I just dont see the point in accusing a professional player as a cheater. Its the most disrespectful thing to say and also its unfunded.
Without at least very good supporting evidence, there isnt even a case here. Perhaps there where some mistakes, but I highly doubt that it has affected the games in such amazing big ways that it gave naniwa the clear edge. If anything, the situation probably shaked both players up a bit and threw them both off-game.
As someone else said before me: stop the shitstorm, there is no use in accusing players of anything where you have NO facts because you weren't there.
GL HF watching MLG, I do and still will! Ty for doing this for us, the community!
On November 21 2011 01:32 Grend wrote: Just thought I`d repost this here to see if Adam wants to correct stuff that is wrong.
EDIT: Claryfying MLG Statement:
"After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise.
Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game. Moving forward, we will look at rules outlawing any replay views on a tournament PC"
Okay let us try to put this thing to an end. Here is some information I`ve gathered about the whole Nestea vs Naniwa situation. 1. Naniwa calling Nestea an idiot
Naniwa did call Nestea an idiot. But he did it referencing one particular episode. He was referencing the episode where Nestea decided to pull his drones for an attack, but was only feinting and withdrew his drones before reaching Naniwas base. So he did call him an idiot, but there is a strong case for him simply trying to communicate that he thought that particular tactical move was idiotic .
Naniwa apologized for this later: "I must have formulated myself badly in the interviews I did not mean to call nestea bad. Or. An idiot watch next col iview. . " https://twitter.com/#!/CoLNaniwa
2. The first attempt at playing game 3 This is what I`ve gathered: Naniwa needed to go to the toilet after game 2. He asked the admins to go. This is allowed in the rules but the decision is up to the admin. Apparently the admin said no, and the game was started.
But without the admin knowing the stream had in the meantime started showing an ad. So the start of the game was not shown. At some point the game was paused.
Then it was decided that the game would be restarted, and the players would get a chance to go to the toilet before starting the game over.
"Basically in game 3, the map was Shak. The game was begun before the stream was out of commercial which meant they had to stop and re-enter the game again."
Reddit witness account: "I caught in the chat one of the players saying that they needed to use the W.C. before the match started (I don't know which one it was), to which the admin responded "no, we have to start now". Then RedB said "ask your admin" to which the admin in the chat responded "we're going now" and they immediately cut to the ads on the player screens. At that point Artosis and Tasteless are still on the screen, but the match had started. Then Tasteless says something about "NaNiWa says he's going to pause the match.... we have to sort this out" - at which point I realized that it was NaNiWa that had to use the bathroom, and after about a minute of play (which was never put on the screen), paused the match. That's when they cut to the paused game in which there was OVER a minute of play time played. At this point, nobody really did anything, until the admins on stage realized that it was a horrible situation and they had to let him go to the bathroom (I get that they were late to start with... but it seems unreasonable to start a match when one of your players isn't ready because of time issues). That's when they cut away, NaNiWa left the booth (presumably to go to the bathroom). "
2. The replay incident After going to the toilet Naniwa is said to have loaded up the replay of the game that was aborted. (This is known because his screen apparently was shown on a large screen visible to the audience) This is not strictly against MLG rules and he could already see the build order on the game ending screen. An Admin went into his booth and told him to stop. At this point Naniwa had already seen Nestea`s build.
MLG statement "After extensive investigation, review of the video files and 2011 Pro Circuit rules, we have determined that the replay had no impact on the tournament flow or the match results. Build orders are displayed at the end of a match on the stats screen. So the replay that was viewed would have revealed nothing the match stats page would not have revealed otherwise.
Redditt witness: "NaNiWa got back before NesTea (I believe), but in any case, he quickly pulled up the replay from the match before anybody could stop him. As soon as the official on the stage realized, he went into the booth to tell him to stop, but it was too late, NaNiWa had already seen the starting position of NesTea."
3. The second attempt at playing game 3 After quite some time game 3 was remade and they started playing. Naniwa moved a probe across the map (thinking for some reason that the map was cross positions only) and when he got to where he assumed Nestea would be (but was not) he paused the game. Some background here: Earlier MLG events used to have this map be only cross positions. This has later been changed and now adheres to the Blizzard ladder versions rules to positions.
Then this happened: Naniwa reacted strongly and claimed that a admin had said to him that the map was cross positions only. According to Sundance this was not correct:
"He made a mistake then claimed it was the ref.Hhe picked before our admin even went into the booth. Some maps have crosses some do not. He chose one thinking that it was a cross position map when it wasn't. Not a big deal in the end but annoying none the less."
So here we have two different versions of what went down.
4. The "Coach" incident Apparently to calm the situation down and to make Naniwa ready to continue playing, MLG staff allowed the Player Manager (Not Coach) of Complexity gaming, Scott Ford to enter Naniwa`s booth. He was there to relay what MLG had decided. No regame and that it was his fault I can only assume. Then after a while the game was restarted.
MLG Statement about the incident: "Additionally, to clarify, the Complexity manager was allowed in the booth, accompanied by MLG staff, after the match had started in order to keep the game in motion after a discrepancy with his player that would have impacted the continuation of the game."
Reddit Eye witness: "I could see the lead admin guy ask and look at all of the other officials on the stage, to which people were shaking their heads, as if everyone was agreeing that nobody told him this. At that point, the official went back in the booth to break the bad news to NaNiWa. NaNiWa was PISSED, visually repeating "NO, NO, NO!". It was apparent that he felt cheated, which I believe that he actually was. If he was told cross spawns, and it wasn't, that could seriously mess up your entire game, and in my opinion, the game should have been replayed."
5. Naniwa being punished by MLG. MLG have two different rulesets that applies to these kind of situations. You have the event rules, and the conduct rules.
Naniwa did break the pause game rules. He paused the game without asking the referee. This gets you a WARNING. A WARNING is largely inconsequential. It only matters if you get more warnings and may lose you the game you are playing. They do not stay with the player throughout the event.
"Each subsequent Warning that a Player receives will result in a Forfeit of the Game"
Slasher at first said that Naniwa got a technical foul from his quotes. He later withdrew that statement. https://twitter.com/#!/SLASHER
At this point Naniwa has not gotten a technical foul but should at least by the rules have gotten a warning, that does not really matter for later matches. He may get a technical foul for calling MLG a joke tournament and for the thumbs down ceremony. It is worth noting that many other ceremonies and statements of similiar character has gone unpunished at earlier MLG events and in this one.
#2 The first attempt at playing game 3
The game was mistakenly started by the casters while the admin was still in the booth talking to players. Nestea was taken off guard, had to rush back to get his keyboard (etc) ready. It was a false start one could say and the commissioner decided to restart so both players had a fair and even start.
3. The second attempt at playing game 3
Naniwa misunderstood the admin (complete miscommunication that I personally attribute to the language barrier). The game was paused as Naniwa refused to play.
4. The "Coach" incident
I personally went to the crowd and got Scott and escorted him to the booth. Why? Naniwa was about to be DQ'd for refusing to play due to the miscommunication. I stood there as Scott told him he had to play.
5.
Naniwa did receive a technical for various infractions.
On November 21 2011 01:20 Snowen wrote: Theres one major fault I have to mention, and please tell me why this doesnt make sense..
You have MLG, the 2nd biggest tournament in the world.. Probably the biggest non-korean gaming organization being run in the world.. This is their 8th or so MLG for SC2, so its not like its new to them..
WHY IS THE PLAYER HOSTING THE MAP??
Does this make sense to anyone else? I haven't done much in SC2 tournaments, but for WC3 I used to be a manager and for every WC3L or other tournament we ran, when the player lost and chose his next map, he wasn't allowed to host, the admin always hosted. Now I realize this is different as in BW/WC3 the server gave a lag edge to the host, but still.. A player should NEVER be the one hosting a map, that way if there IS an issue with the wrong map being host, it should always fall on the shoulders of the admins of the game.
That just didnt make sense to me. Artosis or whoever was casting/streaming should always be the one hosting.
Players select the map, not host.
You misunderstood what I meant.. Of course players choose what map they want to play on.. By why are they hosting??
In just about every tournament I have been involved with; after the game for example After Naniwa lost, he would msg the admin saying "Shakuras next" and the admin would make the game and invite the two players.
That way its fair for everyone. Who is to say some MLG someone will have a map with fixed spawn position cheats or something happening if he makes the game?
Naniwa is playing good, even if he's BM. We can't defend Nestea just because he has 3 GSL titles and Tastosis calls him a God. Nestea lost 2 Bo3's and nothing in his playstyle suggested he was the better player...
It´s a shame that MLG has to send a guy ( thx adam for sorting this out) to stop this kind of shitstorm. It´s like in Kindergarten, when a Nanny has to come, coz you can´t decide who had the toy in the first place. -.-
On November 21 2011 01:20 Snowen wrote: Theres one major fault I have to mention, and please tell me why this doesnt make sense..
You have MLG, the 2nd biggest tournament in the world.. Probably the biggest non-korean gaming organization being run in the world.. This is their 8th or so MLG for SC2, so its not like its new to them..
WHY IS THE PLAYER HOSTING THE MAP??
Does this make sense to anyone else? I haven't done much in SC2 tournaments, but for WC3 I used to be a manager and for every WC3L or other tournament we ran, when the player lost and chose his next map, he wasn't allowed to host, the admin always hosted. Now I realize this is different as in BW/WC3 the server gave a lag edge to the host, but still.. A player should NEVER be the one hosting a map, that way if there IS an issue with the wrong map being host, it should always fall on the shoulders of the admins of the game.
That just didnt make sense to me. Artosis or whoever was casting/streaming should always be the one hosting.
Players select the map, not host.
You misunderstood what I meant.. Of course players choose what map they want to play on.. By why are they hosting??
In just about every tournament I have been involved with; after the game for example After Naniwa lost, he would msg the admin saying "Shakuras next" and the admin would make the game and invite the two players.
That way its fair for everyone. Who is to say some MLG someone will have a map with fixed spawn position cheats or something happening if he makes the game?
He didn't host it...
Then why is MLG trying to blame Naniwa when he was told the map was cross-position, and your admins host a map that doesn't have cross-position?
Im just trying to understand why Naniwa is blamed for this..
I thought this thread was initially going to be about all the drama he caused for not knowing that shakuras wasn't cross spawns only.
NVM reading all the comments it does actually seem to be what this is about. Honestly though, I believe this is sort of a global confustion. Everyone in the crowd was telling me that all maps were close spawns well before this series was underway. I thought they were wrong as it makes no sense for shak to be cross spawns only but a lot of fans seemed to be insistent on that. Maybe one of the MLG girls by the brackets was saying something different? Or mass idiocy, i dunno
On November 21 2011 01:45 Darkmatter799 wrote: Naniwa is the foreigner beast guys who cares lol
Naniwa cares, you can see it from his tweets, i just hope the hate will not influence his games today.
i think its more that complexity cares, wouldnt want to have negative pr ruin the image of ur star player and ur team now would we
I didn't know you live in Naniwa's heart to know how he feels...........
English isn't even his 1st language and he was obviously talking about a specific incident of the drone pulling. You've been shitting on Naniwa all day, maybe put your personal grudge aside or something dude.
On November 21 2011 01:45 Darkmatter799 wrote: Naniwa is the foreigner beast guys who cares lol
Naniwa cares, you can see it from his tweets, i just hope the hate will not influence his games today.
i think its more that complexity cares, wouldnt want to have negative pr ruin the image of ur star player and ur team now would we
I didn't know you live in Naniwa's heart to know how he feels...........
English isn't even his 1st language and he was obviously talking about a specific incident of the drone pulling. You've been shitting on Naniwa all day, maybe put your personal grudge aside or something dude.
i think i know naniwa better than u bro, if only i was low enought to tell u all the storys that ive heard about him
On November 21 2011 01:45 Darkmatter799 wrote: Naniwa is the foreigner beast guys who cares lol
Naniwa cares, you can see it from his tweets, i just hope the hate will not influence his games today.
i think its more that complexity cares, wouldnt want to have negative pr ruin the image of ur star player and ur team now would we
I didn't know you live in Naniwa's heart to know how he feels...........
English isn't even his 1st language and he was obviously talking about a specific incident of the drone pulling. You've been shitting on Naniwa all day, maybe put your personal grudge aside or something dude.
i think i know naniwa better than u bro
I never claimed to know Naniwa, so I don't assume stupid shit about him and give him the benefit of the doubt. You know, just like how I don't assume that TT1 is still a hacker and should be disqualified from tourneys because he hacked once in the past.