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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 09 2011 13:31 Resistentialism wrote:Nope.
Ah, 1.88. My mistake.
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On September 09 2011 13:30 Dalguno wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:29 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:27 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:22 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:19 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:13 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:11 Nomad123 wrote:
so instead of encouraging toss/terran to use HT/ghost and learn to feedback/EMP the infestors, they make the neural useless??
U can't feedback when ur fungal'd You can't feedback when theres a line of 6-10 broodlords shooting at ur army feedback is an ez answer but a bitch to use spread out your HT, toss has got into the habit of just making one giant ball. when you're at the part where opponent has 6-10 broodlords, you obviously have a lot of high tier units yourself. you will be able to spread out your ball to at least two and still be cost effective. then your HT spread out between the two balls and cast feedbacks. terrans can just spread out ghosts, cloak & EMP. zergs learned the hard way to spread out their infestors too against good HT users. why can't toss learn to use HT properly? zvt is easier than zvp when it comes to infestors because in zvt zerg cant make 30 infestor, emp does aoe burn in zvp feedback can be casted 4 times by 1 templar and thats if u dont get fungal owned by broodlords before that, you guys are all QQing way too hard, the game won't be broken ull still need 10 infestors ish to have a decent battle but ull need goo positioning and kiting with your corruptor to not die people don't understand that removing massive is good. now instead of protoss having to fight 2 set of tier 3 unit (our collosus archons) and the zerg's tier 3 unit, we just have to fight the zergs unit you said it yourself, 1 HT can feedback 4 times. that means it can feedback 4 infestors if it gets in range. if you have fast hands, you can feedback 2-3 infestors before opponent fungals you. HT and fungal are same range. spread out your HT, don't just make one giant ball and push. you keep adding "broodlord" in your example, so the problem to you is the broodlord then, not the infestors. you can feedback 4times if your templar has 200 energy fungal has slightly better range just like emp has slightly longer range than feedback blaming toss users on feedback for the nerf is ridiculous oh one more fact our templar are retardly slow like baby steps and ur infestors actually have a decent movement speed They have the same speed?
Nope, 2.25 for infestors off creep, 1.875 for HT always, disparity becomes even worse with creep.
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People are watching destiny's stream too much. All the zergs have NO problem with protoss or terran mech when they win with infestors in the late game. NP helps but it's not the backbone against massive units. Massing 20 infestors just won't be as viable anymore.
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On September 09 2011 13:29 desrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:27 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:22 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:19 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:13 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:11 Nomad123 wrote:
so instead of encouraging toss/terran to use HT/ghost and learn to feedback/EMP the infestors, they make the neural useless??
U can't feedback when ur fungal'd You can't feedback when theres a line of 6-10 broodlords shooting at ur army feedback is an ez answer but a bitch to use spread out your HT, toss has got into the habit of just making one giant ball. when you're at the part where opponent has 6-10 broodlords, you obviously have a lot of high tier units yourself. you will be able to spread out your ball to at least two and still be cost effective. then your HT spread out between the two balls and cast feedbacks. terrans can just spread out ghosts, cloak & EMP. zergs learned the hard way to spread out their infestors too against good HT users. why can't toss learn to use HT properly? zvt is easier than zvp when it comes to infestors because in zvt zerg cant make 30 infestor, emp does aoe burn in zvp feedback can be casted 4 times by 1 templar and thats if u dont get fungal owned by broodlords before that, you guys are all QQing way too hard, the game won't be broken ull still need 10 infestors ish to have a decent battle but ull need goo positioning and kiting with your corruptor to not die people don't understand that removing massive is good. now instead of protoss having to fight 2 set of tier 3 unit (our collosus archons) and the zerg's tier 3 unit, we just have to fight the zergs unit you said it yourself, 1 HT can feedback 4 times. that means it can feedback 4 infestors if it gets in range. if you have fast hands, you can feedback 2-3 infestors before opponent fungals you. HT and fungal are same range. spread out your HT, don't just make one giant ball and push. you keep adding "broodlord" in your example, so the problem to you is the broodlord then, not the infestors. you can feedback 4times if your templar has 200 energy fungal has slightly better range just like emp has slightly longer range than feedback blaming toss users on feedback for the nerf is ridiculous oh one more fact our templar are retardly slow like baby steps and ur infestors actually have a decent movement speed
both templars & infestors wait to regenerate energy. that part is fair. if you have 200 energy templars, then infestors will have high energy as well.
now you remove broodlord from your argument. thank you. you obviously were too short sighted with your examples.
templars are ridiculously slow for their own good. infestor movement speed was reduced also last patch, for their own good. this helps players not have their spellcasters die cause they move so fast and go in front of battle.
reality is, if opponent can fungal you, you can feedback them as well. movement speed is not a factor in your argument.
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On September 09 2011 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:24 BigKahunaBurger wrote:On September 09 2011 13:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 09 2011 13:18 BigKahunaBurger wrote:
Have they seriously not thought of the logic of the neural parasite change?
Why on earth would you ever want to NP a unit that ISN'T massive?
Eliminating Colossi, Thors and Archons is around about 90% of all things you NP.
Tanks and Immortals are the only things left, are very situational, and are probably not worth the research. good so infestor still has 2 great spells....... It takes 10 consecutive fungals to kill a thor. If they have about 5 of them spread out? Great spell. it takes many storm to kill a thor as well... I still think it's a good spell lol I'm really not sure what your point was
The issue that I am voicing concern over is a mech terran or deathball protoss with many colossi.
Having 2 other great spells doesn't mean anything if you cannot win against these strats.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 09 2011 13:30 Dalguno wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:29 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:27 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:22 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:19 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:13 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:11 Nomad123 wrote:
so instead of encouraging toss/terran to use HT/ghost and learn to feedback/EMP the infestors, they make the neural useless??
U can't feedback when ur fungal'd You can't feedback when theres a line of 6-10 broodlords shooting at ur army feedback is an ez answer but a bitch to use spread out your HT, toss has got into the habit of just making one giant ball. when you're at the part where opponent has 6-10 broodlords, you obviously have a lot of high tier units yourself. you will be able to spread out your ball to at least two and still be cost effective. then your HT spread out between the two balls and cast feedbacks. terrans can just spread out ghosts, cloak & EMP. zergs learned the hard way to spread out their infestors too against good HT users. why can't toss learn to use HT properly? zvt is easier than zvp when it comes to infestors because in zvt zerg cant make 30 infestor, emp does aoe burn in zvp feedback can be casted 4 times by 1 templar and thats if u dont get fungal owned by broodlords before that, you guys are all QQing way too hard, the game won't be broken ull still need 10 infestors ish to have a decent battle but ull need goo positioning and kiting with your corruptor to not die people don't understand that removing massive is good. now instead of protoss having to fight 2 set of tier 3 unit (our collosus archons) and the zerg's tier 3 unit, we just have to fight the zergs unit you said it yourself, 1 HT can feedback 4 times. that means it can feedback 4 infestors if it gets in range. if you have fast hands, you can feedback 2-3 infestors before opponent fungals you. HT and fungal are same range. spread out your HT, don't just make one giant ball and push. you keep adding "broodlord" in your example, so the problem to you is the broodlord then, not the infestors. you can feedback 4times if your templar has 200 energy fungal has slightly better range just like emp has slightly longer range than feedback blaming toss users on feedback for the nerf is ridiculous oh one more fact our templar are retardly slow like baby steps and ur infestors actually have a decent movement speed They have the same speed?
No they don't, infestors have a 2.25 speed, high templars have a 1.875 speed. Infestors have a speed of 2.925 on creep as well, and a burrow speed of 2. Don't just make shit up, if you're going to make an argument, the least you could do is look it up first.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestor
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/High_templar
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ZvT/P is gonna be horrible again, NP is essential to discourage large Thor/Collosi forces. I realize that mass infestors are too strong against Protoss but this change is too extreme.
As a suggestion why not make it so NP can't be casted on psionic units? (Sentries,
HTs, DTs, Archons, Warp Prism, Mothership, Ghosts, Queens, Infestors according to Liquipedia)
Heavy collosi builds will still be countered by NP infestors, but archon/zealot compositions will be stronger against ling/infestors. ZvT will be almost unaffected because infestors try to stay as far away from ghosts as possible anyway.
Plus it makes sense that psionic units can resist a psionic spell right?
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On September 09 2011 13:30 Dalguno wrote:
They have the same speed?
Nope, HT's have 1.875 and infestors have 2.25
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Why this sudden outcry of Infestors being too powerful? Why did it take a ridiculous change from Blizzard for all these naysayers about balance to come out of the woodwork and defend this stupid nerf?
You are all just taking advantage of a stupid change to further your own Platinum league experience without taking mind of the game as a whole and the outcome it will have on eSports in general.
With this nerf, Infestors will become useless in any battle past fifteen minutes. Zerg players will disappear from tournaments, and every televised game will be mirror matchups or PvT 1 and 2 base timing attacks. All because you morons wanted to get to top 8 in your Platinum league without learning how to micro your caster units.
User was temp banned for this post.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 09 2011 13:33 BigKahunaBurger wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:32 ReignFayth wrote:On September 09 2011 13:24 BigKahunaBurger wrote:On September 09 2011 13:20 ReignFayth wrote:On September 09 2011 13:18 BigKahunaBurger wrote:
Have they seriously not thought of the logic of the neural parasite change?
Why on earth would you ever want to NP a unit that ISN'T massive?
Eliminating Colossi, Thors and Archons is around about 90% of all things you NP.
Tanks and Immortals are the only things left, are very situational, and are probably not worth the research. good so infestor still has 2 great spells....... It takes 10 consecutive fungals to kill a thor. If they have about 5 of them spread out? Great spell. it takes many storm to kill a thor as well... I still think it's a good spell lol I'm really not sure what your point was The issue that I am voicing concern over is a mech terran or deathball protoss with many colossi. Having 2 other great spells doesn't mean anything if you cannot win against these strats.
Brood lords say hi. I hear they work well with infestors.
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On September 09 2011 13:31 Fig wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:27 Empirimancer wrote:On September 09 2011 13:23 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 13:17 Empirimancer wrote:On September 09 2011 13:09 Fig wrote:
You can see what blizzard is aiming for.
They don't want people solely massing infestors, which many people were, so they nerfed it to not be a cure-all.
If that's the goal, they should give Zerg units good enough to beat 'deathball' compositions like Protoss Colossus/stalker/etc and Terran mech. The admittedly very powerful and very versatile infestor made up for the weakness and lack of versatility of the rest of the Zerg units. Terran/Protoss player here. Seriously?!?!?!?! You quote only half of my post????????? Here you go, this is the rest of it, stop being childish. "You can see what blizzard is aiming for. They don't want people solely massing infestors, which many people were, so they nerfed it to not be a cure-all. In return, they buffed ultras to make them a more legitimate late game option, and buffed overseers to detect the invisible stuff that zergs had previously been using mass infestors to fungal. They want unit diversity! If it turns out that those buffs aren't enough, they will give zergs more! Plain and simple!" I didn't quote the rest of your post to avoid embarrassing you. "If it turns out those buffs aren't enough?" Well of course a reduction to Ultra build time isn't enough. And telling Zergs players to just hold on for a month or three while Blizzard realizes how badly they've screwed up isn't intelligent. Well ultras do hard counter that "Protoss Colossus/stalker/etc" deathball you were specifically talking about. And don't tell a protoss about "holding on for a month or three." AND don't quote a post and only take half the argument, that is not cool.
I think Archons are the much bigger issue here if one decides to go the ling/infestor/ultra route.
If we go the ranged weapons route.... well Colossus and Forcefields own that pretty hard too.
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On September 09 2011 13:27 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:24 Belial88 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:01 Whitewing wrote:On September 09 2011 12:58 Treble557 wrote:On September 09 2011 12:56 Whitewing wrote:On September 09 2011 12:51 Belial88 wrote:
I swear to god, if Blizzard makes it so you can't NP massive units, I will switch to Terran. I just fucking hit #1 Master with Zerg too.
Because of this change, I will also be only playing on the PTR.
NP is the only counter Zerg has to archons until broodlords, which is impossible to get even against 3 base timing pushes. Mass roach is okay, but has it's own problems against immortals and doesn't cut it against archons forever.
And Zerg has no counter to fucking colossi, it was hard enough trying to make NP work. Corruptors just don't kill Colossi fast enough, they are weaker, just as slow, lower range, and more expensive than Vikings, yet Zerg ground units die much faster than marauders. Baneling rain is lol against stalkers or air play.
And then BC's and Carriers (as rare as they show up) are ridiculously hard to deal with without NP. And motherships are a huge pain too without NP.
I don't think NP is that great against mech, you're better off with mass muta (especially if siege tank count is high, which any decent mech will do, and mass roach is better against mass thor), since BL is a better investment in gas than infestors, but it's still obnoxious.
And in ZvZ is was necessary to NP broodlords, as an option to making Corruptors, instead of games being a stupid fucking mass spine wall to broodlord/roach on 3 base.
I'm not even kidding. I will switch to terran if this change goes through. Roaches and hydras both do very well vs. archons. You can neural the immortals. Zerg does have a counter to colossi: spam fungal the army while keeping your army at range and make brood lords. Broods do pretty damn well vs. units that don't shoot up like colossi last time I checked. Carriers get roflstomped by hydras (and you can fungal the interceptors, lawl). Mothership might be a decent point, but at the same time, with neural on the mothership, the ship does nothing at all in the matchup in protoss's favor. Making one was basically giving the zerg a vortex on your own army. Oh, and baneling drops are fantastic on stalker balls, very cost effective if you can get the baneling to hit more than 3 stalkers, and remember, you're ahead on resources anyway so you don't even need to be cost effective. Is this a joke post? None of that is true. You're saying you can't spam fungal the army while staying away from the protoss units that literally can't move? Are you saying you can't neural parasite immortals? Oh, are you saying colossi are good against brood lords? Oh, perhaps you think baneling drops aren't cost effective on stalker balls, but the math proves you wrong, search it. Oh, maybe you meant that zerg isn't ahead on resources normally? Your post is possibly the most idiotic thing that occurs on this forum: not reading and just denying everything flat out. You realize FG has to be chained, just a single FG is worthless. And Colossi outrage infestors, so infestors always die doing a 40 damage spell, and then there's blink sniping. There's also HT FB, and unless you clump them up all horribly or lead your army with them, getting a single FG off and losing 10 infestors to a 3 HT int he process, is not nearly worth it at all. Infestors are very versatile, but saying they should be removed just because of this is ridiculous. Marines and stalkers are also extremely versatile, and Zerg has no marine or stalker. What's more, is while infestors are awesome, they are just so hard countered by the much cheaper, much faster to get HT,which can be warped, counters what infestors generally come with, and you only need 2-3 to make an infestor army useless, whereas Zerg needs 10+ infestors for a sizeable, decent army. And baneling drops aren't good at all on stalker balls... any decent Protoss knows stalkers is the 'counter' to baneling rain. MC used FF to hold off ground armies and blink to deal with overlords in the GSL finals vs July on Xel Naga, and Liquid'Hero constantly shows on his stream how to own baneling rain with blink stalkers with amazing split micro (kind of like marine splitting but a shitton easier). A lot of Zergs also say Ultras are much better against Colossi than BL (idra, destiny, spanishiwa, etc), and Colossi are faster than BL, clean up broodlings, and blink and Vr can handle broodlords. 2 upgraded blink stalkers beat a single broodlord, or just 3 plain stalkers. Roaches and hydras are known to be horrible vs archons, broods dont come in time against even 3 base pushes, carriers actually own hydras. Everything you say is just so, so wrong, and it's obvious you don't play Zerg. I don't know where you think you got your information, but I'm a Master Zerg, and I'm also *not* trolling, so I have no idea what you are talking about. You also don't have to be so goddamn mean, if you have certain opinions that's fine, but you don't need to be mean about it. Chaining FGs is a lot easier than chaining anything else Roaches are horrible against archons? I don't even... what???? Carriers own hydras? Who the hell cares what carriers own?
At a certain point, enough Zealots and Archons will demolish an army of Roaches and Speedlings, even if outnumbered. Roaches are not cost-efficient against Archons, even less supply-efficient, and if you try to stop a 6-gate Archon mix with roaches and speedlings, or hydras, you will not fair well. You need something else.
Archons are a lot like colossi in that regard - they'll wreck Zerg on the ground if your "ball" gets big enough. But unlike colossi they aren't vulnerable to air attacks. This makes them a really hard unit for Zerg to deal with. NP was the most ideal option.
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This is stupid, the only scenario when you will see Neural being used, is when the zerg already won the game and want to humiliate with manner neurals to marines or zelots.
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On September 09 2011 13:33 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:30 Dalguno wrote:On September 09 2011 13:29 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:27 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:22 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:19 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:13 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:11 Nomad123 wrote:
so instead of encouraging toss/terran to use HT/ghost and learn to feedback/EMP the infestors, they make the neural useless??
U can't feedback when ur fungal'd You can't feedback when theres a line of 6-10 broodlords shooting at ur army feedback is an ez answer but a bitch to use spread out your HT, toss has got into the habit of just making one giant ball. when you're at the part where opponent has 6-10 broodlords, you obviously have a lot of high tier units yourself. you will be able to spread out your ball to at least two and still be cost effective. then your HT spread out between the two balls and cast feedbacks. terrans can just spread out ghosts, cloak & EMP. zergs learned the hard way to spread out their infestors too against good HT users. why can't toss learn to use HT properly? zvt is easier than zvp when it comes to infestors because in zvt zerg cant make 30 infestor, emp does aoe burn in zvp feedback can be casted 4 times by 1 templar and thats if u dont get fungal owned by broodlords before that, you guys are all QQing way too hard, the game won't be broken ull still need 10 infestors ish to have a decent battle but ull need goo positioning and kiting with your corruptor to not die people don't understand that removing massive is good. now instead of protoss having to fight 2 set of tier 3 unit (our collosus archons) and the zerg's tier 3 unit, we just have to fight the zergs unit you said it yourself, 1 HT can feedback 4 times. that means it can feedback 4 infestors if it gets in range. if you have fast hands, you can feedback 2-3 infestors before opponent fungals you. HT and fungal are same range. spread out your HT, don't just make one giant ball and push. you keep adding "broodlord" in your example, so the problem to you is the broodlord then, not the infestors. you can feedback 4times if your templar has 200 energy fungal has slightly better range just like emp has slightly longer range than feedback blaming toss users on feedback for the nerf is ridiculous oh one more fact our templar are retardly slow like baby steps and ur infestors actually have a decent movement speed They have the same speed? No they don't, infestors have a 2.25 speed, high templars have a 1.875 speed. Infestors have a speed of 2.925 on creep as well, and a burrow speed of 2. Don't just make shit up, if you're going to make an argument, the least you could do is look it up first. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestorhttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/High_templar
I corrected myself. I could have sworn they did, but wasn't sure, hence the "?". Wasn't trying to start anything. sorry for that.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 09 2011 13:34 Grimjim wrote:
Why this sudden outcry of Infestors being too powerful? Why did it take a ridiculous change from Blizzard for all these naysayers about balance to come out of the woodwork and defend this stupid nerf?
You are all just taking advantage of a stupid change to further your own Platinum league experience without taking mind of the game as a whole and the outcome it will have on eSports in general.
With this nerf, Infestors will become useless in any battle past fifteen minutes. Zerg players will disappear from tournaments, and every televised game will be mirror matchups or PvT 1 and 2 base timing attacks. All because you morons wanted to get to top 8 in your Platinum league without learning how to micro your caster units.
It's not new, you haven't been paying attention. A lot of protoss players have been complaining about it for months now.
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United States7483 Posts
On September 09 2011 13:35 Dalguno wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:33 Whitewing wrote:On September 09 2011 13:30 Dalguno wrote:On September 09 2011 13:29 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:27 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:22 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:19 Nomad123 wrote:On September 09 2011 13:13 desrow wrote:On September 09 2011 13:11 Nomad123 wrote:
so instead of encouraging toss/terran to use HT/ghost and learn to feedback/EMP the infestors, they make the neural useless??
U can't feedback when ur fungal'd You can't feedback when theres a line of 6-10 broodlords shooting at ur army feedback is an ez answer but a bitch to use spread out your HT, toss has got into the habit of just making one giant ball. when you're at the part where opponent has 6-10 broodlords, you obviously have a lot of high tier units yourself. you will be able to spread out your ball to at least two and still be cost effective. then your HT spread out between the two balls and cast feedbacks. terrans can just spread out ghosts, cloak & EMP. zergs learned the hard way to spread out their infestors too against good HT users. why can't toss learn to use HT properly? zvt is easier than zvp when it comes to infestors because in zvt zerg cant make 30 infestor, emp does aoe burn in zvp feedback can be casted 4 times by 1 templar and thats if u dont get fungal owned by broodlords before that, you guys are all QQing way too hard, the game won't be broken ull still need 10 infestors ish to have a decent battle but ull need goo positioning and kiting with your corruptor to not die people don't understand that removing massive is good. now instead of protoss having to fight 2 set of tier 3 unit (our collosus archons) and the zerg's tier 3 unit, we just have to fight the zergs unit you said it yourself, 1 HT can feedback 4 times. that means it can feedback 4 infestors if it gets in range. if you have fast hands, you can feedback 2-3 infestors before opponent fungals you. HT and fungal are same range. spread out your HT, don't just make one giant ball and push. you keep adding "broodlord" in your example, so the problem to you is the broodlord then, not the infestors. you can feedback 4times if your templar has 200 energy fungal has slightly better range just like emp has slightly longer range than feedback blaming toss users on feedback for the nerf is ridiculous oh one more fact our templar are retardly slow like baby steps and ur infestors actually have a decent movement speed They have the same speed? No they don't, infestors have a 2.25 speed, high templars have a 1.875 speed. Infestors have a speed of 2.925 on creep as well, and a burrow speed of 2. Don't just make shit up, if you're going to make an argument, the least you could do is look it up first. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Infestorhttp://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/High_templar I corrected myself. I could have sworn they did, but wasn't sure, hence the "?". Wasn't trying to start anything. sorry for that.
Sorry if I sounded jumpy, this thread is updating really fast, 4 people beat me too the response while I was getting the links lol.
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On September 09 2011 13:31 McGuire72 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:27 Mikelius wrote:On September 09 2011 13:26 Dalguno wrote:
So, good units to NP:
Toss:
-HT
-Sentries (maybe)
-Immortals
-Voids
Terran:
-Siege tanks
-Ghosts
What else? Banshees, Ravens, Medivacs? Researching NP... to control.. a freaking sentry?! Really? You're in the middle of a massive battle and you're going to use all your APM pinpointing the high-energy sentry in a ball and laying down 4 FFs that a collosus is going to walk over and destroy anyway? Come on. Or a Ghost? Why? To EMP the terran army? This is ridiculous. NP is going to be useless without the ability to target massive units.
You're so incredibly biased.
NP Ghost -> EMP other ghosts. Oh hey now your infestors have free reign to fungal everything without getting EMPed.
Or, snipe any of their bio units if you desire.
Sentry is less viable but not completely useless. A single guardian shield would be really really good considering how many stalkers protoss compositions usually contain. Not to mention because it is their unit under your control, it wont get auto-targetted and hence you have guardian shield for the entire engagement.
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On September 09 2011 13:35 Mutarisk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2011 13:31 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 13:27 Empirimancer wrote:On September 09 2011 13:23 Fig wrote:On September 09 2011 13:17 Empirimancer wrote:On September 09 2011 13:09 Fig wrote:
You can see what blizzard is aiming for.
They don't want people solely massing infestors, which many people were, so they nerfed it to not be a cure-all.
If that's the goal, they should give Zerg units good enough to beat 'deathball' compositions like Protoss Colossus/stalker/etc and Terran mech. The admittedly very powerful and very versatile infestor made up for the weakness and lack of versatility of the rest of the Zerg units. Terran/Protoss player here. Seriously?!?!?!?! You quote only half of my post????????? Here you go, this is the rest of it, stop being childish. "You can see what blizzard is aiming for. They don't want people solely massing infestors, which many people were, so they nerfed it to not be a cure-all. In return, they buffed ultras to make them a more legitimate late game option, and buffed overseers to detect the invisible stuff that zergs had previously been using mass infestors to fungal. They want unit diversity! If it turns out that those buffs aren't enough, they will give zergs more! Plain and simple!" I didn't quote the rest of your post to avoid embarrassing you. "If it turns out those buffs aren't enough?" Well of course a reduction to Ultra build time isn't enough. And telling Zergs players to just hold on for a month or three while Blizzard realizes how badly they've screwed up isn't intelligent. Well ultras do hard counter that "Protoss Colossus/stalker/etc" deathball you were specifically talking about. And don't tell a protoss about "holding on for a month or three." AND don't quote a post and only take half the argument, that is not cool. I think Archons are the much bigger issue here if one decides to go the ling/infestor/ultra route. If we go the ranged weapons route.... well Colossus and Forcefields own that pretty hard too.
Doesn't mean you can't make Broodlords anymore.
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i play toss and think, this is too much of a nerf.
the big units are the ones it only makes sense to neural parasite.
imo a nerf of the view-range and range from neural parasite would have been the better way. let infestors overtake massive units if they get close enough to them
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Lol, this is how toss felt when khaydarian amulet was removed. Anyway, the infestor was just too good of a unit. Good against sentries, void rays, carriers, mothership, zealots, stalkers, pheonixes, archons, collosi, dts, observers, and probes. Good for defending, as well as attacking, as well as harrassing. In a strategy game when there's a unit that's good at everything the correct phrase to drescribe it is: overpowered
p.s. left the high templar out cause that's debatable.
Don't worry guys, the ghost is next.
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EPT
