|
Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne
There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 |
On August 26 2011 01:36 ScouraE wrote:
Hmm...
Immortal change will make people use more immortals, so that should be ok.
Mothership change is great, cuz the lag is just too obvious for the opponent.
stalker change is to nerf Huk. (But with chrono boost it's going to only increase 2 more seconds of research time, so not a big change.)
Warp prism: FINALLY!
Hellions: the reaction of MLG Anehiem.
Seeker missle useful for high level play, will make lower level players really angry.
infestor: being a zerg player i say that's bad. (bias)
Overseer is a good change, don't get why contamination cost sooooo much now though.
Ultralisk: FINALLY, cuz i always feel ultralisks takes forever to build, and i see many people die because it was building.
I think this was for zvz where corruption was already strong, you can now have 2x as many overseers as before which makes chain corruption very powerful.
|
On August 26 2011 01:52 darkness wrote:What I want to see as well is carrier buff. You don't see any of those units anymore.  Thoughts?
you would if gateway units weren't so effective. Why waste gas on stargates when blink stalkers are the counter to everything? :D
|
On August 26 2011 01:55 Jonneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 01:52 darkness wrote:What I want to see as well is carrier buff. You don't see any of those units anymore. Thoughts? you would if gateway units weren't so effective. Why waste gas on stargates when blink stalkers are the counter to everything? :D
You're right, so imba versus marauders.
|
Anybody have a list of units that used to be able to outrun HSM but no longer can?
I like almost all of these changes, especially the immortal range buff (and I'm a z player).
I still think you'll have some problems with them stuck behind your stalkers simply because the stalkers walk faster, so they'll tend to be in front whenever you move them, but it should help a ton.
The overseer change is interesting. With a gas reduction by 50% and contaminate energy increase of 66% it's actually a buff for contaminate (you get more contaminates per 100 gas). Not sure if that's necessary, but it'll be nice to have access to cheaper overseers for sure.
|
On August 26 2011 01:43 kickinhead wrote:
1) Use your imagination: We've seen Players just Upgrade HSM for like 1 or 2 Ravens and waiting for the Zergs Mutas to try and snipe it or a Tank thats nearby - then fire the HSM and charge in with stimmed Marines: The Mutas will have to retreat, may even get hit by the HSM and take DMG from Marines+Thors etc. You can basically use HSM against any Army that's charging towards your Army and force them to retreat and with Stimmed Marines being really fast and having extremely high DPS, Wit Marauders slowing, Tanks having enormous high range etc. running into a Terran Army just to retreat is basically suicide.
My problem with HSM isnt really the movement speed, it is quite effective right now because you can use it for controlling space and forcing the enemy army to move. Its a nifty tool with a lot of potential, and not just for pure dmg.
The problem comes from the research cost of HSM and the energy upgrade, which is 300/300 and 220 in-game seconds. After that any raven you build still needs to regenerate energy for roughly 90 in-game seconds to be able to use it. For such a costly investment the HSM is really easy to nullify and is rarely worth the huge price.
If it was cheaper resource- or energy-wise it might see more use, but right now casting even one missile is a big investment of time and money. No other spell in the entire game costs as much as 125 energy, why would the HSM? It's not THAT strong, especially against a skilled opponent. I'd say a single storm, fungal or EMP is usually much more effective.
|
On August 26 2011 01:55 Jonneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 01:52 darkness wrote:What I want to see as well is carrier buff. You don't see any of those units anymore. Thoughts? you would if gateway units weren't so effective. Why waste gas on stargates when blink stalkers are the counter to everything? :D
gateway units arent effective at all.
stalkers have low ass dps and scale like shit with upgrades.
only in situations where terrans REFUSE to upgrade do gateway units look even remotely good.
seen masses of gateway units just melt to 2/2 bio upgrades?
|
On August 25 2011 10:16 Monocle wrote:
I'm so happy right now, this looks like a great patch! The immortal range upgrade should help with the 1/1/1. It would also be cool to see warp prisms and seeker missiles become more viable. Don't really understand the barracks build time nerf though.
No why should terran have the same built time for their second structure as every other race?
.... r-tard
User was temp banned for this post.
|
On August 26 2011 01:22 moregamethanSEGA wrote:As a terran player this patch makes my blood boil, and here are my reasons why: 1 - + Show Spoiler +nobody can get a raven close enough to an enemy unit use the seeker missle so who care how fast it moves? hey blizzard, here an idea, how bout you increase the range (to 7) of the spell OR the speed of the raven (to 2.75). I mean, something in the terran air armada needs be able to retreat). So dont piss in my pocket and tell me its raining - the raven still sucks and is unusable. Instead of the medivac upgrade WHICH NO ONE USES, give the raven a speed/invisibility upgrade for pete's sake. 2- + Show Spoiler +barracks nerf literally makes no sense. let me repeat: this actually doesn't make sense to nerf the building time - thus slowing down all tech for terran (factory, starport). i didnt realize the 11/11 rax vs zerg was this imba that now I have to worry about getting 6 pooled every game now outside of 1v1s. someone needs to explain why this change was made. workers harrass me while i build the barracks every game anyhow so I'm already losing minerals cause I have to send another worker off the line as is - why must you make it so painful for terrans to just make their first non-worker unit? 3 - + Show Spoiler +the blue flame nerf is excessive without a doubt (50% nerf). now it can't two shot marines or scvs. now i have to reseach +1 for that? really blizzard? when a unit becomes popular you make it worthless? why would i even research that upgrade now for +5 damage (ONLY vs light). i didnt realize hellions were that good (oh wait they are not). it called make stalkers and roaches (which is the standard anyhow for those races)... and now lings with speed can easily own hellons (which was the whole point of the fracking unit/upgrade). Oh and if you didnt know, now banelings REALLY own hellons. 4 - + Show Spoiler +Ultralisk build time buff is unbelievable. 55 secs for tier 3 units... enough said. ultra now fastest tier 3 unit to make (not to mention you can make multiple at a time as zerg. ultra make faster than bc, thor, banshee, raven. - really? REALLY? I dont care how long it takes to get hive this messes up multiplayer in big way. 5 - + Show Spoiler +overseer cost reduced is acceptable BUT given the relativity of each races detector, the raven costs too much in comparision. yeah, its abilites are nice, but you have to upgrade the crap out of it (im sorry but turret ability is worthless 99% of time. so basically i have to pay almost 4 times as much in gas (and even more in minerals) as any other race for the same thing, effectively - plus i have to tech to starport with a techlab? this just doesn't make sense to me in any way, shape, or form. the raven is also the slowest of all detectors and is most fragile given it is both slow and not invisible - therefore its not even useful AT ALL for scouting. Thank you blizzard for removing all fun from sc2 for terrans. I bet next patch with nerf the ghosts. I truly hope blizzard has plans to add new units cause it getting a little out of hand with all these nerfs for terran. As for the rest of the changes, I dont see anything wrong with them. Blink is too good and too cheap imho. i should take longer to get blink than blue flame for sure. mothership buff is hilariously pointless. immortal range SHOULD have been increased long ago casue its so slow and bulky anyways. warp prism buff makes sense as that unit was, in fact, too fragile (even though it only cost minerals...), but regardless that unit costs half as much as medivac and you can argue its a more versitile unit when used correctly. lastly, why even bother nerfing an ability like contaminate no one uses? Isn't there something else more useful/impactful that can be tweaked? Just when I was starting to enjoy mech now they throw this s**t in my face... hope the rest of you terrans feel the same way I do. maybe that way blizzard will listen.
1. They are trying to make it more viable. Wait till pros use it well one day (kind of like has been happening to nukes recently for position) and everyone will be hailing them heroes. Don't complain when it hasn't even been seen in play yet.
2. The 5 second build to is early 2 rax pressure as well as to delay the 1/1/1 as well as the early double gas reactor hellions into cloaked banshee pressure while expand vs zerg. All strats that have been very strong as of late.
3. Name another race that can have 200 minerals worth, 1 shots multiple workers and are super fast. There's your hellion. Maybe this is why they nerfed it hm?
4. Overseers also have no damage output, are as slow as ravens pre upgrade, are tier 2 and the only non-static detection a zerg player has. Not to mention floating targets to get raped. Terran have scans, toss are in the same boat as zerg, but observers cost less, don't lose supply when they die and are cloaked.
5.Ultralisk are also the only melee tier 3 unit in the game. It is the only potential tier 3 unit to die while doing absolutely no damage. Stop complaining if you don't know the problem.
Blink is a tier 2 spell to research and you have marauders that make it pretty much useless anyway.
HOW do warp prisms have more functionality compared to medivacs and HOW do they cost half as much. 200 min != half of 100 min and 100 gas. How often have you been able to sit a medivac in your enemies base when they have units that can shoot up and not killed them. Same goes for a warp prism trying to warp in units (which will die if you kill the prism while they are warping no less).
|
This should make 2gate Robo ALOT more viable in PvP with the blink nerf, immortal buff, and vision nerf.
Thank god they buffed warp prisms, and fixed the guardian shield.
|
Russian Federation4295 Posts
Overseer contaminate buffed by gas and nerfed by mineral cost.
Now you need 8 overseer to stop one structure forever.
It's 100 gas less, than 5 Overseers, and 450 minerals more, than 5 Overseers.
|
"I think this was for zvz where corruption was already strong, you can now have 2x as many overseers as before which makes chain corruption very powerful. [/QUOTE]"
dude, what? Corruptors do corruption, not overseers....
|
If you look close enough you see that every change is more or less favoring macro game over gimmicky allins or at least allows to react properly, which is great.. I'm not saying those changes particulary are absolutely the best, but its in the right direction..
|
I find the changes to be reasonable overall. I'm very grateful for the overseer buff on cost and understand why they nerfed the contaminate spell. However the one change I don't get is:
Repeated control group and selection commands will no longer count as unique actions for APM calculation purposes.
I know APM means almost nothing early game and most people don't really care (me included), but honestly, it's called Action Per Minute, so I would expect the stat to count APM. The actions might be useless, but they are still actions. Are we starting to discriminate actions now? If Blizzard really wants to do this, then they should rename the stat to UAPM (useful) and also discard the click spam when moving units.
I don't know why this annoys me, but it does.
|
On August 25 2011 22:21 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2011 22:19 Xahhk wrote:
I don't get this at all, what match up were 7:10 blink stalkers breaking? It can actually be 6:45 for 1 base. I think it's more PvZ after forge FE.
No dude every good forge FE blink timing attack does not depend on the quickness of blink research lol. Coming 30 seconds later will have VERY minimal impact on this.
|
United Kingdom1381 Posts
Personally I cant see the rationale for the barracks build time increase. Its going to have a dramatic effect on timings (e.g. going gas first leaves you even more vulnerable to early pressure than before).
Also its a shame about the hellion nerf, the metagame was only starting to evolve and it feels like a Blizzard have thrown the toys out of the pram too soon. A research time or cost increase sounds fairer.
The contaminate nerf sounds like a good move, with the reduced gas cost, its much less risky for a zerg to go mass overseer in the end game and completely shut down the opponent's production buildings.
Also I hope they fix the bug where refunded resources show up in the Units Lost tab.
"Fixed several issues with the Units Lost tab not tracking resources correctly."
Nice they fixed it! :D
|
On August 26 2011 01:59 Heavenly wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 01:55 Jonneh wrote:On August 26 2011 01:52 darkness wrote:What I want to see as well is carrier buff. You don't see any of those units anymore. Thoughts? you would if gateway units weren't so effective. Why waste gas on stargates when blink stalkers are the counter to everything? :D You're right, so imba versus marauders.
So you use the even cheaper unit against those right? ;D
Kinda thinking the original point is pretty valid.
|
Good job blizzard. You have listened to the community well.
|
I was hoping the carrier would've gotten more love, since at this point it's virtually strictly worse than a battlecruiser. (longer build time, more minerals after 4 interceptors built, no ability, lower dps, same speed, less hp+shields, less armor, 50 less gas than a battlecruiser to make up for all that!)
I love the rest of the changes, though.
|
On August 26 2011 02:12 Jonneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 01:59 Heavenly wrote:On August 26 2011 01:55 Jonneh wrote:On August 26 2011 01:52 darkness wrote:What I want to see as well is carrier buff. You don't see any of those units anymore. Thoughts? you would if gateway units weren't so effective. Why waste gas on stargates when blink stalkers are the counter to everything? :D You're right, so imba versus marauders. So you use the even cheaper unit against those right? ;D Kinda thinking the original point is pretty valid.
Yeah no. They're a useful support unit in PvT but they lose to basically everything Terran can build in a straight up fight.
|
On August 26 2011 02:12 Jonneh wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2011 01:59 Heavenly wrote:On August 26 2011 01:55 Jonneh wrote:On August 26 2011 01:52 darkness wrote:What I want to see as well is carrier buff. You don't see any of those units anymore. Thoughts? you would if gateway units weren't so effective. Why waste gas on stargates when blink stalkers are the counter to everything? :D You're right, so imba versus marauders. So you use the even cheaper unit against those right? ;D Kinda thinking the original point is pretty valid.
Actually marauders own zealots AND stallkers. Marines own zealots and stalkers, too as long as you micro.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
