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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
This is a step in the right direction i feel. Naniwa only cares about wins we know this. however he plays for the greater good of esports and what he did is unacceptable so I agree with what GSL is doing.
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On December 15 2011 02:31 Clefairy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:28 DFDream wrote:On December 15 2011 02:23 LeopoldStotch wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 wei2coolman wrote:
It's not like he broken any rules >.>
GSL, what a joke. I'll definitely NOT buy a pass this season. Are you people that blind? Read the OP. - During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behavioursAt least read the other side of the story before you pass judgement. I think the reason that no one is really taking that rule serious is that its so incredibly arbitrary. What offends me may not offend you and vice versa. I may be offended by you 4 gate-ting me who knows? You can't just disqualify a player for "offending someone" otherwise I could just go into a GSL match and go 100-0 because my opponents are "offending me" with their play and therefore should be disqualified. Also I highly doubt that Nestea was actually offended that he got a free win in a match that didn't matter, GOM is just taking this way out of proportion. Just watch the game. Nestea is angry after it. He's angry on Twitter. He wanted to play that game. How could he be happy about that kind of "win"?
Didnt Nestea himself say he did not play serious vs Huk on stage in those show-matches? Is there some subtle difference in the entertainment provided to people paying for the games that you are supposed to automaticly get since those where showmatches?
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On December 15 2011 02:35 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:34 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:32 kochanfe wrote:On December 15 2011 02:30 BoReDWiTHLiFe wrote:
Been a forum lurker for some time now, and this is the first thread I've seen with this much hate, anger, racial bias and lack of reading comprehension since the whole Stephano/Millenium/Complexity mess a while back. Basically this is what I think it boils down to.
Did Naniwa have the right to 6 probe rush in a [to him] meaningless game? Certainly, just like you have every right to say 'fuck you' and give the middle finger to your boss after he assigns you 100 pages of busywork. Was it professional? Nope. Was it smart? Probably not. But I can sympathize considering he had just lost 3 very close games which he could have won. Still, considering the responses he gave during the TL interview, its pretty much a given that he threw that last match against Nestea.
On the flipside, did Gom have the right to punish Naniwa by revoking potential Code S seed? Absolutely, just like your boss has every right to fire you after you curse him out and hand him back 100 sheets of blank paper. Was the punishment a bit harsh? Probably, but Gom is sending a very clear message about what they will and will not tolerate in their tournament. It was pretty obvious that after pulling that shit in Korea, Naniwa was going to be punished in one way or another and this is just the form it took.
tl;dr, This is a pretty big overreaction from both sides of the issue and will probably blow over and be forgotten in a few months just like Stephano's contract issues. maybe, but the reprecussions for NaNiwa are HUGE! Not being able to participate in code S because of this is ridiculous naniwa can still participate in code s, its just that he has to make it through the code a qualifiers first with his own skills instead of getting a free ride from mlg. if he really is a top tier protoss player as all his fans hype he is, then he should be in code s in 2 seasons easily Wtf you think doing well at MLG doesn't require one to use their "own skills?" What about DRG and MC? That's how they got their spots.
MMA also
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On December 15 2011 02:34 Bluerain wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:25 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 02:23 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 02:21 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 02:18 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Kryptic.610 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:07 Tachion wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense It's one game. Just play it for the fans, it's really not that big a deal. Small price to pay for being able to participate in the biggest tournament in the world. Like Morrow put it earlier, Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor. Naniwa is the probably the most genuine progamer out there, I hate that Gom is trying to destroying the integrity of the game. This whole situation made possible and brought to you by Gom's horrible format! Basically, Gom shouldn't shit where they eat. Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor, but if he should do his job. He is a pro gamer. He legally agreed to the format and to said he'd play all the games. Naniwa acted highly unprofessionally and childish. So what you went 0-3, you agreed to the format and said you'd play all your games. Instead you threw a fit and decided fuck GOM I'm going to throw this game and he got punished for it. Naniwa is the one destroying the integrity of the game. GOM is being a professional organization and not rolling over cause some childish player is upset of a format that HE AGREED TO. sorry but were you in the same room where gomtv talked to naniwa about the terms and wether or wether not he had to play all his games regardless of the situataion? if what your saying is true, if they player agrees before the tournament to play all the games regardless of the situation, then yes he did wrong. but if thats not the case your just lying and theres no reason to discuss with u are you saying Naniwa didnt read or know about the format? before agreeing to play in front of TV audience in a scheduled match? Morrow, I wish you all the best in korea and show foreigner pride but I just dont support such perspective. well clearly naniwa did not know what he agreed to because no remotely smart person would probe rush knowing he would lose code S to it ive never played a tournament where someone said i HAD to play. giving walkovers is standard (if the game doesnt matter) and you get away with it in all tournaments ive played this far. so wouldnt be surprised if naniwa was under the same impressions it's common sense that if ur in the booth on a televised match that ur expected to well... play it out? yes walkovers are given in tournaments but you dont get into the booth on tv then expect one. yes there are no tournaments where u HAVE to play, obviously u can just forfeit but ull be punished. i see ur point but ur examples arent that good. nanima should be punished and u know it, ur just letting nationalism blind ur judgement
The problem with that is up and down matches are casted and in a both yet the games that do not matter end up getting skipped, why do they have to be played out now?
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Wow their refund policy is really bad, you can only get a refund within 3 days and only if that was the first ticket you ever bought. Normal would be two weeks I believe.
Well I certainly won't buy anything else this year like GSTLs and such, wich I originally wanted to buy.
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Gom had all the rights to punish Naniwa.
However, the punishment is way too big. You don't punish a player that hard on their first "offense".
First strike = you're out is bad bad bad.
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On December 15 2011 02:33 labbe wrote:
This isn't even about Naniwa anymore, this whole situation just shows how GOMTV has no respect for the foreign community, no respect for thier customers, and no respect for their players. This whole situation is an embarrassment for GOMTV, and everybody involved. They should man up and take some responsibility instead of making excuses.
I have lost all respect for GOMTV as a company. They are not the organization I want to lead the E-sports scene forward.
EDIT: I at least hopes that GOMTV takes this as a lesson, and starts to actually communicate with the community. If they had been clear on their rules and their seeding policy, none of this drama would have occurred.
I would respect GOM a lot less if they let Naniwa shit on them. If a player is out of line, then he should be dealt with accordingly.
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Sweden33719 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:28 baoluvboa wrote:
1) Due to LXP agreement, Naniwa earned a Code S Seed.
2) 2012 had a format change, where GOM had two "code s seed" spots that they were going to use as invites instead of a direct MLG seed like the 2011 season. Due to this format change, Naniwa was supposed to be one of these code s seed invites instead of getting that direct MLG seed
3) Since they were spots they were going to use as invites, they saw yesterday's games and revoked that invitation using the excuse that it's an invitation.
1 and 2 contradict each other
2 is the correct one since it is 2012 and there was no seed from providence
GOM considered him worthy because of providence but they chose not to invite him anymore due to his performance
Then it is less harsh since he did not earn a spot since the exchange was not concrete nor contractual. It is up to GOM and Naniwa messed it up
Let's be honest here - that is nothing but the previous situation dressed up in a pretty dress.
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On December 15 2011 02:35 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:34 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:32 kochanfe wrote:On December 15 2011 02:30 BoReDWiTHLiFe wrote:
Been a forum lurker for some time now, and this is the first thread I've seen with this much hate, anger, racial bias and lack of reading comprehension since the whole Stephano/Millenium/Complexity mess a while back. Basically this is what I think it boils down to.
Did Naniwa have the right to 6 probe rush in a [to him] meaningless game? Certainly, just like you have every right to say 'fuck you' and give the middle finger to your boss after he assigns you 100 pages of busywork. Was it professional? Nope. Was it smart? Probably not. But I can sympathize considering he had just lost 3 very close games which he could have won. Still, considering the responses he gave during the TL interview, its pretty much a given that he threw that last match against Nestea.
On the flipside, did Gom have the right to punish Naniwa by revoking potential Code S seed? Absolutely, just like your boss has every right to fire you after you curse him out and hand him back 100 sheets of blank paper. Was the punishment a bit harsh? Probably, but Gom is sending a very clear message about what they will and will not tolerate in their tournament. It was pretty obvious that after pulling that shit in Korea, Naniwa was going to be punished in one way or another and this is just the form it took.
tl;dr, This is a pretty big overreaction from both sides of the issue and will probably blow over and be forgotten in a few months just like Stephano's contract issues. maybe, but the reprecussions for NaNiwa are HUGE! Not being able to participate in code S because of this is ridiculous naniwa can still participate in code s, its just that he has to make it through the code a qualifiers first with his own skills instead of getting a free ride from mlg. if he really is a top tier protoss player as all his fans hype he is, then he should be in code s in 2 seasons easily Gettign a free ride from MLG. Well if thats the case then MMA,DRG and MC also need to go back to Code B. MLG exchange program means nothing.
You forget that nobody is getting a free pass from MLG in 2012 anymore. They removed that entire part of the exchange program for 2012.
They just decided to invite Naniwa to honor the last event of the 2012 season, and then revoked it after yesterday's games and gave the invite to another person (Sen).
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On December 15 2011 02:34 zala2023 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:32 kochanfe wrote:On December 15 2011 02:30 BoReDWiTHLiFe wrote:
Been a forum lurker for some time now, and this is the first thread I've seen with this much hate, anger, racial bias and lack of reading comprehension since the whole Stephano/Millenium/Complexity mess a while back. Basically this is what I think it boils down to.
Did Naniwa have the right to 6 probe rush in a [to him] meaningless game? Certainly, just like you have every right to say 'fuck you' and give the middle finger to your boss after he assigns you 100 pages of busywork. Was it professional? Nope. Was it smart? Probably not. But I can sympathize considering he had just lost 3 very close games which he could have won. Still, considering the responses he gave during the TL interview, its pretty much a given that he threw that last match against Nestea.
On the flipside, did Gom have the right to punish Naniwa by revoking potential Code S seed? Absolutely, just like your boss has every right to fire you after you curse him out and hand him back 100 sheets of blank paper. Was the punishment a bit harsh? Probably, but Gom is sending a very clear message about what they will and will not tolerate in their tournament. It was pretty obvious that after pulling that shit in Korea, Naniwa was going to be punished in one way or another and this is just the form it took.
tl;dr, This is a pretty big overreaction from both sides of the issue and will probably blow over and be forgotten in a few months just like Stephano's contract issues. maybe, but the reprecussions for NaNiwa are HUGE! Not being able to participate in code S because of this is ridiculous naniwa can still participate in code s, its just that he has to make it through the code a qualifiers first with his own skills instead of getting a free ride from mlg. if he really is a top tier protoss player as all his fans hype he is, then he should be in code s in 2 seasons easily
Say that to all the koreans failing to qualify from code A to S. Didn't one of them win Code S after their "free ride"? Overall it's just a unfair decision to take his code S spot, after he worked so hard to get it and even made the decision to move to Korea.
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On December 15 2011 02:36 Aerakin wrote:
Gom had all the rights to punish Naniwa.
However, the punishment is way too big. You don't punish a player that hard on their first "offense".
First strike = you're out is bad bad bad.
I wonder if they would have punished him this way if it had not come right after his antics at Providence.
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So gom is trying to wriggle away behind semantics? Disgusting.
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On December 15 2011 02:34 Phenrock wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:24 Snijjer wrote:On December 15 2011 02:21 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 02:18 Snijjer wrote:On December 15 2011 02:09 Warent wrote:On December 15 2011 02:02 Holloworb wrote:On December 15 2011 01:53 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense when the money and sponsors are involved you dont get to chose which games you dont want to play as a player. if it is scheduled, and if you are paid, you should play. and at least make in plausible. do you watch world cup? I guess you dont well as a player, again, i would never want to act a game for my fans. would make me feel like a fraud. plus i would never want to watch or hear that flash (who i am fan of) would be forced to act a game that doesnt matter but if you sign the contract and make it clear with the tournament admins that you HAVE to play ALL games, then this was wrong by naniwa. but we get into these iffy situations at times because of the tournament organisation, and their format doesnt make it clear to the players what they have to do when they sign up for the tournament. if gsl said in beforehand "naniwa, even if you lose 0-3 and some other guy lose 0-3, you still have to play your game against him even if the game doesnt matter at all, try to make the game look good okok?". so agreeing to these things in beforehand is the orgas responsibility, not the players if naniwa knew this would revoke his code S, im 110% sure he wouldnt probe rush. but the orga failed to "warn" him or make it clear to him about the conditions which is the reason all this happened in the first place. that is why i think it was wrong for gsl to point the finger at naniwa and punish him. that is why i think its the tournament orgas to blame, not the player I understand your reasoning MorroW., but i can't say I agree. You can't get explicitly warned about everything you aren't alowed to or shouldn't do in this world. Everyone is making sport analogies in this thread because thats what you should be comparing yourselves to. Lets say that Djurdgården and AIK met for the final match of the season, there's nothing on the line, all the spots in the league has been decided. So one team decides they dont want to play, they keep score on their own goal etc. You really think there wouldn't have been repercussions? Again the fotball... They would both use their B-teams with unexperienced players whom have everything to gain from showing off their skills to coaches, talent scouts etc. thus making the match count - for the players. And thus this analogy fails - again. No your understanding of what an Analogy is fails. Naniwa is not a set of individuals, he is the team. The team decided to rest their top players - that's their strategy. Their strategy is one which lost them their game. Naniwa played the SC2 game. His strategy - probe rush - was a losing strategy. Naniwa didnt field B team. Fielding B team would be similar to choosing infeior build or cannon rushing. What naniwa did was just standing around fiddling his thumb on the field. there is a degree of effort to be excused. If Naniwa did at least a cannon rushing or 4 gate, he wouldn't get kicked out of the code S. Instead, he a moved his probe. You're right he probably fielded team C, but it doesn't matter - because the result is the same thing as fielding team B. You people should not use team sports analogies, use individual sporting analogies. Tennis player hitting every ball out... A boxer taking a dive etc Naniwa still played, but was far too obvious he threw the game. He could argue that it is a legitimate strategy. Anyone with any knowledge knows he didn't want to play. So he played the quickest way to end the game. In a timed sport such as football, there is no real way to end the game quickly, apart from sitting around waiting for the clock to run down.
You know why you need to take team analogies, because there is never an instance in boxing where someone is fighting for nothing! What a concept!
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On December 15 2011 02:31 Lobo2me wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:29 kochanfe wrote:
NaNiwa wasn't the one being unprofessional here. GOM.tv just did the most unprofessional thing anyone's done in SC2 so far... Naniwa did something pretty unprofessional, but somehow GOM managed to one up him.
True one up manship would be if Nani played through the hard way and still won only to comment, "Shows you don't need a fucking hand out to be a champion." I would personally send him a card then.
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United States7483 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:13 Wallstreet11 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:10 TiTanIum_ wrote:
When IdrA left the GSL mid season, no one gave two thoughts about it. There wasn´t a 230+ page thread on Team Liquid and GOM didn´t ban IdrA from GSL. Now Nani drops a meaningless game and there is this shit storm. I really can´t understand. ----------------------------------------- /End thread _______________________________
IdrA didn't leave mid-season. He notified GOM during the previous season that he would be leaving after this tournament ended, well in advance. They specifically told him to stay until after group selection was over so it would be a surprise.
GOM had tons of notice about IdrA. A better comparison would be Rain, who left mid-season without a warning, and he got banned for two seasons, and that did cause a shitstorm thread.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50584 Posts
He's just not in codeS I believe he can still play in Code A
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good, naniwa needed to be punished for such poor sportsmanship
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I don't know what he expected would happen. A televised match. have you ever seen a professional soccer team run onto the field and start scoring the opponents goals for them on purpose? no because its a SPORT
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On December 15 2011 02:35 HappyChris wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:34 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:32 kochanfe wrote:On December 15 2011 02:30 BoReDWiTHLiFe wrote:
Been a forum lurker for some time now, and this is the first thread I've seen with this much hate, anger, racial bias and lack of reading comprehension since the whole Stephano/Millenium/Complexity mess a while back. Basically this is what I think it boils down to.
Did Naniwa have the right to 6 probe rush in a [to him] meaningless game? Certainly, just like you have every right to say 'fuck you' and give the middle finger to your boss after he assigns you 100 pages of busywork. Was it professional? Nope. Was it smart? Probably not. But I can sympathize considering he had just lost 3 very close games which he could have won. Still, considering the responses he gave during the TL interview, its pretty much a given that he threw that last match against Nestea.
On the flipside, did Gom have the right to punish Naniwa by revoking potential Code S seed? Absolutely, just like your boss has every right to fire you after you curse him out and hand him back 100 sheets of blank paper. Was the punishment a bit harsh? Probably, but Gom is sending a very clear message about what they will and will not tolerate in their tournament. It was pretty obvious that after pulling that shit in Korea, Naniwa was going to be punished in one way or another and this is just the form it took.
tl;dr, This is a pretty big overreaction from both sides of the issue and will probably blow over and be forgotten in a few months just like Stephano's contract issues. maybe, but the reprecussions for NaNiwa are HUGE! Not being able to participate in code S because of this is ridiculous naniwa can still participate in code s, its just that he has to make it through the code a qualifiers first with his own skills instead of getting a free ride from mlg. if he really is a top tier protoss player as all his fans hype he is, then he should be in code s in 2 seasons easily Gettign a free ride from MLG. Well if thats the case then MMA,DRG and MC also need to go back to Code B. MLG exchange program means nothing. But you proberly support Idra and Sen getting a free ride right
thats right
drg and mc should go back to code b, they are not near mvp's level if they cant be consistent
and you naniwa fanboys always change the topic
if he is that good he should be able to make it through code a qualifiers, gom tv didnt ban from from code s forever
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On December 15 2011 02:36 pusmoh wrote:
Wow their refund policy is really bad, you can only get a refund within 3 days and only if that was the first ticket you ever bought. Normal would be two weeks I believe.
Well I certainly won't buy anything else this year like GSTLs and such, wich I originally wanted to buy.
Email them, saying that you wan't a refund, and that you are going to harass their sponsors about it, how they scammed you, if they don't.
Don't worry, they will.
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EPT
