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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:16 NewtofDoom wrote: I'm just going by liquipedia, but it says 6+10 to light. EDIT: sorry, misread that. I'm just stupid. It is only 19. Well the game says different  | ||
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NewtofDoom
United States29 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:18 ObserverSix2One wrote: liquipedia is wrong. I just checked in the game, 14 VS LIGHT +5 is 19 I was wrong. Liquipedia has the correct information, I just misread it. Disregard what I said. | ||
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NuKedUFirst
Canada3139 Posts
Do you play Starcraft II? These are the Starcraft 2 patch notes, not BW.. that 5 second delay is also a 5 second delay on fact and starport if you throw em down right after. 1 1 1 isn't broken like you want people to believe it is.. it's all mind games. | ||
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ObserverSix2One
Israel115 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:19 obnoxkid wrote: Can some explain what this means??? "If a unit provides power, that power is temporarily transferred to a player using Neural Parasite." hm... maybe like, guardian shields? | ||
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Ichi_
France81 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:18 JDub wrote: +1 range to an immortal doesn't make that much of a difference against roaches. The immortals could hit the roaches anyway. Maybe they'll get another shot off in an engagement. You clearly don't play Protoss, wondering whether you loaded up BW by mistake when your retarded immortal shoots *nothing* in the entire fucking fight because its range sucks. | ||
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aristarchus
United States652 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:20 ObserverSix2One wrote: hm... maybe like, guardian shields? My guess is that that means supply - i.e., you get something for NPing an overlord. Though that's extremely minor.... | ||
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kickinhead
Switzerland2069 Posts
On August 26 2011 00:48 plated.rawr wrote: I don't understand the fungal growth change. Its power does not lie in its one-shot lethality, but rather in its ease of reapplication after the first cast. Marginally reducing the damage does nothing to change this, so it's a silly change. Increased ranged on immortals sounds painful for roaches. Blue flame change makes the upgrade overpriced, but I agree the damage nerf is justified. Other than that, the rest looks decent enough. There is one thing I don't like about the Fungal Change and the Blue Flame-Change: it's a pretty race-specific nerf. Take Fungal for example: I really don't mind the slight nerf against Marines, cuz it will be still very strong and Infestor+Broodlords will still be viable against Vikings etc. But Against Protoss, there is really no reason to nerf Fungal IMHO. Same is true for Blue Flame: It's ridiculously overpowered against Zerg and even though it's also very good against Workers of every race, BF-Hellions are really underused in TvP and I don't think a nerf against Zealots is really needed. That will just make Mech an even less viable option against Protoss... I also think that Blue Flame is by design a "bad" Upgrade for the game, cuz it puts the Hellion, which is very strong against light Units, even without the Upgrade, in an even bigger niche and therefore makes it a very counter-oriented Unit that by design can be countered easily by just not making light Units. Why not give them +5 against light and +5 against Armored or sth.? Or just get rid of the Upgrade and give the Hellion sth. else, like spidermines. I also don't think that -5 against light is that big of a deal tbh - you just need 1 more Hellion to 2shot Workers and with 4 Hellions being able to fit into a Dropship and with them being able to get pumped out by reactors, that really doesn't matter against Zerg and worker, but really matters against Protoss, which is exactly the opposite of what they should go for in balancing the Hellion... Why not tackle the Hellion-Problem from another angle, like reducing the AoE, rate of fire, make the building-time higher or anything like that? Maybe even a reactor-nerf would be a decent solution to both the hellion-Problem and the Marines, that are still incredibly powerful. Just make the reactor more expensive or build slower or sth. like that. | ||
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moregamethanSEGA
United States76 Posts
1 - + Show Spoiler + nobody can get a raven close enough to an enemy unit use the seeker missle so who care how fast it moves? hey blizzard, here an idea, how bout you increase the range (to 7) of the spell OR the speed of the raven (to 2.75). I mean, something in the terran air armada needs be able to retreat). So dont piss in my pocket and tell me its raining - the raven still sucks and is unusable. Instead of the medivac upgrade WHICH NO ONE USES, give the raven a speed/invisibility upgrade for pete's sake. 2- + Show Spoiler + barracks nerf literally makes no sense. let me repeat: this actually doesn't make sense to nerf the building time - thus slowing down all tech for terran (factory, starport). i didnt realize the 11/11 rax vs zerg was this imba that now I have to worry about getting 6 pooled every game now outside of 1v1s. someone needs to explain why this change was made. workers harrass me while i build the barracks every game anyhow so I'm already losing minerals cause I have to send another worker off the line as is - why must you make it so painful for terrans to just make their first non-worker unit? 3 - + Show Spoiler + the blue flame nerf is excessive without a doubt (50% nerf). now it can't two shot marines or scvs. now i have to reseach +1 for that? really blizzard? when a unit becomes popular you make it worthless? why would i even research that upgrade now for +5 damage (ONLY vs light). i didnt realize hellions were that good (oh wait they are not). it called make stalkers and roaches (which is the standard anyhow for those races)... and now lings with speed can easily own hellons (which was the whole point of the fracking unit/upgrade). Oh and if you didnt know, now banelings REALLY own hellons. 4 - + Show Spoiler + Ultralisk build time buff is unbelievable. 55 secs for tier 3 units... enough said. ultra now fastest tier 3 unit to make (not to mention you can make multiple at a time as zerg. ultra make faster than bc, thor, banshee, raven. - really? REALLY? I dont care how long it takes to get hive this messes up multiplayer in big way. 5 - + Show Spoiler + overseer cost reduced is acceptable BUT given the relativity of each races detector, the raven costs too much in comparision. yeah, its abilites are nice, but you have to upgrade the crap out of it (im sorry but turret ability is worthless 99% of time. so basically i have to pay almost 4 times as much in gas (and even more in minerals) as any other race for the same thing, effectively - plus i have to tech to starport with a techlab? this just doesn't make sense to me in any way, shape, or form. the raven is also the slowest of all detectors and is most fragile given it is both slow and not invisible - therefore its not even useful AT ALL for scouting. Thank you blizzard for removing all fun from sc2 for terrans. I bet next patch with nerf the ghosts. I truly hope blizzard has plans to add new units cause it getting a little out of hand with all these nerfs for terran. As for the rest of the changes, I dont see anything wrong with them. Blink is too good and too cheap imho. i should take longer to get blink than blue flame for sure. mothership buff is hilariously pointless. immortal range SHOULD have been increased long ago casue its so slow and bulky anyways. warp prism buff makes sense as that unit was, in fact, too fragile (even though it only cost minerals...), but regardless that unit costs half as much as medivac and you can argue its a more versitile unit when used correctly. lastly, why even bother nerfing an ability like contaminate no one uses? Isn't there something else more useful/impactful that can be tweaked? Just when I was starting to enjoy mech now they throw this s**t in my face... hope the rest of you terrans feel the same way I do. maybe that way blizzard will listen. User was warned for this post | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:21 aristarchus wrote: My guess is that that means supply - i.e., you get something for NPing an overlord. Though that's extremely minor.... Power = pylons and warp prisms actually. It's a fix to an irrelevant bug regarding neuralling a WP and it doesn't stop powering whatever it was :p | ||
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Vetrocide
Norway600 Posts
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:22 moregamethanSEGA wrote: 4 - + Show Spoiler + Ultralisk build time buff is unbelievable. 55 secs for tier 3 units... enough said. ultra now fastest tier 3 unit to make (not to mention you can make multiple at a time as zerg. ultra make faster than bc, thor, banshee, raven. - really? REALLY? I dont care how long it takes to get hive this messes up multiplayer in big way. High Templar are, by a million miles, the fastest T3 unit to make. I think chronod collo is faster than that too not sure. | ||
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NemesysTV
United States1088 Posts
When a building is canceled or salvaged the minerals returned will be displayed at the building location for the owner, for enemy players a floating text will be displayed. | ||
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wklbishop
United States1286 Posts
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Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
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Ashes
United States362 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:22 moregamethanSEGA wrote: As a terran player this patch makes my blood boil, and here are my reasons why: 1 - + Show Spoiler + nobody can get a raven close enough to an enemy unit use the seeker missle so who care how fast it moves? hey blizzard, here an idea, how bout you increase the range (to 7) of the spell OR the speed of the raven (to 2.75). I mean, something in the terran air armada needs be able to retreat). So dont piss in my pocket and tell me its raining - the raven still sucks and is unusable. Instead of the medivac upgrade WHICH NO ONE USES, give the raven a speed/invisibility upgrade for pete's sake. 2- + Show Spoiler + barracks nerf literally makes no sense. let me repeat: this actually doesn't make sense to nerf the building time - thus slowing down all tech for terran (factory, starport). i didnt realize the 11/11 rax vs zerg was this imba that now I have to worry about getting 6 pooled every game now outside of 1v1s. someone needs to explain why this change was made. workers harrass me while i build the barracks every game anyhow so I'm already losing minerals cause I have to send another worker off the line as is - why must you make it so painful for terrans to just make their first non-worker unit? 3 - + Show Spoiler + the blue flame nerf is excessive without a doubt (50% nerf). now it can't two shot marines or scvs. now i have to reseach +1 for that? really blizzard? when a unit becomes popular you make it worthless? why would i even research that upgrade now for +5 damage (ONLY vs light). i didnt realize hellions were that good (oh wait they are not). it called make stalkers and roaches (which is the standard anyhow for those races)... and now lings with speed can easily own hellons (which was the whole point of the fracking unit/upgrade). Oh and if you didnt know, now banelings REALLY own hellons. 4 - + Show Spoiler + Ultralisk build time buff is unbelievable. 55 secs for tier 3 units... enough said. ultra now fastest tier 3 unit to make (not to mention you can make multiple at a time as zerg. ultra make faster than bc, thor, banshee, raven. - really? REALLY? I dont care how long it takes to get hive this messes up multiplayer in big way. 5 - + Show Spoiler + overseer cost reduced is acceptable BUT given the relativity of each races detector, the raven costs too much in comparision. yeah, its abilites are nice, but you have to upgrade the crap out of it (im sorry but turret ability is worthless 99% of time. so basically i have to pay almost 4 times as much in gas (and even more in minerals) as any other race for the same thing, effectively - plus i have to tech to starport with a techlab? this just doesn't make sense to me in any way, shape, or form. the raven is also the slowest of all detectors and is most fragile given it is both slow and not invisible - therefore its not even useful AT ALL for scouting. Thank you blizzard for removing all fun from sc2 for terrans. I bet next patch with nerf the ghosts. I truly hope blizzard has plans to add new units cause it getting a little out of hand with all these nerfs for terran. As for the rest of the changes, I dont see anything wrong with them. Blink is too good and too cheap imho. i should take longer to get blink than blue flame for sure. mothership buff is hilariously pointless. immortal range SHOULD have been increased long ago casue its so slow and bulky anyways. warp prism buff makes sense as that unit was, in fact, too fragile (even though it only cost minerals...), but regardless that unit costs half as much as medivac and you can argue its a more versitile unit when used correctly. lastly, why even bother nerfing an ability like contaminate no one uses? Isn't there something else more useful/impactful that can be tweaked? Just when I was starting to enjoy mech now they throw this s**t in my face... hope the rest of you terrans feel the same way I do. maybe that way blizzard will listen. Lol look at you being so biased man! Chill. At the end of the day things work out. When you are thinking of balance changes, you are comparing units per se to the other race which is unfair. What does an overseer do, it gives supply to zerg, and detection . Raven gives detection + pdd + hsm + auto turret. Don't you think its justified that ravens should be worth more than obs and overseer. Think about it, your raven is the single most precious unit in the 1/1/1 combo. without it, the protoss stalkers will have a merry day against 1/1/1 builds. | ||
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:22 moregamethanSEGA wrote: As a terran player this patch makes my blood boil, and here are my reasons why: 1 - + Show Spoiler + nobody can get a raven close enough to an enemy unit use the seeker missle so who care how fast it moves? hey blizzard, here an idea, how bout you increase the range (to 7) of the spell OR the speed of the raven (to 2.75). I mean, something in the terran air armada needs be able to retreat). So dont piss in my pocket and tell me its raining - the raven still sucks and is unusable. Instead of the medivac upgrade WHICH NO ONE USES, give the raven a speed/invisibility upgrade for pete's sake. 2- + Show Spoiler + barracks nerf literally makes no sense. let me repeat: this actually doesn't make sense to nerf the building time - thus slowing down all tech for terran (factory, starport). i didnt realize the 11/11 rax vs zerg was this imba that now I have to worry about getting 6 pooled every game now outside of 1v1s. someone needs to explain why this change was made. workers harrass me while i build the barracks every game anyhow so I'm already losing minerals cause I have to send another worker off the line as is - why must you make it so painful for terrans to just make their first non-worker unit? 3 - + Show Spoiler + the blue flame nerf is excessive without a doubt (50% nerf). now it can't two shot marines or scvs. now i have to reseach +1 for that? really blizzard? when a unit becomes popular you make it worthless? why would i even research that upgrade now for +5 damage (ONLY vs light). i didnt realize hellions were that good (oh wait they are not). it called make stalkers and roaches (which is the standard anyhow for those races)... and now lings with speed can easily own hellons (which was the whole point of the fracking unit/upgrade). Oh and if you didnt know, now banelings REALLY own hellons. 4 - + Show Spoiler + Ultralisk build time buff is unbelievable. 55 secs for tier 3 units... enough said. ultra now fastest tier 3 unit to make (not to mention you can make multiple at a time as zerg. ultra make faster than bc, thor, banshee, raven. - really? REALLY? I dont care how long it takes to get hive this messes up multiplayer in big way. 5 - + Show Spoiler + overseer cost reduced is acceptable BUT given the relativity of each races detector, the raven costs too much in comparision. yeah, its abilites are nice, but you have to upgrade the crap out of it (im sorry but turret ability is worthless 99% of time. so basically i have to pay almost 4 times as much in gas (and even more in minerals) as any other race for the same thing, effectively - plus i have to tech to starport with a techlab? this just doesn't make sense to me in any way, shape, or form. the raven is also the slowest of all detectors and is most fragile given it is both slow and not invisible - therefore its not even useful AT ALL for scouting. Thank you blizzard for removing all fun from sc2 for terrans. I bet next patch with nerf the ghosts. I truly hope blizzard has plans to add new units cause it getting a little out of hand with all these nerfs for terran. As for the rest of the changes, I dont see anything wrong with them. Blink is too good and too cheap imho. i should take longer to get blink than blue flame for sure. mothership buff is hilariously pointless. immortal range SHOULD have been increased long ago casue its so slow and bulky anyways. warp prism buff makes sense as that unit was, in fact, too fragile (even though it only cost minerals...), but regardless that unit costs half as much as medivac and you can argue its a more versitile unit when used correctly. lastly, why even bother nerfing an ability like contaminate no one uses? Isn't there something else more useful/impactful that can be tweaked? Just when I was starting to enjoy mech now they throw this s**t in my face... hope the rest of you terrans feel the same way I do. maybe that way blizzard will listen. Wow, a huge post of FAIL. You know that most of the numbers and facts in your post are wrong? Maybe you should doublecheck what you are talking about and come back to us with something normal (and when you are less emotional). | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
Did you play the campaign? Remember when you picked up some gas/minerals on the map and a number popped up showing how much you got? Just like that. It lets the opponent and spectators know if a building was cancelled/salvaged or killed. | ||
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
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NemesysTV
United States1088 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:32 Yaotzin wrote: Did you play the campaign? Remember when you picked up some gas/minerals on the map and a number popped up showing how much you got? Just like that. It lets the opponent and spectators know if a building was cancelled/salvaged or killed. Wouldnt that help all ins too much to know when to attack when ur opponent is trying to move out? | ||
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