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Patch 1.4 PTR Notes (updated 9/8) - Page 142

Forum Index > Closed
9040 CommentsPost a Reply
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Since this whole topic degenerated into the usual balance flamefest where every topic ends up if unmoderated it's time for it to clean up. Locking this down for a while. Any posts made after my post [page 233] not addressing the changes in this patch directly and containting flames or general balance whine will get banned for at least a week. ~Nyovne

There is way too much flaming in this thread right now. Calm down before you post! (Page 271) ~iamke55
KingwAyz
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom16 Posts
August 25 2011 16:12 GMT
#2821
So happy about the increased Immortal range, should make it so much easier to focus tanks.
uPZodiak
Profile Joined August 2011
Portugal6 Posts
August 25 2011 16:12 GMT
#2822
On August 26 2011 01:10 The_Sanjuro wrote:
All Terrans hate this patch. I wish the raven would be buffed a little bit more than just a faster seeker missile. I would of been happy with the energy being reduced down to 75 and do 75 damage instead of 100. All other races have an awesome spell caster(Infestor, HT) that do insane damage. If Raven seeker missle was 75 energy it would balance the spell casters out a bit. Ghost just arent cutting it anymore.



Are u serious? Ghosts can snipe EVERY unit zerg has, and ghosts can EMP EVERY UNIT protoss has.

rastaban
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States2294 Posts
August 25 2011 16:12 GMT
#2823
Yay, so happy with these changes!

I wonder if combining Immortals with warp prism drop pickup micro will be part of the answer to 111.
Tyler: "...damn it, that's StarCraft. Opening doors is what we do. Being the first to find food is the greatest pleasure a player can have!"
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
August 25 2011 16:13 GMT
#2824
On August 26 2011 01:11 NewtofDoom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 01:06 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:03 NewtofDoom wrote:
BF hellions will still 2 shot probes and drones... but not SCVs

19+19 is how much? is it enough to 2 shot 40 hp probe/drone?

16 + 5 = 21...

Isn't it 8+6light+5blue?
s3183529
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia707 Posts
August 25 2011 16:13 GMT
#2825
On August 26 2011 01:12 uPZodiak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 01:10 The_Sanjuro wrote:
All Terrans hate this patch. I wish the raven would be buffed a little bit more than just a faster seeker missile. I would of been happy with the energy being reduced down to 75 and do 75 damage instead of 100. All other races have an awesome spell caster(Infestor, HT) that do insane damage. If Raven seeker missle was 75 energy it would balance the spell casters out a bit. Ghost just arent cutting it anymore.



Are u serious? Ghosts can snipe EVERY unit zerg has, and ghosts can EMP EVERY UNIT protoss has.


Don't bother answering him, ask him to watch and learn how Koreans use ghosts.
kodas
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States418 Posts
August 25 2011 16:13 GMT
#2826
I would love this patch if they just took out the 5 sec on barracks, just a stupid change, with this if you get proxied, the protoss can have a zealot out before you have a single marine.
Get paper, fuck bitches, smoke trees, mass thors.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 25 2011 16:13 GMT
#2827
On August 26 2011 01:12 rastaban wrote:
Yay, so happy with these changes!

I wonder if combining Immortals with warp prism drop pickup micro will be part of the answer to 111.

It will be part of being a total boss. Can't wait for immortal drop micro ^_^
windsupernova
Profile Joined October 2010
Mexico5280 Posts
August 25 2011 16:14 GMT
#2828
On August 26 2011 01:05 Micket wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 00:44 harhar! wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:33 Pengu wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:31 harhar! wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:21 sleepingdog wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:19 harhar! wrote:
btw. roach-hydra is imba in zvt. ppl just dont know it yet but its true.


imba in that is loses against pretty much every conceivable combo of terran


no it does not. just wait and see, its going to be the standart in zvt, at least for a while.


:S Based on what >?

Marine marauder crushes it ? Add in tanks it gets crushed more, add in medics even more.


who goes mmm in tvz? and no it does not get crushed by tanks, thats the point. i met a GM guy in a tourney once, who crushed me with this strat after i was already ahead quite a bit. i asked him about this strat and he told me, that he beats terrans like tlo, strelok and so on and ahas a zvt winrate of 90%. and i found that believable.

(though there also were some infestors/blings mixed in, thats to keep in mind).

You based your entire theory of roach hydra taking over the world from one guy who is better than you beating you.

Roach Hydra results in Terran being up in bases because Zerg cannot do a thing to deny it. Tanks. Marines in large numbers cannot be beaten by any non aoe unit in the game, and destroy roach/hydra with medivac support. Equal supplies of marines and roach/hydra would be a funny thing to watch. Roaches and hydras just overkill way too much to be considered good dps units. They can't defeat mass stalkers I don't see how they can defeat marines. Tanks. Also, how do you deal with drops? They are so slow. Also, tanks.


You should watch the GSL match (I think it was Thorzain vs GuineaPig), he rolls Zerg and goes Roach hydra and does pretty well against Throzain. While I don´t think its Imba like this guy says its definitively good enough composition.

Just saying in case you haven´t seen this composition in Action
"Its easy, just trust your CPU".-Boxer on being good at games
uPZodiak
Profile Joined August 2011
Portugal6 Posts
August 25 2011 16:14 GMT
#2829
On August 26 2011 01:13 s3183529 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 01:12 uPZodiak wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:10 The_Sanjuro wrote:
All Terrans hate this patch. I wish the raven would be buffed a little bit more than just a faster seeker missile. I would of been happy with the energy being reduced down to 75 and do 75 damage instead of 100. All other races have an awesome spell caster(Infestor, HT) that do insane damage. If Raven seeker missle was 75 energy it would balance the spell casters out a bit. Ghost just arent cutting it anymore.



Are u serious? Ghosts can snipe EVERY unit zerg has, and ghosts can EMP EVERY UNIT protoss has.


Don't bother answering him, ask him to watch and learn how Koreans use ghosts.



He deffinetly should...
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 16:15:33
August 25 2011 16:14 GMT
#2830
On August 26 2011 01:11 Yaotzin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 01:08 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:06 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:05 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:00 tnud wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:58 WArped wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:55 s3rp wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:44 Sqq wrote:
Just me who feels the HSM is way to strong now ? It can kill so much shit. 2 ravens 2 HSMs and a lot of units will just evaporate


The blast Radius is not all that big. The explosion looks huge bug the damage radius itsself isn't all that big.


It will just require a slight amount of micro to dodge it, no different to dodging storm, fungal etc. Imo this is the best change they have made this patch.

Not to be pecky, but you can't dodge fungal. It's instant and locks you there for the entire duration..

Yes, you can. With Blink most easily but even without it. I seen it multiple times. The trick is you don't do it once you see the infestor come, you have to do it before as in predict when the infestor is going to show up. The thing is, zergs do not select infestors to cast fungal with and often do not check if it is in range. They click fungal at the spot and there is a delay from that moment and the moment infestor with enough mana comes to range and casts it.

This is prediction, not dodging. Fungal is not dodgeable, just as feedback for example is not.

Feedback is not dodgeable because once HT gets into range he always hits that unit. Fungal hits the spot where those units might not still be. That is a dodge.

You have a curious definition of dodgeable. Seeker missile is dodgeable, fungal is instant cast and undodgeable. Moving before they cast it because their infestor is stuck in the back is not dodging, it's prediction - realising you're about to get fungalled and moving/spreading.

You can't dodge something that happens the instant you cast it, which fungal does.

By your definition Storm is not dodgable as well. Yes, you can run away from it once it is cast, but you consider dodging only if you dodge what is not instant.

EDIT: Half of dodging Storm is actually predicting. And half of casting good storm is also predicting.
NewtofDoom
Profile Joined March 2011
United States29 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-08-25 16:17:44
August 25 2011 16:16 GMT
#2831
On August 26 2011 01:13 -Archangel- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 01:11 NewtofDoom wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:06 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:03 NewtofDoom wrote:
BF hellions will still 2 shot probes and drones... but not SCVs

19+19 is how much? is it enough to 2 shot 40 hp probe/drone?

16 + 5 = 21...

Isn't it 8+6light+5blue?

I'm just going by liquipedia, but it says 6+10 to light.

EDIT: sorry, misread that. I'm just stupid. It is only 19.
Eps
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada240 Posts
August 25 2011 16:16 GMT
#2832
After thinking about Ravens for a bit and trying to fathom Blizzard's approach to this problem, this is what I came up with.

The Terran buff to the Raven in this patch attempted to fix an underused ability of the Ravens. However it did it in the one aspect of Seeker Missiles that benefits it the least.
The problem with Ravens was not due to the speed of Seeker Missiles, but rather the energy cost of it and the ridiculous range that it has (6).

This buff increases the SM speed, but how does it address the issue of the Raven becoming sniped by abilities? Feedback with their range of 9, means an instant kill on the Raven way before it even gets close enough to deploy its ability. Neural Parasite similarly has 9 range and suddenly the Terran lost control of the Raven and has become a new threat and liability for the T player.

Unit wise, the only Ground-to-Air Attacker that the Raven outranges is the Marine and Unupgraded Range Hydras (which are seldom seen in TvZ in the first place). Stalkers are still on even ground with them as they have the same range and the ability to blink and run away if necessary after a Raven snipe. There is no way that a Raven can outrun Stalkers and expect to survive the ability drop due to their speed.

The utility of the Seeker Missile is also called into question. For Air Units that may attempt to snipe Ravens. If a Phoenix or a few Mutas came in to attack the Raven. Which will most likely be sitting on top of Marines, the Seeker Missile becomes a 100 damage AOE that becomes detrimental to the Terran Army.
Similarly, let's say the Terran is fighting against the melee units before it gets to the Terran line. It's on the Terran to launch it from the Raven Way before it gets close enough, otherwise the Enemy unit that becomes targeted may just run straight into the Terran line.

The other complaint about the Seeker Missile is the energy cost of it. At 125 Energy, it's essentially a One shot unit that becomes obsolete for the rest of the battle after it has deployed. It can only drop a Turret afterwards with the remaining energy and is a detector, and in most cases Terrans can scan if they need it.

There's reasons Terrans do not use Seeker Missiles, and that is not because of the speed of it. It's due to the laughable range and the high energy cost and investment into an ability that may not provide any safe returns.

I propose rather than buffing the speed of Seeker Missiles. Decrease the energy to 100 so that PDD can be used. This way after the Seeker Missile is deployed, the Raven still has a purpose in battle. To compensate for the reduced energy cost and to prevent Seeker Missile Spam, increase the Cooldown of the ability to 15-20seconds. Most battles will finish within that time frame anyways, and a second Seeker Missile cannot be deployed within a reasonable time from the same unit.
A range buff of +1 on the ability will also help it from getting sniped before it even gets a chance to deploy it's ability.
Pengu
Profile Joined April 2011
England226 Posts
August 25 2011 16:16 GMT
#2833
On August 26 2011 01:10 The_Sanjuro wrote:
All Terrans hate this patch. I wish the raven would be buffed a little bit more than just a faster seeker missile. I would of been happy with the energy being reduced down to 75 and do 75 damage instead of 100. All other races have an awesome spell caster(Infestor, HT) that do insane damage. If Raven seeker missle was 75 energy it would balance the spell casters out a bit. Ghost just arent cutting it anymore.


:S Lots like it and agree with it, Seeker is a very powerful spell its like a mini nuke each time it hits you do not need to improve it that much more for it to have a use.

Also WHAT! Ghosts are brilliant units...
Half health of a protoss army, Check
Remove energy from other casters, Check
Out range other casters, Check (I think)
Become invisible, Check
Snipe Broodlords and ultra, Check
Deal some good damage as a unit, Check
Launch a Nuclear fucking missile, Check mate
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
August 25 2011 16:16 GMT
#2834
On August 26 2011 01:14 windsupernova wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 01:05 Micket wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:44 harhar! wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:33 Pengu wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:31 harhar! wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:21 sleepingdog wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:19 harhar! wrote:
btw. roach-hydra is imba in zvt. ppl just dont know it yet but its true.


imba in that is loses against pretty much every conceivable combo of terran


no it does not. just wait and see, its going to be the standart in zvt, at least for a while.


:S Based on what >?

Marine marauder crushes it ? Add in tanks it gets crushed more, add in medics even more.


who goes mmm in tvz? and no it does not get crushed by tanks, thats the point. i met a GM guy in a tourney once, who crushed me with this strat after i was already ahead quite a bit. i asked him about this strat and he told me, that he beats terrans like tlo, strelok and so on and ahas a zvt winrate of 90%. and i found that believable.

(though there also were some infestors/blings mixed in, thats to keep in mind).

You based your entire theory of roach hydra taking over the world from one guy who is better than you beating you.

Roach Hydra results in Terran being up in bases because Zerg cannot do a thing to deny it. Tanks. Marines in large numbers cannot be beaten by any non aoe unit in the game, and destroy roach/hydra with medivac support. Equal supplies of marines and roach/hydra would be a funny thing to watch. Roaches and hydras just overkill way too much to be considered good dps units. They can't defeat mass stalkers I don't see how they can defeat marines. Tanks. Also, how do you deal with drops? They are so slow. Also, tanks.


You should watch the GSL match (I think it was Thorzain vs GuineaPig), he rolls Zerg and goes Roach hydra and does pretty well against Throzain. While I don´t think its Imba like this guy says its definitively good enough composition.

Just saying in case you haven´t seen this composition in Action

Actually that Roach/Hydra was the only reason why Thorzain won that game. The other guy was a superior player and just shot himself in the foot by doing that stupidity.
Yaotzin
Profile Joined August 2010
South Africa4280 Posts
August 25 2011 16:17 GMT
#2835
On August 26 2011 01:14 -Archangel- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 01:11 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:08 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:06 Yaotzin wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:05 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:00 tnud wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:58 WArped wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:55 s3rp wrote:
On August 26 2011 00:44 Sqq wrote:
Just me who feels the HSM is way to strong now ? It can kill so much shit. 2 ravens 2 HSMs and a lot of units will just evaporate


The blast Radius is not all that big. The explosion looks huge bug the damage radius itsself isn't all that big.


It will just require a slight amount of micro to dodge it, no different to dodging storm, fungal etc. Imo this is the best change they have made this patch.

Not to be pecky, but you can't dodge fungal. It's instant and locks you there for the entire duration..

Yes, you can. With Blink most easily but even without it. I seen it multiple times. The trick is you don't do it once you see the infestor come, you have to do it before as in predict when the infestor is going to show up. The thing is, zergs do not select infestors to cast fungal with and often do not check if it is in range. They click fungal at the spot and there is a delay from that moment and the moment infestor with enough mana comes to range and casts it.

This is prediction, not dodging. Fungal is not dodgeable, just as feedback for example is not.

Feedback is not dodgeable because once HT gets into range he always hits that unit. Fungal hits the spot where those units might not still be. That is a dodge.

You have a curious definition of dodgeable. Seeker missile is dodgeable, fungal is instant cast and undodgeable. Moving before they cast it because their infestor is stuck in the back is not dodging, it's prediction - realising you're about to get fungalled and moving/spreading.

You can't dodge something that happens the instant you cast it, which fungal does.

By your definition Storm is not dodgable as well. Yes, you can run away from it once it is cast, but you consider dodging only if you dodge what is not instant.

EDIT: Half of dodging Storm is actually predicting. And half of casting good storm is also predicting.

The first "tick" of storm is indeed not dodgeable. The rest are. It's impossible to dodge an entire storm.
Gobe
Profile Joined November 2010
210 Posts
August 25 2011 16:17 GMT
#2836
With the ramp vision and the immortal buff, I can see this patch easily having a huge effect on PvP
ObserverSix2One
Profile Joined February 2011
Israel115 Posts
August 25 2011 16:18 GMT
#2837
On August 26 2011 01:16 NewtofDoom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2011 01:13 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:11 NewtofDoom wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:06 -Archangel- wrote:
On August 26 2011 01:03 NewtofDoom wrote:
BF hellions will still 2 shot probes and drones... but not SCVs

19+19 is how much? is it enough to 2 shot 40 hp probe/drone?

16 + 5 = 21...

Isn't it 8+6light+5blue?

I'm just going by liquipedia, but it says 6+10 to light.

liquipedia is wrong. I just checked in the game, 14 VS LIGHT
+5 is 19
I'm not a Vampire.
JDub
Profile Joined December 2010
United States976 Posts
August 25 2011 16:18 GMT
#2838
On August 26 2011 00:59 Get.Midikem wrote:
Well the bfh change is the best change ever. Now they wont own every scv and drone in no time. Imortal change will make roaches a unit never used. But nice patch. I like it.
+1 range to an immortal doesn't make that much of a difference against roaches. The immortals could hit the roaches anyway. Maybe they'll get another shot off in an engagement.
Revelatus
Profile Joined July 2011
United States183 Posts
August 25 2011 16:18 GMT
#2839
On August 26 2011 01:10 The_Sanjuro wrote:
All Terrans hate this patch. I wish the raven would be buffed a little bit more than just a faster seeker missile. I would of been happy with the energy being reduced down to 75 and do 75 damage instead of 100. All other races have an awesome spell caster(Infestor, HT) that do insane damage. If Raven seeker missle was 75 energy it would balance the spell casters out a bit. Ghost just arent cutting it anymore.

Ghosts not cutting it? You have a unit that can do INSTANT 100 AOE damage to an entire race compared to HT's 80 damage over time, which most of the time is partially dodged. And... You're whining about not having a good damage spell? And don't get me started on Snipe and the ability to cloak. And being tier 2 vs tier 3 (same with Infestor).
caяp diєм
obnoxkid
Profile Joined September 2010
United States23 Posts
August 25 2011 16:19 GMT
#2840
Can some explain what this means???

"If a unit provides power, that power is temporarily transferred to a player using Neural Parasite."
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