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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On September 01 2011 12:36 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
No my friend, Terran winrates in Korea are simply better because of a very simple reason. The pros playing Terran are just way to good. They all come from a SC1 background and most of them were pretty good in BW. If you don't see that then you have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene.
im gonna go out on a limb here and say its actually because of 1/1/1
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On September 01 2011 12:45 VictorJones wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:31 VictorJones wrote:
I'm blown away by the amount of QQ we are getting from Terran players..
If the game isn't put more into balance by the patch, the PTR won't end up utilizing the suggested changes.
I think it comes down to Terrans not being able to come to terms with the idea that maybe a large portion of their wins actually comes down to their race being stronger instead of their "skills". Guys: I'm sorry you have never once had to deal with being the weakest race. I'm sorry that if things get overpatched, you might have to deal with that possibility. Until T's winrates aren't significantly above 50% for all MU's in the Korean pro scene though, please quit whining T.T
Your time will come. Just be patient
No my friend, Terran winrates in Korea are simply better because of a very simple reason. The pros playing Terran are just way to good. They all come from a SC1 background and most of them were pretty good in BW. If you don't see that then you have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene. I cannot even fathom how you live life with such awful biased logic t.t Just about every Korean in the GSL today comes from a SC1 background, not just terrans. This PTR thread is actually so filled with mind-rot that I might have to discard 2 cards from my hand
1. You're probably not even Diamond League, because if you had any ideea about the game you wouldn't post such shit.
2. If there's anyone biased here, it's you.
3. No shit man, they come from BW backgrounds? Compared to the Terrans, they were pretty bad. Go look it up.
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On September 01 2011 12:36 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:31 VictorJones wrote:
I'm blown away by the amount of QQ we are getting from Terran players..
If the game isn't put more into balance by the patch, the PTR won't end up utilizing the suggested changes.
I think it comes down to Terrans not being able to come to terms with the idea that maybe a large portion of their wins actually comes down to their race being stronger instead of their "skills". Guys: I'm sorry you have never once had to deal with being the weakest race. I'm sorry that if things get overpatched, you might have to deal with that possibility. Until T's winrates aren't significantly above 50% for all MU's in the Korean pro scene though, please quit whining T.T
Your time will come. Just be patient No my friend, Terran winrates in Korea are simply better because of a very simple reason. The pros playing Terran are just way to good. They all come from a SC1 background and most of them were pretty good in BW. If you don't see that then you have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene.
you seriously have to be joking, No one is this foolish. If you are serious then really YOU have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene.
If you're trolling you are a master ;D
EDIT: wow....you're actually that foolish, I would debate with you but its kinda like arguing with a 6 year old
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On September 01 2011 12:47 oblong9 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:36 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
No my friend, Terran winrates in Korea are simply better because of a very simple reason. The pros playing Terran are just way to good. They all come from a SC1 background and most of them were pretty good in BW. If you don't see that then you have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene. im gonna go out on a limb here and say its actually because of 1/1/1
There are 3 matchups, 1/1/1 is an all in vs Protoss. 75% of the wins vs protoss are macro games. Yep, it's cuz of 1/1/1.
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On September 01 2011 12:53 SuperYo1000 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:36 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:On September 01 2011 12:31 VictorJones wrote:
I'm blown away by the amount of QQ we are getting from Terran players..
If the game isn't put more into balance by the patch, the PTR won't end up utilizing the suggested changes.
I think it comes down to Terrans not being able to come to terms with the idea that maybe a large portion of their wins actually comes down to their race being stronger instead of their "skills". Guys: I'm sorry you have never once had to deal with being the weakest race. I'm sorry that if things get overpatched, you might have to deal with that possibility. Until T's winrates aren't significantly above 50% for all MU's in the Korean pro scene though, please quit whining T.T
Your time will come. Just be patient No my friend, Terran winrates in Korea are simply better because of a very simple reason. The pros playing Terran are just way to good. They all come from a SC1 background and most of them were pretty good in BW. If you don't see that then you have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene. you seriously have to be joking, No one is this foolish. If you are serious then really YOU have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene. If you're trolling you are a master ;D EDIT: wow....you're actually that foolish, I would debate with you but its kinda like arguing with a 6 year old
No, I'm pretty serious. And I'm pretty sure you're really bad at this game.
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For all the people who are upset by the damage reduction on fungal id like to refer you all to the last SotG where is was stated that the same number of fungals are required to kill every P unit as before (they went as far as to say only marines and medivacs are affected but i have not independently verified this).
Also I feel that as a community a lot of the conflict is at a more fundamental "what end product do we want" level. Storm is a great example of this I think. Many people who see storm as op want the game to be balanced as possible for as many levels of play (their gaming experience at least) as possible. All the way up through diamond storm might as well be double fungal for all the time people just sit in it. For people who feel storm nerfs like KA removal are overboard, they must want the game to be balanced for GSL code S level play almost exclusively. They see storm go down on perfect and instantaneous splits where the spell does about 20 damage and see no problem.
Sure there are always rage posts and crazy "off the top of my head" stuff that fills forums, im talking more about the measured opinions of the community. Then again maybe people are just rage machines 24/7 lol.
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On September 01 2011 12:28 Razuik wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 11:15 PuercoPop wrote:On September 01 2011 10:54 imareaver3 wrote:On September 01 2011 10:50 ePBuckets wrote:
my question is why did K Amulet get removed when Pathogen Glands and the energy upgrade for ghosts are still in game?
Why are they scaling down the damage of fungal when the imbalanced part of it is the snare?
:S i like most of the changes though! i think PvP will finally get the diversity its been longing for. and i really like the sight change, though there are ways around it as tyler said.
we'll have to see how it plays out :/ Because you can warp in HT's practically anywhere, whereas ghosts and infestors have to be built at your own base? It isn't that hard to figure out... They could have gone a less drastic route. I would have prefered KA bien a +20 Upgrade instead of +25 No, I'm pretty sure before the KA nerf it was nearly impossible to kill a protoss in the late game. Like, I remember terrans just winning battles then getting stormed and dying at the ramp when they go in for the kill.
yeah and there was it a balanced matchup, early to mid terran favored and late protoss favored, now its only terran favored imho
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On September 01 2011 13:04 Velocirapture wrote:
For all the people who are upset by the damage reduction on fungal id like to refer you all to the last SotG where is was stated that the same number of fungals are required to kill every P unit as before (they went as far as to say only marines and medivacs are affected but i have not independently verified this).
Also I feel that as a community a lot of the conflict is at a more fundamental "what end product do we want" level. Storm is a great example of this I think. Many people who see storm as op want the game to be balanced as possible for as many levels of play (their gaming experience at least) as possible. All the way up through diamond storm might as well be double fungal for all the time people just sit in it. For people who feel storm nerfs like KA removal are overboard, they must want the game to be balanced for GSL code S level play almost exclusively. They see storm go down on perfect and instantaneous splits where the spell does about 20 damage and see no problem.
Sure there are always rage posts and crazy "off the top of my head" stuff that fills forums, im talking more about the measured opinions of the community. Then again maybe people are just rage machines 24/7 lol.
in theory yes, but in praxis you will need 1 more fungal and 2 more for bigger units! so its fine i think^^
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On September 01 2011 12:28 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Stop posting shit, being able to shut down any harass and any drop instantly and being able to practically warp in storms in big battles was fucking OP. 3 storms can melt a 200/200 bio army. Stop whining and go play some Starcraft and get out of fucking gold league for a change before you talk this bullshit.
Have your diapers changed. This big battle you're talking about has you pretty worked up. Post a replay if you'd like therapy, but as I will say to...
On September 01 2011 12:25 Belisarius wrote:
He's not trolling, it makes a lot of sense. I railed against the KA nerf as much as anyone, but he's right. Our caster spells came online much faster than the other races', and KA was probably broken as it stood.
It's being discussed in isolation. When Storm/KA comes online is irrelevant in a vacuum, and in the context of a game in progress (particularly at the highest level), domination by Protoss did/does not ensue. Consider that Protoss led the first GSL qualifier populations (even over Terran), and yet numbers alone couldn't ensure representation beyond the top 16. Now you'd think that because there were so many, surely there would be dividends in developed talent simply via the law of averages. Instead, GSL August featured 17 Terrans in the round of 32.
Check it out here:
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2010_TG_Sambo_Intel_Starcraft_II_Open_Season_1
User was warned for this post
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On September 01 2011 13:04 Velocirapture wrote:
For all the people who are upset by the damage reduction on fungal id like to refer you all to the last SotG where is was stated that the same number of fungals are required to kill every P unit as before (they went as far as to say only marines and medivacs are affected but i have not independently verified this).
except the power of fungal on protoss units is the root. damage is also pretty significant.
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On September 01 2011 12:51 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:45 VictorJones wrote:On September 01 2011 12:31 VictorJones wrote:
I'm blown away by the amount of QQ we are getting from Terran players..
If the game isn't put more into balance by the patch, the PTR won't end up utilizing the suggested changes.
I think it comes down to Terrans not being able to come to terms with the idea that maybe a large portion of their wins actually comes down to their race being stronger instead of their "skills". Guys: I'm sorry you have never once had to deal with being the weakest race. I'm sorry that if things get overpatched, you might have to deal with that possibility. Until T's winrates aren't significantly above 50% for all MU's in the Korean pro scene though, please quit whining T.T
Your time will come. Just be patient
No my friend, Terran winrates in Korea are simply better because of a very simple reason. The pros playing Terran are just way to good. They all come from a SC1 background and most of them were pretty good in BW. If you don't see that then you have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene. I cannot even fathom how you live life with such awful biased logic t.t Just about every Korean in the GSL today comes from a SC1 background, not just terrans. This PTR thread is actually so filled with mind-rot that I might have to discard 2 cards from my hand 1. You're probably not even Diamond League, because if you had any ideea about the game you wouldn't post such shit. 2. If there's anyone biased here, it's you. 3. No shit man, they come from BW backgrounds? Compared to the Terrans, they were pretty bad. Go look it up.
The only terrans who were particularly notable in BW were Boxer and Nada. MC, Tester and Sangho were not great BW players but they at least played more televised games than the likes of MKP who never really got beyond practice partner level. MVP was decent but nowhere near the level of July in terms of results, so your number 3 is pretty debatable.
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On September 01 2011 12:51 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:45 VictorJones wrote:On September 01 2011 12:31 VictorJones wrote:
I'm blown away by the amount of QQ we are getting from Terran players..
If the game isn't put more into balance by the patch, the PTR won't end up utilizing the suggested changes.
I think it comes down to Terrans not being able to come to terms with the idea that maybe a large portion of their wins actually comes down to their race being stronger instead of their "skills". Guys: I'm sorry you have never once had to deal with being the weakest race. I'm sorry that if things get overpatched, you might have to deal with that possibility. Until T's winrates aren't significantly above 50% for all MU's in the Korean pro scene though, please quit whining T.T
Your time will come. Just be patient
No my friend, Terran winrates in Korea are simply better because of a very simple reason. The pros playing Terran are just way to good. They all come from a SC1 background and most of them were pretty good in BW. If you don't see that then you have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene. I cannot even fathom how you live life with such awful biased logic t.t Just about every Korean in the GSL today comes from a SC1 background, not just terrans. This PTR thread is actually so filled with mind-rot that I might have to discard 2 cards from my hand 1. You're probably not even Diamond League, because if you had any ideea about the game you wouldn't post such shit. 2. If there's anyone biased here, it's you. 3. No shit man, they come from BW backgrounds? Compared to the Terrans, they were pretty bad. Go look it up.
All the terrans who make it to the round of 16 were all pretty shit in bw. Nada and boxer where the only 2 that you can say were good.
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On September 01 2011 13:14 Jomer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:28 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:
Stop posting shit, being able to shut down any harass and any drop instantly and being able to practically warp in storms in big battles was fucking OP. 3 storms can melt a 200/200 bio army. Stop whining and go play some Starcraft and get out of fucking gold league for a change before you talk this bullshit.
Have your diapers changed. This big battle you're talking about has you pretty worked up. Post a replay if you'd like therapy, but as I will say to... Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:25 Belisarius wrote:
He's not trolling, it makes a lot of sense. I railed against the KA nerf as much as anyone, but he's right. Our caster spells came online much faster than the other races', and KA was probably broken as it stood.
It's being discussed in isolation. When Storm/KA comes online is irrelevant in a vacuum, and in the context of a game in progress (particularly at the highest level), domination by Protoss did/does not ensue. Consider that Protoss led the first GSL qualifier populations (even over Terran), and yet numbers alone couldn't ensure representation beyond the top 16. Now you'd think that because there were so many, surely there would be dividends in developed talent simply via the law of averages. Instead, GSL August featured 17 Terrans in the round of 32. Check it out here: http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2010_TG_Sambo_Intel_Starcraft_II_Open_Season_1
I feel like Khaydarin Amulet may indeed have been slightly overpowered in the metagame of the time, but the thing is that back then Terrans still hadn't realized that Barracks could build more than just Marines and Marauders. It was rare to even see one Ghost in the Terran army, let alone the 8-10 that is pretty common nowadays. I don't think Khaydarin would be too strong in today's TvP metagame.
In my head I always compared KA to Consume in BW ZvT. The moment the upgrade finished there is a massive momentum shift in the Protoss/Zerg's favour, and the Terran is forced to respond with a lot of tech, either Ghosts in the SC2 case or Science Vessels and Siege Tanks for BW. Not quite sure how valid that is since I played P in BW. 
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On September 01 2011 13:09 Grobian wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:28 Razuik wrote:On September 01 2011 11:15 PuercoPop wrote:On September 01 2011 10:54 imareaver3 wrote:On September 01 2011 10:50 ePBuckets wrote:
my question is why did K Amulet get removed when Pathogen Glands and the energy upgrade for ghosts are still in game?
Why are they scaling down the damage of fungal when the imbalanced part of it is the snare?
:S i like most of the changes though! i think PvP will finally get the diversity its been longing for. and i really like the sight change, though there are ways around it as tyler said.
we'll have to see how it plays out :/ Because you can warp in HT's practically anywhere, whereas ghosts and infestors have to be built at your own base? It isn't that hard to figure out... They could have gone a less drastic route. I would have prefered KA bien a +20 Upgrade instead of +25 No, I'm pretty sure before the KA nerf it was nearly impossible to kill a protoss in the late game. Like, I remember terrans just winning battles then getting stormed and dying at the ramp when they go in for the kill. yeah and there was it a balanced matchup, early to mid terran favored and late protoss favored, now its only terran favored imho
Haha I was laughing to this, which actually how I feel right now lol. Terran in early and mid game with 1/1/1. Terran in late game with ghost.
Terran lost to Protoss before that b/c no one used ghost, or just 1 or 2 and don't realize how good they are. I had always believed ghost and raven are undiscovered back then, and now look at them, they're so good. If Terran just use ghost and raven together more, they could own infestor/BL easily.
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On September 01 2011 13:26 tomatriedes wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 12:51 Blizzard_torments_me wrote:On September 01 2011 12:45 VictorJones wrote:On September 01 2011 12:31 VictorJones wrote:
I'm blown away by the amount of QQ we are getting from Terran players..
If the game isn't put more into balance by the patch, the PTR won't end up utilizing the suggested changes.
I think it comes down to Terrans not being able to come to terms with the idea that maybe a large portion of their wins actually comes down to their race being stronger instead of their "skills". Guys: I'm sorry you have never once had to deal with being the weakest race. I'm sorry that if things get overpatched, you might have to deal with that possibility. Until T's winrates aren't significantly above 50% for all MU's in the Korean pro scene though, please quit whining T.T
Your time will come. Just be patient
No my friend, Terran winrates in Korea are simply better because of a very simple reason. The pros playing Terran are just way to good. They all come from a SC1 background and most of them were pretty good in BW. If you don't see that then you have no idea about this game or the Korean pro scene. I cannot even fathom how you live life with such awful biased logic t.t Just about every Korean in the GSL today comes from a SC1 background, not just terrans. This PTR thread is actually so filled with mind-rot that I might have to discard 2 cards from my hand 1. You're probably not even Diamond League, because if you had any ideea about the game you wouldn't post such shit. 2. If there's anyone biased here, it's you. 3. No shit man, they come from BW backgrounds? Compared to the Terrans, they were pretty bad. Go look it up. The only terrans who were particularly notable in BW were Boxer and Nada. MC, Tester and Sangho were not great BW players but they at least played more televised games than the likes of MKP who never really got beyond practice partner level. MVP was decent but nowhere near the level of July in terms of results, so your number 3 is pretty debatable.
Not to be off-topic, but MVP was (I believe) the best SC1 player to crossover when he left SC1. Boxer/Nada WERE great, but MVP was far ahead (ELO shows this) when they made the switch, which is the skill level that matters.
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Haha, it looks like they gave the overseer another shot, before kicking it out of HotS. However not even a try on the hydralisk ....
Its funny how they balance things which are not the real issues of the game. Like .... worker armor change .... colossi ... sentry .... hydralisk ... corrupter ... marines ... mules and so on.
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ya i still dont know why they nerfed the hydra at all honestly. they took away 10 HP on a tier 2 unit yet keeps the +10 55 HP upgrade on marines, a tier 1 unit?
and what about the atk speed nerf? those both need to come back. or at the very least bring back the 90 HP on hydras. or better yet make it a +15 HP upgrade.
i REALLY want to see hydras being the main DPS unit in the zerg army rather then infestors. it really makes me cry that its impossible for me to do any kind of offensive push against terran with hydras.
even in ZvP chargelot archon and blink stalkers are proving to be extremly good against a mostly hydra roach army.
i really want to see hydras being more bulkier and having more DPS. not to the point where they are overpowered, just to the point where they dont get horrifically raped by nearly everything. hydras having a speed boost upgrade OFF creep would also be nice.
i know the hydra haters are gonna hate, but its obvious hydras need some kind of buffing. its honestly gettin to the point to where putting hydras back at tier 1.5, making them 1 supply, and nerfing there damage back to 10 like in BW would be a buff. infact i wouldnt mind if roaches and hydras switched places.
put roaches at tier 2, bring back there 2 armor and there old regen, and put hydras at tier 1.5 and costing 1 supply. switch the resource cost of them to. that would be a excellent change for zerg.
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On September 01 2011 15:17 Hristiyan wrote:
Haha, it looks like they gave the overseer another shot, before kicking it out of HotS. However not even a try on the hydralisk ....
Its funny how they balance things which are not the real issues of the game. Like .... worker armor change .... colossi ... sentry .... hydralisk ... corrupter ... marines ... mules and so on.
Let me guess. Nerf colossi, nerf sentry, buff hydralisk, buff corrupter, nerf marines, nerf mules, and so on.
Am I right?
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On September 01 2011 15:39 Gatored wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2011 15:17 Hristiyan wrote:
Haha, it looks like they gave the overseer another shot, before kicking it out of HotS. However not even a try on the hydralisk ....
Its funny how they balance things which are not the real issues of the game. Like .... worker armor change .... colossi ... sentry .... hydralisk ... corrupter ... marines ... mules and so on.
Let me guess. Nerf colossi, nerf sentry, buff hydralisk, buff corrupter, nerf marines, nerf mules, and so on. Am I right?
no, just buff hydras.
or nerf hydras and put them to tier 1 and buff roaches and put them to tier 2. either one would be good.
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Dear god I hate this Raven change as a Terran who fucking despises Mech in TvT. Barracks change seems weird, but guess we'll see less 2rax which is good. Raven change will be cool for obs'ing pro games and GSL etc. Kinda impartial to all the other changes.
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EPT
