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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Cutlery
Norway565 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:23 cYaN wrote: Am I understanding the fungal change right? From 36 (46,8 vs armor) to 30 (40 vs armor)? quite certain that you are correct sir  | ||
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Technique
Netherlands1542 Posts
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arbitrageur
Australia1202 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:26 _Search_ wrote: When Terran drops we drop 360-500 hp worth of units. When Protoss drops they drop 600 hp worth of units and immediately warp in more. This Warp Prism buff is far too good. I see you've considered all variables in your thorough analysis. Very well done. Lmao. | ||
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n0ise
3452 Posts
No clue about the rax nerf, but they definitely need to reduce Pre-Igniter cost, since most likely it's only gonna be an issue in TvT Also, HSM is gonna be m4d | ||
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Talin
Montenegro10532 Posts
I don't like it. It's like a kneejerk patch. :/ | ||
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enecateReAP
United Kingdom378 Posts
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eighteen8
105 Posts
i was using warp prism before anyways, but it doesnt matter b/c the army gets fungal'd to death anyways... so its just a gimick a change in energy cost or fungal in general would have helped more :/ and ultralisk buildtime reduction of 15sec....jesus christ | ||
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Brainiac
Poland641 Posts
Other than that its a buff ofc. | ||
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MilesTeg
France1271 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:13 Fiel wrote: Here's how the fungal change affects units: PROTOSS: Probe: No change Zealot: No change Stalker: No change Sentry: No change HT: No change DT: No change Immortal: 7 --> 8 Colossus: 8 --> 9 Archon: 10 --> 12 Obs: No change Warp Prism: 3 (at 140 total HP) --> 5 (at 200 total HP) Phoenix: 5 --> 6 Void Ray: 6 --> 7 Carrier: 10 --> 12 Mothership: 15 --> 18 ZERG: Drone: No change Zergling: No change Baneling: 1 --> 2 (due to regen) Roach: No change Hydra: No change Infestor: No change (due to regen) Ultra: 11 --> 13 Overlord: 5 --> 6 (due to regen) Overseer: 5 --> 6 (due to regen) Mutalisk: 4 --> 5 (due to regen) Corruptor: 5 --> 6 (due to regen) Brood Lord: 5 --> 6 TERRAN: Marine: No change Marauder: 3 --> 4 Reaper: No change Ghost: 3 --> 4 Hellion: No change Siege Tank: No change Thor: 9 --> 10 Viking: 3 --> 4 Medivac: No change Raven: 3 --> 4 Banshee: 4 --> 5 Battlecruiser: 12 --> 14 THEREFORE: The Fungal nerf will have little change in ZvP. Making phoenix clouds take more fungals won't affect too much. Protoss can get Phoenixes out faster than Zerg can get out infestors anyway. Making void rays require 7 fungals doesn't change much either as VRs tend to clump. Also, FFE into Stargate (MC build) will have Stargate units hitting before Infestors as well. The biggest change I foresee is the greater viability of drops in PvZ because it takes more damage to kill the Warp Prism. In ZvT there will be a big impact. Making Banshees now require 5 fungals means Zergs will have to get spore crawlers to fight against banshees and not rely on chain fungals to deal with air. Actually, now that all air units require more fungals to kill, that means fewer fungals to deal with MMM. Making HSM have faster speed also means that clumps of infestors will be wiped out as they can't run away with their slow speed. Infestors are far less viable in ZvT simply because of this nerf to Fungal. I don't foresee much issue with the larger units like Battlecruisers, Archons, or Colossus taking more fungals since Zergs prefer to NP these anyway. I'm already tired of reading this... it just doesn't work that way. 1) In ZvP fungal growth works in conjonction with the rest of your army. You don't just chain FG until they all die while doing nothing with your roaches and zerglings. 2) Even if you don't take into account the damage done by other units, the fact that they die slower is a big deal. More time for the protoss to damage your army. The number of FG used on Stalkers or Roaches is not that relevant... the huge DPS nerf, however, is. | ||
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Copenap
723 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:26 Amui wrote: When you drop 360-500 worth of units, if we are out of position, we lose a critical techstructure and a handful of probes, even if we run instantly. When protoss drops 600hp of zealots, you run workers losing maybe 1 because you aren't used to protoss drops, and possibly a techlab or a supply depot before your production kicks in. If protoss can drop 4+6, you'll easily have 5 barracks pumping stuff out, and clean up with ease. You forget how cost efficient your stuff is against gateway in small numbers. You do know that you have this abillity that makes you build units basicly anywhere on tha map right? | ||
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_Search_
Canada180 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:24 Dsn4001 wrote: But medivac doubles as a healer, and stimmed units are much faster than gateway units. And Stalkers have more range, speed and single hit damage than marines, making it easier for them to shut down drops. Warp Prism harass, especially early game, is already so deadly. The unit is fine as it is, tosses just need to learn to use it and not cry when they lose it. I wish medivacs only cost 200 minerals. | ||
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
How many hits more do they need on workers, lings, zealots, marines? | ||
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HinagikUx
United States178 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:21 _Search_ wrote: When Terran drops we drop 360-500 hp worth of units. When Protoss drops they drop 600 hp worth of units and immediately warp in more. This Warp Prism buff is far too good. hope im not being biased, but the unit comp for drops of terran is way more effective than toss units. Stim can chase and kill workers faster, medivac healing makes defending drops behind a mineral line very difficult. Bad comparison | ||
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Fus
Sweden1112 Posts
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Partypants
Australia50 Posts
The rax nerf i truly don't understand + the helions wtf ? now the t v t is going to resort back to boring MMM/tank/viking | ||
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HinagikUx
United States178 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:30 _Search_ wrote: And Stalkers have more range, speed and single hit damage than marines, making it easier for them to shut down drops. Warp Prism harass, especially early game, is already so deadly. The unit is fine as it is, tosses just need to learn to use it and not cry when they lose it. I wish medivacs only cost 200 minerals. youre retarded, terran is least gas-based race, 200 min medivacs would be a nerf to the race lol. Thats why many korean pros were saying that the ghost change from 150/150 to 200/100 was actually a nerf. WP wasnt as fine as it was, and harass is a bonus. More people are using warp prism as a means to avoid emp by carrying HT, but this strat was so incredibly risky of the T had vikings in the army. Now its more do-able, and a way to escape ghost emp, which many think is OP to begin with.. | ||
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d33p
France27 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:21 _Search_ wrote: When Terran drops we drop 360-500 hp worth of units. When Protoss drops they drop 600 hp worth of units and immediately warp in more. This Warp Prism buff is far too good. Yeah sure except maybe the fact that your medivac can heal yo? The WP change is nice. | ||
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sleepingdog
Austria6145 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:32 Partypants wrote: Warp prism being buffed is well over-due. Finally all 3 races can have viable dropping options. The rax nerf i truly don't understand + the helions wtf ? now the t v t is going to resort back to boring MMM/tank/viking Hellion was way too coinflippy - u line em up? Well, GG sir, see you next game. It was funny for a while, but even pro-gamers mostly failed miserably at defending. Which means, that it's just too hard. I don't want to see games decided by who gets more lucky with his hellions. | ||
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TheAwesomeAll
Netherlands1609 Posts
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Golgotha
Korea (South)8418 Posts
On August 25 2011 17:34 sleepingdog wrote: Hellion was way too coinflippy - u line em up? Well, GG sir, see you next game. It was funny for a while, but even pro-gamers mostly failed miserably at defending. Which means, that it's just too hard. I don't want to see games decided by who gets more lucky with his hellions. yup. nestea had good splits against MVP's hellions but still he got toasted too quickly | ||
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