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While I understand that there's a need to discuss this matter, this thread has way too many trash posts in it. Please think carefully about what you want to say. Ad hominem attacks on Swedish people in general, calling you fellow Starcraft fans idiots etc etc will be dealt with with harsher punishment from here on out. Keep it civil people.
Page 230: Here's some more stuff that'll get you banned!
- Conspiracy theory mongering about MLG and GOM
- Comparing people to Hitler
- Posting useless one liners of arguments that have already been repeated ad nauseum. |
On December 15 2011 02:29 TheRPGAddict wrote:
Good move in the long run. Helps keep the integrity of the GSL leagues and you can bet your butt Naniwa will think twice before doing something shortsighted like this again. Also, he didn't technically earn the spot so it isn't like Gom is taking something away from him, it was a privilege and a bonus and he blew it.
This pretty much did the opposite for GOM.
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On December 15 2011 02:29 kochanfe wrote:
NaNiwa wasn't the one being unprofessional here. GOM.tv just did the most unprofessional thing anyone's done in SC2 so far...
Naniwa did something pretty unprofessional, but somehow GOM managed to one up him.
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On December 15 2011 02:21 MorroW wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:18 Femari wrote:On December 15 2011 02:13 Kryptic.610 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:07 Tachion wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense It's one game. Just play it for the fans, it's really not that big a deal. Small price to pay for being able to participate in the biggest tournament in the world. Like Morrow put it earlier, Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor. Naniwa is the probably the most genuine progamer out there, I hate that Gom is trying to destroying the integrity of the game. This whole situation made possible and brought to you by Gom's horrible format! Basically, Gom shouldn't shit where they eat. Naniwa shouldn't be forced to be an actor, but if he should do his job. He is a pro gamer. He legally agreed to the format and to said he'd play all the games. Naniwa acted highly unprofessionally and childish. So what you went 0-3, you agreed to the format and said you'd play all your games. Instead you threw a fit and decided fuck GOM I'm going to throw this game and he got punished for it. Naniwa is the one destroying the integrity of the game. GOM is being a professional organization and not rolling over cause some childish player is upset of a format that HE AGREED TO. sorry but were you in the same room where gomtv talked to naniwa about the terms and wether or wether not he had to play all his games regardless of the situataion? if what your saying is true, if they player agrees before the tournament to play all the games regardless of the situation, then yes he did wrong. but if thats not the case your just lying and theres no reason to discuss with u
if you honestly think a professional organization like gom would not require the players to legally agree to the rules and regulations of the tournament then i dont know what to say. if that never happened naniwa can just say i never agreed to said rules and a large shitstorm would occur. there could even be legal action taken against gom for a banning if he wasn't notified of the rules.
the player is notified by whatever tournament (assuming they're professional like gom or mlg) what the rules and regulations are. more than likely when you sign up for the tournament that's the legal document saying you agree to the terms.
yes it's an assumption but well judging by the way gom has handled it its also a safe assumption that they're not incompetent idiots who would risk legal repercussions cause they didn't have naniwa agree to the rules of the tournament or even inform him of the rules of the tournament.
format is shit yeah. gom shouldn't have used that format without a change in prize money between 4th and 5th for the groups. but if you cannot hold to your word you shouldn't agree to participate in the tournament. naniwa would've known that he had to play all the games beforehand or he would've been sent the information saying that. if he chose not to read the rules it's on him.
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well he is by far one of the best foreigns and there is no rule against worker rush so i dont understand ...
its unprofessionel from both sides and sry to say but naniwa is way stronger then idra as you can see in the last big tournaments
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On December 15 2011 02:29 ptrpb wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:29 windsupernova wrote:On December 15 2011 02:28 Korelle wrote:
If they want to remove a players well earned seed because "Korean Culture" demands Naniwa pay then that's a perfectly fine action for a Korean Starcraft League. Unfortunately this isn't the KSL, this is the GSL, and if they want to be taken seriously as a "Global" Starcraft League then treating a player like this when he hasn't broken any rules, especially a foreigner, isn't conducive to this.
Ultimately it's their choice whether they want Naniwa in their competition or not, but it's also my choice as to whether I want to spend money on this companies services, I was previously planning to, but after this incident I certainly won't be spending a penny on any GOM.TV services in future; due to their actions which to me seem just as unprofessional as anything Naniwa has done. Naniwa didn't earn anything. There was no seed for MLG providence. Read frontpage of thread
Point 1 and 2 of the front page contradicts each other.
Front page of thread actually means that there was no contract between MLG and GSL
they just wanted Naniwa for his providence performance at first but his misconduct changed their decision
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On December 15 2011 02:31 kochanfe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:28 smakme7757 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:24 Warillions wrote:On December 15 2011 01:51 kickinhead wrote:On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:
[quote]
Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game. sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol does naniwa get paid for exciting moves and nice plays? Does he get paid for being your dancing monkey? No, he gets paid if he wins and for representing his team/sponsors. If Nani looses sponsorship-contracts by doing sth. like this, I can understand it, but if you run a tournament with a bad format and expect a player to reveal strategies, endure stress and basically work for your entertainment without the possibility to gain any money from it, just because you are expecting it, you're not running a tournament, but variety-show and they should payN ani for it if they want him to entertain them. How can ppl not get this: Progamers PLAY FOR MONEY! If you are entertained by them, good, but you cannot blame them for not entertaining you and not to work for free AND even reveal strategies/playstyles on live TV. I mean, WTF: In recent history, Millenium has conceded 2 Clanwars in advance without even playing it out, so they could've even won those clanwars, but they didn't even try. What did IPL do? They apologized to the viewers and talked about it without going totally apeshit-crazy and Millenium got called out for it. Very simple and easy. And to the ppl who payd for it: You didn't see it written somewhere that there was a minimum of games you'd be able to see and that they will at least be 5 minutes long and you can get your money back if you are not entertained, so don't act like little children and accept the fact that stuff like this happens. THIS!!!! but its a double edged blade. GOM needs the players, the players need GOM. theres other tournies and theres other players. both have seperate interests and noone has to play by the other's rules. they can work together if they both want too. theres other tournies for naniwa to make money at and theres other players for gom to show. its a business move and time will tell if it was a good one for GOM or not. also time will tell if naniwa feels his character isnt making it in the esports industry. im all for self expression but theres a time when you need to smart up and shut up. however its not that time. hope naniwa tells GOM to kiss his ass and i hope other players bandwagon. It's true what you say, but what is Naniwa to GOM? Nothing. There are heaps of players that could take Naniwas position, both in Korea and around the world; The GSL is also is one of the best SC2 tournements in the world. You think other players will just boycott the GSL because of Naniwa? I doubt it, maybe some foreign players, but it still won't stop GOM from making a killing with their korean players, but lets face it, foreigners will still travel to Korea because that's the Holy Grail in SC2! Actually, as NaNiwa's the best foreigner, there aren't "heaps of people" that could take his place
He is *Currently* one of the best foreigners. Everyone can be replaced.
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On December 15 2011 02:29 kochanfe wrote:
NaNiwa wasn't the one being unprofessional here. GOM.tv just did the most unprofessional thing anyone's done in SC2 so far...
so you can saying that if a nfl player took a nap in the middle of the game and got banned from the league for it the nfl is unprofessional?
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On December 15 2011 02:30 BoReDWiTHLiFe wrote:
Been a forum lurker for some time now, and this is the first thread I've seen with this much hate, anger, racial bias and lack of reading comprehension since the whole Stephano/Millenium/Complexity mess a while back. Basically this is what I think it boils down to.
Did Naniwa have the right to 6 probe rush in a [to him] meaningless game? Certainly, just like you have every right to say 'fuck you' and give the middle finger to your boss after he assigns you 100 pages of busywork. Was it professional? Nope. Was it smart? Probably not. But I can sympathize considering he had just lost 3 very close games which he could have won. Still, considering the responses he gave during the TL interview, its pretty much a given that he threw that last match against Nestea.
On the flipside, did Gom have the right to punish Naniwa by revoking potential Code S seed? Absolutely, just like your boss has every right to fire you after you curse him out and hand him back 100 sheets of blank paper. Was the punishment a bit harsh? Probably, but Gom is sending a very clear message about what they will and will not tolerate in their tournament. It was pretty obvious that after pulling that shit in Korea, Naniwa was going to be punished in one way or another and this is just the form it took.
tl;dr, This is a pretty big overreaction from both sides of the issue and will probably blow over and be forgotten in a few months just like Stephano's contract issues.
I think this may actually be the smartest and well constructed post in the 240 pages in this thread.
I agree 100%.
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On December 15 2011 02:28 DFDream wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:23 LeopoldStotch wrote:On December 15 2011 02:19 wei2coolman wrote:
It's not like he broken any rules >.>
GSL, what a joke. I'll definitely NOT buy a pass this season. Are you people that blind? Read the OP. - During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behavioursAt least read the other side of the story before you pass judgement. I think the reason that no one is really taking that rule serious is that its so incredibly arbitrary. What offends me may not offend you and vice versa. I may be offended by you 4 gate-ting me who knows? You can't just disqualify a player for "offending someone" otherwise I could just go into a GSL match and go 100-0 because my opponents are "offending me" with their play and therefore should be disqualified. Also I highly doubt that Nestea was actually offended that he got a free win in a match that didn't matter, GOM is just taking this way out of proportion.
Just watch the game. Nestea is angry after it. He's angry on Twitter. He wanted to play that game. How could he be happy about that kind of "win"?
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On December 15 2011 02:24 Warillions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 01:51 kickinhead wrote:On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:On December 15 2011 01:09 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:04 HolydaKing wrote:[quote] so it would have gone in your mind to play like naniwa? in one of the most prestigious tournaments? just look like how extremely bored he looks. so disrespectful, while he could have gained so much respect. i suppose you have seen the video or even the live game, but go here if you haven't www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=394130 you dont ban a player for not having his hands on his keyboard while playing, if that was the case sjow wouldnt be a progamer anymore (:D) also you dont ban someone for looking bored this is a proffecional sports and players play by the rules of the tournament. naniwa did not break any rules. what is there left to say? Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game. sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol does naniwa get paid for exciting moves and nice plays? Does he get paid for being your dancing monkey? No, he gets paid if he wins and for representing his team/sponsors. If Nani looses sponsorship-contracts by doing sth. like this, I can understand it, but if you run a tournament with a bad format and expect a player to reveal strategies, endure stress and basically work for your entertainment without the possibility to gain any money from it, just because you are expecting it, you're not running a tournament, but variety-show and they should payN ani for it if they want him to entertain them. How can ppl not get this: Progamers PLAY FOR MONEY! If you are entertained by them, good, but you cannot blame them for not entertaining you and not to work for free AND even reveal strategies/playstyles on live TV. I mean, WTF: In recent history, Millenium has conceded 2 Clanwars in advance without even playing it out, so they could've even won those clanwars, but they didn't even try. What did IPL do? They apologized to the viewers and talked about it without going totally apeshit-crazy and Millenium got called out for it. Very simple and easy. And to the ppl who payd for it: You didn't see it written somewhere that there was a minimum of games you'd be able to see and that they will at least be 5 minutes long and you can get your money back if you are not entertained, so don't act like little children and accept the fact that stuff like this happens. THIS!!!! but its a double edged blade. GOM needs the players, the players need GOM. theres other tournies and theres other players. both have seperate interests and noone has to play by the other's rules. they can work together if they both want too. theres other tournies for naniwa to make money at and theres other players for gom to show. its a business move and time will tell if it was a good one for GOM or not. also time will tell if naniwa feels his character isnt making it in the esports industry. im all for self expression but theres a time when you need to smart up and shut up. however its not that time. hope naniwa tells GOM to kiss his ass and i hope other players bandwagon.
I'm with the two of you 100%.
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On December 15 2011 02:30 BoReDWiTHLiFe wrote:
Been a forum lurker for some time now, and this is the first thread I've seen with this much hate, anger, racial bias and lack of reading comprehension since the whole Stephano/Millenium/Complexity mess a while back. Basically this is what I think it boils down to.
Did Naniwa have the right to 6 probe rush in a [to him] meaningless game? Certainly, just like you have every right to say 'fuck you' and give the middle finger to your boss after he assigns you 100 pages of busywork. Was it professional? Nope. Was it smart? Probably not. But I can sympathize considering he had just lost 3 very close games which he could have won. Still, considering the responses he gave during the TL interview, its pretty much a given that he threw that last match against Nestea.
On the flipside, did Gom have the right to punish Naniwa by revoking potential Code S seed? Absolutely, just like your boss has every right to fire you after you curse him out and hand him back 100 sheets of blank paper. Was the punishment a bit harsh? Probably, but Gom is sending a very clear message about what they will and will not tolerate in their tournament. It was pretty obvious that after pulling that shit in Korea, Naniwa was going to be punished in one way or another and this is just the form it took.
tl;dr, This is a pretty big overreaction from both sides of the issue and will probably blow over and be forgotten in a few months just like Stephano's contract issues.
maybe, but the reprecussions for NaNiwa are HUGE! Not being able to participate in code S because of this is ridiculous
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The format definitely needs to be examined... but GOM prides itself as the premier SC2 provider.. best players, best games... all going for gold. There has definitely been an overreaction..... likely due to a communication breakdown. Naniwa may not give two craps about what others think about him, but now he's going to have to at least take these things into consideration. He's had a string of drama lately, I just hope it blows over quick and he gets back to it.
I think I'm missing some of the actual facts though. Did Naniwa talk to anyone about being unable to play the Nestea match? If he did..... then I definitely think all of this is an overreaction. If he didn't, then the reaction by GOM makes a bit more sense. Though I still hope they look at the format.
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On December 15 2011 02:31 kochanfe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:28 smakme7757 wrote:On December 15 2011 02:24 Warillions wrote:On December 15 2011 01:51 kickinhead wrote:On December 15 2011 01:37 zala2023 wrote:On December 15 2011 01:34 dawnstone wrote:On December 15 2011 01:29 BlitzerSC wrote:On December 15 2011 01:22 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:14 Velr wrote:On December 15 2011 01:11 HappyChris wrote:
[quote]
Hahaha Morrow thats just so mean to sjow. lol Ahm.. If Naniwa would just have done nothing at all, this would also not be ban worthy? Because.. He is in the game, he just did do nothing... Because well... He was 100% throwing that game on behalf, i don't care how it looked.. No one should care how it looked. He did it, he got what you should get for stuff like this. we are progamers, not actors. if you want to watch acting go pay for a movie instead of a sc2 tournament they tournament admins again, must allow players to give walkover in a match that doesnt matter. its the format and the rules that allow stuff like this to happen. situations where players dont want to win, always gets messy. so im not saying what naniwa did was ethical or not, that doesnt matter to me. what matters to me is that gsl fucks up, points the finger at naniwa but not only that, punishes him for not acting a game if i was in naniwas position id request for a walkover, if not id drink 10 cups of coffee and get some food poisioning or some shit. because a player never wants to act serious in a game. because if he loses people think he played bad and serious, and if he wins, people know his build order. its a lose lose situation for a player to get into a situation where he has to play a televised game that doesnt matter You should probably watch some real sports, especially soccer. Do you see players of a team that got eliminated in the champions league that have to play the last match just sits on the field ?? No, they try to play as better as they can even if they are playing against Barcelona/Milan/Inter ecc. No they play with their B-team instead....... Pointless point you are trying to make. Since the players have something to gain from these games they can improve their chances for a spot in the staring line up for the next game, and some of them might even have salaries depending on how many games they play. So dont make retarded arguments please since Naniwa had nothing to gain from that game. sure naniwa had nothing to gain, but what about the people who paid to see the games? gomtv is not going to let naniwa shit on the people who paid to be entertained by their tickets lol does naniwa get paid for exciting moves and nice plays? Does he get paid for being your dancing monkey? No, he gets paid if he wins and for representing his team/sponsors. If Nani looses sponsorship-contracts by doing sth. like this, I can understand it, but if you run a tournament with a bad format and expect a player to reveal strategies, endure stress and basically work for your entertainment without the possibility to gain any money from it, just because you are expecting it, you're not running a tournament, but variety-show and they should payN ani for it if they want him to entertain them. How can ppl not get this: Progamers PLAY FOR MONEY! If you are entertained by them, good, but you cannot blame them for not entertaining you and not to work for free AND even reveal strategies/playstyles on live TV. I mean, WTF: In recent history, Millenium has conceded 2 Clanwars in advance without even playing it out, so they could've even won those clanwars, but they didn't even try. What did IPL do? They apologized to the viewers and talked about it without going totally apeshit-crazy and Millenium got called out for it. Very simple and easy. And to the ppl who payd for it: You didn't see it written somewhere that there was a minimum of games you'd be able to see and that they will at least be 5 minutes long and you can get your money back if you are not entertained, so don't act like little children and accept the fact that stuff like this happens. THIS!!!! but its a double edged blade. GOM needs the players, the players need GOM. theres other tournies and theres other players. both have seperate interests and noone has to play by the other's rules. they can work together if they both want too. theres other tournies for naniwa to make money at and theres other players for gom to show. its a business move and time will tell if it was a good one for GOM or not. also time will tell if naniwa feels his character isnt making it in the esports industry. im all for self expression but theres a time when you need to smart up and shut up. however its not that time. hope naniwa tells GOM to kiss his ass and i hope other players bandwagon. It's true what you say, but what is Naniwa to GOM? Nothing. There are heaps of players that could take Naniwas position, both in Korea and around the world; The GSL is also is one of the best SC2 tournements in the world. You think other players will just boycott the GSL because of Naniwa? I doubt it, maybe some foreign players, but it still won't stop GOM from making a killing with their korean players, but lets face it, foreigners will still travel to Korea because that's the Holy Grail in SC2! Actually, as NaNiwa's the best foreigner, there aren't "heaps of people" that could take his place
That should be clarified as *one of the best*. lol.
He's indeed made more money than almost anyone else in SC2, but it's up for debate as to who the best foreigner is in SC2. It's not up for debate that he's a top foreigner.
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Thank you, GOM. Naniwa got what he deserved.
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This isn't even about Naniwa anymore, this whole situation just shows how GOMTV has no respect for the foreign community, no respect for thier customers, and no respect for their players. This whole situation is an embarrassment for GOMTV, and everybody involved. They should man up and take some responsibility instead of making excuses.
I have lost all respect for GOMTV as a company. They are not the organization I want to lead the E-sports scene forward.
EDIT: I at least hopes that GOMTV takes this as a lesson, and starts to actually communicate with the community. If they had been clear on their rules and their seeding policy, none of this drama would have occurred.
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On December 15 2011 02:23 zeru wrote:
- During a match, a player shall not offend the opponent or audience with abusive behaviours
has anyone an official link to this? i just found this in the official gom rules:
"Displaying violent behaviors to threaten the opposing player or the audience."
http://www.gomtv.net/2011gslsponsors3/news/64582
naniwa clearly didnt do anything violent!
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Naniwa shouldnt really care about this since he has always stated that he wants to earn his spot. Now he actually has to earn it. We will see.
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Switzerland2892 Posts
On December 15 2011 02:29 windsupernova wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:28 Korelle wrote:
If they want to remove a players well earned seed because "Korean Culture" demands Naniwa pay then that's a perfectly fine action for a Korean Starcraft League. Unfortunately this isn't the KSL, this is the GSL, and if they want to be taken seriously as a "Global" Starcraft League then treating a player like this when he hasn't broken any rules, especially a foreigner, isn't conducive to this.
Ultimately it's their choice whether they want Naniwa in their competition or not, but it's also my choice as to whether I want to spend money on this companies services, I was previously planning to, but after this incident I certainly won't be spending a penny on any GOM.TV services in future; due to their actions which to me seem just as unprofessional as anything Naniwa has done. Naniwa didn't earn anything. There was no seed for MLG providence.
Looks like MLG wasn't aware
On December 15 2011 01:56 MLG_Lee wrote:
Folks, we're just becoming aware of the decision from GSL. We don't have all the facts yet and are investigating.
Please stay tuned. Thanks,
Lee
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stop saying about "probe rush" as if Nani did a valid strategy. the fact is that he didnt fucking PLAY that game. I dont consider select probe + A-move with one hand PLAYING starcraft 2.Look at that image someone posted before and you will see how much of a disgrace it is. I laugh at ppl protecting this kid
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On December 15 2011 02:30 Snijjer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2011 02:27 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 02:24 Snijjer wrote:On December 15 2011 02:21 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 02:18 Snijjer wrote:On December 15 2011 02:09 Warent wrote:On December 15 2011 02:02 Holloworb wrote:On December 15 2011 01:53 MorroW wrote:On December 15 2011 01:45 Govou wrote:On December 15 2011 01:42 MorroW wrote:
but dont you guys agree in general making a rule where if a game doesnt matter, player should be allowed to request for walkover? or do you prefer them to be forced to play a game that doesnt matter? because this to me is far more important discussion than whatever else happened here
a rule like this to me, makes perfect sense when the money and sponsors are involved you dont get to chose which games you dont want to play as a player. if it is scheduled, and if you are paid, you should play. and at least make in plausible. do you watch world cup? I guess you dont well as a player, again, i would never want to act a game for my fans. would make me feel like a fraud. plus i would never want to watch or hear that flash (who i am fan of) would be forced to act a game that doesnt matter but if you sign the contract and make it clear with the tournament admins that you HAVE to play ALL games, then this was wrong by naniwa. but we get into these iffy situations at times because of the tournament organisation, and their format doesnt make it clear to the players what they have to do when they sign up for the tournament. if gsl said in beforehand "naniwa, even if you lose 0-3 and some other guy lose 0-3, you still have to play your game against him even if the game doesnt matter at all, try to make the game look good okok?". so agreeing to these things in beforehand is the orgas responsibility, not the players if naniwa knew this would revoke his code S, im 110% sure he wouldnt probe rush. but the orga failed to "warn" him or make it clear to him about the conditions which is the reason all this happened in the first place. that is why i think it was wrong for gsl to point the finger at naniwa and punish him. that is why i think its the tournament orgas to blame, not the player I understand your reasoning MorroW., but i can't say I agree. You can't get explicitly warned about everything you aren't alowed to or shouldn't do in this world. Everyone is making sport analogies in this thread because thats what you should be comparing yourselves to. Lets say that Djurdgården and AIK met for the final match of the season, there's nothing on the line, all the spots in the league has been decided. So one team decides they dont want to play, they keep score on their own goal etc. You really think there wouldn't have been repercussions? Again the fotball... They would both use their B-teams with unexperienced players whom have everything to gain from showing off their skills to coaches, talent scouts etc. thus making the match count - for the players. And thus this analogy fails - again. No your understanding of what an Analogy is fails. Naniwa is not a set of individuals, he is the team. The team decided to rest their top players - that's their strategy. Their strategy is one which lost them their game. Naniwa played the SC2 game. His strategy - probe rush - was a losing strategy. Naniwa didnt field B team. Fielding B team would be similar to choosing infeior build or cannon rushing. What naniwa did was just standing around fiddling his thumb on the field. there is a degree of effort to be excused. If Naniwa did at least a cannon rushing or 4 gate, he wouldn't get kicked out of the code S. Instead, he a moved his probe. You're right he probably fielded team C, but it doesn't matter - because the result is the same thing as fielding team B. you dont get it. It's about the result. It's not about Naniwa emotion and the work he put in. I can find many other qualified koreans who put more hours than him. It's about the competition. Where Naniwa showed none. I see many times less competitive team managing to win against other team because of competition. I'm not even asking Naniwa to show that much effort. A moving his probe was not fielding a C team, it was F team. ?? You're complaining about him not competing - the same thing happens every other sport where there are meaningless game being played. Which is the entire point.
lets not generalize probe rushing to 'not competing'
not competing in other pro sports (at least in north america) is far far more effort and hassle than what any progamers do.
naniwa a moving his probe was giving middle finger to the competition itself.
That is the entire point. I guess it's really such a hard concept for people to understand
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