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Please keep this thread on topic. It's ok to discuss the professionalism of what happened, but don't turn this thread into personal attacks or it will be closed. |
On December 13 2011 22:12 SuperFanBoy wrote:
Naniwa gained a lot of respect from me, he stood up to the system and that takes a lot of courage, why does GOM make players play when they have already lost.. Its a real kick to their dignity by making them play a game, especially since Naniwa was 0-4.
Also how is what he did any different from MMA 2 rax all inning Leenock on their first match.. if Naniwa robbed the fans of a match, then MMA did the same. People please stop with the double standards, and leave players be..
yeah, i guess they should stop inviting foreigners players then :/
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Wrong place, wrong opponent, wrong time to do that Nani...
First of all, this is the GSL blizzard cup, where champions come to play.
These are tournament winners...the most prestige players this year from various tournaments and they're supposed to show the epidome of what being a top player is all about and showcase their skills/builds and the mechanics in what are essentially glorified showmatch games. They're supposed to carry the aura of winners, hard-working, respectful passionate players for the game, and e-sports.
If Naniwa did this in a smaller tournament, I'm very sure people wouldnt look into it as much but this is the blizzard cup.
If you wanted to throw game...why not do a cheese?
Do you have to really go out of your way THAT much and insist ona 6 probe rush...You could ahve proxy'ed, 4 gate'd there's ton of viable cheese available...where it shows minimal effort on your part in having a short-game in which you were obviously striving for with the 6-worker rush....
What Naniwa did is slap in the face to NesTea, he was really looking forward to his match, as mentioned..practicing when its HIS BIRTHDAY (happy b-day to the zerg god btw), and constantly talking about how he wanted to re-match against Nani on friendly terms for his 'revenge',but what nani did exemplified was basically chucking a free win at NesTea and going "you want to win so much, here, take it, k bye" which is highly disrespectful. If people don't feel this is the tone he basically set...Imagine how you'd be thinking being NesTea as nani did what he did.
THE LAST THING naniwa needs is more controversy especially with his recent dealings with coLMVP and Quantic, his showcasing at MLG Providence as this was one of his small chances to win over fans, win over Quantic as a class/role player they hoped to sign and helping out and making him seem like a respectul class player in peoples eyes...
Completely. Completely. Misplayed.
I mentioned in a previous post about how I jokingly imagined that Naniwa/Nestea would cause a huge fight to happen at TL.net, but I would have never have guess, it would have come into fruitition...just terrible Nani..
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On December 13 2011 22:14 Yaki wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:12 SuperFanBoy wrote:
Naniwa gained a lot of respect from me, he stood up to the system and that takes a lot of courage, why does GOM make players play when they have already lost.. Its a real kick to their dignity by making them play a game, especially since Naniwa was 0-4.
Also how is what he did any different from MMA 2 rax all inning Leenock on their first match.. if Naniwa robbed the fans of a match, then MMA did the same. People please stop with the double standards, and leave players be.. When you enters a tournament, either you submit yourself to the rules and respect them, or you refuse to participe in that tournament.
Which rule(s) did he break?
Can you link them please?
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On December 13 2011 22:09 theBALLS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:06 NaquadahEOD wrote:
If this is behaviour is condoned, what if people just place huge bets against themselves, and go on to lose a match on purpose?
I see where you are coming from, but voting against oneself is illegal. So I'm not exactly sure why you are bringing this up as an argument... As it turns out, Nestea was about to 6-pool anyway. That's pretty classy, huh? Of course it's illegal... but it's definitely not hard at all to do it (ask a friend, etc) But whatever it is, this is a minor point from me, the kicker (I'm Asian as well) is the insult to the Koreans who are a proud and honest people. They take moral virtues very seriously, and Naniwa just completely disrespected their culture.
That's retarded.
Korean culture disapproves of probe rushing in useless games, but approves of 6-pooling in useless games. Sure, why not.
Korean's certainly approve of cheesing. That's the only way Leenock can win, and everybody is jumping on the Leenock bandwagon now.
Your creating issues where issues don't exist. There isn't an issue with professional SC2 players betting against themselves and throwing games. It just doesn't exist right now. Do you think somebody will see Naniwa's probe rush then have an epiphany?
"Oh shit! I can totally cheat!"
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On December 13 2011 22:12 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:03 JWD wrote:I don't understand why so many posters in this thread think that this game didn't "count for anything" just because it had no bearing on who advances from the group. Advancing in tournaments is not the only thing that pro players are paid to do. This game was a big opportunity: - for NaNi, Quantic, and the foreign scene to show their stuff, generally
- for NaNi to gain even more notoriety through his rivalry with NesTea (imagine what a nice win + ceremony would have done)
- for Quantic to get its sponsors in front of thousands of viewers over 25 minutes of gameplay
- for NaNi and Quantic to win over new fans, who will increase the worth of player and team
- for NaNi and Quantic to impress GOM, who might then invite/welcome NaNi/foreigners/Quantic players to many more huge events in Korea
- for NaNi to gain stage experience against a top top pro
- for NaNi to better understand NesTea, in case they meet again
I'm sure there's more I'm missing. The point is that it's silly to think that there was nothing on the line here solely because prize money/tournament placing was not in question. - Naniwa was already tilting, he wouldn't have played his best and it wouldn't have been a good reflection of his skill
- This makes the rivalry with Nestea even greater, it accomplished the same thing
- Quantic doesn't get its sponsors in front of thousands of viewers over 25 minutes. They give their sponsors airtime through jerseys and the name Quantic Gaming(both of which were used the same amount of times as a regular game). He actually doesn't even have a jersey yet.
- Naniwa going 0-3/0-4/1-3 isn't going to make a big difference in fans gained/lost.
- Why would Naniwa playing Nestea impress GOM?
- Nani has already beat Nestea and has plenty of stage experience. I don't think thats a problem.
- This game would also give Nestea a better understanding of Naniwa, so it works against him as well.
Before today I was borderline about him, not really sure if he "really" has gotten over his childish past after the recent "Nestea-idiotic-issue".
After today I know I'll never be a fan of him, ever.
So at least it's: -1
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Imagine you paid to go to an olympic soccer game. Neither team had any chance of advancing into the playoffs. They both just walked onto the field, kicked the ball into play, and walked off. Would you be pretty angry? I think so. I paid to see the Blizzard Cup, and the fact that Naniwa spat in my face because of his pride is disgusting. I always thought his attitude was pretty bad, but this brings it to another level. While before I wasn't a fan, now I am an anti-fan.
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On December 13 2011 22:15 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:12 SuperFanBoy wrote:
Naniwa gained a lot of respect from me, he stood up to the system and that takes a lot of courage, why does GOM make players play when they have already lost.. Its a real kick to their dignity by making them play a game, especially since Naniwa was 0-4.
Also how is what he did any different from MMA 2 rax all inning Leenock on their first match.. if Naniwa robbed the fans of a match, then MMA did the same. People please stop with the double standards, and leave players be.. yeah, i guess they should stop inviting foreigners players then :/
He earned his spot in the tournament, he wasn't invited.
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On December 13 2011 22:14 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:10 1Eris1 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:04 pezit wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 1Eris1 wrote:
People defending naniwa, can't you understand that a lot of people were really looking forward to naniwa vs nestea and expected a good game? Hell some people might have stayed up all night just to watch this game or even only bought their ticket for this rivalry? And now they feel cheated because naniwa basically gave them a middle finger. Naniwa doesn't play to make you happy which he has made clear several times before. Blame the tournament for having a setup that can create these situations, you wouldn't get a good performance out of any sportsman after what naniwa went though. He was probably extremely disappointed and angry after those losses and they want him to play a showmatch? PLEASE. A showmatch? He was gifted a spot into a prestigious tournament because gomtv is nice and basically told them to fuck off. If people aren't gonna tAke the tournament seriously then shouldn't accept the invitation. He wasn't invited... he qualified via the qualification process GOM laid out for this tournament months ago.
they did that because they wanted to give the foreigner a chance rather than having go through bunch of koreans
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On December 13 2011 22:11 Sneakyz wrote:
What bothers me is some people saying he should atleast have 2gate proxy or 4gated... So it doesn't matter if he doesn't care about the game as long as it's a slightly longer game?
Very much agree. It was going to be a shit game regardless of what he did. He just skipped the formalities.
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i actually don't understand how people can compare his probe rush to a 6pool...? 6pool is a legit strategy that could actually work.
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It was stupid from Naniwa in the sense that he would have saved himself a lot of trouble just going through with the match instead of following through with his emotions at the time and receiving a shitstorm that was easily avoidable. I think his team might look into some sort of penalty for the way he represented himself but as a fan I don't see the need to get so worked up. It's always disappointing to be deprived of a Naniwa vs Nestea match, no matter what the circumstances, but seriously it's one game; life goes on and it's not like the Sc2 scene is hurting for content right now.
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honestly gom deserves this after making it this awful Bo1 cheesefest format
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Don't see a point in playing games that don't matter.They should really let players not play something if it doesn't matter >.>.
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On December 13 2011 22:16 aquanda wrote:
Imagine you paid to go to an olympic soccer game. Neither team had any chance of advancing into the playoffs. They both just walked onto the field, kicked the ball into play, and walked off. Would you be pretty angry? I think so. I paid to see the Blizzard Cup, and the fact that Naniwa spat in my face because of his pride is disgusting. I always thought his attitude was pretty bad, but this brings it to another level. While before I wasn't a fan, now I am an anti-fan.
lol this happens all thie time in proffessional fotball. In matches that don't mean anything they will not use their star players. And the games are generally very lame and boring, as no one is giving it their very best.
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To be honest Naniwa did the same thing that had been done to him in 3 games. 3 cheese All-ins by opponents who did not want to play a macro game. If you want to blame anyone for preventing you to watch good games blame MMA, Polt and Leenoc for what they did was the same. Nani just showed the huge flaw in the format by taking it to the extreme, something I guess GOM knows about seeing as they are stopping the bo1 in gsl code S next season. During the November code S I skipped a lot of the games due to them just being cheesy all-ins and if they had not changed this I would not buy another season ticket.
If you guys cant recognize that Naniwa gave his everything in the first 3 games and made the cheesy all-ins from his opponents look entertaining then I guess your just to self entitled to see the bigger picture and understand why he did what he did.
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On December 13 2011 22:16 NaquadahEOD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:09 theBALLS wrote:On December 13 2011 22:06 NaquadahEOD wrote:
If this is behaviour is condoned, what if people just place huge bets against themselves, and go on to lose a match on purpose?
I see where you are coming from, but voting against oneself is illegal. So I'm not exactly sure why you are bringing this up as an argument... As it turns out, Nestea was about to 6-pool anyway. That's pretty classy, huh? Of course it's illegal... but it's definitely not hard at all to do it (ask a friend, etc) But whatever it is, this is a minor point from me, the kicker (I'm Asian as well) is the insult to the Koreans who are a proud and honest people. They take moral virtues very seriously, and Naniwa just completely disrespected their culture. That's retarded. Korean culture disapproves of probe rushing in useless games, but approves of 6-pooling in useless games. Sure, why not. Korean's certainly approve of cheesing. That's the only way Leenock can win, and everybody is jumping on the Leenock bandwagon now. Your creating issues where issues don't exist. There isn't an issue with professional SC2 players betting against themselves and throwing games. It just doesn't exist right now. Do you think somebody will see Naniwa's probe rush then have an epiphany? "Oh shit! I can totally cheat!"
Except 6 pool is a valid strategy and can beat greedy builds. Worker rush on the other hand, anyone that gotten pass the bronze league would of learned to how to deal with it, so in the professional scene, there is literally 0% chance to win with it, hence you are literally throwing away the game.
Throwing away game =/= Cheese... people need to understand this point
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On December 13 2011 22:17 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:14 Kiyo. wrote:On December 13 2011 22:10 1Eris1 wrote:On December 13 2011 22:04 pezit wrote:On December 13 2011 21:58 1Eris1 wrote:
People defending naniwa, can't you understand that a lot of people were really looking forward to naniwa vs nestea and expected a good game? Hell some people might have stayed up all night just to watch this game or even only bought their ticket for this rivalry? And now they feel cheated because naniwa basically gave them a middle finger. Naniwa doesn't play to make you happy which he has made clear several times before. Blame the tournament for having a setup that can create these situations, you wouldn't get a good performance out of any sportsman after what naniwa went though. He was probably extremely disappointed and angry after those losses and they want him to play a showmatch? PLEASE. A showmatch? He was gifted a spot into a prestigious tournament because gomtv is nice and basically told them to fuck off. If people aren't gonna tAke the tournament seriously then shouldn't accept the invitation. He wasn't invited... he qualified via the qualification process GOM laid out for this tournament months ago. they did that because they wanted to give the foreigner a chance rather than having go through bunch of koreans
Yea, because they had the foresight to know that a foreigner would finish in the top 2 of a tournament with 10+ of the best koreans in the world playing.
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On December 13 2011 22:18 labbe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2011 22:16 aquanda wrote:
Imagine you paid to go to an olympic soccer game. Neither team had any chance of advancing into the playoffs. They both just walked onto the field, kicked the ball into play, and walked off. Would you be pretty angry? I think so. I paid to see the Blizzard Cup, and the fact that Naniwa spat in my face because of his pride is disgusting. I always thought his attitude was pretty bad, but this brings it to another level. While before I wasn't a fan, now I am an anti-fan. lol this happens all thie time in proffessional fotball. In matches that don't mean anything they will not use their star players. And the games are generally very lame and boring, as no one is giving it their very best.
you don't watch football, i can tell
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Who cares, more worried about his inabilaty to perform in the GSL.
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EPT
