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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
What is the particular tragedy about allin-ing a player on stage when you have nothing to play for?
Naniwa admits he has nerve issues and not only that but the behaviour that led so many people to hate him just happens to show how tilted he gets when he loses.
Naniwa had gone three-zero on his biggest stage yet, he probably already knew he was going to lose in that condition.
Why give Nestea some contrived game that shows nothing but how little the next 20 minutes meant to him.
Surprisingly, I think it is less entertaining to watch a game between two players barely trying that goes on for 20 minutes then a quick probe rush and have the winners play some games.
Here is some interesting perspective
Q : I bet advancing as a third player is not what you were aiming for?
MC: I wanted to be the first from the group. 2nd and 3rd are the same in my opinion. When I knew that there was no way I could be the first in the group I was bit disappointed. But I still didn't want to lose but knowing that I am ready advancing made me wanting to end the game quickly. I think I was very impatient.
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United States12607 Posts
I don't understand why so many posters in this thread think that this game didn't "count for anything" just because it had no bearing on who advances from the group. Advancing in tournaments is not the only thing that pro players are paid to do. This game was a big opportunity:
- for NaNi, Quantic, and the foreign scene to show their stuff, generally
- for NaNi to gain even more notoriety through his rivalry with NesTea (imagine what a nice win + ceremony would have done)
- for NaNi and Quantic to win over new fans, who will increase the worth of player and team
- for NaNi and Quantic to impress GOM, who might then invite/welcome NaNi/foreigners/Quantic players to many more huge events in Korea
- for NaNi to gain stage experience against a top top pro
- for NaNi to better understand NesTea, in case they meet again
I'm sure there's more I'm missing. The point is that it's silly to think that there was nothing on the line here solely because prize money/tournament placing was not in question.
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On December 13 2011 22:00 Zane wrote:
I don't understand what all the Naniwa outrage is about. Naniwa is known for being respectful and over-all good mannered, he just got frustrated because he lost. It only happened once, it's perfectly understandable and this is clearly not representative of his professionalism and manners.
Um, Naniwa is well known for being the direct opposite of what you're saying. There's a reason he switches teams like other switches pants.
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6 probe counters 6 pool.
Everyone seriously needs to get over it.
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On December 13 2011 22:01 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:58 grobo wrote:On December 13 2011 21:52 theBALLS wrote:On December 13 2011 21:49 grobo wrote:On December 13 2011 21:48 theBALLS wrote:On December 13 2011 21:47 MWY wrote:
There were so many great matches in this group already that i didnt really care.. Nestea and Nani were both out before so it didn't matter at all. Chill out =) He even gg'd and didnt do any thumbs down stuff so whatever.. Dude. Do you think that was even a manner GG? I'm sure you know better than the rest of us including Naniwa? Bro, I understand that you're swedish like Naniwa. However this time around you have to take the plank out of your eye and look at things objectively. How could you even argue that what Naniwa did wasn't wrong? You do it in your own country, fine. You don't step into a neighbour's house and take a dump on his carpet, say "nice of you to have me" and walk out. Seriously, it's quite exasperating to see how people could argue for Naniwa. First of all, i'm not your bro. Did he break any rules? no. You don't know a damn thing about how me or other swedes do things here, so stop with the nonsense. And what the FUCK does that parable have to do with anything? it's not even remotely similar to this situation. It is similar. In korea, there is a different set of rules for what constitutes BM, which is why BM is such a big deal in SC2 in the west. If I don't say gg in a tournament in SC2, that's a big deal. If I tell a team to get lost in WoW Area or something, I doubt anyone would care at all. According to the korean ideas, what naniwa did was very disrespectful and he should know this, yet he decided to do it anyway. That's just a complete disregard for the koreans way of seeing it, showing no respect for their culture when in it.
Thank you.
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So.. what's preventing Naniwa from saying "I thought Nestea was going to 6pool because it was a meaningless match, so I probe rushed to counter it"
He's not wrong.
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On December 13 2011 22:03 Tobberoth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:00 Zane wrote:
I don't understand what all the Naniwa outrage is about. Naniwa is known for being respectful and over-all good mannered, he just got frustrated because he lost. It only happened once, it's perfectly understandable and this is clearly not representative of his professionalism and manners. Um, Naniwa is well known for being the direct opposite of what you're saying. There's a reason he switches teams like other switches pants.
99% sure that guy was being sarcastic.. hard to tell but I cant imagine anyone saying that with a straight face.
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I don't see what the big deal is. The game obviously didn't matter for neither player and there have been tons of games where a player just wants to get the game over and cheeses and fails. Had naniwa done a proxy 2 gate it would've been the same result and no one would give a fuck. He just didn't want to waste the time of people watching.
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On December 13 2011 22:03 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:01 Holgerius wrote:On December 13 2011 22:01 zeru wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 1Eris1 wrote:
People defending naniwa, can't you understand that a lot of people were really looking forward to naniwa vs nestea and expected a good game? Hell some people might have stayed up all night just to watch this game or even only bought their ticket for this rivalry? And now they feel cheated because naniwa basically gave them a middle finger. You could make the same argument for a lot of boring all ins / cheeses. Especially during the 1-1-1 season. Terran player x did 1-1-1, viewer now feels cheated becuase x basically gave them a middle finger. Except that is called playing to win. You cannot possible argue that what Naniwa did was playing to win. The game didnt matter, its perfectly understandable that he didnt feel like playing. I'm talking about the robbing the viewer of a good game argument.
The game mattered.
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On December 13 2011 21:58 1Eris1 wrote:
People defending naniwa, can't you understand that a lot of people were really looking forward to naniwa vs nestea and expected a good game? Hell some people might have stayed up all night just to watch this game or even only bought their ticket for this rivalry? And now they feel cheated because naniwa basically gave them a middle finger.
Naniwa doesn't play to make you happy which he has made clear several times before. Blame the tournament for having a setup that can create these situations, you wouldn't get a good performance out of any sportsman after what naniwa went though. He was probably extremely disappointed and angry after those losses and they want him to play a showmatch? PLEASE.
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Oh look, another one of those threads where people crave for drama and controversy as Gregory House craves Vicodin.
It's up to Naniwa. He probably felt really bad and did not want to play further. Where is the controversy?
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On December 13 2011 21:39 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Should be treated the same way as slayersCoca...
no absolutely not
1.neither naniwa nor NesTea had a chance of advancing so it makes no difference if naniwa loses or forfeits or whatever since it wont change the results...
2.a player can play any strategy he wants to and there is no way to restrict players to what they are allowed to play and what not
it would be like saying: voidray colossus is imba you arent allowed to play that strategy this tournament
3.NesTea didnt ask naniwa to do it
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Just for the same of an argument: Why don't we play out all BoX?
Example: It is Best of 3, one player wins the two first matches, why isn't the last one played?
However:
I still think Naniwa did the wrong thing though and he should be reprimanded. I don't think he should be banned or kicked out of any team.
Quantic could add a clause to his contract for example saying he should "gg" every game and never worker-rush, otherwise he would be fined or fired or whatever,
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Poor Quantic really. Naniwa should grow up
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A few thoughts:
1. Tournaments should not design their format in a way that allows for meaningless games, and then expect players to actually play them. This should be avoided at all costs, and all the responsibility and blame for the disappointment any viewers have should fall exclusively on GOM. Playing a televised Starcraft game is incredibly draining, and it is wrong to require players to play them solely for someone's entertainment with zero competitive motivation. It's a horrible, horrible thing to do to a player.
2. Stop being so freaking selfish. Being a Starcraft fan is about following and supporting the players, yet it is the almost always the players that get most of the flak. I can understand why GOM would be angry at Nani (even though they should be angry at themselves), I can understand why Quantic would be angry at Nani as well (even though they should be there to support him as a competitor first and foremost), I can understand that NesTea is upset because he didn't get the chance for revenge - but I can't understand why a random fan would be angry. Seriously, what has he done to offend YOU? He wasn't malicious or offensive towards anybody (except himself).
He could have stayed and played out the game with Nestea for the sake of formality, but he would still have played shit because his mentality at that moment would make it physically impossible for him to play a good game that would be enjoyable for anyone. If you're actually Naniwa's fan, you probably didn't even want to see that game (I know for sure I didn't want to see any of Hero's games yesterday after loss vs MC), if you're not a Naniwa fan then at least respect him (and any other player) as a competitor and don't expect him to show up just to entertain you and be some sort of a modern day gladiator.
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Naniwa didn't want to play because he got no financial reward out of it. He isn't a crowd pleaser like HuK. He's naniwa. What's so hard to understand about that?
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Guys, let's phrase this with an analogy that I think would make things a lot clearer.
In the NFL, if you're the Miami dolphins who are 0-13 in the season, and there's no way in hell you'll be getting to the postseason...
Do you just show up to the game, and walk off the match?
F*CK NO! There are so many fans who came out to watch you play, and your opponent has also come out to play you, along with the entire organization who has organized everything for you. Sure it's somewhat different because Naniwa played several matches already, but even so, the principle remains the same: people have paid and sponsors have paid and teams have paid to watch you play. Not to be a whiny bitch and waste everyone's time.
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On December 13 2011 21:41 grobo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 21:39 neoghaleon55 wrote:
Should be treated the same way as slayersCoca... A useless match that means nothing except pride is the same as a game that decide who gets a Code A spot?
You should probably note that the game that Coca threw was game 2 in the Ro32 for a tournament that qualified you for the tournament that you had to win to get the Code A spot. Over dramatised much?
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EPT
