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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 93

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
arbitrageur
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia1202 Posts
August 25 2011 08:20 GMT
#1841
On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
General
Unit vision up ramps has been reduced by 1.

Shakuras ZvP vs Forge FE.

2 Zerglings can now only get 2 scouts up the ramp instead of 4.
Joseph123
Profile Joined October 2010
Bulgaria1144 Posts
August 25 2011 08:20 GMT
#1842
On August 25 2011 16:39 Doler wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 16:37 sickoota wrote:
Massive nerfs to blink stalkers in PvP, pvp is the only place where the time it takes to research blink is really at issue (1base blink in PvZ is insanely risky and not very commonly used). The ramp change also sounds like you need to be 1 hex farther up the ramp, and considering the blink style of poking up the ramp to focus units without losing any of your own, the build just got alot less viable. Back to colossus wars!


Yea I'm also sad about this. With the immortal range buff and the blink time research longer, blink in PvP will be much harder And blink was the part that made pvp a good matchup lately imo

Or the beginning of phoenix wars?
NDsOdapOp
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom60 Posts
August 25 2011 08:20 GMT
#1843
its not actualy that big of a nerf for infestores. marines still die in 2 fungals, roaches still die in 4.
imba, imba world
kusto
Profile Joined November 2010
Russian Federation823 Posts
August 25 2011 08:21 GMT
#1844
On August 25 2011 17:19 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
Hey dont know if anyone spoted this but this is huge also:

Fixed an issue where Drone attacks could be more easily dodged than SCV or Probes.

O RLY BLIZZARD? AFTER 1 YEAR, YOU ACTUALLY FOUND TIME TO FIX IT?


Ironically, Drones need it the most when defending cannons/bunkers earlygame.
the game is the game
decemvre
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania639 Posts
August 25 2011 08:21 GMT
#1845
On August 25 2011 17:19 MyNameIsAlex wrote:
Hey dont know if anyone spoted this but this is huge also:

Fixed an issue where Drone attacks could be more easily dodged than SCV or Probes.

O RLY BLIZZARD? AFTER 1 YEAR, YOU ACTUALLY FOUND TIME TO FIX IT?



This is actually the 2nd time they try to fix it. Lets hope the drones don't implode when trying to attack this time.
decemberTV
_Search_
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada180 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 08:22:21
August 25 2011 08:21 GMT
#1846
On August 25 2011 17:18 Elefanto wrote:
It's hilarious how people complain about the Warpprism getting buffed, because they fear that protoss will be able to harass and they have to pay attention on the minimap and start multitasking.



When Terran drops we drop 360-500 hp worth of units.

When Protoss drops they drop 600 hp worth of units and immediately warp in more.


This Warp Prism buff is far too good.
ShotgunMike
Profile Joined May 2011
Sweden241 Posts
August 25 2011 08:21 GMT
#1847
First of, I play mostly zerg (hence my name) but I play quite a lot of random as well so I do play all races. However, I am a strictly low-level player and will answer as such (gold 1v1, plat 2v2).

Vision up ramps: Interesting, this could perhaps educe the 4gate craziness in PvP on maps with ramps to main base (if this makes it more difficult to warp-in past force fields).

I'm unsure about the Immortal buff. This will make it more difficult with roaches and it seems to mostly solve a micro-issue (the immortal getting stuck behind stalkers) in the ZvP matchup. Perhaps it has other impacts on PvP and PvT but I feel that the Immortal is already a pretty good unit.

Mothership changes: don't really care, but why does Protoss have a hero unit by the way?

Warp Prism: I agree with this. Perhaps a speed buff would have been better, 100 shield sounds like a lot but we will see.

I agree with all Terran changes. (I enjoyed the subtle Bunker nerf/delay )

Overseer: Cost change is good. Don't agree with the contaminiation change but perhaps Blizz is afraid of some mass-contaminate strategies.

Ultralisk: Finally. I very seldom switch to Ultra but now if the production time is shorter I will consider it more often.

Infestor: This I find slightly disturbing. I know a lot of high-level players in US and EU have been complaining but for me the Infestor has been the best anti-air options in early mid-game. Now I will need one more fungal to kill vikings and banshees. That can make a huge difference.
Hot_Bid: "B10" - ThorZain: "BINGO" - Naniwa: "Apologize! ¤%#¤#&¤% Terran IMBA"
arbitrageur
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia1202 Posts
August 25 2011 08:21 GMT
#1848
On August 25 2011 17:12 Lurk wrote:
The 5s increased rax build time is gonna majorly screw standard build orders for terran as you'll either have to get a 16th worker before OC or let your CC sit idle for 5s.


It's not going to screw anything. OC delayed by 5 seconds.. that's like 20 minerals or something worth of a mule.
Caphe
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Vietnam10817 Posts
August 25 2011 08:22 GMT
#1849
Look likes this PTR patch was before the 1/1/1 become really popular in TvP. I mean 5 sec delay is not gonna stop 1/1/1 but screw up so many Terran's other build order .

What they need to do is leave the Barrack build time alone, increase addon time and siege morde research time and all are well .
Terran
cYaN
Profile Joined May 2004
Norway3322 Posts
August 25 2011 08:23 GMT
#1850
Am I understanding the fungal change right?
From 36 (46,8 vs armor) to 30 (40 vs armor)?
Cutlery
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway565 Posts
August 25 2011 08:24 GMT
#1851
Dunno if it has been said, but blue flame hellion nerf has to be exactly 5 damage for it to make sense. Clearly it is to stop blue flamers from 2 shotting workers, and if the blue flame upgrade were to be +6 or +7 damage instead of +5, then terran and zerg would have an advantage over protoss, in that probes get 2-shot while drones and SCVs get 3-shot. Also this means that blue flame matters not when killing probes or drones. Yellow flames and blue flamers are equally dangerous. Clearly this means an end to blue flame drop in the mineral line, but hellion play is far from dead; just early blue flame harass to do ridiculous eco damage has been stopped. Don't know if it was needed at the highest levels of play. Hellions are easy enough to control off of 2 base on all ladder maps (maybe not the case for tournament maps) so this is partly to help those without 150apm to not auto lose to blue flamers every time, and for tournament maps to be allowed to evolve.

Other than that, hellions only lose their potency vs zealots, basically. Hydras still get 4shot (just need +1 upgrade, and mech attack upgs scale better than armor upgs), lings get 2 shot, sentries get 2 shot still (? +1 upg but then theres guardian shield, so, sentries potentially can survive 3 hits if the protoss pays attention), but yeah, it is a nerf vs drone lines and vs zealots that need multiple hits to die. To an extent I don't know how well terran can deal with mass zealots now. Vs a ball of MMM obv zeals are rarely great, but Deffinitely protoss can probably get away with slightly more, if they surround correctly (which isnt too hard with charge, tho many still fail alot it seems), it's the same as a buff for zealots in pvt i feel. Ah, and I havent considered the changes in TvT, but hellions were never awesome at killing marines, marines actually now take 3 shots to kill before health upg, but after health upg it still takes 3 shot regardless of which patch you play. So it is an early-game nerf in TvT you could say.

Honestly I always found it ridiculous for a unit to receive +10 damage from a single upgrade. On paper it is just OP, and the +5 damage both makes more sense, and it disscourages suiciding 10 blue flamers into eco lines hoping to do crippling damage without careful unit control; it will still be a viable tactic, but you need a little positioning to get that one extra hit off on all the workers, also hellion suicide squads will no longer wait for blue flame; blue flame will become a mid/lategame upgrade to control ling (and zealot/hydra/sentry and possibly be used like baneling bombs on the main army aswell, and not just on mineral lines)
Dsn4001
Profile Joined July 2010
Korea (South)106 Posts
August 25 2011 08:24 GMT
#1852
On August 25 2011 17:21 _Search_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 17:18 Elefanto wrote:
It's hilarious how people complain about the Warpprism getting buffed, because they fear that protoss will be able to harass and they have to pay attention on the minimap and start multitasking.



When Terran drops we drop 360-500 hp worth of units.

When Protoss drops they drop 600 hp worth of units and immediately warp in more.


This Warp Prism buff is far too good.


But medivac doubles as a healer, and stimmed units are much faster than gateway units.
Lurk
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany359 Posts
August 25 2011 08:25 GMT
#1853
The blueflame change will have the following effects:

Drones/Probes: 3 hits instead of 2 (same as w/o BF)
SCVs/Marines: 3 hits instead of 2 (4 w/o BF)
Zerglings: Still 2 hits (3 w/o BF)
CS-Marines: Still 3 hits (4 w/o BF)
Zealots: 9 hits instead of 7 (12 w/o BF)

So BF will be useless for worker harassment vZ and vP. This is kind of stupid since the main issue was vT ? Anyway, i think you'll see a lot less BF.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 08:27:49
August 25 2011 08:25 GMT
#1854
On August 25 2011 17:21 MikeTheZerg wrote:
Infestor: This I find slightly disturbing. I know a lot of high-level players in US and EU have been complaining but for me the Infestor has been the best anti-air options in early mid-game. Now I will need one more fungal to kill vikings and banshees. That can make a huge difference.

I think it'll mostly just mean that you should spam infested terrans instead of using JUST fungals. Not too big of a deal IMO.

On August 25 2011 17:25 Lurk wrote:
The blueflame change will have the following effects:

Drones/Probes: 3 hits instead of 2 (same as w/o BF)
SCVs/Marines: 3 hits instead of 2 (4 w/o BF)
Zerglings: Still 2 hits (3 w/o BF)
CS-Marines: Still 3 hits (4 w/o BF)
Zealots: 9 hits instead of 7 (12 w/o BF)

So BF will be useless for worker harassment vZ and vP. This is kind of stupid since the main issue was vT ? Anyway, i think you'll see a lot less BF.

Terran can research it along with +1 vehicle weapons and you can once again 2-shot workers. BFH are still gonna be insanely good vs speedlings
:)
xinxy
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada116 Posts
August 25 2011 08:25 GMT
#1855
On August 25 2011 17:21 MikeTheZerg wrote:
Mothership changes: don't really care, but why does Protoss have a hero unit by the way?


You must have the mothership confused with the one from Alpha... You know a single BC can take it out 1 on 1 right?
Evil will always triumph because good is dumb.
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
August 25 2011 08:26 GMT
#1856
Honestly, hellion change was a sad thing for me, but after thinking about it, it is ok i guess.

What IS annoying is the rax time 5 second increase.....it will seriously have major impacts on MANY things.....I think almost all the guides written before this 1.4 patch will be outdated lol...


Bu other than that its ok i guess
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Mysticesper
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1183 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 08:26:34
August 25 2011 08:26 GMT
#1857
On August 25 2011 17:08 MandoRelease wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 10:14 awu25 wrote:
Raven
Seeker missile movement speed increased from 2.5 to 2.953.


LOL wut ? How did Blizzard come up with that speed ? I'd be interested to know the tool used for their calculations.


they use 64ths for their numbers.

61/64 = .9531.

its just easier to write in decimal form since you cannot easily create nicely formatted fractions on the web.

arbitrageur
Profile Joined December 2010
Australia1202 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 08:27:45
August 25 2011 08:26 GMT
#1858
On August 25 2011 17:25 Lurk wrote:
So BF will be useless for worker harassment vZ and vP.

It's still good. Z still compelled to roach for large BF harass styles cus lings will melt.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
August 25 2011 08:26 GMT
#1859
On August 25 2011 17:21 _Search_ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 25 2011 17:18 Elefanto wrote:
It's hilarious how people complain about the Warpprism getting buffed, because they fear that protoss will be able to harass and they have to pay attention on the minimap and start multitasking.



When Terran drops we drop 360-500 hp worth of units.

When Protoss drops they drop 600 hp worth of units and immediately warp in more.


This Warp Prism buff is far too good.


When you drop 360-500 worth of units, if we are out of position, we lose a critical techstructure and a handful of probes, even if we run instantly. When protoss drops 600hp of zealots, you run workers losing maybe 1 because you aren't used to protoss drops, and possibly a techlab or a supply depot before your production kicks in. If protoss can drop 4+6, you'll easily have 5 barracks pumping stuff out, and clean up with ease. You forget how cost efficient your stuff is against gateway in small numbers.
Porouscloud - NA LoL
decemvre
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania639 Posts
August 25 2011 08:28 GMT
#1860

So BF will be useless for worker harassment vZ and vP. This is kind of stupid since the main issue was vT ?


This made me lol so hard.
decemberTV
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