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On May 03 2005 03:58 XaI)CyRiC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2005 19:50 MoltkeWarding wrote:
Hah...you seem to suffering from some sort of dillusioon that lets you think somehow people at tl.net "respect" "beauty"....funny. Nothing wrong with people admiring an attractive person. Nothing wrong with a boyfriend being proud of his attractive girlfriend and willing to show pictures of her to people. How is this different from a parent going around showing pictures of their children to anyone who's interested? If anyone has reacted improperly to her pictures other than to ask for more pictures because they find her to be "hot" or whatever other form of "attractive" was used, then I failed to see it. Say something when the pictures are posted on a porn website or something, this is a gaming community for crying out loud. It seems that you suffer from some sort of delusion that makes you think people care about your opinion or that it holds any sort of value at all. Seriously, if you can come up with all these "issues" that a guy has for showing pictures of his attractive girlfriend, then how many can you come up with for a guy who has such a huge stick up his ass that he has to say the girlfriend looks like a man and can do nothing but criticize people for admiring an attractive person. Forget delusion, it seems like the case of someone who spends all his time looking for faults in others to avoid his own. Sure that's a huge assumption, but it's no worse than your posts on this topic so far. I'll admit my earlier debate in this thread was off-topic and brought the mood down, but it was in response to another dispute. Your posts are the cause and the perpetuating factor of this particular digression, and this time there seems to be no one who remotely supports your position (how could any reasonable person do so?).
What's the difference between a guy showing pictures of an adolescent girlfriend and a baby on a gaming board predominated by sexually frustrated men? Except for people like Baal, there's a considerable difference.
As for my delusions, it seems you're suffering from the same delusions, or maybe it's a normal thing to do...to post one's opinions on forums without having them cited as evidence of figurative sticks up one's ass.
Pride and vanity aren't the exact same thing, that may be his point -- in which case debating it is an alternative.
Hah...did you read Pride and Prejudice? 
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On May 03 2005 13:21 MoltkeWarding wrote:Hah...did you read Pride and Prejudice?
No...
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United States4471 Posts
Point remains, it's up to Trident and his gf to determine what they feel comfortable with. You may think that this forum is populated by adolescent sex fiends who will do inappropriate things with the pictures (not sure what those things would be), but apparently Trident and his gf do not. So far there have been no inappropriate comments made by anyone on this board regarding the pictures, the closest thing would be your comment about her looking sorta like a man (and I don't think even that really counts). Fact is that there has been no evidence of any impropriety by anyone on this board, beyond the "improper" (by your perception) posting of the pictures.
Sure everyone's entitled to their opinion, but they're also entitled to have that opinion criticized. I haven't banned you or erased any posts, feel free to go on denouncing Trident for his posts of his gf if you feel so inclined. It is, however, my opinion, and many others', that there is nothing wrong with what he's done, and that you are being quite presumptuous by suggesting there's something wrong with Trident as a person or that his relationships has issues based solely on the fact that he posted pictures of her on this forum. So, yes, the fact that you reacted the way you did does indeed suggest to me that you have a figurative stick up your ass. But hey, that's just my opinion.
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By the way these are me cats.
Oo
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United States4471 Posts
On May 03 2005 05:13 Shiv wrote:By the way Cyric I disagree. I may not be reasonable though. But he's expressing his views, and Trident overreacts again and again. He overreacted ever since the first comment -- which is something I quite don't understand. If you've made the choice to post your picture, and someone else's picture (not his wife's or children's, his girlfriend's) on an internet board, then you have to accept the fact that you'll be criticized in your very choice. Moltke is wrong if he thinks his opinions will have any effects on these boards, right. But his intentions are pretty good if you ask me. Pride and vanity aren't the exact same thing, that may be his point -- in which case debating it is an alternative. edit: btw, if you aren't supporting his position, why don't you post a picture of you then? I don't think anyone would mind
I'm not sure where Trident overreacted, are you referring to him saying that he's not going to post anymore pictures if it upsets Moltke so much? If so, I don't see that as much of an overreaction at all. He didn't have much of a reaction to when Moltke said his gf looked sorta like a man either, so I still don't see what you're referring to.
I'm not going to presume to know what his intentions are or why he feels the way he does, but he does seem to have a problem with something that isn't inherently wrong the way he makes it out to be. But, again, this is just my opinion.
And I don't see how me not supporting his position would lead to me posting my own picture. Trident and his gf have nor problems having their pictures shown on the forums, I have my own reasons for my reluctance to do so that have nothing to do with pride or vanity. They're both consenting adults who understand the implications of what they're doing, I don't see why anyone would presume to judge their character based on such harmless acts.
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United Kingdom10597 Posts
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Cyric's right, it's not a big deal. If Trident and his girlfriend don't mind, and it's not harming anyone, then what's the problem?
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United States4471 Posts
On May 03 2005 13:51 Shiv wrote:By the way these are me cats. Oo
Cool, synchronized feline napping 
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On May 03 2005 13:39 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
Point remains, it's up to Trident and his gf to determine what they feel comfortable with. You may think that this forum is populated by adolescent sex fiends who will do inappropriate things with the pictures (not sure what those things would be), but apparently Trident and his gf do not. So far there have been no inappropriate comments made by anyone on this board regarding the pictures, the closest thing would be your comment about her looking sorta like a man (and I don't think even that really counts). Fact is that there has been no evidence of any impropriety by anyone on this board, beyond the "improper" (by your perception) posting of the pictures.
Sure everyone's entitled to their opinion, but they're also entitled to have that opinion criticized. I haven't banned you or erased any posts, feel free to go on denouncing Trident for his posts of his gf if you feel so inclined. It is, however, my opinion, and many others', that there is nothing wrong with what he's done, and that you are being quite presumptuous by suggesting there's something wrong with Trident as a person or that his relationships has issues based solely on the fact that he posted pictures of her on this forum. So, yes, the fact that you reacted the way you did does indeed suggest to me that you have a figurative stick up your ass. But hey, that's just my opinion.
As far as the internet goes, standards of "appropriateness" do not exist. I was not even making a serious statement in my original post, I was simply rationalizing the good which may have resulted from my earlier post. Yes, it had elements of irony and seriousness to it, and also my characteristic insensitivity, but none of it was meant as an insult.
Because I have no stake in this, the issue is not really important enough for me to bother about, but since you want to make the case against me, I feel equally obliged to present my own point of view:
Read the comments on p. 35 and 38. And read trident's responses. I opine that 1) The majority of those responses do not come anywhere close to standards of decency that Tien would lead us to believe exists in this thread. 2) At the risk of presumption, trident takes obvious satisfaction in such comments, hence his eager willingness to "share" more of these photos.
The problem I have with this are:
1) Boasting by exhibiting your girlfriend through the internet is the basest form of vanity. Because
a) Vanity is always sinful as a rule, in this case propagating approbation which feeds one's self-esteem
b) He is boasting of merits which aren't his own
c) The merits, where they do exist in the eyes of certain posters, appeal to the basest carnal instincts
d) It shows a disturbing disinterest in privacy
Now, none of these things are improper, and indeed they are, here and there, fairly common things in post-modern society.
However you must excuse my own little dream world consisting of bourgeois values and outdated ideals. It is because I react against these things that I hold that unique point of view: just because they are not "inappropriate" and "common" does not make them right; on the contrary, they may be symptoms of things very wrong in our society. I am not questioning freedom of choice. But freedom of choice implies that they may be either good or evil, and good choices seem in short supply these days precisely because people, in Kiekegaard's words, demand freedom of speech as substitute for freedom of thought which they rarely exercise. You are wrong in stating that I think my opinion to be of such esteem that it deserves to be flaunted before the prestigious members of tl.net. I've always been of the mind that quality of opinion is a self-evident thing, if it does have merit, it does not deserve to be chastised out of suspicion for their motives.
As for the opinion thing, I do not care for it, but just to point out what you said:
It seems that you suffer from some sort of delusion that makes you think people care about your opinion or that it holds any sort of value at all.
Implication: "No one cares what you think. STFU." Apparently over the course of a good sleep you've had a change of heart and felt that I'm perfectly right to express myself, for which I can only thank providence.
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United States4471 Posts
In this particular topic on this particular issue, I'm going to still stick with the "No one cares what you think" translation of my words because it's essentially true. I'm not sure where the "STFU" part comes in unless you do in actuality post only when you think people care what you're saying or feel that it has value.
Feel free to go on with your denunciations that make Trident and his gf seem like sinful people who have demonstrated traits that are what's wrong with the world today, just don't expect people to agree or think that it really matters in this instance. Your "outdated ideals" were just being applied too critically to a situation that did not require it. No one's telling you to change your mind, but don't go imposing your personal morality upon other people and then question their character when they don't meet your standards. Share your opinion, but don't be surprised when you offend people when you do it while looking down on them from your pulpet.
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On May 03 2005 14:34 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
In this particular topic on this particular issue, I'm going to still stick with the "No one cares what you think" translation of my words because it's essentially true. I'm not sure where the "STFU" part comes in unless you do in actuality post only when you think people care what you're saying or feel that it has value.
Feel free to go on with your denunciations that make Trident and his gf seem like sinful people who have demonstrated traits that are what's wrong with the world today, just don't expect people to agree or think that it really matters in this instance. Your "outdated ideals" were just being applied too critically to a situation that did not require it. No one's telling you to change your mind, but don't go imposing your personal morality upon other people and then question their character when they don't meet your standards. Share your opinion, but don't be surprised when you offend people when you do it while looking down on them from your pulpet.
Well I don't think you speak for everyone, and as far as caring goes, you obviously care enough to make such denounciations of my character- to which I take no offense as you would equally accuse me of.
Thus when you state that no one cares about my opinions, it lacks any purpose except to tell me to stop posting them, and incidentally by your very response you encourage their continuation. Such is the questionable discrepency between act and purpose.
Now you presume a fairly great determination on my part when you state that I try to impose my morality on other people. Such would be an overestimation of my powers. I also don't see why I should not question other peoples' standards.
Insofar as you don't debate my very reasoning for criticism, I'm assuming your only problem is with my statement of them. And you seem to waver on that too. If you state that I should say what I think, then what is your problem?
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United States4471 Posts
Okay I'm going to have to make this quick as I have to leave now. I apologize that I may not be able to respond to any response to may make to this post now, not very fair to post and run.
As to my problem with your posts, it stems from your denunciations of Trident and his gf because they don't feel that sharing their pictures on this forum was a bad thing. It's a presumptious pose because you drew from his posting of his gf's pictures a rather harsh conclusion about his character and his relationship with his gf.
Yes, I am saying you should feel free to post your opinion. Yes, I am also saying that your opinion doesn't hold much weight or value in this instance to your audience because it really seems extreme and unnecessarily harsh. So I'm saying you have a right to express your opinion, but don't expect people to take it well when your opinion is what it is. You have a right to say what you want, but it doesn't mean that you should. In this instance you had and have a right to say what you want about what you think about Trident's posts, but it's my opinion that you could have held these particularly harsh opinions to yourself because it was unnecessarily harsh and presumptuous.
It's comparable to walking in on a bunch of kids having fun playing videogames, and saying "videogames are a pox upon society and has huge negative impacts upon our youth... I question the character of people who play videogames all day and your relationships with your family" and then having that lead to the ceasing of the gaming. Sure, the opinion may be right and there is a right to express it, but it's not a stretch for smeone to say it was unnecessarily harsh and really is a bit presumptuous and probaby could have been withheld. No one was being hurt by what was going on and no one was being offended, why say what you said?
My opinion may be wrong and feel free to say so. Again, "STFU" was not part of my posts, just criticism of your criticisms.
P.S. Sorry for again being a participant in a discussion that is off-topic and taking away from the actual purpose of showing pictures to each other. Just a character flaw of mine I suppose.
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Moltke, why are you against freedom of expression?
It's not like he's showing porn. If a girl posted pictures of herself, you wouldn't argue but he already said she doesn't mind so what's the difference?
You seem to think that you have some kind of authority over his actions.
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On May 03 2005 15:10 XaI)CyRiC wrote:
Okay I'm going to have to make this quick as I have to leave now. I apologize that I may not be able to respond to any response to may make to this post now, not very fair to post and run.
As to my problem with your posts, it stems from your denunciations of Trident and his gf because they don't feel that sharing their pictures on this forum was a bad thing. It's a presumptious pose because you drew from his posting of his gf's pictures a rather harsh conclusion about his character and his relationship with his gf.
Yes, I am saying you should feel free to post your opinion. Yes, I am also saying that your opinion doesn't hold much weight or value in this instance to your audience because it really seems extreme and unnecessarily harsh. So I'm saying you have a right to express your opinion, but don't expect people to take it well when your opinion is what it is. You have a right to say what you want, but it doesn't mean that you should. In this instance you had and have a right to say what you want about what you think about Trident's posts, but it's my opinion that you could have held these particularly harsh opinions to yourself because it was unnecessarily harsh and presumptuous.
It's comparable to walking in on a bunch of kids having fun playing videogames, and saying "videogames are a pox upon society and has huge negative impacts upon our youth... I question the character of people who play videogames all day and your relationships with your family" and then having that lead to the ceasing of the gaming. Sure, the opinion may be right and there is a right to express it, but it's not a stretch for smeone to say it was unnecessarily harsh and really is a bit presumptuous and probaby could have been withheld. No one was being hurt by what was going on and no one was being offended, why say what you said?
My opinion may be wrong and feel free to say so. Again, "STFU" was not part of my posts, just criticism of your criticisms.
P.S. Sorry for again being a participant in a discussion that is off-topic and taking away from the actual purpose of showing pictures to each other. Just a character flaw of mine I suppose.
Yes, I know that I'm like that. Earlier I had thought as much and decided to withdraw from the conversation, but somehow I got pulled back in it.
It depends on your entire purpose of communication: do you post solely for the purpose of encouraging people, boosting their esteems, and making them delighted with themselves?
Or do you say things regardless of their effects, so long as they are in your estimation of some importance? I say things frankly, insensitively, and try to minimize prejudice, and while it may be wrong in some ways, it is right in some ways too.
You say that I am being extreme. I am not being extreme. I am only being extreme relative to the broad position of public opinion. In my view, it is I who am moderate and people who believe that we can ignore every bad thing that occurs around us, and give approbation to the mediocre, simply because they abstain from the bad, who are extreme. They are extreme in their unwillingness to see the obvious, and extreme in their unwillingness to judge.
Moltke, why are you against freedom of expression?
It's not like he's showing porn. If a girl posted pictures of herself, you wouldn't argue but he already said she doesn't mind so what's the difference?
You seem to think that you have some kind of authority over his actions.
I'm against what? I'm not against freedom of expression. I'm against instances where people misuse their freedoms of expression.
Of course I hope that he would reconsider the propiety of doing something like this, probably won't. I'm saying what I think because it's better than saying what I don't think.
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Moltke, just as you have every right to express your opinion, Trident has every right to post pictures of HIS girlfriend that AGREED for it to be ok. Just as you have every right to express your opinion and tell people they're wrong, everyone else has just as much right to express their opinion and tell you that you're full of shit.
Just chill out. No harm is being done here. Cyric spoke up with good intentions in mind. All you seem to be wanting to do is cause controversy. It may be your right to, but it's everyone else's right to tell you that you're out of line. Again, RELAX. No one is getting hurt here, everything was all fine and dandy until, surprise surprise, you spoke out. Even if you're right in all of your opinions and everyone else is being insane extremists, it STILL isn't causing any harm to anyone.
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is awesome32277 Posts
Just dont ruin the thread and post pics.
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On May 02 2005 13:04 jtan wrote:Just reainstalled the webcam. Beat this.
hahahaha thread saver!!!
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Moltke already wanked all over this thread.
Its ruined.
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On May 03 2005 13:51 Shiv wrote:By the way these are me cats. Oo
I though it was a face =(, boy do i feel stupid now. Nice cats btw.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img201.echo.cx/img201/8121/cats2jg.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img34.echo.cx/img34/3203/jtan18dk.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img34.echo.cx/img34/3360/jtan26yg.jpg)
