While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned! - Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM - Comparing people to Hitler - Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum.
On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote: but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense
It's one game. Just play it for the fans, it's really not that big a deal. Small price to pay for being able to participate in the biggest tournament in the world.
Like Morrow put it earlier, Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor. Naniwa is the probably the most genuine progamer out there, I hate that Gom is trying to destroying the integrity of the game. This whole situation made possible and brought to you by Gom's horrible format! Basically, Gom shouldn't shit where they eat.
Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor, but if he should do his job.
He is a pro gamer. He legally agreed to the format and to said he'd play all the games. Naniwa acted highly unprofessionally and childish. So what you went 0-3, you agreed to the format and said you'd play all your games. Instead you threw a fit and decided fuck GOM I'm going to throw this game and he got punished for it.
Naniwa is the one destroying the integrity of the game. GOM is being a professional organization and not rolling over cause some childish player is upset of a format that HE AGREED TO.
sorry but were you in the same room where gomtv talked to naniwa about the terms and wether or wether not he had to play all his games regardless of the situataion?
if what your saying is true, if they player agrees before the tournament to play all the games regardless of the situation, then yes he did wrong. but if thats not the case your just lying and theres no reason to discuss with u
are you saying Naniwa didnt read or know about the format? before agreeing to play in front of TV audience in a scheduled match?
Morrow, I wish you all the best in korea and show foreigner pride but I just dont support such perspective.
well clearly naniwa did not know what he agreed to because no remotely smart person would probe rush knowing he would lose code S to it
ive never played a tournament where someone said i HAD to play. giving walkovers is standard (if the game doesnt matter) and you get away with it in all tournaments ive played this far. so wouldnt be surprised if naniwa was under the same impressions
it's common sense that if ur in the booth on a televised match that ur expected to well... play it out? yes walkovers are given in tournaments but you dont get into the booth on tv then expect one. yes there are no tournaments where u HAVE to play, obviously u can just forfeit but ull be punished. i see ur point but ur examples arent that good. nanima should be punished and u know it, ur just letting nationalism blind ur judgement
The problem with that is up and down matches are casted and in a both yet the games that do not matter end up getting skipped, why do they have to be played out now?
Because these are the rules in this tournament?
FFS is it so hard? You sighn up for a tournament which has rules XXX. You play as you should. You get your starting money.
You don't do this and act contrary to the wishes of the tournament organisation? You get punished.
On December 15 2011 02:19 wei2coolman wrote: It's not like he broken any rules >.>
GSL, what a joke. I'll definitely NOT buy a pass this season.
Are you people that blind? Read the OP.
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
At least read the other side of the story before you pass judgement.
I think the reason that no one is really taking that rule serious is that its so incredibly arbitrary. What offends me may not offend you and vice versa. I may be offended by you 4 gate-ting me who knows? You can't just disqualify a player for "offending someone" otherwise I could just go into a GSL match and go 100-0 because my opponents are "offending me" with their play and therefore should be disqualified. Also I highly doubt that Nestea was actually offended that he got a free win in a match that didn't matter, GOM is just taking this way out of proportion.
Just watch the game. Nestea is angry after it. He's angry on Twitter. He wanted to play that game. How could he be happy about that kind of "win"?
Didnt Nestea himself say he did not play serious vs Huk on stage in those show-matches? Is there some subtle difference in the entertainment provided to people paying for the games that you are supposed to automaticly get since those where showmatches?
Do you think the GOM audience would consider a 7 probe rush a game?
On December 15 2011 02:28 baoluvboa wrote: 1) Due to LXP agreement, Naniwa earned a Code S Seed. 2) 2012 had a format change, where GOM had two "code s seed" spots that they were going to use as invites instead of a direct MLG seed like the 2011 season. Due to this format change, Naniwa was supposed to be one of these code s seed invites instead of getting that direct MLG seed 3) Since they were spots they were going to use as invites, they saw yesterday's games and revoked that invitation using the excuse that it's an invitation.
1 and 2 contradict each other
2 is the correct one since it is 2012 and there was no seed from providence GOM considered him worthy because of providence but they chose not to invite him anymore due to his performance
Then it is less harsh since he did not earn a spot since the exchange was not concrete nor contractual. It is up to GOM and Naniwa messed it up
Let's be honest here - that is nothing but the previous situation dressed up in a pretty dress.
It shows that the conduct of GOM was not unprofessional. They did not revoke a given contractual spot that was earned by Naniwa. He was the top candidate and he blew it on the stage. Why would GOM invites him back after such performance especially when they have all rights, legal and logical, to not do so?
Actually, as NaNiwa's the best foreigner, there aren't "heaps of people" that could take his place
This. Removing Naniwa from Code S, quite possibly the best foreigner in the world right now, to somehow preserve the integrity of their tournament is absolutely laughable when on the same day they invite Idra purely because of his popularity, even though his results lately have been abysmal and not even worthy of a Code A player. It's either a serious tournament or a popularity contest, can't have it both ways.
People can defend Naniwa all they like but from where I sit what he did makes him look exactly like a "money hunter". He was invited to this tournament because he's a skilled player and they knew the fans would like to see him play. He refused to play as soon as he lost a chance at winning money. He showed that the fans and the game itself aren't important to him, only the money.
However, I'm not sure it's justified to revoke his Code S seed for it if he earned it at MLG. They definitely should not bring him to any future invitational events, though.
On December 15 2011 02:28 baoluvboa wrote: 1) Due to LXP agreement, Naniwa earned a Code S Seed. 2) 2012 had a format change, where GOM had two "code s seed" spots that they were going to use as invites instead of a direct MLG seed like the 2011 season. Due to this format change, Naniwa was supposed to be one of these code s seed invites instead of getting that direct MLG seed 3) Since they were spots they were going to use as invites, they saw yesterday's games and revoked that invitation using the excuse that it's an invitation.
1 and 2 contradict each other
2 is the correct one since it is 2012 and there was no seed from providence GOM considered him worthy because of providence but they chose not to invite him anymore due to his performance
Then it is less harsh since he did not earn a spot since the exchange was not concrete nor contractual. It is up to GOM and Naniwa messed it up
Let's be honest here - that is nothing but the previous situation dressed up in a pretty dress.
I would like to know whether you think the punishment is appropriate to the situation. ignore if you have already said so, I havnt read every page.
Cant honestly say I care. Both Idra and Sen are more fun to watch/have better personality than Naniwa. GSL will still be the best show and it is silly not to support them if they punish someone who showed disrespect and is quite honestly a mediocre player by GSL code S standard.
On December 15 2011 02:28 baoluvboa wrote: 1) Due to LXP agreement, Naniwa earned a Code S Seed. 2) 2012 had a format change, where GOM had two "code s seed" spots that they were going to use as invites instead of a direct MLG seed like the 2011 season. Due to this format change, Naniwa was supposed to be one of these code s seed invites instead of getting that direct MLG seed 3) Since they were spots they were going to use as invites, they saw yesterday's games and revoked that invitation using the excuse that it's an invitation.
1 and 2 contradict each other
2 is the correct one since it is 2012 and there was no seed from providence GOM considered him worthy because of providence but they chose not to invite him anymore due to his performance
Then it is less harsh since he did not earn a spot since the exchange was not concrete nor contractual. It is up to GOM and Naniwa messed it up
intelligent post, much better than the many "are u joking? ok now i wont buy GSL ticket anymore" posts.
Okay GOM wants to make a statement. That's fine, but they are shitting on Naniwa fans. Their reason/rule is very vague and it is more likely they just wanted the more popular player Idra to compete. All this while Nani wasted resources coming to Korea in order to compete in code S.
On December 15 2011 02:25 ig0tfish wrote: Hopefully this will save the integrity of e-sports. Naniwa spat in the faces of all the viewers.
only in the face of those who prefer fake showmatches over real competition. Then again, wrestling should be their sport of choice.
I stayed up expecting a match. Whether it was a fake showmatch, but at least show some effort. He made us stay there and waste our time. It would be much better if the last game ends, then the casters tell us "Okay, Naniwa forfeited, so the game won't be played" rather than "Naniwa vs Nestea, stay tuned!" that turns into a lolworker rush that lasted barely 2 minutes.
On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote: but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense
It's one game. Just play it for the fans, it's really not that big a deal. Small price to pay for being able to participate in the biggest tournament in the world.
Like Morrow put it earlier, Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor. Naniwa is the probably the most genuine progamer out there, I hate that Gom is trying to destroying the integrity of the game. This whole situation made possible and brought to you by Gom's horrible format! Basically, Gom shouldn't shit where they eat.
Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor, but if he should do his job.
He is a pro gamer. He legally agreed to the format and to said he'd play all the games. Naniwa acted highly unprofessionally and childish. So what you went 0-3, you agreed to the format and said you'd play all your games. Instead you threw a fit and decided fuck GOM I'm going to throw this game and he got punished for it.
Naniwa is the one destroying the integrity of the game. GOM is being a professional organization and not rolling over cause some childish player is upset of a format that HE AGREED TO.
sorry but were you in the same room where gomtv talked to naniwa about the terms and wether or wether not he had to play all his games regardless of the situataion?
if what your saying is true, if they player agrees before the tournament to play all the games regardless of the situation, then yes he did wrong. but if thats not the case your just lying and theres no reason to discuss with u
are you saying Naniwa didnt read or know about the format? before agreeing to play in front of TV audience in a scheduled match?
Morrow, I wish you all the best in korea and show foreigner pride but I just dont support such perspective.
well clearly naniwa did not know what he agreed to because no remotely smart person would probe rush knowing he would lose code S to it
ive never played a tournament where someone said i HAD to play. giving walkovers is standard (if the game doesnt matter) and you get away with it in all tournaments ive played this far. so wouldnt be surprised if naniwa was under the same impressions
it's common sense that if ur in the booth on a televised match that ur expected to well... play it out? yes walkovers are given in tournaments but you dont get into the booth on tv then expect one. yes there are no tournaments where u HAVE to play, obviously u can just forfeit but ull be punished. i see ur point but ur examples arent that good. nanima should be punished and u know it, ur just letting nationalism blind ur judgement
The problem with that is up and down matches are casted and in a both yet the games that do not matter end up getting skipped, why do they have to be played out now?
Because these are the rules in this tournament?
FFS is it so hard? You sighn up for a tournament which has rules XXX. You play as you should. You get your starting money.
You don't do this and act contrary to the wishes of the tournament organisation? You get punished.
It's not fucking rocket science.
He did play the game, technically so ffs it looks like it may be rocket science to you...
Blizzard Cup is more about competitions among so called the best players. The main reason people watch Blizzard Cup is because they want to see an epic game at higher level which you don't really get to see in MLG or GSL. Saying NaNiwa vs Nestea a meaningless and pointless game is just wrong!
This is, basically, bullshit. Was really looking forward to seeing Naniwa in Code S and GOM making the excuse that Naniwa was actually just an invite despite the fact that as far as we all were aware at the time of Providence, he won the spot, is also bullshit. Such an inconsequential thing
Guess they saved me money on the ticket.
On December 14 2011 18:40 Tatari wrote: I can't say I'm glad for this, but you could say Naniwa had this coming. People pay to watch pro-gamers play to their best and fullest potential, not for some bronze level worker rush cheese.
Well you weren't going to get that in the Nani v Nestea game, since both players were out and had nothing to gain from playing to their best and fullest potential. As Liquid'Tyler said, they would not and should not use their best strats against eachother in a meaningless game.
On December 15 2011 02:36 Aerakin wrote: Gom had all the rights to punish Naniwa.
However, the punishment is way too big. You don't punish a player that hard on their first "offense".
First strike = you're out is bad bad bad.
So the first time you cheat is ok? First time you steal is ok? The punishment isn't even that big. He didn't get banned from GSL. He can still qualify again. What Gom did wasn't that big of a deal.
Wow, consequences. Personally, I think it's a reasonable response - Naniwa acted impulsively and disrespectfully, and Koreans have always been very sensitive and inflexible with regards to sportsmanship, respect and honor.
EPT
