of some moral standards less equal? I doubt it.
Match throwing/Match-fixing. I don't think we need to even discuss these rules if you've ever paid attention to Brood War.
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On December 15 2011 04:59 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Why are you getting so pissed off? naniwa played the game. The game started, the game finished...Someone won, and someone lost...It's all the same. Especially since him losing this game didn't affect anything what so ever. I wouldn't have even played the game. What's the point? Clearly there was a flaw in the system. Blame the system, not the player.
I don't get this argument. Naniwa is being paid by GOM (and his sponsors/team) to participate in this tournament. That means he plays in all the games associated with that tournament, until he is eliminated or is victorious. Regardless of what his record was within his group, he wasn't eliminated yet when his match with NesTea came up.
Did he have less to play for? Of course. But he's a "professional" SC2 player and should honor his commitments. Then, he can go to somebody at GOM and tell them how pointless it was to play that game and he thinks the system should be changed.
It's not his job to reveal flaws in GOM's format. It's his job to play Starcraft games to the best of his ability. He should let his team/managers or whatever handle the public statements.
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On December 15 2011 04:56 Avril_Lavigne wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:49 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. I'm sorry but do you seriously not understand? It's not because we just want to see Naniwa but it's about not supporting an organization that makes these kind of decisions. Why not? Do you wish to see more players behaving like this in the next upcoming matches? For someone to do the exact same thing Naniwa did, knowing the consequences naniwa took, I myself would gladly ban that person from GSL along with the next players who follow in Naniwas footsteps. Why would you not support this decision?
I'm one of few who thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did and if someone else does the same I won't mind then either. I'm not too big on everything being professional and anal but instead I prefer to see things as they are and with some common sense.
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On December 15 2011 05:01 Velr wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:59 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Why are you getting so pissed off? naniwa played the game. The game started, the game finished...Someone won, and someone lost...It's all the same. Especially since him losing this game didn't affect anything what so ever. I wouldn't have even played the game. What's the point? Clearly there was a flaw in the system. Blame the system, not the player. A professional Tennis player enters the court: He only does double faults when he has service by hitting the ball into funny directions. He only does handstands when he should be returning. Did he play the game? Theoretically yes. Would he get punished? He probably would never ever again set a foot on a professional tennis court. The thing is, the game wouldn't; have ever happened. At this point it's a show match...It means nothing. To me, you can do whatever you want if it means nothing. It's a pickup game.
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On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here.
Nope, Gomtv has something Naniwa does not have and that is pride. Gomtv has every right to do what they did, having a player come in and show disrespect to the viewers, casters, production crew, sponsers, his team. Im surprised hes even allowed back into the GSl through code A. A public figure like that shouldnt be welcomed into a community that upholds quality professionalism when on camera and in the spotlight. Whatever he does as Johan off camera is his deal, but when you enter as PROGAMER NANIWA, you uphold the title progamer and show you truly are the professional you claim to be. Win or lose play it out and keep you head held high.
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I"m gonna vote with my eyeballs on this one.
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On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple.
Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior.
Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me.
User was warned for this post
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On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it
A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like.
Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means.
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On December 15 2011 05:03 pezit wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 Avril_Lavigne wrote:On December 15 2011 04:49 pezit wrote:On December 15 2011 04:42 Vasily17 wrote:
For all the people who are saying there not going to buy the year pass for GSL because of this are ridiculous. if your were going to buy a year full of game because of one player who at any point can be knocked down to code B in one season is silly. and also he could make back in to code S by next season cause he still has a code A spot i believe. I'm sorry but do you seriously not understand? It's not because we just want to see Naniwa but it's about not supporting an organization that makes these kind of decisions. Why not? Do you wish to see more players behaving like this in the next upcoming matches? For someone to do the exact same thing Naniwa did, knowing the consequences naniwa took, I myself would gladly ban that person from GSL along with the next players who follow in Naniwas footsteps. Why would you not support this decision? I'm one of few who thinks there was nothing wrong with what he did and if someone else does the same I won't mind then either. I'm not too big on everything being professional and anal but instead I prefer to see things as they are and with some common sense.
Except that there are very good reasons for things being done in a professional manner. In this case, there's an obvious one - say I paid to see this event. I really wanted to see Naniwa vs. Nestea. That's the main reason I paid to see this event. It's incredibly disrespectful and unprofessional of Naniwa to do something like this when I many people pay to see certain events so they can see certain matches. This is why there are rules against things like this.
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On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me.
I love how you pull that snippet out of that quote and completely ignore the factual part. Naniwa didn't earn a Code S seed. He was in consideration for a Code S seed, and was subsequently removed from consideration for a Code S seed because they don't like his attitude. And I have to tell you, neither do I.
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Extremely unprofessional and inappropriate response from GSL. Not buying a season pass.
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well i dont get this.
anyone remember nal_ra's proberushes? even kespa didnt see this as disrespectfull.
And about throwing matches;: they invite the guy (idra) that throw every placementmatches in MLG?
i dont really get it at all 
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On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it
Naniwa a-moved his initial probes, while the backup team played to win, regardless if they had the ability to win or not
do you see a difference? It's about the INPUT, and not the OUTPUT
Naniwa trivialized the meaning of the tournament for some people out there and slapped a lot of koreans in the face, including nestea and gomtv
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On December 15 2011 05:04 ranshaked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:01 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:59 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Why are you getting so pissed off? naniwa played the game. The game started, the game finished...Someone won, and someone lost...It's all the same. Especially since him losing this game didn't affect anything what so ever. I wouldn't have even played the game. What's the point? Clearly there was a flaw in the system. Blame the system, not the player. A professional Tennis player enters the court: He only does double faults when he has service by hitting the ball into funny directions. He only does handstands when he should be returning. Did he play the game? Theoretically yes. Would he get punished? He probably would never ever again set a foot on a professional tennis court. The thing is, the game wouldn't; have ever happened. At this point it's a show match...It means nothing. To me, you can do whatever you want if it means nothing. It's a pickup game.
Well, no one gives a fuck about your toughts on games that mean something or not.
If you get paid to play a good game of Tennis or Starcraft and show up and only do bullshit you get punished. Naniwa did not even deliver a showmatch, he just played a giant "fuck you" to everyone involved.
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On December 15 2011 05:05 Necro)Phagist( wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 04:58 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:56 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:54 ranshaked wrote:On December 15 2011 04:50 Stratos_speAr wrote:On December 15 2011 04:46 ranshaked wrote:
How is this situation any different than a professional sports team sitting their best players before the playoffs? Or when a game is blown out and the left fielder comes in to pitch...
It was a useless game, and all sports have them. Read the thread. It's completely different because even if you use 3rd string players in a pointless game, you're still playing the fucking game and trying to win. Naniwa was essentially not playing the game at all, or, if you want to be 100% technical and say that he was physically playing the game, he threw it, which is comparable to match-fixing. And you could say last year when the patriots i believe didn't start their A team against a team that was vowing for a playoff spot. If the patriots had played their best team, then the other team would have lost and never gotten into the playoffs. Or in baseball when the #1 team plays a playoff contender, but chooses to rest their players because they've clinched the seed...meanwhile they throw the game with their 3rd string players and let the opposing team have an easy win. Naniwa did this in ONE game out of how many? This happens all the time in sports.
THOSE TEAMS STILL PLAYED THE FUCKING GAME THAT THEY WERE SCHEDULED TO PLAY. THEY DIDN'T JUST WALK OFF THE FIELD.Fuck people, read the thread. Naniwa still played the game. He showed up and ordered his units. Stop arguing this point. It would be different if he wasn't in the booth sitting down playing the game. But he did show up and choose to play the game in a horrible way. But still played it A moving your probes to your opponents base IS NOT playing the game. that would be like a football team leaving after the 1st quarter because they were down 21-0. Naniwa was beign a little whiny baby, showed disrespect to GOM to Nestea to Fans and casters a like. Why would you use an invite to your most prestigious tournament on a player who potentially won't play? You wouldn't. Naniwa needs to grow up and learn what being a professional means.
It wouldn't be the same thing. A football team leaving after being down 21-0, would be like Naniwa moving his probes then getting up and walking out of the booth. The situation is more comparable, to a football team playing their 3rd string after being down 21-0
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On December 15 2011 05:04 ExO_ wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 05:02 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:57 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:55 SupLilSon wrote:On December 15 2011 04:15 ExO_ wrote:On December 15 2011 04:12 kappadevin wrote:
People are too busy looking at the individual event here too much. It wasn't the fact that he probe rushed that really set people off, it's the fact that he so clearly and blatantly threw the game. People who play showmatches don't have anything at stake, so should it be allowable for them to just throw those games completely?
There shouldn't need to be an explicit rule about this kind of behavior: it should be self explanatory. Imagine you tuned into a football game where one team had no possibility of making the playoffs and they decide to just not play any defense for the rest of the game. It's about respecting you opponent, your fans, and your tournament. He wasn't expected to play his fingers off, but he should at least have the respect for NesTea to give him a legitimate game.
Look at Choya. He was playing rock paper scissors against people for ladder games, and EVEN THOUGH that wasn't even affiliated with GOM at all, he received a ban from the GSTL. Are you going to argue there should have been a specific rule saying you can't rock paper scissors on the ladder? I hope this whole thing gives Naniwa a wake up call to fix his attitude. He "should" give NesTea a good game sure. But by no means does he have to. He is his own player, and his audience can't tell him how to play his games. I hate how everybody here just presumes he should have to do what they want for them. Bullshit. he can do what he wants. on the other hand, booting him from GSL, without any real rules broken is bullshit and a huge violation of GSL's duty. You can't just kick a player out because they don't like what they did....or evidently you can. Watch out IdrA, GSL might kick you out if you do something they don't like. Yea, NaNiwa can do whatever he wants. GOMtv can also do whatever they want. They both live with the consequences of their actions. You really aren't making a point. GOM is an independent league and they can accept and deny whoever they want. They were going to invite NaNiwa and now they aren't. Who are you to tell them what to do? I'm not telling them what to do, I'm arguing what they can't do. And by banning a player just because he was disrespectful to you, is showing disrespect to all players. He earned his GSL spot, but is being told he won't get it. How would you like it as a player if you earned a GSL spot, but where told you cannot have it? That's what I'm against. I don't care about Naniwa. I care about what's being set here. He didn't earn anything. Being allowed to play in Korea is a privilege and NaNiwa lost that. Simple. Oh so Koreans are superior to westerners. We are not created equal, they are better and only if our betters "choose" to let us play with them, should we be allowed to play with them. Sorry guys, if you're not a Korean you must be an inferior. Please understand my sarcasm here (I'm not racist), and how much attitudes like the poster above mine's upset me.
It is a privilege. Why? Because it's their tournament (not to mention it has the best competition and highest prize pool). They are under no obligation to invite everyone equally, so it's completely within their right to revoke someone's eligibility to play for a certain season.
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I was contemplating getting a full year subscription yesterday to be able to watch the vods of Blizzcup and be settled for 2012 GSL matches. I'm happy i waited with ordering it a bit until i heard this news, and i wont be getting it either now (Probably not at all anymore).
I respectfully disagree with the standpoint GOMTv took in this situation. I'm at no means an Naniwa fan (not at all actually), i just think this punishment sets a wrong example and is overly harsh. I respect GOMTvs standpoint too because its their league and they can do whatever pleases them.
However, i think the game should have never been played (like the last games i up/down matches would not be played, eg. group C october GSL). Naniwa felt bad about not showing his a game and couldnt motivate for a game with nothing on the line, the match wouldn't have been fun even played a normal game because the drive aint there.
So for now i am done with GSL.
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Even if your baseball team has no chance of going to the playoffs, you still play the rest of the games for the season. Naniwa didn't. He's bad-mannered and this isn't the first time. So whatever, good decision.
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EPT
