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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 10 2011 10:45 Gegenschein wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 10:34 Shikyo wrote:On September 10 2011 10:32 Gegenschein wrote:On September 10 2011 10:29 Shikyo wrote:
I really wonder if that change is going to be in live.
Neural is pretty much the only answer Zerg has traditionally had vs Colossus. Corruptor-Roach-Hydra into Broodlords was always protoss-favored. Zerg is going to still be able to use the Infestor for its other abilities so it might be okay in the end. Guess we'll have to wait and see, I still believe that the change is a bit radical. Maybe we don't watch the same games (I've found a thing called the GSL, it's pretty nice), but were I come from the traditional answer to colossi is corruptors. Did you read my post? Try the second sentence. On September 10 2011 10:33 Gegenschein wrote:On September 10 2011 10:31 GinDo wrote:On September 10 2011 10:26 Gegenschein wrote:
List of rarely useful spells in SC2, at pro levels:
-Neural parasite (infestor),
-2500mm strike cannon (thor),
-Seeker missile (raven) - maybe not anymore,
-Mass recall (mothership),
-Vortex (mothership).
List of rarely useful spells in BW, at pro levels:
-Ensnare (queen),
-Infest command center (queen),
-Restoration (medic),
-Optic flare (medic),
-Lock down (ghost),
-Cloak (ghost),
-EMP (science vessel),
-Hallucination (high templar),
-Feedback (dark archon),
-Maelstrom (dark archon),
-Mind control (dark archon),
-Disruption web (corsair).
I'm not all for that neural parasite nerf, all I'm saying is relax, guys, not all spells in the game have to be useful all the time.
There's nothing I enjoy more in BW than seeing a pro taking a unit/spell seen in 0.1% of the games, and making it work. LOL EMP never used?!? Did you not watch BW. How the hell did you deal with Arbiters? My bad, sorry. But you'll admit I do have a point. Most of those spells were still strong, the actual reason they were rarely used is that it's too APM-intensive especially with the BW interface. I beg to differ. It's not all a question of APM. Some units that don't require much APM at all are never used in BW. Would you say devourers take a lot of APM? Or phoenixes? Reaver drops, on the contrary, are crazily APM intensive, yet you see them quite often. If it's effective, a Korean pro will find a way to pull it off, don't you worry.
I'm saying they'd be used much more often if the game had SC2 interface. And you seem to overestimate Korean players, even the best players in SCBW make tons of noticeable mistakes every single game.
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On September 10 2011 10:38 Protosnake wrote:Show nested quote +Fixed.
While I understand the frustration Zergs must feel at having their race nerfed, there is absolutely no way a balanced matchup can consistently produce results like VTgiX 3-2 HuK, Strifecro 2-1 JYP, MorroW 10-1 Puzzle or w/e the final score was, Destiny 3-1 Puzzle, Destiny 2-0 STAce. You literally never hear about lower tier Protoss players beating world class Zergs. Wouldn't you be asking for drastic balance changes if you saw results like Attero beating Losira, Deezer beating Nestea, etc? Hell, many Zergs were even preemptively claiming that if Inca took any games off of Nestea in the code S final it would be proof of Protoss being too strong, and the skill gap there is probably about 1% as large as the skill gap between Destiny and Puzzle, for example. Yes the NP nerf sounds drastic on paper, but really, when a matchup is in this state (and has been ever since April), it's not gonna be fixed by changing the build time of random stuff by 5 seconds. I already responded that the best player do not always win. But let me respond to this another way, let's admit ZvP is Z favored, like officialy. Is it ok to "fix it" by promoting a stupid style of play which involve a build that can deal with anything and thus allow the P to not scout at all, like, PvZ month ago ? NPing colossus is on the protoss fault, they both have 9 range, a colossus placed at the back of the army will force infestor to get sniped in melee range, in both case it punish bad micro If anything should be done it's buffing archon/HT so we can reward a more reactive playstyle Instead this nerf promote a blind, static playstyle which isnt punished by lack of micro and a-moving
The problem is that a lot of zergs current play style is basically the same thing. They don't scout and just mass up infestors which are great for harass, attacking, defending, stopping drops. They are the end all, be all unit for zerg, the other units are purely fucking throw away units until you make broodlords.
Either way one of the races will be playing a stupid style that can just straight mass up one unit that beats everything. It's dumb either way.
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On September 10 2011 10:41 anrimayu wrote:
btw, there is a transcript of chat log that went on between David Kim and couple korean progamers. It's pretty interesting to read, but there's no source on it as it looks like someone just c&p onto wordpad.
Link please :o
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On September 10 2011 10:37 _-NoMaN-_ wrote:
Just a thought;
Protoss options against Infestor: 1-templar (feedback) and 2-phoenix (graviton, *breaks neural*)
Zerg options against col after patch: 1- corrupter 2- ...., ......, .......................
Option for terran against colossi 1 viking 2 ..................
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On September 10 2011 10:46 atavus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 10:23 Arisen wrote:On September 10 2011 08:50 iamke55 wrote:On September 10 2011 08:25 ReignFayth wrote:
every protoss on europe gets demolished by stephano and morrow currently, and he abuses infestor like destiny, except his mechanic is probably much better Fixed. While I understand the frustration Zergs must feel at having their race nerfed, there is absolutely no way a balanced matchup can consistently produce results like VTgiX 3-2 HuK, Strifecro 2-1 JYP, MorroW 10-1 Puzzle or w/e the final score was, Destiny 3-1 Puzzle, Destiny 2-0 STAce. You literally never hear about lower tier Protoss players beating world class Zergs. Wouldn't you be asking for drastic balance changes if you saw results like Attero beating Losira, Deezer beating Nestea, etc? Hell, many Zergs were even preemptively claiming that if Inca took any games off of Nestea in the code S final it would be proof of Protoss being too strong, and the skill gap there is probably about 1% as large as the skill gap between Destiny and Puzzle, for example. Yes the NP nerf sounds drastic on paper, but really, when a matchup is in this state (and has been ever since April), it's not gonna be fixed by changing the build time of random stuff by 5 seconds. Can we agree that ZvP before zergs really started using infestors, Zerg versus Protoss was stupid? Protoss won every game that went to 4 base and most that went to 3. NP gave zerg a way to deal with colossus that wasn't corrupter, now we won't have that. It's going to be mass colossus every game and it's going to go back to the same ZvP we had a few months ago; that is to say, massively in favor of the protoss. It hasn't been that long since infestors were discovered. Pull up any thread about zerg from the release to about 2 months ago and it was pretty much saying colossus based protoss armies were too strong and needed to be nerfed, while protoss players defended them. A month or so of infestor builds and the same build every protoss has been relying on since release still hasn't been nerfed and the build zergs have been having success for a month or so with the infestor builds, they're already hit SO hard with the nerf bat that it's rediculous. Wouldn't you be frustrated if you were in the zergs position, where you know ZvP is going back to the same old style that we've been getting raped in for almost a year? What I find kind of funny in your comment is that NP don't change since age, the spell everyone start to use was fungal to get some sweet AoE & prevent any micro from toss. The DoT actually become sufficient to kill a deathball without too much loss, now it's thanks to NP that all those change happened. Serouilsy get your history straight but stop making point that thanks NP for what fungal did just because you don't want a nerf on NP.
Infestors weren't very good before the patch, so spending so much gas on them was stupid. There's a reason zergs didn't make many infestors pre patch.
Of course I don't want the NP nerf; Roach/Corrupter is very, very in favor of protoss, I don't want the matchup to be horrible again?
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The problem is that a lot of zergs current play style is basically the same thing. They don't scout and just mass up infestors which are great for harass, attacking, defending, stopping drops. They are the end all, be all unit for zerg, the other units are purely fucking throw away units until you make broodlords.
Either way one of the races will be playing a stupid style that can just straight mass up one unit that beats everything. It's dumb either way.
I dont see that much zerg not scouting and getting away with it, but i think chargelot archon dont counter the zerg enough, that's why i suggested archon/ht buff :
Let's make archon immune to neural and increase HT Speed/range/Something
Suddenly both race need to scout, react and micro their casters, matchup quality increased by 200%
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It's funny people say the race that has to be the most reactive DOESNT scout. That's just stupid, the fact of the matter is blizzard made the infestor into a crutch that zerg had to get in a lot of situations. It's simply poor game design regardless of balance stats, the games just look ugly when you see such a small variety of compositions and infestors get leaned on as support over and over.
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On September 10 2011 10:32 FLuE wrote:
The one thing I wish they would do more of to create balance, and perhaps we have to wait for the expansion to see things like this, would be that when something is a problem to deal with instead of just taking it away, making another counter to it.
So for example, I feel like SC2 is sorely missing cleansing type units. They had these in WC3, basically units(or spells for that matter) which remove negative effects.
So like instead of nerfing NP so it can't affect colossus, have sentries have a spell that would remove fungal/NP/phoenix lift/concussive shell effects from a unit. This is just an example, it could be the templar that had those spells but you get the idea. Adding another element or micro/counter to the counter would add more depth.
The same would go if for example medivacs could cast an AOE spell that would remove fungal but take up all their energy. It would be a massive tradeoff, but could save your units.
It is just to me something the game lacks, right now the counters to spell casters are all hoping your spell caster get to their spell caster first, and whoever does wins.
Right now the exchange is -> infestor vs. templar. I got my fungal off before feedback I win. Or I got my feedbacks off before you fungaled I win. Or infestor v. death ball - I got my NP off on your colossus I win. You sniped my infestors before I could NP you win.
It would be cool to see the exchange go more like -> infestor vs. templar. I got my fungal off on your templar or NP off but you cast "cleanse" with your sentry allowing your templar to cast again or taking the NP off your colossus and you then are able to feedback the infestor or snipe it.
There just isn't much depth in the caster play right now, and I think the most impressive thing to me is seeing how pro players handle their caster units and micro them. Just a thought.
Well that is one idea but in the grand scheme of things, I think one of the biggest problem in SC2 is how spellcasters directly counter each other compared to how spellcasters in BW sort of indirectly countered each other. The dependence of them winning their micro war against the opposing spell caster is just far too big (and often the winner wins the fight outright).
When one looks at BW, a missed plague or irridate does not lose you the game (with a few exceptions). BW spellcasters are there to aid your army to gain an advantage in the battle but normally the outcome of the battle is dependent on positioning and micro/macro. The spells COULD aid you in the battle but dont decide the battle all together which is what we see in SC2.
Id really love to see a defiler/science vessel, or science vessel/arbiter love/hate relationship going on in SC2 with the new spell casters but I dont think we will ever see this.
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What I think is really dumb about the NP nerf is that I never use NP even against Collo-deathballs and I've been telling myself to do it for a while (I just fungal them like everything else) because, though harder to pull off, is much more effective. Now I'm being rewarded for playing lazier
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On September 10 2011 08:01 GTLAllDayEveryDay wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 07:54 cHaNg-sTa wrote:
I don't understand why the Hydra hasn't been changed yet. No one builds these units anymore and it's just pathetic to see everything get nerfed/buffed while the Hydra has been sitting in its corner for ages.
NP change is gonna be pretty bad for Zerg in ZvP. Just means huge colossus armies need to revert back to corruptors or an overwhelming amount of roaches. It's nearly impossible to kill a colossus based army with ling infestor without NP unless you just have an overwhelming amount of units.
It's just a bit much when you think about it. P and T have anti caster abilities (emp and feedback) but since NP can be "too difficult" to deal with, they want to nerf it because people can't EMP/Feedback infestors fast enough? What about cloaked ghosts just wakling 2 inches within a protoss army and just EMPing everything into insta gg? Ghost being 100 gas is a complete joke. I couldn't disagree more. Hydras are very situational. Every race has a situational unit -- reaper, immortal, battlecruiser, carrier, zealot, etc... Hydras serve their purpose well, not every unit needs utility in the current metagame. Neural parasite was overpowered because at any instant , a 200 vs 200 food army can easily become a 250 vs 150 food army. With the speed of templar compared to the speed of the rest of the protoss army, there's an extremely diffuclt juggling act when decided how far to move one with respect to the other. Move tempalrs in too early and youg et sniped by roaches, move them int too late and you get your colossus NPd and feedback becomes useless on infestors since they already used their energy. Ghosts require much more careful control than any zerg unit. I think ghost only need a TvP nerf -- something like with each shield upgrade, EMP deals 10->20->35% less damage.
Zealots are situational..? Please..
Hydras are awful against Terran.
Hydras are ok in ZvZ but most people favor roach infestor.
Hydras have a small timing window against protoss before Colossus. But now that Colossus can't be neural'd, you bet there be a trend back to Colossus more. Thus making Hydras back to abysmal after early-mid game.
Considering how many units Zerg has (especially AA units), Hydras need to be revamped badly. It just gets hard countered way too easily.
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On September 10 2011 10:33 Toadvine wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 10:22 Umpteen wrote:
I can't help thinking we wouldn't be having these arguments if Zerg were able to do what it's supposed to do and actually mass units, and had a versatile core unit that wasn't a caster. The problem is that Blizzard completely misunderstood BW Zerg. They heard "swarm race, tons of units", and thought "well, let's give them infinite larvae". But that's totally not what Zerg was about in BW. In ZvT, for example, Zerg is usually like 30 supply behind in the midgame. Thing is, Zerg had some extremely cost-effective units in BW, because larvae-efficiency was a very real factor there. Zerglings were easily the most cost-effective early unit, and absolutely insane with adrenal glands. However, they cost a lot of larvae, so you couldn't just spam them constantly without investing a ton of money into extra hatches. In SC2, you can make infinity lings off 2 hatcheries, because you get tons and tons of larvae without really having to invest into your production. A Queen produces larvae 50% faster than a Hatchery, while costing half as much. Imagine if a Protoss could pay 75 minerals to morph a Gateway into Super Gateway, which would produce units 2,5x as fast. Well, that's what Zerg got in SC2. That's the reason you can't have good units.
Well, no: that's the reason we can't have good zerglings. That doesn't explain the unpleasantly hollow feeling Zerg has in SC2, which I'm convinced has distorted win-rates at at least some levels and made balancing the game harder than it needed to be.
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They also don't mention Broodlords giving vision when attacking from high ground either, must be old patch notes
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On September 10 2011 10:50 Arisen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 10:46 atavus wrote:On September 10 2011 10:23 Arisen wrote:On September 10 2011 08:50 iamke55 wrote:On September 10 2011 08:25 ReignFayth wrote:
every protoss on europe gets demolished by stephano and morrow currently, and he abuses infestor like destiny, except his mechanic is probably much better Fixed. While I understand the frustration Zergs must feel at having their race nerfed, there is absolutely no way a balanced matchup can consistently produce results like VTgiX 3-2 HuK, Strifecro 2-1 JYP, MorroW 10-1 Puzzle or w/e the final score was, Destiny 3-1 Puzzle, Destiny 2-0 STAce. You literally never hear about lower tier Protoss players beating world class Zergs. Wouldn't you be asking for drastic balance changes if you saw results like Attero beating Losira, Deezer beating Nestea, etc? Hell, many Zergs were even preemptively claiming that if Inca took any games off of Nestea in the code S final it would be proof of Protoss being too strong, and the skill gap there is probably about 1% as large as the skill gap between Destiny and Puzzle, for example. Yes the NP nerf sounds drastic on paper, but really, when a matchup is in this state (and has been ever since April), it's not gonna be fixed by changing the build time of random stuff by 5 seconds. Can we agree that ZvP before zergs really started using infestors, Zerg versus Protoss was stupid? Protoss won every game that went to 4 base and most that went to 3. NP gave zerg a way to deal with colossus that wasn't corrupter, now we won't have that. It's going to be mass colossus every game and it's going to go back to the same ZvP we had a few months ago; that is to say, massively in favor of the protoss. It hasn't been that long since infestors were discovered. Pull up any thread about zerg from the release to about 2 months ago and it was pretty much saying colossus based protoss armies were too strong and needed to be nerfed, while protoss players defended them. A month or so of infestor builds and the same build every protoss has been relying on since release still hasn't been nerfed and the build zergs have been having success for a month or so with the infestor builds, they're already hit SO hard with the nerf bat that it's rediculous. Wouldn't you be frustrated if you were in the zergs position, where you know ZvP is going back to the same old style that we've been getting raped in for almost a year? What I find kind of funny in your comment is that NP don't change since age, the spell everyone start to use was fungal to get some sweet AoE & prevent any micro from toss. The DoT actually become sufficient to kill a deathball without too much loss, now it's thanks to NP that all those change happened. Serouilsy get your history straight but stop making point that thanks NP for what fungal did just because you don't want a nerf on NP. Infestors weren't very good before the patch, so spending so much gas on them was stupid. There's a reason zergs didn't make many infestors pre patch. Of course I don't want the NP nerf; Roach/Corrupter is very, very in favor of protoss, I don't want the matchup to be horrible again?
My point isn't about infestor very good before patch but all the damn hypocrisy about NP being the hyper spell against toss when te spell that has popularised infestor play is the 1.3 patch fungal.
Zerg after that discover that NP & IT are also amazing & have many use
Which they was denying by :
"Infestor can't NP colossi they get kill before launching the spell" proven wrong
"infestor NP are bad against mecha"proven wrong
"IT are not cost effective for harass" proven wrong
etc................
Now all zerg are like "what can we do if they take away our super in build kit that haven't change that much since release"
For my part the NP nerf on massive is overkill but infestor can't stay like that.
Making NP don't affect psyonic seems better cause it don't affect mecha.
But that not enough, they should change fungal like the rooting part of the spell don't affect massive unit.
There is 3 crowd control spell in the game
Terran shell CC of the marauder don't afffect massive.
Protoss : sentry FF destroyed by massive.
zerg: infestor fungal ffect everything -_-".
At least let a toss a frickin possibilty to micro the massive unit when fungaled.
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NP nerf is stupid, pure Thor mech will be unkillable, Colossi too good and require 1.5x cost in useless corruptors to kill, blah blah blah incredibly obvious stuff.
What really bugs me is that so many players have this bizarre idea that they should be able to make High Templar/Ghosts and immediately win against infestors because they "counter" them. If a mechanic like that existed so strongly, it would be terrible for the game. In a spectator game, it makes sense for battles to be dynamic and have the potential to go either way based on who controls better. Plus there is nothing wrong with a race having a stable unit. Can you imagine the whining if Zerg got an equal tech unit that auto-killed every siege tank or archon on the field even if the other player was using them well? Why should other races get units that counter Zerg units so hard? Zerg is pretty helpless in the late-game in every matchup without infestors on the field, so making the "counters" to infestor super-strong against them will just destroy Zerg's late-game, which wasn't even often seen at a high level to begin with. It just removes many of the actual skill elements from the game and turns it into build order/army comp wars.
In Brood War, late-game caster and anti-caster wars (vessel vs templar/arbiter, vessel vs defiler + scourge, BC/vessel vs BC/vessel, etc.) all had the potential to go either way even though players would generally have almost the exact same composition against each other every time. That allowed the game to be dynamic, rather than a case of hard counters and 200/200 army clashes with one army retaining 100 supply more than the other.
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My point isn't about infestor very good before patch but all the damn hypocrisy about NP being the hyper spell against toss when te spell that has popularised infestor play is the 1.3 patch fungal.
Zerg after that discover that NP & IT are also amazing & have many use
Which they was denying by :
"Infestor can't NP colossi they get kill before launching the spell" proven wrong
"infestor NP are bad against mecha"proven wrong
"IT are not cost effective for harass" proven wrong
etc................
Now all zerg are like "what can we do if they take away our super in build kit that haven't change that much since release"
For my part the NP nerf on massive is overkill but infestor can't stay like that.
Making NP don't affect psyonic seems better cause it don't affect mecha.
But that not enough, they should change fungal like the rooting part of the spell don't affect massive unit.
There is 3 crowd control spell in the game
Terran shell CC of the marauder don't afffect massive.
Protoss : sentry FF destroyed by massive.
zerg: infestor fungal ffect everything -_-".
At least let a toss a frickin possibilty to micro the massive unit when fungaled.
The patch popularized infestor play because it made the infestor a viable polyvalent caster, like the other race have,
"Infestor can't NP colossi they get kill before launching the spell" is wrong, but a microed colossus wont be able to get neuraled more than 2sec, since the infestor will just get sniped
It's not about loosing a "super in build kit" ( That DID changed so much since release, look at the patch note, FG, IT, NP change EVERYWHERE) it's about loosing a valuable possible counter to a unit, the colossus, that get massed like every game, forcing the gameplay to deteriorate into the good old boring deathball PvZ style were protoss just turtle and make colossus, which force zerg to just mass corruptor (And loose subsequently)
Like i said, archon being immune neural and Ht speed buff would solve the infestor problem if it's too strong in ZvP
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On September 10 2011 11:02 atavus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2011 10:50 Arisen wrote:On September 10 2011 10:46 atavus wrote:On September 10 2011 10:23 Arisen wrote:On September 10 2011 08:50 iamke55 wrote:On September 10 2011 08:25 ReignFayth wrote:
every protoss on europe gets demolished by stephano and morrow currently, and he abuses infestor like destiny, except his mechanic is probably much better Fixed. While I understand the frustration Zergs must feel at having their race nerfed, there is absolutely no way a balanced matchup can consistently produce results like VTgiX 3-2 HuK, Strifecro 2-1 JYP, MorroW 10-1 Puzzle or w/e the final score was, Destiny 3-1 Puzzle, Destiny 2-0 STAce. You literally never hear about lower tier Protoss players beating world class Zergs. Wouldn't you be asking for drastic balance changes if you saw results like Attero beating Losira, Deezer beating Nestea, etc? Hell, many Zergs were even preemptively claiming that if Inca took any games off of Nestea in the code S final it would be proof of Protoss being too strong, and the skill gap there is probably about 1% as large as the skill gap between Destiny and Puzzle, for example. Yes the NP nerf sounds drastic on paper, but really, when a matchup is in this state (and has been ever since April), it's not gonna be fixed by changing the build time of random stuff by 5 seconds. Can we agree that ZvP before zergs really started using infestors, Zerg versus Protoss was stupid? Protoss won every game that went to 4 base and most that went to 3. NP gave zerg a way to deal with colossus that wasn't corrupter, now we won't have that. It's going to be mass colossus every game and it's going to go back to the same ZvP we had a few months ago; that is to say, massively in favor of the protoss. It hasn't been that long since infestors were discovered. Pull up any thread about zerg from the release to about 2 months ago and it was pretty much saying colossus based protoss armies were too strong and needed to be nerfed, while protoss players defended them. A month or so of infestor builds and the same build every protoss has been relying on since release still hasn't been nerfed and the build zergs have been having success for a month or so with the infestor builds, they're already hit SO hard with the nerf bat that it's rediculous. Wouldn't you be frustrated if you were in the zergs position, where you know ZvP is going back to the same old style that we've been getting raped in for almost a year? What I find kind of funny in your comment is that NP don't change since age, the spell everyone start to use was fungal to get some sweet AoE & prevent any micro from toss. The DoT actually become sufficient to kill a deathball without too much loss, now it's thanks to NP that all those change happened. Serouilsy get your history straight but stop making point that thanks NP for what fungal did just because you don't want a nerf on NP. Infestors weren't very good before the patch, so spending so much gas on them was stupid. There's a reason zergs didn't make many infestors pre patch. Of course I don't want the NP nerf; Roach/Corrupter is very, very in favor of protoss, I don't want the matchup to be horrible again? My point isn't about infestor very good before patch but all the damn hypocrisy about NP being the hyper spell against toss when te spell that has popularised infestor play is the 1.3 patch fungal. Zerg after that discover that NP & IT are also amazing & have many use Which they was denying by : "Infestor can't NP colossi they get kill before launching the spell" proven wrong "infestor NP are bad against mecha"proven wrong "IT are not cost effective for harass" proven wrong etc................ Now all zerg are like "what can we do if they take away our super in build kit that haven't change that much since release" For my part the NP nerf on massive is overkill but infestor can't stay like that. Making NP don't affect psyonic seems better cause it don't affect mecha. But that not enough, they should change fungal like the rooting part of the spell don't affect massive unit. There is 3 crowd control spell in the game Terran shell CC of the marauder don't afffect massive. Protoss : sentry FF destroyed by massive. zerg: infestor fungal ffect everything -_-". At least let a toss a frickin possibilty to micro the massive unit when fungaled.
That is the main problem with Infestors is the Fungal rooting. In a game where micro is rewarded and an such an intricate part of the game, fungal just puts a stop to all of it and does not fit in.
The other two also do not stop Air and have their drawbacks. Concussive can only hit ground, and is very limited to the amount of units it can hit. Sentries FF, again only ground and can be broken.
Infestors FG abilities to root and chain Fungal units do not make sense in this game. They should have made it an Ensnare like ability. I'll be fine if they kept the damage as is and just changed it to a Snare instead of Freeze.
I think this is what most people have against the Infestors, Neural and FG Damage are part of the issue but not what most people are concerned about the most.
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all this bickering and Im pretty sure the only reason for the NP nerf is they want the infestor to be a support unit and not running around as a core unit....Same thing happen'd to the thor when mass thor owned all.
Im pretty sure that this wont be the last patch ever. If it goes thru enjoy struggling to find counters to very strong strategies as have the protoss have been doing for last 6 months.....someones got to be on bottom guys.
I always thought it was funny that with KA nerf/removal the common response was "adapt" well, time for zerg to try to adapt
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On September 10 2011 11:16 SuperYo1000 wrote:
all this bickering and Im pretty sure the only reason for the NP nerf is they want the infestor to be a support unit and not running around as a core unit....Same thing happen'd to the thor when mass thor owned all.
Im pretty sure that this wont be the last patch ever. If it goes thru enjoy struggling to find counters to very strong strategies as have the protoss have been doing for last 6 months.....someones got to be on bottom guys.
I always thought it was funny that with KA nerf/removal the common response was "adapt" well, time for zerg to try to adapt
Fungal already is supposed to take care of that, isn't it? If anything, they should nerf Infested Terrans, the expo sniping is much more stupid and bad for gameplay than microbattles between HT, Infestors, Colossi and proper positioning
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tbh, i dont think its fair to compare the KA nerf to the NP one... in the former the essential effect is to delay the spell, and to have fewer of them. the latter completely changes the role of the spell...I ONLY use neural on massive units... ARGH!
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EPT
