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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55 | ||
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Bagi
Germany6799 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:21 andrea20 wrote: Well, sure, but does that matter after a fleet of BCs greet the enemy army with a yamato gun salute? That literally never happens in a competitive game. | ||
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Mjolnir
912 Posts
Infestor nerf kinda annoys me. They weren't OP, and I feel people were just starting to get good at countering them - especially in PvZ where feedback snipes were becoming pretty common. Nerfing the damage just says to me that blizz doesn't "get it", because it was the root that was wrecking Protoss in PvZ, not that extra 7 damage against armored that was removed. Oh well. That's a change that'll go live for sure. Not game-breaking by any stretch but still a pain in the ass as it seems like another knee-jerk reaction to all the QQ of late. Protoss buffs are good. I always thought Immortal range was absolute shit. Now maybe they'll actually shoot at things instead of doing a disco behind the front lines. | ||
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Elean
689 Posts
On August 26 2011 01:59 RibsNGibs wrote: The overseer change is interesting. With a gas reduction by 50% and contaminate energy increase of 66% it's actually a buff for contaminate (you get more contaminates per 100 gas). Not sure if that's necessary, but it'll be nice to have access to cheaper overseers for sure. A buff to contaminate ? Lol, you are a funny one. It's a huge nerf. 1) It means you get your contaminate much later. And this is a huge nerf to overseer in ZvZ. It will really hurt strategies getting lair before hatch. 2) When you fly an overseer over the ennemy base, your main objective is to scout. You are not going to send 2 overseer just to get 1 more contaminate. Befor the patch, you could get 2 contaminate with a single overseer, now it's over. In ZvP & ZvT, contaminate has never been really powerfull, but at least it was cool. So sad to nerf this. In ZvZ, it is usefull and that is great, no need to change it. | ||
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Namu
United States826 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:18 Yaotzin wrote: 20 Terrans in Code S. 38% PvT winrate. Etc. And these changes aren't even extreme. They're fairly small changes that will hopefully address those issues. Also they promote more fun play, like drop play from toss. no offense but you're clueless if you think these changes are "fairly small" first of all the 5 second rax build time will make 2rax openers quite a bit less effective (11/11 will be like 12/12, etc, and won't be worth it considering you have to cut 2 scvs to execute) only proxy 2 rax will be worth it now. the hellion nerf changes worker kill shot from 2 to 3 which is quite big as well. red flame hellions kill workers in 3 shots (simultaneously). basically the blue flame nerf makes the upgrade only useful vs lings. the immortal buff will definitely help stop 1/1/1 now the warp prism buff will help tosses harass in pvz/pvt and will help save hts from emps when going zealot-archon-ht playstyle (this was possible before, just easier now) i can see where blizzard is going with these patches & i agree with most of these patches but saying theyre small changes is quite a stretch | ||
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Jonneh
United Kingdom67 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:22 Yaotzin wrote: Not sure what you're disagreeing about. Stalkers lose to most units in the game in a straight up fight. They're really shit at straight up fights, as designed. They get utterly demolished by marauders, and marines beat them just as cost effectively, if not more (no gas required!). And which blink stalkers fight straight up that you know of? ;p | ||
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Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:26 Elean wrote: A buff to contaminate ? Lol, you are a funny one. It's a huge nerf. 1) It means you get your contaminate much later. And this is a huge nerf to overseer in ZvZ. It will really hurt strategies getting lair before hatch. 2) When you fly an overseer over the ennemy base, your main objective is to scout. You are not going to send 2 overseer just to get 1 more contaminate. Befor the patch, you could get 2 contaminate with a single overseer, now it's over. In ZvP & ZvT, contaminate has never been really powerfull, but at least it was cool. So sad to nerf this. In ZvZ, it is usefull and that is great, no need to change it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=258937 | ||
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Maxie
Sweden2653 Posts
Note: I'm mainly conerned about hellion vs marine fights. | ||
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andrea20
Canada441 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:25 Bagi wrote: That literally never happens in a competitive game. See MVP vs Bomber at GSTL (Yamato gunned four vikings to instantly turn around the fight), Boxer vs Rain at MLG (the BIG Star Wars fight). It happens. Besides, I believe carriers have been only used 3 times in GSL history. (HongUn win in GSL3, MC loss vs. Jinro, HongUn loss in GSTL) BCs may be uncommon, but they've been used at least three times as much as carriers. | ||
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Dementophobia
Austria64 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:08 Loodah wrote: No dude every good forge FE blink timing attack does not depend on the quickness of blink research lol. Coming 30 seconds later will have VERY minimal impact on this. Yeah, just watch the Steal-this-build daily from Day[9] where he discusses Huks Blink Stalker PvZ. Huk gets blink very early and Day[9] concludes that he needs it that early only for pretty rare occasions. He even thinks that spending less Chronos on the Blink research would be a good variation. I love to go Blink Stalkers in PvZ, but after this patch I will have to change my build a little. Just a little, I don't think it will be broken. | ||
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Namu
United States826 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:29 Maxie wrote: So, what happens to TvT now that blue flame got halved? I absolutely love playing the new TvT style, and I really hope it'll still be viable post patch if the blue flame nerf goes through. Note: I'm mainly conerned about hellion vs marine fights. it's very hard to tell right now but for sure marines will have a much better time vs hellions, since even after stimming they still need 3 shots from a blue flame hellion to kill | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:28 Jonneh wrote: And which blink stalkers fight straight up that you know of? ;p ..Read the comment I was quoting. It said stalkers counter everything. In no way do they counter marines or marauders or countless other things, because they can't even fight them. It's like saying Zerglings counter mass hellions or something. Yeah, in certain circumstances they do well. Overall they do fucking badly. | ||
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Wire
United States494 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:28 Existor wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=258937 lol owned elean. The warp prism buff seems like a nice subtle boost to protoss. white-ra must be partying his pants off. Has anyone tested the infestor change to be sure that it still takes 2 fungals to kill combat shielded marines that are being healed by medivacs? It seems a little too close to comfort for me. Other than that the changes seem alright, nothing too crazy. Buffs were needed and we all just have to deal with nerfs, amiright? :D | ||
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-ZiG-
United States84 Posts
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Trealador
United States207 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:29 andrea20 wrote: See MVP vs Bomber, Boxer vs Rain at MLG. It happens. Besides, I believe carriers have been only used 3 times in GSL history. (HongUn win in GSL3, MC loss vs. Jinro, HongUn loss in GSTL) BCs may be uncommon, but they've been used at least three times as much as carriers. Do not use TvT in comparison for PvT. TvT is a huge stand off with tanks so you literally have ages to make BCs. If you give a terran enough time to make a dozen BCs as Protoss you really are doing it wrong. Also, buffing warp prism (a mineral only unit) will be reverted soon enough. It just takes protoss a buff to an extremely good unit for them to actually want to think about taking a risk with it. Sorry your 200 mineral unit is too risky to try when terran have been using a 100/100 unit for ages and is considered regular play. All drop play is countered by seeing it coming, to consider that the reason a warp prism was not used because it was too squishy is laughable and I honestly think that buffing the shields is completely retarded. Increase hull health sure, now it can get hit and fully health in 10 seconds out of combat versus medivacs which will now have less health and cost $ to be repaired. Not to mention you can drop stuff and then warp more in, with a good number of warp gates this can be really abusive with 8-10 zealots thrown in a mineral line. | ||
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RaMto
Australia18 Posts
5 sec delay over an entire match is a huge effect on terran macro. Maybe you terrans will be the ones cowering on your ramp in fear of early aggression now. <3 u blizz | ||
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Yaotzin
South Africa4280 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:33 Wire wrote: Has anyone tested the infestor change to be sure that it still takes 2 fungals to kill combat shielded marines that are being healed by medivacs? A marine being healed won't die, no. It only requires 6HP of healing in the time of 2 fungals, so it'll comfortably survive. How many live depends on medivac count of course. Also, buffing warp prism (a mineral only unit) will be reverted soon enough. It just takes protoss a buff to an extremely good unit for them to actually want to think about taking a risk with it. Sorry your 200 mineral unit is too risky to try when terran have been using a 100/100 unit for ages and is considered regular play. The difference is the units Terran drop are about 500 million times better in every way. | ||
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Oh Nooo
Bulgaria2 Posts
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Namu
United States826 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:33 Wire wrote: lol owned elean. The warp prism buff seems like a nice subtle boost to protoss. white-ra must be partying his pants off. Has anyone tested the infestor change to be sure that it still takes 2 fungals to kill combat shielded marines that are being healed by medivacs? It seems a little too close to comfort for me. Other than that the changes seem alright, nothing too crazy. Buffs were needed and we all just have to deal with nerfs, amiright? :D 2 fungals could never kill marines being healed by medivacs (not even now) | ||
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andrea20
Canada441 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:38 Trealador wrote: Do not use TvT in comparison for PvT. TvT is a huge stand off with tanks so you literally have ages to make BCs. If you give a terran enough time to make a dozen BCs as Protoss you really are doing it wrong. Actually, the discussion wasn't whether BCs were viable in PvT, but rather whether the carrier was even useful at all. | ||
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Trealador
United States207 Posts
On August 26 2011 02:40 RaMto wrote: keep the theory-crafting coming terrans. Just face it your race was imbalanced as recognized by blizzard and now its going to be fixed. Guardian shield buff vs tank/ immortal +1 range and 5 more on barracks production bye bye 1-1-1 (waves). High master protoss for anyone that even cares. 5 sec delay over an entire match is a huge effect on terran macro. Maybe you terrans will be the ones cowering on your ramp in fear of early aggression now. <3 u blizz Protoss are designed to turtle until deathball, sorry you want to be able to 4 gate and win every game. 1/1/1 has failed a decent number of times in high level games, just protoss who can't figure it out needed the help I guess. although i dont think I have ever seen a deathball lose to a zerg...funny what balance means to some. | ||
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