• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:31
CEST 15:31
KST 22:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence2Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups1WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia7Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time
Tourneys
WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion Playing StarCraft as 2 people on the same network [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group C [ASL20] Ro16 Group B [IPSL] ISPL Season 1 Winter Qualis and Info! Is there English video for group selection for ASL
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1522 users

Is sc2 a spectator friendly Esport ?

Forum Index > Closed
Post a Reply
1 2 3 4 Next All
Aterons_toss
Profile Joined February 2011
Romania1275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 13:48:02
November 12 2011 13:15 GMT
#1
Hello team liquid
I am making this post since recently i heard a lot of talk about starcraft ( 2 ) being a great spectator "esport" since you can actually be a spectator for the game and play very rarely or not at all.
I personally never understood how you can enjoy a game like sc2 as a spectator only nor i did enjoy sc2 when i was a noob ( in RTS games n.w ) simply because i had no idea why the pros where doing what they were doing and how the units comp interacted with each other ( not to even mention the fact that i did not knew in what proportion upgrades/economy/structures where relevant to the state of the game i was watching ).
Recently however i began to enjoy watching sc2 more and more simply because I understand how the game works better and better with every passing month ( due to staying in front of my PC to much )
Now you could say that some of the player that watch the pros are not master or even diamond due to lacking the mechanics/they don't even play the game ( since they enjoy watching more then playing ) but even then someone who has enough knowledge in sc2 to understand the game at a pro level should easily be at least on a platinum if not diamond or low master EVEN with shitty mechanics.
Further more i more then often see things such as this :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfnPBdajg-w - a Jinro vs Choya game where Choya has almost no eco and they both have a huge army, Jinro has obviously won and Day9 + Wheat are hyping a final battle which can only end with Jinro coming out ahead due to him having 20 + production building and a complet MMM ghost viking ball vs zealot archon colossus ( which is a pretty un fair fight when the terran has the high ground and toss can't even warp in zealot or archons near the spot of the engagement.
I highly doubt that a " GM in all 3 races player " that is day9 believed Choya stood any chance of wining other then Jinro disconnecting.... so whats all the hype for ?
There are many other examples of caster hyping up players micro when the true story of the game is when the timing of there attacked hit or the units comp/upgrades they had ( or even the position they forced there opponents army into ) or when the game is actually over and the player is microing for showoff/ to be sure he doesn't loss in some stupid way to something he did no saw due to getting to much of his army killed in the "final battle".

Basically my questions for you are the following:
- Do you enjoy watching/think other ppl enjoy watching sc2 without actually ?
- If you do thing that there are ppl or if you idd are someone who watches sc2 without understanding much of what goes behind the pro player thought process then why do you actually enjoy/think they enjoy that kind of game over watching a 4v4 or some random master/diamond player ?

Also adding some pools
Poll: Who are you in sc2 1v1 and how do you watch pro sc2 1v1 matches ?

I watch it and i am a mid level ( plat-master ) player (170)
 
48%

I watch it and im a low level player ( bronze-plat)/don't play sc2 1v1 at all (96)
 
27%

I watch it and i am pretty decent at the game tho not a pro ( high master/GM level in 1v1 ) (56)
 
16%

I don't watch it and i am pretty decent at the game tho not a pro ( high master/GM level in 1v1 ) (9)
 
3%

I watch it and i am a pro player (8)
 
2%

I don't watch it and i am a mid level ( plat-master ) player (7)
 
2%

I don't watch it and im a low level player ( bronze-gold)/don't play sc2 1v1 at all (4)
 
1%

I don't watch it and i am a pro player (4)
 
1%

354 total votes

Your vote: Who are you in sc2 1v1 and how do you watch pro sc2 1v1 matches ?

(Vote): I watch it and im a low level player ( bronze-plat)/don't play sc2 1v1 at all
(Vote): I watch it and i am a mid level ( plat-master ) player
(Vote): I watch it and i am pretty decent at the game tho not a pro ( high master/GM level in 1v1 )
(Vote): I watch it and i am a pro player
(Vote): I don't watch it and im a low level player ( bronze-gold)/don't play sc2 1v1 at all
(Vote): I don't watch it and i am a mid level ( plat-master ) player
(Vote): I don't watch it and i am pretty decent at the game tho not a pro ( high master/GM level in 1v1 )
(Vote): I don't watch it and i am a pro player


Poll: How much do you understand the mathces ?

I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on (147)
 
60%

I don't always understand the new tactics/meta game shifts but other than that i get whats going on (83)
 
34%

I onyl understand it at a mid-ish level ( aka upgrades are good, expansions are good..etc ) (10)
 
4%

I don't understand pretty much anything except for who won the games/battles (4)
 
2%

I only understand it at a "who microed better" " who has more suply" level (1)
 
0%

245 total votes

Your vote: How much do you understand the mathces ?

(Vote): I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on
(Vote): I don't always understand the new tactics/meta game shifts but other than that i get whats going on
(Vote): I onyl understand it at a mid-ish level ( aka upgrades are good, expansions are good..etc )
(Vote): I only understand it at a "who microed better" " who has more suply" level
(Vote): I don't understand pretty much anything except for who won the games/battles


Poll: What type of sc2 caster do you like the most?

Analytic caster ( Artossis ) (141)
 
53%

I like casters that combine the 2 ( Day9 ) (98)
 
37%

Play by play/shouts a lot caster ( Total biscuit/Dj Wheat ) (13)
 
5%

I don't care much about the casters/like all of them evenly (12)
 
5%

264 total votes

Your vote: What type of sc2 caster do you like the most?

(Vote): Analytic caster ( Artossis )
(Vote): Play by play/shouts a lot caster ( Total biscuit/Dj Wheat )
(Vote): I like casters that combine the 2 ( Day9 )
(Vote): I don't care much about the casters/like all of them evenly


Poll: You think sc2 is a "noob" friendly Esport to watch

Yes compared to FPS, fighting and moba games (91)
 
45%

Yes compared to moba games (39)
 
19%

Yes compared to fighting and moba games (18)
 
9%

I belive its the most noob "undfriendly" of all 4 popular "esport:" game genders (15)
 
7%

Yes compared to moba and FPS games (14)
 
7%

Yes compared to fighting games (7)
 
3%

(5)
 
2%

Yes compared to FPS games (4)
 
2%

(4)
 
2%

Yes compared to FPS and fighting games (3)
 
1%

(2)
 
1%

(2)
 
1%

204 total votes

Your vote: You think sc2 is a "noob" friendly Esport to watch

(Vote): Yes compared to fighting games
(Vote): Yes compared to moba games
(Vote): Yes compared to FPS games
(Vote): Yes compared to fighting and moba games
(Vote): Yes compared to moba and FPS games
(Vote): Yes compared to FPS and fighting games
(Vote): Yes compared to FPS, fighting and moba games
(Vote): I belive its the most noob "undfriendly" of all 4 popular "esport:" game genders
(Vote):
(Vote):
(Vote):
(Vote):




EDIT: There is no Dual cast option since that i obviously the favored of 99% and the best certainly ( not to mention that dual caster is used for almost every tournament ), i rather want to know which caster are you liking more from a duo
( lots of ppl asking and i now see that i forgot to mention it in the post )
A good strategy means leaving your opponent room to make mistakes
Broodwurst
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany1586 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 13:19:45
November 12 2011 13:19 GMT
#2
low level player, don't play much
watch a lot
i prefer the 2 caster setup (1 analytical, 1 play-by-play) , not mentioned in your poll
Fanboys = (ウ╹◡╹)ウ /// I like smiley faces
Nemireck
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1875 Posts
November 12 2011 13:21 GMT
#3
On November 12 2011 22:15 Aterons_toss wrote:
I highly doubt that a " GM in all 3 races player " that is day9 believed Choya stood any chance of wining other then Jinro disconnecting.... so whats all the hype for ?


It's a caster's job, in all sports, to try and keep the game interesting and entertaining for the viewer, even if it's a blow-out.
Teamwork is awesome... As long as your team is doing all the work!
Shox85
Profile Joined May 2011
Germany33 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 13:23:52
November 12 2011 13:23 GMT
#4
I play ~5 Games daily in Diamond League and watch GSL and other big tournaments like MLG.
I like Artosis and Tasteless the most.
Derity
Profile Joined May 2009
Germany2952 Posts
November 12 2011 13:24 GMT
#5
FPS like Quake (Duel) are far easier to understand/follow, but team based FPS like CS have pretty much the same problem as MOBA (DotA, LoL, HoN).

I barely play SC2 (fucking old machine) but I follow quite a lot of the tournaments.
kopi
Profile Joined April 2011
Australia17 Posts
November 12 2011 13:26 GMT
#6
If someone is about to lose after one last fight sports commentators generally don't completely over hype it as in here 'OMG if he just wins this one fight then he can etc etc.', it's more like 'choya is fighting very well here but jinro should close it out in this last battle'
soulist
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States932 Posts
November 12 2011 13:29 GMT
#7
The reason that they hype it up is that people will still be interested in the game. Its their job to keep the game interesting at all times. Which is why at the beginning of the games they dont focus much on the game and just talk about other things like the previous game because there isnt anything interesting at the beginning of the game. If you dont like casters overhyping things then i suggest you stop watching all sports because any caster will do this....
Evil Geniuses<3
Aterons_toss
Profile Joined February 2011
Romania1275 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 13:32:13
November 12 2011 13:29 GMT
#8
On November 12 2011 22:21 Nemireck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 12 2011 22:15 Aterons_toss wrote:
I highly doubt that a " GM in all 3 races player " that is day9 believed Choya stood any chance of wining other then Jinro disconnecting.... so whats all the hype for ?


It's a caster's job, in all sports, to try and keep the game interesting and entertaining for the viewer, even if it's a blow-out.

1 Thing is to keep the game interesting in a manner of " this player could come back if X and that might just happen right now if Y " like Artosis does and to scream louder when a nuke lands over an army that was killed then you screamed when the actual game ended ( Jinro did some shit and killed most of Choya base... don't remember exactly what but you can find the VOD on mlg tv )

On November 12 2011 22:26 kopi wrote:
If someone is about to lose after one last fight sports commentators generally don't completely over hype it as in here 'OMG if he just wins this one fight then he can etc etc.', it's more like 'choya is fighting very well here but jinro should close it out in this last battle'

pretty much this ^

To give a personal example when one of my country teams was getting owned 2-0 by Manchester the caster were idd still saying that they "might" have a chance to come back but they were not trying to act like the match is not over yet when it was 2-0 the ball was in our team court and 30 sec of the match were left/
A good strategy means leaving your opponent room to make mistakes
soulist
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States932 Posts
November 12 2011 13:31 GMT
#9
On November 12 2011 22:26 kopi wrote:
If someone is about to lose after one last fight sports commentators generally don't completely over hype it as in here 'OMG if he just wins this one fight then he can etc etc.', it's more like 'choya is fighting very well here but jinro should close it out in this last battle'


what is the fun in that? just look at all movies, they make these dramatic scenes where it looks like the hero is going to die but you know he really isnt because he is the hero. its hyping the situation and making it unpredictable so that the viewer can be entertained. Its basic knowledge of entertainment.
Evil Geniuses<3
pusmoh
Profile Joined January 2011
Germany75 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 13:35:31
November 12 2011 13:32 GMT
#10
On November 12 2011 22:19 Broodwurst wrote:
low level player, don't play much
watch a lot
i prefer the 2 caster setup (1 analytical, 1 play-by-play) , not mentioned in your poll


The same for me, don't play 1v1.
Also, the combination of one analytical caster and one good play by play caster is by far the best imo, dApollo plus Totalbiscuit is my favourite combo.

I think SC2 is a great spectator sport. Even if you have never seen a game of sc2 before you can see what both players are doing so you get it pretty fast.
I've watched some fps and you don't understand anything the players are doing, cause the camera follows only one of 10 or so players and there's no overview so if you've never played that map you don't know what's going on.
yoigen
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany369 Posts
November 12 2011 13:34 GMT
#11
I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on (18)

69%


hahhahhhahahahahaahahahhaha
Today I didn't even have to use my AK, I gotta say it was a good day.
soulist
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States932 Posts
November 12 2011 13:36 GMT
#12
Your poll about which caster you like the most, the best casting duo in all of e-sports is tastosis because artosis brings the analysis and tasteless brings the hype and makes the game interesting. They also have been casting with each other for so long that they can feed off each other and talk about things while the game is boring like you see them do all the time. I think the best single caster is day[9] simply because he has the analysis (being a 10 year bw player, probably the best foreigner), hes a funny guy, and he can hype up a game like you saw him do with jinro vs choya.
Evil Geniuses<3
Netsky
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1155 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-12 13:37:39
November 12 2011 13:36 GMT
#13
No one should be selecting this option for question 2:

I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on

-_-
Enervate
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1769 Posts
November 12 2011 13:36 GMT
#14
"I have as much understanding as the pro level player of what's going on."

LOOL. I like how everyone chooses that option. Expect inaccurate results. If you understood the game like a pro, you would be a pro. Period.
Netsky
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia1155 Posts
November 12 2011 13:38 GMT
#15
On November 12 2011 22:36 soulist wrote:
Your poll about which caster you like the most, the best casting duo in all of e-sports is tastosis because artosis brings the analysis and tasteless brings the hype and makes the game interesting. They also have been casting with each other for so long that they can feed off each other and talk about things while the game is boring like you see them do all the time. I think the best single caster is day[9] simply because he has the analysis (being a 10 year bw player, probably the best foreigner), hes a funny guy, and he can hype up a game like you saw him do with jinro vs choya.


I'm a huge fan of Day9, but I don't think anyone thought he was the best foreigner
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
November 12 2011 13:39 GMT
#16
I consider SC2 to be as friendly as it gets since you don't have to focus on 10 people at once (well we're talking about the high-level players right now, where SC2 is just 1v1). I'm a low-leagued player and even I can understand what's going on tactically most of the time. I'm better comparatively in LoL than at SC2, and I can understand more of SC2 than LoL sometimes. In general, it's an easy-to-learn, hard-to-master type of game where there's something for everyone.
kiss kiss fall in love
SkimGuy
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada709 Posts
November 12 2011 13:41 GMT
#17
I do think SC2 is not as good of a spectator sport as BW was (I was actually going to ask this to State of the Game but they never took my question), but that's just because the playstyle is not as evolved as it was in BW. Once the better players switch over and learn aggressive timings/builds, it will be much more exciting than droning up for the first 10 minutes then throwing 200/200 armies at each other
cilinder007
Profile Joined August 2010
Slovenia7251 Posts
November 12 2011 13:42 GMT
#18
On November 12 2011 22:36 Enervate wrote:
"I have as much understanding as the pro level player of what's going on."

LOOL. I like how everyone chooses that option. Expect inaccurate results. If you understood the game like a pro, you would be a pro. Period.

thats not true, ever heard of mechanics ?
Gotmog
Profile Joined October 2010
Serbia899 Posts
November 12 2011 13:44 GMT
#19
On November 12 2011 22:34 yoigen wrote:
I have an understanding as good as the pro player themself of whats going on (18)

69%


hahhahhhahahahahaahahahhaha

yeah...well, its only natural to expect that every1 thinks they understand the game.

Anyway.
I am one of those who don't play...only on occasion, or when i get into that....in-the-mood week. However, i watch streams/tournaments daily.
"When you play the game of drones, you win or you die. There is no middle ground"
Vindubs
Profile Joined May 2010
United States110 Posts
November 12 2011 13:44 GMT
#20
thanks for giving me another reason to go to MLG prov.
Stephano,Sase,Naniwa HWAITING!
1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Wardi Open
11:00
Mondays #51
WardiTV605
Harstem296
OGKoka 258
Rex154
CranKy Ducklings130
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko321
Harstem 285
OGKoka 250
Rex 147
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9731
Bisu 4102
Rain 3561
Sea 2342
EffOrt 749
actioN 734
BeSt 705
Stork 322
Hyun 270
firebathero 222
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 185
ZerO 181
Zeus 176
Soulkey 139
Pusan 118
Mong 103
Rush 99
Sharp 90
Mind 90
ggaemo 83
Barracks 74
hero 56
Sea.KH 50
JYJ48
PianO 47
Aegong 38
Movie 25
soO 19
Terrorterran 18
yabsab 16
SilentControl 12
zelot 10
Bale 10
sSak 10
Noble 9
Sacsri 9
Shine 5
Hm[arnc] 4
Dota 2
singsing3661
Dendi1303
BananaSlamJamma382
Fuzer 255
Counter-Strike
x6flipin527
byalli260
oskar95
markeloff86
edward11
Super Smash Bros
Westballz21
Other Games
gofns15214
tarik_tv12476
olofmeister942
B2W.Neo811
hiko382
crisheroes379
XaKoH 248
QueenE52
Mew2King47
Liquid`VortiX45
NeuroSwarm37
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Afreeca ASL 4898
UltimateBattle 120
lovetv 16
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 10
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis1741
• Jankos643
Other Games
• Shiphtur133
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
2h 29m
OSC
10h 29m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 29m
Afreeca Starleague
20h 29m
Light vs Speed
Larva vs Soma
PiGosaur Monday
1d 10h
LiuLi Cup
1d 21h
RSL Revival
2 days
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
2 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
4 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
5 days
BSL Team Wars
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Online Event
6 days
Wardi Open
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 20 Team Wars
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL Polish World Championship 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.